Separate Range scrap?

[WaterRat]

Does anyone pick through range scrap and separate jacketed bullets from cast bullets?
I was thinking it would be a good idea and that you could probably just use the cast bullet lead as is to poor new bullets.
That is until I started doing it, its a bit of a time eater LOL

[trails4u]

Copper won't melt until nearly 2000 degrees F. Just scoop the jackets out with your dross.

[DW475]

I just dump it all in my 100lb smelter and like trails4u said, scoop the jackets out with the dross. I sell the jackets to the local recycler when I get bucket full.

[psweigle]

Jacketed bullet lead SEEMS to be softer after melting than lead boolits do. But that deing said, i just melt them all together.

[kevin c]

I've read here of berm miners hitting "lodes" of cast boolits in their digs because the shooters at their range use a lot of them and/or shoot into a specific spot. I've read here that the cores of jacketed slugs tend to be a softer lead than cast, since the jacket provides the needed hardness, so that separating one from the other can give you alloys of different hardness.

Whether it's worth the time and effort must be a matter what gets shot into the berm (a great predominance of one or the other might make it easier) and where, and what it's worth to the miner. In my case, my club has too much of a mix for me to go to the trouble.

[daloper]

I don't separate mine. I do take a pair of side cutters and nip the nose off the jacketed ones so that they will melt and run out easier. Scoop the jackets off when they float up and make my ingots.

[Stephen Cohen]

I tried sorting the jacketed from cast and lost interest real quick, but I ended up with some 400 Kilograms of lead ingots that were fine for my use. I plan to mine the berms at my club again when it cools down some, I being an older member can remember where the old disused berms were which contain mostly high lino content lead and very little jacketed. Who said being old don't have its advantages. Regards Stephen

[LenH]

Most of the range lead I get is jacketed bullets of some sort. My brother on the OKC area is able to get lead fairly quick and easy. I see very little cast in the mix.
I do have to make sure the FMJ's are cut open or cracked open to get the lead out. I generally treat the stuff as almost pure. It usually test some where between
8 & 9 on a Cabine Tree tester. I still have 200 or 300# I haven't processed. I need to us up what I have already have in ingots.

[truckjohn]

I was hoping this was about an easier way to get all the rocks and trash out without having to pick it all out slowly....

Jacket from cast - I did that once..... It made a super slow process even slower - as melting down range scrap is super time consuming as it is....

[samari46]

Most of the 45 auto shooters used a 230 grain round nosed hard cast bullet and when mining the berm with a rake,shovel and screen loaded into 5 gallon buckets. Couldn't fill them full as it was a real pain to get them in the truck. Come smelting time would dump a bucket at a time and separate all those 45 auto bullets and do them separately. The ingots would go into a separate bucket and marked with a magic marker.
Frank

[Winger Ed.]

Who said being old don't have its advantages.
Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill.


I just melt it all together. Stir it a few times and all the jackets float to the top.

[lightman]

I never separated mine, just smelted it all together. My range had a lot of bullseye shooters and the scrap contained a high % of cast with a small mix of jacketed and 22 rimfire. Smelted together, it made a decent alloy. A lot of it got caked into a mass where the bottom and backing plates came together in the trap and separating it would have been impossible.

[RoGrrr]

I mine a berm at a range where I volunteer to run it when the manager needs a day off. He knew of my arrangement with the previous proprietors of the range and allowed me to continue.
Since the range wasn't open 7 days I asked for a key so I could mine at my leisure. Previously, I had to listen for a car pulling into the lot and not be on the berm when paying customers came in.
He offered me a key with the proviso that I "pay" him back by volunteering some of my time IF he needed me.
For me, it was a GOOD DEAL !
I have about a ton of recovered slugs/ore which I have smelted into clean ingots to cast in my Bullet Master. Consequently, I load a box of centerfire for under $2. I consider that I get to shoot for "FREE!"
Cast is harder than the cores in jacketed boolits. Sort the lead ? NOPE. I figure no matter what the BHN is, it will shoot better than I can.
People rag on me for mining the berm, saying it's dirty, back breaking and time consuming. I tell them that I'm retired so I have all the time in the world. I'm an athlete so it's good exercize for me. And as far as dirty, there's this stuff called SOAP AND WATER !
Then I explain that with what I have I can cast 60,000 45 slugs or 120,000 9mm. If you have to buy that many, it will cost you about $7,000. That shuts them up.
I built a sifter basket from 1/4" machine screen. You will see it in the urls I've provided below.
I shake what I pick up and much of the dirt falls out the bottom. When I get home with it, I rinse it to remove the remainder of the dirt. Then I smelt it into clean ingots.
Not sure if I mentioned but I can fill a 5 gallon bucket in under half hour. That's about 175 Lbs. I get about 125 Lbs of lead, 25 Lbs of copper jackets (which get sold at the scrap yard). The rest is dross which I discard onto my gravel lane.

Here is some info if you care to read some:
SIFTING RANGE SCRAP

For those of you who want to mine and shoot for FREE, here are some threads which might prove invaluable.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?284504-range-scrap-shovel

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?280723-clean-out-day-at-the-range!




More mining/sifting
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?174512-Range-diving-186lbs&highlight=186lbs
Mine starts at post #21
This thread is over 70 posts but has MUCH good info for those of you who want to mine berms.

[Pete44mag]

Thanks for this thread! I'm new to casting my own boolits and just this weekend volunteered to help clean out the indoor range at the club I belong to. I got about 500# of scrap and was trying to figure out a fast way to separate the copper from the lead. Now I found it, just melt it, flux it and pour into ingots. With the help of this site hopefully I'll be able to learn how to get ingots cast into boolits then powder coated so can load them and go shooting. I already learned from reloading that you don't save money you just shoot more. Now I think I'll learn from casting the same lesson. Thanks again folks!!!

[Dragonheart]

My lead comes from an outdoor range where everything has hit a steel plate backstop. I guess you could separate, but my last smelt yielded over 500 pounds of clean ingots. That translates to buckets and buckets of sifted out shattered bullets, jackets, sand, wood, plastic, etc, etc that is rough, sharp and not what I would want to sort through. I just dump it all into my pot, bring it up to temp, throw in some flux and start skimming the debris off the top. I consider everything that doesn't come out of my bottom pour spout to be debris. I quit testing for lead hardness because by the time my full pot of 200+ pounds of alloy has mixed and ready to pour it comes out the be around a 10 bhn. Since I powder coat and 95% of my shooting is handgun the alloy mix is not important anyway.

[rmark]

My range scrap is about 40% cast pistol bullets, 40% jacketed pistol bullets, 10% jacketed rifle, its hardness is about BHN 10.

[higgins]

Since I'm retired and have too much time on my hands I sort range scrap into cast, jacketed, and other (including unidentifiable). I cast some .45 Colt bullets from jacketed bullet core metal and I believe they were too soft because they leaded with loads that didn't lead with COWW metal bullets. I then tried 50/50 jacketed bullet core metal/cast bullet metal and they were fine.

I've always cast rifle bullets from either COWW or cast bullet metal with good results.

I don't have a hardness tester, but years ago someone else tested some plated bullets for me, and they ranged from bnh 7-14. I haven't tried casting bullets from plated bullet metal, and may not as long as I've got plenty of "known" metal.

I suppose if you needed a larger volume of bullets you could just smelt it all together and come out OK as long as they bullets are not overwhelmingly jacketed bullets. Someone will probably be along later to tell me that they use jacketed bullet core metal and it works just fine for them; I don't doubt them, but the metal I had didn't work for me unless it was hardened a bit.

[RED BEAR]

Another vote for melting all at once.

[rcslotcar]

When I melt down large unknown lots into ingots I cast several slugs that I test the BH and mark the ingots.

[grullaguy]

Been separating for years. I separate jacketed, plated, cast and buckshot and known soft into separate containers.
I am a masochist I know.
Combined with periodic hardness testing, I can blend for almost any situation.

[Tom W.]

I just shoot paper now, so IF I get to do some berm mining, I try to make it in the middle of the week when no one will probably be coming. When I was young my buddy and I would get a lot in short order, melt it at a low temp and use a sieve looking spoon like thing to get the dross out. As long as I lubed the boolits properly I never had any trouble with leading....

[243winxb]

Sierras lead cores, in jacketed bullets, use 4 different alloys. Not all are pure lead. Info off Sierras website.

Lead wire for forming cores has up to 2% antimony.

Put it all in the pot. Add linotype later if larger , harder bullets are needed.

[Dragonheart]

Since I'm retired and have too much time on my hands I sort range scrap into cast, jacketed, and other (including unidentifiable). I cast some .45 Colt bullets from jacketed bullet core metal and I believe they were too soft because they leaded with loads that didn't lead with COWW metal bullets. I then tried 50/50 jacketed bullet core metal/cast bullet metal and they were fine.

I've always cast rifle bullets from either COWW or cast bullet metal with good results.

I don't have a hardness tester, but years ago someone else tested some plated bullets for me, and they ranged from bnh 7-14. I haven't tried casting bullets from plated bullet metal, and may not as long as I've got plenty of "known" metal.

I suppose if you needed a larger volume of bullets you could just smelt it all together and come out OK as long as they bullets are not overwhelmingly jacketed bullets. Someone will probably be along later to tell me that they use jacketed bullet core metal and it works just fine for them; I don't doubt them, but the metal I had didn't work for me unless it was hardened a bit.

Of course you could just powder coat your bullets and not worry about the hardness of the alloy and leading. When I make HP bullets I look for soft lead.

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

I separate it. I only have two types of lead: 1)Hard (cast bullets and COWW) and 2) soft (jacketed bullets, dental lead, plumbing and roofing lead). I never add tin or sb. I just mix from the two types to achieve my desired hardness.

[dbosman]

I don't worry about jackets. Lead expands and manages to find some crack or makes one in the jacket or plating.

[tecdac]

Just found an indoor range that is advertising on Craigslist.
You can take whatever lead you can haul.
I'm thinking there is gonna be a lot of jackets in there.
I will just melt them in the pot and scoop them out with the dross.
Free is free.

[Dragonheart]

Just found an indoor range that is advertising on Craigslist.
You can take whatever lead you can haul.
I'm thinking there is gonna be a lot of jackets in there.
I will just melt them in the pot and scoop them out with the dross.
Free is free.

Just some advice from a retired Lead Risk Assessor. You can end up with lead poisoning unless you have and use the proper protection for such a a task. Lead dust is easily carried into clean environments contaminating them with lead.

[tecdac]

Just some advice from a retired Lead Risk Assessor. You can end up with lead poisoning unless you have and use the proper protection for such a a task. Lead dust is easily carried into clean environments contaminating them with lead.

We should talk.
My BLL is 24.
Been trying to get it back down.
Ventilation in the shop is good.
I meticulously wash my hands with D-lead soap after a day in the shop.
Change clothes before I go home.
Dirty clothes go in a plastic bag.
They get washed on the Sanitize setting.

I have been cutting lead with a torch and now I have added a big fan in back of me that blows the vapors away.

[Dragonheart]

We should talk.
My BLL is 24.
Been trying to get it back down.
Ventilation in the shop is good.
I meticulously wash my hands with D-lead soap after a day in the shop.
Change clothes before I go home.
Dirty clothes go in a plastic bag.
They get washed on the Sanitize setting.

I have been cutting lead with a torch and now I have added a big fan in back of me that blows the vapors away.

From what you tell me I would suggest the torch is the most likely problem. Some mistakenly think lead has to boil to become airborne, but lead molecules get attached to contaminates that are cooking off; this is true with a torch and even the lead casting pots. The fumes/lead dust can go everywhere, even blown by the fan. Friction, anything rubbing against the lead or paint that contains lead, can create lead dust so fine it is not detectable by eye.

Handling lead can be a problem, but the most common cause of lead poisoning is ingesting or inhaling it, but don't forget the eyes. The handling makes it easier for an individual to ingest. Water coolers & open paper cups or bottles is a way to pick up and ingest lead dust.

It doesn't take a lot lead dust to poison, especially children, who are much much more susceptible and unfortunately damage to their system is often permanent because their bodies and brains are still developing. For example, most are familiar with the pink packets of artificial sweetener (Sweet & Low). If that very small quantity of sweetener was lead dust and it was spread inside an average home that could be enough lead to poison a small child. Lead dust is easily transferred from a contaminated area by foot traffic, off clothing, from hair, hands, tools, etc. etc. Lead dust can easily be transferred to family members.

Even though you are not at an action level you might want to consider complete avoidance until your blood levels return to normal. If that is not possible limit your exposure, as mentioned the lead dust is likely on every surface in the cutting area.

When I personally work with lead I wear clothing to cover as much skin as possible (I wear a long-sleeved jump suit) boors, cap and a (North brand) full face respirator with HEPA/Vapor cartridges. I shower as soon as possible and my clothing is bagged and not brought home or cleaned in the family washer.

So many of the lead poisoning symptoms get ignored as they are attributed to something else like; high blood pressure, gastric problems, nerve problems, memory problems, eye problems, etc. etc.

[tecdac]

Thank you for your response.
I have just recently started using a high power fan while cutting with a torch.
I do the cutting outside.

[GregLaROCHE]

I collect from an indoor range at 25 and 50 yards. You are not allowed to shoot jacked bullets except at 50 yds where there are a couple of heavy duty bullet traps.

Most of the 25 yard shooters are hand gunners shooting hard alloys. At 50 yds it’s 22lf and a lot muzzle loaders shooting round balls, with a few others shooting jacketed. The lead I collect at 25 yds averages 14 BHN and the lead from 50 yds is off the scale of my Lee hardness tester on the soft side.

I used to mix both, but now I separate the two. I have a good thing. I’m the only one collecting it. It’s a cement floor and I just have to sweep and shovel it into buckets. It’s full of paper bits and small wood chips. No problem. I melt it all together and I don’t have to add sawdust to flux, when pouring ingots. I do a much more thorough fluxing before casting boolits. Each six months I get over 500lbs of ingots. I’m building a nice stock pile.

If anyone has a copy of a table for the Lee hardness tester that shows data for softer lead than what comes in the Lee kit, I would appreciate it if you would post it.

[fredj338]

I don't separate. Just throw it all in the pot & melt it. Then it gets poured into ingots. The avg bhn is 9-10, perfect for most of my handgun needs & can be adjusted by adding ingots of clip ww or lino.

[samari46]

I made up a 2'x2' square then nailed on one side some 1/4" hardware cloth. Think screening with 1/4" squares. Rake,shovel and a bunch of 5 gallon buckets. having a pool made that part easy. Once a month they shut down the pistol range and I'd drive over and begin my mining operations. If you had a good rain you'd find hundreds of spent bullets on the ground. rake them up, shovel into my screen shake them and into one of the buckets. Otherwise rake the berm and they'd come out of the berm. My buddy who shot there would easily go through a 1000 a week. Used to joke with him I'm shooting his bullets.Frank

[Stephen Cohen]

From what you tell me I would suggest the torch is the most likely problem. Some mistakenly think lead has to boil to become airborne, but lead molecules get attached to contaminates that are cooking off; this is true with a torch and even the lead casting pots. The fumes/lead dust can go everywhere, even blown by the fan. Friction, anything rubbing against the lead or paint that contains lead, can create lead dust so fine it is not detectable by eye.

Handling lead can be a problem, but the most common cause of lead poisoning is ingesting or inhaling it, but don't forget the eyes. The handling makes it easier for an individual to ingest. Water coolers & open paper cups or bottles is a way to pick up and ingest lead dust.

It doesn't take a lot lead dust to poison, especially children, who are much much more susceptible and unfortunately damage to their system is often permanent because their bodies and brains are still developing. For example, most are familiar with the pink packets of artificial sweetener (Sweet & Low). If that very small quantity of sweetener was lead dust and it was spread inside an average home that could be enough lead to poison a small child. Lead dust is easily transferred from a contaminated area by foot traffic, off clothing, from hair, hands, tools, etc. etc. Lead dust can easily be transferred to family members.

Even though you are not at an action level you might want to consider complete avoidance until your blood levels return to normal. If that is not possible limit your exposure, as mentioned the lead dust is likely on every surface in the cutting area.

When I personally work with lead I wear clothing to cover as much skin as possible (I wear a long-sleeved jump suit) boors, cap and a (North brand) full face respirator with HEPA/Vapor cartridges. I shower as soon as possible and my clothing is bagged and not brought home or cleaned in the family washer.

So many of the lead poisoning symptoms get ignored as they are attributed to something else like; high blood pressure, gastric problems, nerve problems, memory problems, eye problems, etc. etc.

You paint a scary picture sir, and I have no doubt you are right. I must be doing something right as my last test was clear. I once read that lead can be absorbed through the skin especially if one is sweating as the acid in sweat helps the process, I have been told this is rubbish but I take no chances. Regards Stephen

[RoGrrr]

I made up a 2'x2' square then nailed on one side some 1/4" hardware cloth. Think screening with 1/4" squares. Rake,shovel and a bunch of 5 gallon buckets. having a pool made that part easy. Once a month they shut down the pistol range and I'd drive over and begin my mining operations. If you had a good rain you'd find hundreds of spent bullets on the ground. rake them up, shovel into my screen shake them and into one of the buckets. Otherwise rake the berm and they'd come out of the berm. My buddy who shot there would easily go through a 1000 a week. Used to joke with him I'm shooting his bullets.Frank

Your experience verifies exactly what I learned/do (post 13).
Takes time ? YES.
That's what hobbies are for...

And IF the rain ever stops, perhaps ALL the boolits will be on top of the soil. JK

[Dragonheart]

You paint a scary picture sir, and I have no doubt you are right. I must be doing something right as my last test was clear. I once read that lead can be absorbed through the skin especially if one is sweating as the acid in sweat helps the process, I have been told this is rubbish but I take no chances. Regards Stephen

I am not suggesting any or all give up their hobby or using lead. I just would like to think more have thought the process through and realize the dangers not only to themselves, but for other individuals they may come into contact with, especially children. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it is not there and can do no harm.

When you salvage lead all that stuff you are sifting & sweeping is highly contaminated and much worse than handling a block of pure lead, because it is in a powder form we call lead dust. This dust is easily picked up, inhaled, enters through your eyes and mouth and digested. Studies indicate lead can be adsorbed through the skin, but inhaling or ingesting are the most likely way to get lead poisoning and it doesn't take a lot. What is worse is how easily the dust is transporter to a clean environment like your home or after an outing savaging range scrap the kids run out and give daddy a hug while he is still covered with lead dust.

I salvage lead, that is just about all I shoot. But I wear a long-sleeved jump suit, gloves, cap and a full face respirator with a minimum of HEPA cartridge filters. Actually I uses HEPA/Vapor filters. The scrap goes into buckets with tight sealing lids. The sealed buckets are tightly covered with plastic tarps and are transported where they cannot spill or transfer dust. I do not eat or drink when I am doing this. I shower and change clothes before entering my home, my clothing is bagged to be cleaned elsewhere. I wear the same and clean up the same when I smelt and I don't depend on the wind or a fan to blow the fumes from my direction. Just a few basic precautions can keep you safe even if you are handling a hazardous product.