38 Brass trim length

[Dieselhorses]

Was looking for a dedicated area to post... If there is an area only for "brass" please correct me. Anyway trim to length for 38 is 1.149" and max 1.155". I have a lot of brass between 1.142" and 1.147". I vaguely remember reading "somewhere" on here that if I kept it consistent and didn't create any compressed loads, I should be okay in a revolver?

[tazman]

That .005 should not be a problem for a 38 special. The cartridge pressure is too low for that amount to cause a dangerous pressure spike. Particularly with standard loads.

[Chainsaw.]

As Taz stated, that slight change in length should bear no discernible difference in pressure on 38.
Momentarily you should see an avalanche of post capitulating about how there is no reason to trim straight wall pistol cartridges. I say trim em to get them all one consistent length, this will make for good consistent crimps which can in fact change pressures slightly (holds bullet in case a hair longer to allow more complete combustion, some say). Definitely trim if you are running mixed head stamps.

[ioon44]

I trim all my .38 spl to 1.145 with mixed head stamps. Once the brass is trimmed I reload it several times before I consider trimming again.

[Snow ninja]

I trim all my .38 spl to 1.145 with mixed head stamps. Once the brass is trimmed I reload it several times before I consider trimming again.Same, I usually run real light plinking loads so I may get 10 reloads before I look at trimming. About the time I notice my crimps being a little inconsistent, I'll trim again.

[RED BEAR]

I see this all the time a lot of new brass is below the trim length it will not matter at all. Any hornady leverevloution is a good bit shorter enough that you must readjust your dies but i still load it the same.

[Petrol & Powder]

OK, I'll start the avalanche of comments about trimming handgun brass :wink:

I have trimmed 38 Special brass but I can't remember when. Trimming 38 Special casings to a common length will result in a more uniform roll crimp but honestly the differences appear to be minor.

Rimmed straight wall revolver cartridges such as the 38 Special may occasionally need to be trimmed once to make them uniform but they really don't change much after that. I reload 38 Special casings until they split and I get a lot of cycles out of that brass before it must be discarded.

Unless I'm really trying to squeeze that last little bit of potential accuracy out of a batch of cartridges, I don't bother trimming 38 Special brass.

[Guesser]

I bought a Lee case gauge and shell holder for 38 Special in 1978. I have never used it. I have never found a 38 Special case that couldn't be used because of length, period!! Same with 45 ACP and 44 Special, 32 S&W Long. And the list goes on, been loading since 1956 for more than 140 cartridges. I trim bottle neck rifle cartridges when needed, done here!!

[country gent]

If you maintain the same loaded overall length then short brass really isn't an issue except for crimp if you apply one. Maintaining the same overall length on the loaded rounds puts the bullets base in the same place in the case whether brass is to long just right or a little to short. But shortening the overall length to the to short brass does intrude on capacity lowering it.

[Alan in Vermont]

I've taken to trimming all my 38 brass to 1.120". After checking a lot of my fired brass I found it necessary to go that short to get everything uniform. IMO, the effort involved is justified because every case flares, and crimps, the same.

[mdi]

I started reloading 38 Specials in 1969. I have 4 revolvers that shoot the 38 and I have developed some loads more accurate than I can hold, and I cannot remember ever measuring a case...

Case trimming may be necessary for an S&W Mod 52, but I don't own one...

[jonp]

I trim all my .38 spl to 1.145 with mixed head stamps. Once the brass is trimmed I reload it several times before I consider trimming again.

I trim all of mine to the shortest length of the batch to be trimmed. As long as the OAL doesn't get crazy short I don't think there is a problem with that little a difference under min.

[Dieselhorses]

Well a big thanks to all of you! I know this question was asked many times before and appreciate the answers. Now lets get a little more scientific about it. Since all space is the same between powder and bullet base due to a consistent COAL, but cases average length range from .001-.005", is it unethical to ask if anyone has attained a "feel" for a consistent flare/crimp without bottoming out the ram all the time? I know with flaring it may be practical but crimping may throw some people off especially if bullet has a crimp groove. If no groove then I guess it's more practical. BUT at the end of the day, as per loading 50 at a time, I sort to find consistency in length! Again many thanks!

[tazman]

My touch is not good enough to get a "feel" for a consistent crimp. I nearly always use boolits with a crimp groove. I set things up so I can bottom out the press and with the longest case, it will crimp to the top of the groove. That way with the shorter cases it still gets a good crimp in the groove.

[Petrol & Powder]

My touch is not good enough to get a "feel" for a consistent crimp. I nearly always use boolits with a crimp groove. I set things up so I can bottom out the press and with the longest case, it will crimp to the top of the groove. That way with the shorter cases it still gets a good crimp in the groove.

Not a bad approach.

[tazman]

I crimp in a separate step. When seating the boolit, I check the depth so it comes out where I want it in the groove, then crimp with the next step.
Many of the boolits I use have generous crimp grooves. It makes this part easier.
I could use a taper crimp and avoid the whole issue, but prefer the roll crimp for 38 special/357 mag. I get more consistent results this way.

[Dieselhorses]

I crimp in a separate step. When seating the boolit, I check the depth so it comes out where I want it in the groove, then crimp with the next step.
Many of the boolits I use have generous crimp grooves. It makes this part easier.
I could use a taper crimp and avoid the whole issue, but prefer the roll crimp for 38 special/357 mag. I get more consistent results this way.

Yea that wasn’t a logical approach i mentioned about having a “feel”. I guess running heavy equipment for a few years taught me that “feel”. Taz I also crimp in a separate step as a matter of preference, so now I know I don’t have to throw away the short ones!


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[dverna]

I have never trimmed a .38 case....that is for sure.

I may have measured a few....but not sure.

[country gent]

There was a set up to use a torque wrench on place of the press handle to crimp to a set ft lbs or inch lbs instead of the cam over or stop.

[tazman]

There was a set up to use a torque wrench on place of the press handle to crimp to a set ft lbs or inch lbs instead of the cam over or stop.

I think it was 44man who posted about that and some pictures. I don't believe he is on this site any more.

[lightload]

I have segregated 38 cases with a case gauge by kicking out those too short or too long and then took this batch of approximately similar length cases to make special purpose ammo which I ended up shooting beer cans with. Now if it doesn't feel right when I crimp it, I set that round aside to shoot beer cans with before using more precisely loaded ammo for the same purpose. But in a serious vein, I haven't found that for my purposes trimming .38 Spl brass makes any difference.

[JBinMN]

One might wonder, or even ask...

Why does SAAMI put a minimum length on straight wall rimmed cartridges like the 38 Sp. at all, if it doesn't matter?

Isn't there a good reason for it?

Just a thought... or, two...
;)

[uscra112]

Just for fun, I opened my Quickload file for a target load I've used in my Colt 9" Officers Model. This is an extremely accurate revolver, and at one time I got very anal about loading for it. This load is 148 grain HBWC, trim length all brass is 1.145, powder charge 2.5 Bullseye, seating depth .462", roll crimp. Calculated pressure 7227 psi. Then changed seating depth by .005" to length .457", equivalent to using longer brass, with all other parameters the same. Pressure 7158 psi. Difference 69 psi. That's less than the pressure variance from a powder charge difference of .05 grains. Who loads .38 with powder weight precision of .05 grains? Not me. I had no way to measure bullet pull variance due to brass temper variation, but I'd still bet it was also a lot greater than 69 psi. I could see it on the targets.

Conclusion is obvious. Fuggeddabowdit.

[uscra112]

One might wonder, or even ask...

Why does SAAMI put a minimum length on straight wall rimmed cartridges like the 38 Sp. at all, if it doesn't matter?


Because nature abhors a blank field in a data entry form?

[JBinMN]

because nature abhors a blank field in a data entry form?

lol
;)

[Petrol & Powder]

Just for fun, I opened my Quickload file for a target load I've used in my Colt 9" Officers Model. This is an extremely accurate revolver, and at one time I got very anal about loading for it. This load is 148 grain HBWC, trim length all brass is 1.145, powder charge 2.5 Bullseye, seating depth .462", roll crimp. Calculated pressure 7227 psi. Then changed seating depth by .005" to length .457", equivalent to using longer brass, with all other parameters the same. Pressure 7158 psi. Difference 69 psi. That's less than the pressure variance from a powder charge difference of .05 grains. Who loads .38 with powder weight precision of .05 grains? Not me. I had no way to measure bullet pull variance due to brass temper variation, but I'd still bet it was also a lot greater than 69 psi. I could see it on the targets.

Conclusion is obvious. Fuggeddabowdit.

That pretty much sums up my experience. I have on rare occasions in the past carefully assembled cartridges in an attempt to squeeze that last little bit of accuracy out of the 38 Special round. In the end I came to the same conclusion.
Forgetaboutit

[mdi]

I crimp much like tazman. I just developed my method long ago, just seemed logical. I crimp in a separate step, and I know many don't, they seat and crimp in one operation, but for me, I prefer two steps (for many years I used a turret and now I use a Co-Ax so swapping dies, twisting a turret is not more then a few seconds). My presses don't "cam over" so it's quite easy to set depths against a dead stop...

[Tim357]

As Taz stated, that slight change in length should bear no discernible difference in pressure on 38.
Momentarily you should see an avalanche of post capitulating about how there is no reason to trim straight wall pistol cartridges. I say trim em to get them all one consistent length, this will make for good consistent crimps which can in fact change pressures slightly (holds bullet in case a hair longer to allow more complete combustion, some say). Definitely trim if you are running mixed head stamps.
Yep. What he said.

[Walks]

When I shot Max-Power .38-44, .357Mag, .44Mag and Especially. 454 Casull, I would keep cases trimmed. Because they did grow.
I crimped and seated at the same time, almost always in a Keith Type crimp groove.

Later on Taper Crimp be came available. Made trimming cases became a bit less important. Accuracy did not appear to suffer.

These days cases seem to come out of the factories at less then minimum length all the time these days.

The only cases I have to trim are G.I. 5.56, ALL once fired brass is too long.

And those new brass cases I bought for .38-44 back in the mid 1970's needed to be trimmed, right out of the box.

They seem to be all lengths these days. I've had new REM 44-40 that are longer then max length. And WIN .44spl that were 1.135, thats .015 shorter then MIN.

I guess it doesn't seem to matter to the manufacturers anymore.
Like Starline doesn't anneal their cases as the last manufacturing step to make them cheaper.

[Taterhead]

I have never trimmed a 38 special case. Nothing I load gets more than a modest crimp, so case length and variations in thickness don't matter -- that much. I don't load precision 38 ammo, so others will come to different conclusions about process.