Is it a national law that cast bullets cannot be used in indoor facilities?

[chutestrate]

Took my nephews to new indoor range in Richmond, Va - Winding Brook Indoor range. Beautiful facility, but was told I couldn't use my cast reloads. It wasn't just the rule at that facility, but staff said it was all indoor ranges. It's been a while since I was at a different range, but I smelled b.s. but I didn't make an issue of it. I was there to have fun with my nephews.

[Old colt]

Im going to call bull on a national rule. I shoot cast at my indoor range almost 100% of the time.

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[Land Owner]

Not so much cast bullets but your reloads as they SELL factory ammo to augment the cost of range operation. It is in their profit structure to preclude reloads. Plus, they accuse reloaders of faulty ammo production, which could lead to injury and increased insurance/costs for operating the range. Their attorneys are in the mix.

[Shopdog]

Quick story....

Am visiting one of my sons in Raleigh NC.... he takes me to a newish indoor range.I took a 70's Gold cup and a #14 Smith....both with tackdriver CB loads.

Just to be polite,I ask the RO if cast is cool with them. The late 30 sumthin woman says,she'll have to ask? So she goes up to the big cheese RO and asks him if armor piercing ammo is ok.....

This guy comes over and asks me what the heck? I'm like..... huh?

Long story short,cast was fine by them but no armor piercing. But how the question got screwed up is the interesting part. Seems a little "power" and a pea sized brain got their wires crossed. I ended up liking the head honcho,and got into the finer points of indoor ranges(we have one) vent systems and backstops. He just rolled his eyes on the females comments.

[Sig556r]

My local indoor range checks ammo using magnets to avoid steel/armor-piercing bullets breaching their backstop. Other than that, all's well. Always end up with more brass than I brought...nice facility, rapid fire allowed, shoot from holster (once qualified), 50% off for CHL holders, senior discounts...

[GhostHawk]

My indoor range does not sell ammo, no counters lined with glass putting it on display.

Now if you happen to have a need for a box of 9mm, chances are someone can take care of you.

Ohhh and my range does not say a thing about my cast bullet reloads.

[Hickory]

I've been thinking about putting in a small window in my loading room so that I can shoot "indoors" in the winter, and maybe to shoot out of it for testing reloads at anytime.
I would be able to shoot out to 200 yards.

[stubert]

A lot of indoor ranges prohibit cast because of concern about lead in the air.

[ShooterAZ]

Our local indoor range does not prohibit the use of cast boolits, or people's own handloads. They do prohibit steel jacketed/penetrating ammo. They don't check it all, but if it starts sparking downrange they will shut it down. I can see some ranges not allowing CB due to "lead in the air" concerns though. Our range is new, and has a supposedly state of the art filtration system. Each range can set their own rules.

[Bookworm]

The only time I have ever shot at an indoor range, the guy at the counter asked what ammo I was going to use.
I told him I would use my reloads.
He asked to see them, waved a magnet over the 2 containers of cast reloads (44 special and 9mm) and waved me on.

Once the RSO inside saw me picking up my brass, he started sweeping it all towards me.

I left heavily loaded with brass.

[Guesser]

The new indoor range that I belong to does not allow any lead bullets, cast, swaged, coated hand cast or factory loads. It lets some shooters out of the game because older rounds such as 32 S&W, 32-20, are only loaded factory with soft lead bullet. They do allow hand loaded jacketed and plated however, they would really like to disallow hand loaded ammunition. Such is the world today with too many lawyers with not enough to do.

[Green Frog]

It would appear that each range, whether indoor or out, has its own rules and if commercial, it’s own business model. Some is based on laws, some on safety needs specific to the facility, some on the profit motive, and some on magic ju ju passed on through the ages. Change comes slowly if at all, but is more like to creep toward more restriction, but that’s just the way it goes. :(

A dear friend of mine, now deceased, had a window in his shop that opened out into a wire and canvas tunnel 100 yds long to a lighted target and berm. He allowed any rifle you could shoot from the bench on that range, then you could go a couple of hundred yards through the woods to his covered 200 yd, 4 firing point range. I sure miss those opportunities to go commune with Charlie Dell and his inspirational home!

Froggie

[kungfustyle]

Indoor ranges is all about policy, mostly due to insurance vs reloads. The bull flag needs to be thrown on lead/cast boolits vs jacketed. When the primer is struck there is lead laden gas released. The base of a good amount of jacketed bullets are lead. I know people that test indoor ranges and some won't shoot on them because of bad air quality. If its stuffy at the indoor range go shoot somewhere else. You'll get less lead exposure smelting wheel weights. Modern ranges with good circulation your good to go.

[Wheelguns 1961]

Im going to call bull on a national rule. I shoot cast at my indoor range almost 100% of the time.

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Same here. No law

[KenH]

At a local range here in the basement of a gun store they only allow lead free ammo that they sell. They had to shut the range down for a while due to lead in the air concerns. The decision was to allow ONLY lead free ammo so they could open range again. To assure ONLY lead free ammo, they require ammo to be purchased from them - ain't cheap!

I suspect the cost of installing a good air filtration system that would allow lead bullets was a bit more than the small store could afford, hence the lead free ammo and no "high dollar" air filtration system required.

[bedbugbilly]

Maybe this is a new "Republik of Virginia" law?

[5Shot]

So...what does a guy with a 22 Rimfire do?

[mdi]

I too don't believe there is a "law", national or local. I think the EPA or a state equivalent can inspect a facility and require ventilation, but no actual law on the books. Gun counter clerk's bull poop...

[toallmy]

How about Polymer jacket ?

[lightman]

That sounds like a range rule not a federal law. The owners of the range can make any rule that they want to make. Its up to us if we can live with them or not. Personally, not being able to pick up my own brass, shoot my reloads or shoot cast would be a deal breaker for me.

[Tom W.]

The indoor range that I go to occasionally will allow any handgun that you bring that is not a rifle round or metal piercing which excludes a lot of Encore shooters and BFR revolvers. .22 and 17 rimfire rifles are ok, as well as shotguns.
If you have a desire to rent one of their handguns you must buy ammo from them.
All I've ever fired there was cast. They finally got the exhaust system working better, so it's not nearly as stuffy as it was. Now if they'd improve the lighting......
And there's no problem collecting orphaned brass if the person that fired it doesn't want it. I keep a cheap nylon backpack in my ammo bag along with a small dustpan and have collected a LOT of brass.....

[dragon813gt]

There is no national law. Indoor ranges give themselves a bad name when they make stuff up. They can have whatever rules they want. But don’t lie and say it’s a federal law.

If a range was truly worried about lead exposure they would only allow total metal jacket bullets and NT primers. A lot of lead exposure comes from the priming compound. And so does an exposed lead base on a FMJ bullet. Lack of consistency in their policies shows their true intentions.

When it comes to ventilation systems the upfront costs are a little high. But that’s not why ranges won’t put the best ones in. It’s the maintenance costs. When you tell someone they have to replace filters weekly, I’m making this up, instead of monthly all they see is wasted money. The maintenance schedule on the best systems is a lot more intensive. Not to mention that you’re pulling the space into a negative which draws out the conditioning. So you have to pay more to heat/cool the space. Money is the driving factor but it’s from several different areas.

[country gent]

We looked into a sprayer system for in front of the back stop on one indoor range. A water mix mist to contain lead dust from the back stop there. A simple filtered system that recirculated the water mix. There is a lot that goes into designing a indoor range. Ventilation should be mostly down range with vents behind shooters, this creates a draw flow pulling every thing down range away from shooters. The water mist on steel plate back stops contains bullet dust whether lead jackets or polymer or fragmented sintered. Lighting needs to be brighter down range than the firing line. This improves clarity and focus. The lower light level allows pupils to dilate more then looking into the brighter target area vision is clearer. A solid floor for secure footing.
I have head some indoor ranges have went to all "green ammo" only here do to lead concerns. Its their range and their rules.
As stated above lead contamination also comes from primers along with some other compounds. In burnt powder, powder residues, primer residues, leads all contribute to the "dust" in indoor ranges

[robg]

If I couldn't shoot my hand loads I wouldn't shoot there .

[Conditor22]

I've seen that it's not so much not allowing cast boolits, it's about the lube and the excess smoke.

[mdi]

Like lightman says, it's up to you if you wanna play by their rules. I went to an indoor range the would not let me shoot my handloads, once and did no shooting. I went to a range that tried to stop me from picking up my brass, just once, never returned. The last range I went to in LA would allow cast lead, and I freely picked up my brass. Twice a year they would shut the range down and clean it up real good, melt and cast the bullets into ingots, and sell the lead to the customers...

[RED BEAR]

Most indoor ranges prohibit reloads because they don't want to install the type of air filtration needed to take lead out of air. In addition they sell ammo range time is cheap comparable to cost of ammo.

[Walks]

I've been shooting at the same indoor range for 30yrs.
They let you shoot std handgun ammo in handguns or pistol caliber rifles. Even shotguns with birdshot.

They used to sell reloads, but now only Factory stuff. Just don't try to pick up more then your own brass. They sweep that out past the shooting line several times a day, more often if It's busy. The fan system has been improved over the years. But the lights stink.

It's only a 50ft range, I can only shoot guns with decent sights there. Such as big adjustable ones, like a S&W Model 14 or 27, or Ruger Blackhawk. Fixed sight guns are pretty much out, unless I want to shoot at 21ft like 90% of the shooters there.

Geez, those people are lousy shots. Two 50 boxes of Ammo and 6 different guns. Targets look like buckshot at 50ft. I walk the line every time I go, hoping to find another Handloader.

[dwtim]

A lot of indoor ranges prohibit cast because of concern about lead in the air.

Heard that one too. Which is hilarious, since most of the airborne lead comes from the lead styphnate primers in just about all ammunition sold these days. (And it's close to your face, not downrange where the bullets strike the plate.)

[dwtim]

Most indoor ranges prohibit reloads because they don't want to install the type of air filtration needed to take lead out of air. In addition they sell ammo range time is cheap comparable to cost of ammo.

Heard this one, too. Ask them if they allow .22 rimfire. :) Especially funny if you see that they sell rimfire ammo.

I used to shoot at a range where the owner made up a lot of rules that were not posted anywhere. It was because he wanted visitors to buy his ammo and targets at the counter, but he didn't want to say that point blank. Now when I visit a new range, I show up without guns beforehand, to meet the staff and to ask for a run down of their rules before I spend money at their business. I have no problem if they have a rule that I must use their ammo or targets. Just be honest with the customer, you know?

[chutestrate]

And did you know that lead melts in the barrel and creates lead gas? smh

[GhostHawk]

Vote with your feet.

Me I would not shoot at a range where I had to buy their ammo.

[ghh3rd]

The indoor range near me used to have a strict rule — no lead bullets and no reloads at all. About the middle of the great ammo shortage they changed their policy and allowed it. They were losing too much business during the shortage. They haven’t gone back to banning lead bullets or reloads.

On a side note, my first cast boolits were also my first reloads — Lee wadcutters, alox coated, over 2.7 gr of Bullseye. I couldn’t wait until I could get to the outdoor range to try them, and smuggled them into the indoor range. I was paranoid because I was afraid that the perfectly round holes, the smoke and the smell was giving me away.

[Peregrine]

On a side note, my first cast boolits were also my first reloads — Lee wadcutters, alox coated, over 2.7 gr of Bullseye. I couldn’t wait until I could get to the outdoor range to try them, and smuggled them into the indoor range. I was paranoid because I was afraid that the perfectly round holes, the smoke and the smell was giving me away.

I got a real chuckle out of that, thanks.

[jonp]

Quick story....

Am visiting one of my sons in Raleigh NC.... he takes me to a newish indoor range.I took a 70's Gold cup and a #14 Smith....both with tackdriver CB loads.

Just to be polite,I ask the RO if cast is cool with them. The late 30 sumthin woman says,she'll have to ask? So she goes up to the big cheese RO and asks him if armor piercing ammo is ok.....

This guy comes over and asks me what the heck? I'm like..... huh?

Long story short,cast was fine by them but no armor piercing. But how the question got screwed up is the interesting part. Seems a little "power" and a pea sized brain got their wires crossed. I ended up liking the head honcho,and got into the finer points of indoor ranges(we have one) vent systems and backstops. He just rolled his eyes on the females comments.

I know the indoor range your talking about. Nice facility I think and they never said anything about my reloads although to be fair I never asked.

The outdoor range I belong to doesn't care if you pick up your brass and take it with you but they want you to leave other peoples brass there which is fair enough I think

[Shopdog]

Yeah jonp,it is a nice..... and will go so far to say,well thought out building all things considered (retired builder). Taking private ranges out of the equation..... that place is at one end of the "bar" ...... then you go to the downtown Norfolk indoor range,Bob's IIRC....and they're at the other end.

And positively not knocking on the latter..... it's probably late 60's-70's. And has everything to complete that mental image of what an indoor range is 'sposed to be. Sorta dingey,not enough lighting,the woosh of the old but still cranking vent system.... I love it there,haha. Different strategies, different considerations and construction.

[Tom W.]

The indoor range that I referred to earlier sells RNL and LSWC if you want to buy any to shoot.....

[mdi]

Vote with your feet.

Me I would not shoot at a range where I had to buy their ammo.

There is (was?) a range in downtown LA that would not allow any ammo to be brought in. Ammo had to be purchased there. I think it was a range for a club that for some reason (business license?) had to be open to the public. To discourage any "public" from using the range they came up with impossible rules. I walked in and left within 10 minutes...

[jonp]

Yeah jonp,it is a nice..... and will go so far to say,well thought out building all things considered (retired builder). Taking private ranges out of the equation..... that place is at one end of the "bar" ...... then you go to the downtown Norfolk indoor range,Bob's IIRC....and they're at the other end.

And positively not knocking on the latter..... it's probably late 60's-70's. And has everything to complete that mental image of what an indoor range is 'sposed to be. Sorta dingey,not enough lighting,the woosh of the old but still cranking vent system.... I love it there,haha. Different strategies, different considerations and construction.

Couple of ranges in Raleigh like that. At one that was a mile from the house when we moved here a female cop was shooting next to me with her service pistol and kudos to her for practicing! All her shots were "minute of bad guy" that is, within the circle which is good enough in my book. I set up next to her with my Target Masterpiece and proceeded to knock out the 10. She kinda looked at me but Oh Well. I was impressed that she took the time off duty to practice. I wish more cops did that.

[flyingmonkey35]

This sounds like the range that would ask to see your tax stamp on your can.

Then would call and hand over all your info to the ATF. If you didn't.

Regardless of how the law reads.

I understand making money. But man some od the bigger fancy ranges are nuts.

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[chutestrate]

We also have a nice high end range here in Warminster, Pa called The Gaurdian. I want to check it out so after looking at their website I found no reference to cast ammo. I called and asked about using it. Employee response was "cast bullets"? Yes I explained, non jacketed, plain lead, think lead round now 38 special. Wow, no idea of what I was talking about. So when I go I'll just make sure I have jacketed and whatever cast is in my bag.

[RED BEAR]

I use an outdoor range. Can shoot anything i want only restriction is full autos on sat morning only. I used to wish they had a longer range than 100 yrds. Seldom use the 100 yrd anymore as i don't want to set up the targets . A big plus is it is only 5 min away. As for being able to buy 22 lr at indoor range . Never thought of t but you got me on that one my god it may be possible i don't know everything no one tell the wife have her convinced i do.

[trapper9260]

I had talk some years ago with my gunsmith about indoor ranges and the use of cast bullets in it, he said that need to have air filter system set up that will out of the lead in the air for the use of cast more then jacket. He was thinking of to put in indoor range and what would cost to put one in and all.As time went by he did not put one in yet.

[dondiego]

I had talk some years ago with my gunsmith about indoor ranges and the use of cast bullets in it, he said that need to have air filter system set up that will out of the lead in the air for the use of cast more then jacket. He was thinking of to put in indoor range and what would cost to put one in and all.As time went by he did not put one in yet.

Most of the particulate lead in the air near the shooter is caused by the priming compound, cast or jacketed, doesn't matter. Both cast and jacketed will also produce some lead dust at the target backstop area if it is made of steel. Air control is needed in either case.

[poppy42]

Most of the particulate lead in the air near the shooter is caused by the priming compound, cast or jacketed, doesn't matter. Both cast and jacketed will also produce some lead dust at the target backstop area if it is made of steel. Air control is needed in either case.
Exactly right! The reason any of the indoor ranges I’ve been to prohibit cast is to make more money selling ammunition. I’ve even been to a range in Kentucky that prohibits steal cased amo ( they didn’t want to have to sort cases for scrap). Like $1.25 a pound for brass case scrap wasn’t enough profit with a little labor sorting cases! Ya gotta remember there a business and they stay open by making money. Unfortunately at our expense!

[JBinMN]

Looks like the consensus so far on the OP question & topic title, from those who have posted here, is.....

NO.
;)

Some interesting reading about different doins at ranges around the country, etc., though.
:)

I shoot outdoors & on private & public lands, so the restrictions are little to few, with using normal firearm safety practices.
That doesn't help the OP to answer the questions, but it is a comment for someone to read if they want....
;)

[Winger Ed.]

The last indoor range I went to in the DFW area waved a magnet over your ammo,
and they had a ventilator about the size of a deep freezer. They didn't care about cast boolits.

They didn't want people crawling around under the benches collecting their brass,
but they had a long handled broom for you to reach under and bring it back,
and they didn't want you to take too many more dustpans full of it than you brought in.

[fredj338]

Took my nephews to new indoor range in Richmond, Va - Winding Brook Indoor range. Beautiful facility, but was told I couldn't use my cast reloads. It wasn't just the rule at that facility, but staff said it was all indoor ranges. It's been a while since I was at a different range, but I smelled b.s. but I didn't make an issue of it. I was there to have fun with my nephews.
As far as I know, that is **. They do not allow lead bullets mostly due to smoke. Not unlike some ranges denying your reloads, its so you buy their ammo.

[fredj338]

I had talk some years ago with my gunsmith about indoor ranges and the use of cast bullets in it, he said that need to have air filter system set up that will out of the lead in the air for the use of cast more then jacket. He was thinking of to put in indoor range and what would cost to put one in and all.As time went by he did not put one in yet.

All indoor public ranges require proper ventilation per OSHA. What ammo/bullets you use is really not an issue.

[1hole]

It's OHSA .... and range insurance company lawyers "common sense" rules. Neither (university educated) group knows diddly about much and practically nothing at all about firearms or ammunition but they "know" about lead bullets. Questions about primers or backstop splatters are rarely addressed by them.

It's unfair to condemn businesses about staff dummies; they have to hire help as it's available. Not many commercial shooting ranges, gunshops, sports shops, etc., are staffed with knowlegable people because few such people apply for the jobs.

[GhostHawk]

Was able to find a range here in New Orleans where I have been visiting my aunt last week.

Nice folks, no problems, fill out the online waiver, I set my box of .32sw long ammo with the cast bullets pointed up on the counter. "You folks going to have any problem with me shooting this?"

Nope, none at all, have fun.

And I did.

For NOLA residents, Harahan, west side of New Orleans, Hickory street, follow it south till it ends and your there.

Thank you bobby Lee for the tip.

Not my best day of shooting but far from my worst.

[44Blam]

One range I shoot at is an outdoor range with pistol/rifle/shotgun ranges...
In the pistol range, they found a large chunk of revolver cylinder embedded in the wall.
Nobody was killed; nobody claimed the chunk...
I am assuming that nobody was hurt, but I can imagine it was exciting.
I can imagine that some ranges don't want to deal with reloading "accidents".

[44Blam]

The main indoor range I shoot at doesn't care as long as the ammo is not metallic or specifically Wolf.
I did go there a while back with my redhawk and full house W296 rounds. When I went to check out, the guy asked what I was shooting. I looked at him and said "44 Magnum"."
He said there was no way it had to have been 454 casul or something bigger...
I asked him if he wanted to shoot it, but he declined.

[fredj338]

The main indoor range I shoot at doesn't care as long as the ammo is not metallic or specifically Wolf.
I did go there a while back with my redhawk and full house W296 rounds. When I went to check out, the guy asked what I was shooting. I looked at him and said "44 Magnum"."
He said there was no way it had to have been 454 casul or something bigger...
I asked him if he wanted to shoot it, but he declined.
HA! Size does matter. Shoot full loads in a 3"-4" 44mag, it sounds like a 40mm cannon going off.

[Edward]

The new indoor range that I belong to does not allow any lead bullets, cast, swaged, coated hand cast or factory loads. It lets some shooters out of the game because older rounds such as 32 S&W, 32-20, are only loaded factory with soft lead bullet. They do allow hand loaded jacketed and plated however, they would really like to disallow hand loaded ammunition. Such is the world today with too many lawyers with not enough to do.I would run not walk to a newer range :castmine:

[Burnt Fingers]

It's things like this that make me very glad I belong to a private club.

[1Hawkeye]

No its not a law the same guy that owns windingbrook owns blue ridge arsenal in chantilly and has a bad habit of making up stupid rules that he claims are laws. His idea is if I don't let you use your ammo then you will have to buy mine. I shoot at the NRA range in fairfax once in a while and the only ammo they don't allow is tracer,steel core, and bird shot because the shot clogs up the system.

[Bmi48219]

The indoor ranges I frequent won't allow armor piercing or steel core ammo. Cast lead and PC are fine as well as reloads. They do have very expensive air filtration and lead dust collection systems. They sell range ammo which you have to purchase if you rent their firearms, all of which makes sense to me. I've seen double charge and squibs reloads, squib factory loads and short COL factory loads, one of which blew up a shooter's Pistol. Anything can happen and sooner or later it will.

[edp2k]

It's called a big fat lie.

There is a store around here which, 2 months ago, stopped providing customers with a bag to put their purchased goods in.

When I recently asked about it they said "it's a new state law, we cannot provide bags anymore",
to which I responded "that's really interesting, because all the other 100's of stores in the area still give you a bag".
She came back with, "oh, well, the state is considering banning bags, and we are just being pro-active",
to which I replied, "occasionally cortex is want to make the government give people everything they want for free,
so why don't you start giving all your goods away for free and be ahead of the curve?"

Curiously, she had no response :)

[luvtn]

Don’t ask don’t tell! Of course at my range on my property it isn’t a problem. I haven’t been to an indoor range in months. Last time I went I was out of town, and my GF wanted to shoot her new gun.
luvtn