T/C Maxi-Ball Vs. Lee R.E.A.L. HELP!!

[mikenbarb]

I am wondering if anyone has shot the two different boolits in a .50cal? I am looking to purchase a mold to start casting my BP boolits and having a tough choice between a Maxi-Ball or the Lee R.E.A.L. mold. I borrowed a friends Maxi-Ball mold to cast a bunch to have but I want to purchase one of my own and the funds arent there to purchase them both. Can anyone tell me how the Lee boolit performs at ranges over 100 yds. I already have shot maxi-Balls and they do well but im leaning towards the Lee mold in the heavier boolit style. I am hunting in areas where my shots are limited to around 100-150yds so im not looking to do any long range shooting. I am currently shooting 100gr. of Pyrodex Select in a Traditions Evolution in .50 caliber with a 3-9x40 Nikon and its averaging 5" @ 150yds. with the Maxi-Balls. I know this is acceptable for where im hunting but im used to shooting sub-moa with my rifles so this is all new to me and any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance, Mike.

[Maven]

Mike B., The results you get with T/C Maxi-Balls v. Lee REAL's may depend on (in no particular order) the powder charge & granulation, e.g., FFg/Pyro. RS/Select v. FFFg/Pyro. P v. pellets v. loose powder; twist rate of bbl.; how well the conical fits your bore; bearing length of the conical; and the type of primer you're using, e.g., #209 Shotgun v. #209 BP v. #11 percussion caps; and even the type of lube used.

That being said, let me say I've had excellent results with the .50cal. Maxi-Balls with both Pyro. RS and Goex FFg regardless of whether I used a Win. #209 primer (not BP) or CCI #11 cap, but not the Lee REAL's (I have both weights). I think the comparatively poor performance of the Lee's is due to their rather loose fit in my 1:28 Knight Bighorn's bbl. and their short bearing length, particularly the lighter one. You may want to experiment with different powder charges, say 80grs., 90grs. and 100grs. and even different powders, e.g. FFg v. Pyro. RS v. Pyro. Select as well. Btw, I've also had occasion to try the Maxi-Balls that I cast from a borrowed Lyman mold and found them to perform identically to the T/C's even though they were heavier and of a larger diameter than the T/C's (substantially harder to push down bore).

If you cast your own conicals, make sure the bases are absolutely perfect: Keep only those with perfect bases. Also, if you can obtain a 1/2" arch punch, you can cut disks from a milk carton, legal pad backing, shirt cardboard, etc. and use them as an overpowder wad to squeeze the last bit of accuracy out of the projectile. As for lubes, I've got no complaints (except cost) about
T/C Bore Butter or Ox-Yoke Wonder Lube, but some prefer Crisco (white) and a few others.

Hope this helps!

[mikenbarb]

Thanks Maven and yes, It helped. Im using bore butter with them and the barrel is a 1/28 trist. What would the reason be for a overpowder wad with a Maxi-Ball? I have some nitro cards that I could make a proper punch for if its an improvement in accuracy. And the bases on the boolits I use are all perfect and if not they go back in the pot to try again. I have also tried a couple different powders because I dont like the pellet thing and the Pyrodex Select is working the best in my smokepole so far.

[Blammer]

I have both the Lee REAL bullet and the T/C maxi Hunter mould.

I much prefer the T/C maxi hunter bullet to the lee real one.

On the Lee real bullet there is no way to have the bullet "hold" the lube prior to just loading it.

It gets messy when you have to lube the bullet and then load it right away, not something I want to do when hunting.

The Lee bullets are accurate and fun to shoot but I much prefer the Maxi's across the board.

As far at the TC maxi's go I cast em and they came out at 333gr from the purest lead I could obtain. (probably not that pure but it was soft and good.)

I use 80 gr of FFg in my 50 cal Lyman Great plains rifle and my T/C renegade (also 50 cal). I have not had any issues with having to have an over powder wad or anything on it to improve accuracy.

I shot a nice 9pt buck at about 50-60 yds with the Maxi hunter, it was a facing shot and the bullet penetrated 36" and landed in the rear ham of the deer. I was pleased!
The maxi hunter is flat based, and a small hollow point, it mushroomed to about .60 dia and only lost about 10gr of wt.

I shoot peep sights on both of my BP guns.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/DSCN6993.jpg

[Blammer]

I have two TC maxi hunter bullet mould and each cast a bullet a bit differently than the other. They are the ones in the middle and on the right.

The left one is a Lee REAL bullet at 250gr.

My lee REAL bullet does just what is says it's suppose to, it slightly engraves on loading.

[Maven]

Mike B., The cardstock disk may prevent the Maxi's and REAL's bases from being "deformed" by heavy powder charges. Such wads seem to improve accuracy by a small amount. Btw, many have got great accuracy with REAL's as have I in a .45cal. T/C Hawken, but my present rifle doesn't shoot them all that well. In fact, I'm going to list them in the Swapping & Selling room shortly.

Blammer, I'd been looking for a used TC Maxi-Hunter mold until recently. Having no luck on FU-Bay, I decided to purchase 20 from our local way overpriced Gander Mtn. While they grouped better than the 320gr. REAL's, they weren't nearly as accurate as my home cast T/C or Lyman Maxi-Balls.

[Blammer]

I too have better accuracy with my maxi hunters vs the 'store bought' maxi hunters.

I think lube may have something to do with it. :)

[boommer]

Why not try the lyman plains slug #508656 395 GRS I get real good groups at 100 yd 90 grs swiss 1.5 out my1-32 twist great plains rifle 1485 fps. I never tried the maxi but the real 320 gr never gave me good results in the cap or my inline. The cards use them on BPCR but never tried em on front stuffers always thought you have to tack them too the base with lube and they they stick to the base with hot lube create suction and go for a ride sometimes or not witch would create accuracy problems. The one thing I would like to try is to paper patch the slug and twist the bottom but were is the time? ain't got it ! THE plains bullet likes velocity doe's not like lite loads accuracy falls off at 1300fps in mine at muzzle for me.

[mikenbarb]

Got the Lee molds from Maven and gonna give the Lee REAL's a try. Im sure ones gotta shoot well in my smokepole. Thanks everyone and I will let you all know how they do.

[Odinbreaker]

I have a Lee 320 gr in 50 cal and a 54 cal Maxi both work well. I like liquid allox I than roll them in motor mica or moly lube powder. This really reduces leading. 80 gr App with 50 cal 100 with 54.

[idahoron]

mikenbarb,
I have a 320 gr 50 cal Lee REAL mould. I have been shooting them in a Green Mountain 1-28 Stainless steel barrel. The 50 and 75 yard groups are good. BUT the 100 yard and farther groups are not good at all like 3" or so at 100 yards. I use a over powder wad and that helps but my best bullet so far is a Lee 500 S&W bullet, C-501-440-RF.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/458_gr_501-1.jpg
I paper patch this bullet and size to .501 they are bad a$$ accurate out to 150 yards and if I do my part out to 200 yards.
Here is a 100 yard target.
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/500SW3-22-08small-1.jpg

[boommer]

Idahoron thats a gas check bullet isn't it? I would think the gas check would start the slug with p/p alot easier than a flat base. DO you use a card on those? Next ? are you lubeing them when you size them or are just lubing the paper? I would like to try 440gr slugs in my lyman 1-32 bigger flat face slug the bigger the slap!

[mr mom]

blammer : those maxi hunters are nice looking bullets !!! where did you find a mold????

maven: im getting ready to make a few of the .50 cal. maxi hunters when i get my pot empty.. if you would like a few ill send you some..

mikenbarb: im getting closer to it ...

[725]

Mike,
I'm with most of the above. Maxi-balls are better for me than REAL's or Maxi-hunters. Once in awhile, I use a felt lubed wad (Wonder-Wad) under the boolit. In some it helps and in others it's of no effect. I will be trying a card over powder one of these days as so many have seemed to have good results. Just one of those things where you have to shoot alot to see what works for you.
725

[Maven]

mr mom, Thanks for your generous offer, which I must decline since my rifle tolerates them, but shoots the Maxi-Balls and patched round balls a whole lot better. Thanks again for thinking of me!

[idahoron]

Idahoron thats a gas check bullet isn't it? I would think the gas check would start the slug with p/p alot easier than a flat base. DO you use a card on those? Next ? are you lubeing them when you size them or are just lubing the paper? I would like to try 440gr slugs in my lyman 1-32 bigger flat face slug the bigger the slap!


Yes that bullet is a gas check bullet. The bullet is .501 so I don't size the slug it's self. I wrap the paper on dry and lightly lube with Hornady Great Plains lube. I size after I lube with a LEE .501 sizer. The bullets go down with some resistance so they won't back off the charge. I use a over powder wad that I make my self out of wool felt. I lightly lube them with hornady lube. I have not used a card but I am sure that would work too. The weight is wrong on them with soft lead. If you pour them out of pure lead they will weigh 456 or so grains.
The thing I like about this load is I can shoot up to 6 times without cleaning before accuracy falls off. This bullet also has a high BC of 296. I use 80 gr of Pyrodex P. The speed on that load is 1310 FPS, and this load carries over 1000 foot pounds of energy out to 300 yards. I have not shot a big game animal with this load yet but I am with you. That big flat nose looks wicked. Ron

[idahoron]

I forgot to add. With the bullet wrapped in paper I get NO lead fouling. Ron

[Maven]

All, If you're interested in making your own felt wads, take a look at this site:

www.durofelt.com

[Blammer]

The mould on the far right is a mould I ordered directly from T/C Arms. At the time they said it was the last one in stock. This one has a fairly deep HP, and I like it.

The one in the middle I found online a while back. This one has a longer nose as you see and a shallow HP.

[mr mom]

blammer : did you ever find a .54 maxi hunter mold????

[Blammer]

no I did not.

but have stopped looking as I have sabots that work splendidly in my 54 cal BP gun.

[boommer]

THANKS RON for that info I'm going to order up that mould and get some paper and give it a shot . I've gotten good accuracy out the plains 395 gr slug, but that slug looks like bigger medicine for are whitetails here. I hunt heavy dense thorny areas and want to anchor them quick, long shot for me is 50 yards.

[mikenbarb]

I finally got all the molds I wanted(Thanks Maven) :-Dand now im the proud owner of the following,
Lee R.E.A.L. .50cal 250gr.
Lee R.E.A.L. .50cal 320gr.
T/C Maxi-Ball .50cal 350gr. but getting 360gr. w/ WW lead.
And a Lee 904447 RB mold.
Im gonna cast a bunch up and give them all a try and will let you all know what works best with my smokepole. Im also going to try a card over to see what they do. I got the RB because it was cheap and figured it would be fun to shoot my steel targets with(Their 3/4" thick). I would also like to thank everyone for their help and advice. Mike B.

[mooman76]

I have only shot the Lee REALs and Minies and they usually shoot well with the right barrel twist, that is as long as they are not pushed too hard.

[mikenbarb]

I am going to be shooting them out of a Traditions Evolution 26" barrel with a 1-28" twist.

[idahoron]

If you make your conicals out of wheel weight you are going to have a hard time getting them down the barrel. The Lee REAL's might not go down at all, be very carefull I have been there done that. Ron

[jack19512]

If you make your conicals out of wheel weight you are going to have a hard time getting them down the barrel. The Lee REAL's might not go down at all, be very carefull I have been there done that. Ron







That's not exactly 100% true. Until I got my hands on some soft lead I tried straight wheel weights for my muzzle loader. I never had any trouble at all loading them, they just were not accurate enough for me.

[idahoron]

Well let me put it this way. A lee REAL is .517 and the bore is probably some where between .500 and .504 and since hard lead does not shrink and is not "soft" I will say it will be very tough getting them down. Now when I am talking Wheel weights I am talking the clip on not the stick on. Were you making RB's? You can get by with hard lead for RB's. Ron

[mooman76]

I did Lee REALs in WWs and got them down the barrel without a problem. I didn't care for it too much because my palm would get sore after awhile from beating them down the barrel. At the time I had no soft lead to use. They shot pretty good too.

[jack19512]

Now when I am talking Wheel weights I am talking the clip on not the stick on. Were you making RB's? You can get by with hard lead for RB's. Ron






I was using clip on wheel weights and no I was not making RB's. I was using the Lee .500-360 gr. mold.

[idahoron]

Jack, in your case I can see why you didn't have a problem with getting them down. Your bullets were probably under bore size. That is probably one of the reasons they were not accurate. When I was using WW's for conicals I had to clean after each shot to get any accuracy at all. I do have one bullet that my rifle loves made out of WW's but it is so heavy that I don't use that bullet much.
Mooman, you are right the REAL's will shoot pretty good with the right twist and don't push them too hard.
A lot of guys do it to get a more powerful hunting load. REAL's don't like heavy charges. Even with a over powder wad. When I was shooting them I was getting good groups out to 75 yards but the 100 yard groups would open up to about 4" I never shot them past that and I went looking for a better bullet, which I found. Ron

[Maven]

idahoron is correct about REALs' accuracy and twist rate. E.g., in my T/C Hawken's 28" bbl. with a 1:48" twist, they performed identically to T/C Maxi-Balls and patched .440" RB's, usually 5 touching @ 50 yds. with 70grs. & 80grs. Pyro. RS if I did everything right. Alas, the .50cal. REAL's weren't as accurate as T/C Maxi-'s or .490" RB's in my 26", 1:28" twist bbl. using either Pyro. RS or GOEX FFg at the same distance.

[jack19512]

Jack, in your case I can see why you didn't have a problem with getting them down. Your bullets were probably under bore size. That is probably one of the reasons they were not accurate.







Could be, to be honest about it I just don't know enough to say myself but I was told the wheelweights were just to hard to seal the bore when shot. Theres a word for this but I just can't think of it right now.

I tried shooting the straight wheelweight boolits sized and not sized but it didn't seem to make a difference as far as accuracy goes. The accuracy wasn't terrible but was a long way from being great.

The boolits loaded about like the sabot's I was shooting, not real easy but not real hard. Since finding some pure lead and using the same mold the boolits shoot real good but I can only get around 3 shots before accuracy starts to fall off. But I don't think I would need 3 shots for deer hunting.