Stevens 44 action in 38-55 loads?

[arlon]

I have a Stevens 52 built on a wide 44 action. Curious what others with a 44 action in 38-55 might be loading it with (other than BP)?

[pietro]

.

The only strong Stevens single shot rifle was the falling block Model 44-1/2 - ALL other Stevens had swinging block actions (the breechblock pivot point is ahead of the rear end of the barrel) - which swinging blocks were designed for relatively low pressure ( compared to smokeless ) black powder loads.

I would be VERY leery of shooting any smokeless loads that were not very light loads.

.

[skeettx]

25 grain of 3031 and .382 gas check 275 grain NEI boolit
or
15.5 grain of 4759 same bullet
or
19 grains of 4198 same bullet

[richhodg66]

The two old Lyman manuals I have list very light loads for the .38-55, I don't think there's anything that gets above about 1100 FPS.

My rifle is built on an old waffle top Marlin, and Marlin chambered that same action in .375 Winchester, so pretty sure I could juice those loads up a good bit if I wanted to. For that 44 action, I think I'd stick to that old Lyman data.

[Reg]

No, not on the 44 actions. The above smokeless loads will either open the action up completely or at the least stretch the heck out of it.
The 44's lock up with a single small link. If you have a 44 1/2 then the above would be just fine.

[MT Chambers]

The two old Lyman manuals I have list very light loads for the .38-55, I don't think there's anything that gets above about 100 FPS.

My rifle is built on an old waffle top Marlin, and Marlin chambered that same action in .375 Winchester, so pretty sure I could juice those loads up a good bit if I wanted to. For that 44 action, I think I'd stick to that old Lyman data.

I wouldn't go as low as 100 fps. but I would use BP, even duplex loads, but you need the Bp to keep pressures way down.

[marlinman93]

Others have already said what I'd say about a 44 in .38-55 with their warnings. I would probably shoot it also, but I'd be darn sure to keep loads down to 245-255 gr. bullets, and either BP, or smokeless with levels down near BP pressures.
A 52 is a wonderful old Stevens, and it would be a shame to harm such a neat gun.

[richhodg66]

I wouldn't go as low as 100 fps. but I would use BP, even duplex loads, but you need the Bp to keep pressures way down.

Sorry, that was supposed to say 1100, I fixed it now.

[Gunlaker]

I think that Stevens 44 would be pretty easy to harm with smokeless. The 44 is not a very strong action at all and I think that most consider it an error that Stevens made them in .32-40 and .38-55. If it's the rifle I saw pictures of on the ASSRA forum then I'd be super careful with that beautiful piece of history.

Chris.

[KCSO]

I don't recommend the 44 action for 32-40 or 38-55 with anything more than black powder. These are not strong actions and they will shoot loose in no time even with modern hinge pins. Keep the loads mild.

[gnoahhh]

Ditto what everybody else said. No way would I shoot smokeless loads in that thing, and I would think twice about BP loads too. Don't forget that the surface area of a .38-55/.32-40 case head is a lot bigger than a truly small capacity case like a .22LR or .25 RF, or even a .25-20 single shot and as such exerts a LOT more force on the breech block even given equal pressures as smaller cases.

My old man had a cherry 44 factory chambered in .38-40 and it got its eye teeth loosened by merely firing a few boxes of factory ammo. Certainly not one of Stevens' better ideas.

[marlinman93]

There is a plus to Arlon's 52 on the 44 frame. It is a later action with the more rounded internal 90 degree corner, unlike the earlier 44 frame with a more squared internal corner. Still the same internal action and pins, but with the later modified receiver shape it is stronger than the early sharp 90 degree corner action.

[oldred]

I'm not personally all that familiar with the Stevens 44 action but my thoughts on any BP action that can take only light smokeless loads is that it could be dangerous even if the smokeless load won't normally exceed BP pressures. The reason I think this is that with these old BP actions there is zero room for error, even an otherwise minor error when using smokeless. I know that as long as a person is really careful then pressures should be safe enough but still it happens all the time, some little minor thing that is no problem at all in a modern action with a comfortable safety margin can be anything but minor with a weak action designed for BP. Maybe I am being overly cautious but the fact remains that even so-called BP equivalent smokeless loads can be on the ragged edge with no room for ANY error no matter how minor it might seem.

Just my thoughts on most original BP actions in general, not saying smokeless should never ever be used with any of them but still the lack of that safety margin is something to maybe consider even if a given smokeless load is supposed to be safe.

[uscra112]

No, not on the 44 actions. The above smokeless loads will either open the action up completely or at the least stretch the heck out of it.
The 44's lock up with a single small link. If you have a 44 1/2 then the above would be just fine.

What you don't know is that Arlon's rifle is a Model 52 with the lug on the hammer that supports the breechblock. This takes almost all of the stress off the link. But nonetheless it should not be loaded past about 15,000 psi, which is the ballpark that all of the loads skeettx posted fit in. Even so I hope he doesn't shoot his rifle much. It has a fantastic history behind it.

BTW heavy overloads in a 44 do not "open the action up completely" I'm ashamed to admit that I once fired a double charge in one of mine (a .25-20) that calculated out to 80,000 psi. Had to drive the wrecked case out with a cleaning rod. Nothing else was damaged, except that the headspace opened up about a thou. Not suggesting that it's strong enough for even the Hornet as a daily shooter, but it's not the hand grenade that some people have convinced themselves that it is.

[marlinman93]

In my younger days I owned a Stevens 44 in .44-40 that was factory original. Being young, and not being a hand loader yet, I simply went out and bought factory .44-40 ammo, and most of it was jacketed soft points. I shot the gun for years, until I started reloading. Then I kept seeing data and read reports of these Stevens 44's in .44-40 and other larger base diameter smokeless offerings shooting loose. Mine still shot great, but I switched to pretty mild smokeless loads that were only about 750-800 fps, with cast lead.
I eventually sold the gun to a friend, but it was still as tight as any Stevens I've ever seen.
Anyone who loads smokeless can overload any gun. And the faster powders that take smaller charges can be double or even triple charged if you're careless. A fair number of guns have been blown up, and they weren't all BP era guns. One should be very careful regardless of the gun you're loading ammo for. But we all know that, and hopefully load with as much care as possible.

[arlon]

No, not on the 44 actions. The above smokeless loads will either open the action up completely or at the least stretch the heck out of it.
The 44's lock up with a single small link. If you have a 44 1/2 then the above would be just fine.

I've shot the 52 a lot with 19gr of 4198 (only load I've used in it). It is as tight as the day I got it. It IS a wide 44 and has a few other factory mods so it might be slightly more robust than the other 44 I have.

I guess the 52 is kind of like a 44 1/4. I know it's slightly stronger than the plain 44 but not nearly as strong as the 44 1/2.
I also have a regular 44 in 38/55 that is loose as a goose and I will not even shoot that one. My dad killed his first deer and a lot more with it but I'll leave it in the back of the safe where it belongs.

[Chev. William]

Arlon,
When you say "Loose As A Goose", have you 'actually Measured its 'Head Space'?
Chev. William

[Bent Ramrod]

You can use a feeler gauge, but if you grasp the droopy lever tightly and can see any daylight between the block and breech face when you pull the block back with your other hand, the linkage needs to be rebuilt.

There’s an “intermediate stage” where the lever will droop with the chamber empty, but will be fairly tight with a cartridge inserted. Then (if you don’t have the keyed block and lever screws) it will be tight when they are turned in or out slightly and loose when in their customary position.

Continued firing past this point will produce cases stretched at the base and, ultimately, head separations.

I shoot my 44 in .32-40 and my 107 in .32-35 with black powder duplex loads only, following the usual precautions. They haven’t loosened up (yet).

[arlon]

Arlon,
When you say "Loose As A Goose", have you 'actually Measured its 'Head Space'?
Chev. William

No, I have not messed with it at all. I don't plan to ever shoot it so it never really mattered much to me.

[uscra112]

You can use a feeler gauge, but if you grasp the droopy lever tightly and can see any daylight between the block and breech face when you pull the block back with your other hand, the linkage needs to be rebuilt.

There’s an “intermediate stage” where the lever will droop with the chamber empty, but will be fairly tight with a cartridge inserted. Then (if you don’t have the keyed block and lever screws) it will be tight when they are turned in or out slightly and loose when in their customary position.


This is an appropriate time and place to point out that on a properly set up 44, the headspace is NOT determined by the breech-block to barrel face fit. That should be an interference fit of .002" to .005". In other words the breechblock is clamped against the barrel face by the toggle, with the shoulders at the back in firm contact with the ledges in the frame. It's useful to think of the breechblock as being a wedge inserted between the frame ledges and the barrel face.

Headspace is controlled only by the depth of the rim recess.

Obviously, if a 44 is showing any daylight at all between breechblock and barrel face, it's already too loose to keep shooting, which sadly is about 50% of those that have fallen into my hands. Proper setup is a bit fussy and takes time, which it appears that Stevens began to ignore as time went on, to their shame.

Proper setup first tightens up the toggle pins and link. Then the breeckblock pivot must be seen to have enough clearance to allow the breechblock to move rearward far enough for the shoulders to bear. (This is counterintuitive but it's a fact.!) Only then do you establish whether the breechblock is being properly clamped. If it's not, the barrel must be set back and the barrel face trimmed to get the correct interference fit. Lastly the chamber is deepened as necessary to set the rim recess depth.

[Chill Wills]

Thank you! That is a very clear explanation.
That knowledge will also help in evaluating a possible purchase.