Tumble lube vs powder coat

[weeple2000]

I'm interested in hearing from people that have tried both tumble lube and powder coat. I have started by powder coating with smoke powder. When I first bought my gear I picked up a tube of Lee liquid alox. So I mixed up a batch of Ben's liquid lube. If you've tried both I'd love to hear what you thought of each in comparison.

[44Blam]

PC, then BLL. Just in case. ;)

[fatelk]

I started out tumble-lubing, over 30 years ago. I eventually got a lube sizer and did that for a long time. I got back into tumble-lubing for a couple calibers, using some of the better TL recipes. A couple years ago I started powder coating. Now I powder coat exclusively.

What do I think, personally? Powder-coating, hands down. Tumbling lubing worked OK most of the time, though I hated the mess. I became a big fan of traditional lube-sizing, and had all the gear for it. At first I resisted going to powder coating because I'm pretty traditional and not given to jumping onto the latest fad.

I have to say, though, to me powder coating is a game-changer, a major step forward in the evolution of the cast bullet. You couldn't pay me to go back to the old ways.

[RogerDat]

powder coating is better but a larger investment in time. I find I can tumble lube a batch of plinking bullets in a 1/2 gallon zip lock bag that will work fine and involve a lot less effort on my part. If I want to push the velocity a bit or am going for max accuracy the PC is worth the extra time and cost. For example all my .223 are powder coated, same for almost all 8mm or 303 or 30 caliber. Revolver bullets some are and some aren't. I wouldn't bother for plinking ammo in any of those rifles but since I'm often making the bullets well in advance I don't know how I'll eventually load them.

[psweigle]

I do both. Powdercoat for velocity and alox for plinking. So far, both have done the job equally well.

[bmortell]

I like both just depends what for. for easy cheap target ammo a 20 dollar lee tumble lube mold shaked in LLA is as easy as it gets. anything else im happy with powder coating. I like how it isn't tacky and has no exposed lead makes for a good finished product imo compared to lubed bullets. they just have to be bullets that's you value enough to put the extra time in. like my 38 practice bullets I just want to go bang and send something forward, im not gonna spend an extra hour PC'ing them so I can save 2 minutes with a bore brush, that's a net loss of 58 minutes, so just give me the brush. if im making ammo that's a hunting load a carry load a box for a relative ect. ill go for the extra looks and performance of PC'ing even if tumble lubed could do the same job.

[weeple2000]

Most of my casting is going to be shot through a 1911 in 45 acp for bullseye. The loads we use are less velocity than typical loads for the caliber. I am thinking the PC isn't going to be needed from a leading perspective. I wouldn't be surprised if accuracy from a rest is better with PC but I can pretty much guarantee that off hand I won't be able to tell the difference between TL and PC. As for scrubbing my bore, for a while I wasn't doing it when I was shooting PC.

I have gotten into the practice of plunking all of my rounds before shooting them on a line. I found that if I didn't scrub my bore, over time enough residue would build up from the powder, that my rounds wouldn't plunk. So now I scrub my bore every time I plunk my rounds. I probably plunk 200 at a time. So given the effort for PC I am going to give TL a try.

I did TL about 300 boolits in BLL. I used the recipe 30% LLA or Xlox /30% Lundmark Liquid Wax /40% Mineral spirits. From what I understand, you need very little of the BLL when lubing. I tumbled them in a Tupperware container. I probably used about 7 drops of BLL for 100 45 ACP boolits. Does that sound about right? After they dried, I don't think I could tell by appearance that they had lube on them.

[Conditor22]

Once I started powdercoating and HiTek coating I never went back to lubes. Lubes are messy, sticky, gum up your dies, require keeping the bottom of the boolit clean and smoke when fired. plus many lubes dry out and fail over time.
coatings encapsulate the lead ( my reloading friends with kids like them because it puts a barrier between the kids and the lead, the girls like the pretty colors, I like the fact that I can designate differennt charges or sizes by using different colors.

my 2¢ worth :)

[Smk SHoe]

Love the fact that you can use different colors for different charges or for different guns.

[Walter Laich]

PC
it won't melt in garages in our Texas summers like lube will

[Chainsaw.]

Ive tried both and Im hard for powder coat, there is a mess involved but its just in the initial process, after that its clean, VS making a mess every time you handle lubed bullets, when shot the bore is clean after one dry patch, no lube slobber around the cylinder face of my revolvers, oistols stay as clean as shooting jacketed ammo. As stated above PC looses in the time it takes to apply for me because I take the time to stand wvery bullet on end on the cook tray, each users prerogative. Plus I can color code rounds for say different loadings.

[MyFlatline]

Powder coat all the way, no melted lubes or sticky dies as mentioned before. Can make batches to store with no worries. Will never go back to lube..

[waco]

PC has it's place. It's not for everything. Case in point. Try to PC a bore riding bullet. Now your nose is a thou or so too big.
It is a welcomed addition to my shooting. That being said. I'm not getting rid of my Lyman 450 or my Star.
BLL is an awesome lube. Nothing wrong using this either. It works VERY well. A lot boils down to personal preference.

[Chainsaw.]

Waco, if you dont mind, what is a bore riding bullet?

[bmortell]

chainsaw, basically the rear portion of the bullet (driving bands) is the diameter of the groves in the rifling, and the forward portion is the diameter of the tops of the rifling so that it centers it in the barrel. where as some others may just taper down from grove size to the nose.

[RogerDat]

The Lee 8mm is a bore riding design https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-molds/bullet-molds/762-x-39-303-b-8mm/lee-dc-mold-c324-175-1r-mold-dc-
As opposed to the Lee heavy 30 caliber which tapers all the way to the tip https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-molds/bullet-molds/30-cal/lee-dc-mold-tl309-230-5r

Myself I size after PC for most uses. That incudes bullets that get an initial sizing when applying a gas check before I PC, then I size again after PC. I will say my most accurate 38 special is a PC and sized bullet. Same bullet will shoot ok as cast and tumble lubed but it gives up a bit in accuracy for doing less work to prep the bullet. Not much loss but something.

[flyingmonkey35]

Results will vary.

I will say this about it.

Once you start casting your own bloolits. And work a load for your guns. You will never go back to buying factory ammo.

Lube or PC/hitech. Or swaging there is nothing better then knowing you are shooting your own hand made stuff. Cheap.

You WILL NOT SAVE MONEY

You will just shoot a heck of a lot more for the same cost.


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[popper]

BLL still is smoky, but works. PC is a little extra work but worth it to me.

[stubshaft]

I still use all three types of lube. Tumble, lubrisizer and PC because I have worked up great loads in different guns and do not want to or need to redo it.

[mdi]

I've done both, but it's not an apple to apple comparison, kinda like comparing plated to nekkid lead. I don't get leading with my pan or dip lubed bullets anymore mainly because they fit my guns. Pan lubing takes a bit of time (I haven't seen the need for me to get a lubersizer, after casting/lubing for 30 years), and dip lubing with 45-45-10 or alox is quick and easy. PCing can get involved with time and equipment, starting with simple tools, like a cool whip tub and a method of curing the PC is needed. My PCing stuff grew into a sprayer and toaster oven and about 8 pounds of different powder with several "custom" pans and assorted equipment/supplies. I had to "build" a bench top "spray booth" as powder will get into everything everywhere, even when tumbling. Both work for me in all my handguns and some of my rifles. I don't do much PCing as of late but I still have a few hundred PCed bullets available and occasionally use some.

[Forrest r]

PC has it's place. It's not for everything. Case in point. Try to PC a bore riding bullet. Now your nose is a thou or so too big.
It is a welcomed addition to my shooting. That being said. I'm not getting rid of my Lyman 450 or my Star.
BLL is an awesome lube. Nothing wrong using this either. It works VERY well. A lot boils down to personal preference.

Excellent answer!!! +1 ^^^^^^^
I pc all my pistol/revolver bullets. Rifle bullets it depends, some get lubed in the 450, others get the 450 + tl, and the rest get pc'd + tl.

[mdi]

Jes wondering, why would you PC then tumble lube?

[weeple2000]

If they're doing it for rifle I suspect it's for higher velocity.

[fredj338]

PC all day. It just shoots cleaner with less smoke.

[David2011]

PC all day. It just shoots cleaner with less smoke.

It is just plain silly to want your gun to stay clean and have less smoke. I was told that on this forum several years ago when I posed a question looking to reduce smoke when shooting USPSA. Apparently the respondent fired a single shot rifle and not 4-5 shots per second against the clock and to have to shoot 500 rounds without cleaning.

[gwpercle]

PC, then BLL. Just in case. ;)
You powder coat and then apply BLL to the powder coated boolits ?

[2wheelDuke]

It is just plain silly to want your gun to stay clean and have less smoke. I was told that on this forum several years ago when I posed a question looking to reduce smoke when shooting USPSA. Apparently the respondent fired a single shot rifle and not 4-5 shots per second against the clock and to have to shoot 500 rounds without cleaning.

Some of the personalities that come out on this site are interesting to watch. Same goes for real life. Different techniques are just tools in the toolbox to me. I don't see any one as the be-all, end-all. Sure there's established things that work great for certain applications.

Some people cling to their methods like they're a religion. The old "that's the way it's always been done" approach. When I told my dad that I was experimenting with tumble lube bullets, you'd think I told him I was selling my pickup and guns and moving to San Francisco. He seemed offended that I was breaking with the old traditions. To him, a dipper, an iron mold, and a Lyman 450 were the ONLY way to make bullets. I did by myself a lubrisizer later on, but I still tumble lube some bullets for certain loadings.

On the other side of the coin, some people latch on to the latest fad, trend, or technology and really run with it.

Some people just feel the need to tinker. They might make the next pet rock, or they may re-invent the wheel. Some of the curmudgeons at my range didn't even know what to say when I started experimenting with powder coated bullets and showed off some of my creations. By then I think my dad pretty well gave up on trying to tell me things when it came to casting and loading.

The high volume IDPA guys have different needs than the black powder guys or long range rifle guys, etc. Do what works for you.

[GLynn41]

Just started PC and my well shot .358 win likes it better so far than BLL which is good stuff
For my .410 GNR PC boolits are too large-- they are expanding a little when I size them in my 450?
The cooking process does soften my alloy at this point-- so for the GNR 450 all the way..I killed a meat doe with my 16.5 Henry with a pc'd 212 gr cup point... and it did fine -- good expansion-- I like all three but am shooting all three

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I'm transitioning over from tumble lube to PC. Once I worked out the coating, baking, etc, PC seems the way to go, and only slightly more trouble. It has solved several problems for me, a leading 9mm, binding cylinder on a 357, a rapidly fouling extractor on a rifle. Only downside is a few boolits that chambered fine as cast and tumble lubed now require sizing due to the thickness of the PC. I know there are better powders out there, but I've had decent enough luck with Harbor Freight Red. I'm not fond of the occasional burning plastic smell when shooting, probably worse than LLA, but it is fine outside. Never tried PC indoors, but I do know my LLA loads would create quite the smoke signals!

[MSD MIke]

I know fit is king but I have had some guns that I never could get a no lead result with using tumble lube or traditional lubing. No matter what the alloy and fit situation is. Fit remains important but I believe a good to great result is far easier to achieve with properly powder coated bullets. To me, loading powder coated bullets is just about as easy as loading jacketed bullets. After shooting my barrels are squeaky clean with no lead or copper fouling. PC is not a difficult process at all once you get the hang of it.

Mike

Mike

[rintinglen]

for me, time is the major limiting factor as to why I do not powder coat. I also have space considerations, but the major problem is time.

[Cloverdale]

My powder coating takes less time than tumble lube...don't have to wait on them to dry. I dump about 500 in the tumbler, add powder and tumble for 10 minutes, dump'em in a couple of pans and bake'em. Just me, but I will never conventionally lube another boolit...tumble lube or lubrisize.

[weeple2000]

It just seems like standing them on end to bake pc takes forever. I tried putting them in a basket instead of on parchment paper, but then they stick together and they're hard to break apart.

[Cloverdale]

It just seems like standing them on end to bake pc takes forever. I tried putting them in a basket instead of on parchment paper, but then they stick together and they're hard to break apart.

I don't stand them on end...I only cast handgun bullets. I dump...literally dump them in a pan and bake them. When baked...as soon as they cool, I size them. There will be a few that are stuck together...in a pan of 250, there will be about 20 that have to be broken apart. I just pick them up and squeeze and they come right apart.

Anyway, we all have our ways...this is mine and it works fantastic for me.

[weeple2000]

Thanks I'll try that instead.

[Cloverdale]

Thanks I'll try that instead.

One tip...when mine come out of the tumbler, I dump them in a cheap plastic collander from the dollar store and shake off excess powder...dump them from the collander into the baking pan.

[brewer12345]

I have tumble lubed from the start, but I have a revolver that leads no matter what I do. With commercial coated, plated, or jacketed everything is fine, so I bought a sample pack of Smoke's powder and will be climbing the learning curve if spring ever shows up. I will be starting with handgun boolits, but I may also try some rifle boolits PCd. Tumble lubing has worked well for my 30 and 35 cal rifles, so I will experiment with PC there, but I don't really have a reason to do so.

[Forrest r]

I've had nothing but excellent results with pc'd bullets in all my revolvers/pistols. Same with low velocity rifle bullets, low velocity ='s less than 2600fps. When I started getting into the 2650fps+ range I started seeing black streaks in the 308w bbl.
https://i.imgur.com/ltVgHNy.jpg?2

It took bore-tech eliminator to get those black streaks out. Switched over to pc + bbl and no more black streaks.

[weeple2000]

2600 seems pretty fast to be pushing lead. How are the groups at that velocity and above?

[waco]

2600 seems pretty fast to be pushing lead. How are the groups at that velocity and above?

Here is a video of me hitting a 10" plate at 500 yards with cast .308 at over 2650fps. These are lubed with 2500+

I get a five shot sub 2 moa group.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9VDouNYi7A&t=182s

[Forrest r]

2600 seems pretty fast to be pushing lead. How are the groups at that velocity and above?

Right at 1 1/2" 10-shot groups @ 100yds with loads the rifle likes. But so far I've only been using 2 different bullets and 2 different powders. Just started testing a 3rd powder.

[waco]

Right at 1 1/2" 10-shot groups @ 100yds with loads the rifle likes. But so far I've only been using 2 different bullets and 2 different powders. Just started testing a 3rd powder.

What bullets are you having luck with? What powders?

[Loudenboomer]

I use both a conventional Lyman lubrisizer and tumble 45-45-10. My 3rd method is jacketed bullets.

[dverna]

With over 45 years using lube, I saw no need to PC for my situation. Low smoke is not an attribute I require.

Initially, PC techniques involved standing bullets up and ES coating...definitely not for me. The development of using airsoft BB’s was a huge improvement, and now that people are getting acceptable results dumping coated bullets onto a tray makes the process much less onerous.

If I was starting over, I would start with BLL, as it must be the best bang for the buck wrt time and money. If what you shoot does not lead, and is accurate, you are done. I have never tumble lubes but have a lifetime supply of Johnson One Step just in case my Star bites the dust. It is truly a good way to lube.

As I have a Star, and only use a handful of different bullets, nothing is better for my needs. IF you shoot many different calibers, and bullet styles, it is a poor choice. IMHO

If BLL does not work for you, try PC. The issue I see with PC is the need to cook the coating...that is an outdoor activity or done under a vent hood if indoors.

Take claims of accuracy with caution. I do not believe many, if any, cast benchrest competitors use PC. If it was a panacea, they would all use it. But then do you need that degree of performance? Sometimes good enough is good enough. For the vast majority of pistol shooting it is a moot point anyway.

Again, if I was starting over and wanted to experiment with different calibers and bullets styles, BLL, or PC in that order. Unless most of your shooting will be 9mm..Then PC gives you a higher chance of success.

BTW, I only use lubes....but I have a large investment in the equipment and it has worked for me for many decades. For me to recommend BLL and/or PC is telling.

[Forrest r]

What bullets are you having luck with? What powders?

A 180gr cramer copy of the lyman 311336 & rl19 in the 2450fps range
The lee 160gr 312-160tl tl bullet h335 2680fps

Have a bunch of different powders along with 7 or 8 different bullets to try including the bullet you use.

[gloob]

When you figure out how to load TL bullets, and when you find the guns that can shoot 'em (not all of them can), then it's as good as it gets. No need for PC. But PC will work in most all your guns.

When you have a case and bullet that seals the chamber and bore, you don't necessarily get any smoke using TL. I can do rapid fire in an indoor range and make no smoke with many of my locked breech guns where all the stars have lined up. I have zero fouling in these guns with TL bullets. My 10mm pistol in an interesting example. When loaded in 40SW cases, I get smoke coming out of the chamber. With 10mm cases, no smoke. If everything is sealed tight, the lube (Alox, to be specific) seems to combust pretty much completely/cleanly so there's no smoke. You still get the Alox smell, though.

Rifles are another example. No smoke, at all, in any TL rifle load I have ever fired.

Blowbacks and revolvers always make smoke with TL, IME.

[waco]

A 180gr cramer copy of the lyman 311336 & rl19 in the 2450fps range
The lee 160gr 312-160tl tl bullet h335 2680fps

Have a bunch of different powders along with 7 or 8 different bullets to try including the bullet you use.

Nice. Thanks. I've had some luck with the Lee 312-155gr also.

[weeple2000]

So I think I am having some success improving my PC system. This is what I came up with. I have a lot of these take out containers. I keep finding uses for them with reloading and casting.
I did have a few boolits that stuck together end to end. I feel better about culling a couple given the amount of time saved.

236470

[bedbugbilly]

I tumble lube what I cast and for the type of shooting I do, it has always worked out fine. I have purchased some PC boolits though and have really been impressed with them. I guess it all depends how involved a person wants to get and how much room they have to get set up to do PC. With the results I've had with the PC I"ve purchased - I'll buy more for sure and forget about casting/TL for those calibers.

[weeple2000]

You can find a toaster oven secondhand pretty cheap. I held out for a convention model because I heard those were a bit better.