Need Your Advice on a 45-70

[Themoose]

Thinking I want a 45-70 for hunting and informal shooting out to 300 yds...I have a 74 Sharps, but it's weight, my age and eyesight is nudging me to look at something new to the stable... I see that TC, CVA, and Henry all offer single-shots that will accommodate a scope. I don't think H & R are still in business... does any one have personal experience with any of the makes listed above in 45-70 that they could share with me? I see the twist rates seem to have 1:20, but barrel lengths go from 20 to 25". I have or have had both Henry or TC in other models than SS, but have no experience at all with CVA... I may look at Henry lever action, but weight would be ok now, but may present an issue if the LORD keeps me on this earth more than a few more years... I'm thinking that I would want more than a 20" barrel and would prefer to use black powder, but am open to smokeless too.

Thanks in advance for your help

TheMoose

[funigui]

I have the Henry single shot, and a older H&R handi. At 100 yards I could not ask for a more accurate rifle, they are both strong. Able to handle Marlin level loads. The wood is much nicer on the Henry, and has been great.

My only complaint is the trigger could be lighter. It's not terrible, but as a single shot they could have lightened it up for sure but decided against it.

Any direct questions you have on it?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190209/ef86753cbe586be7b7f2a5b58b2a64b1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190209/6453a581c91888adf0a2b38dea81b6b3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190209/bc7bf500855b776d3529791ba902ec3c.jpg

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[NSB]

I have, and have had, several different rifles in 45-70. Weight is an issue as far as carrying the rifle around, but it's an asset when shooting it. I've had three Sharps rifles, two High Walls, an 1886, and one TC Encore. I'd strongly advise you to avoid the TC Encore due to the light weight of the gun. Even the mildest loads in this gun can be a bit much if you're going to do any amount of bench shooting at all. If you think age is a factor, avoid the Sharps due to the difficulty of putting a scope on the gun if and when the time comes. Unless your eyesight is very, very good, even the best sight combos will become a problem as you age. For my money, my absolute favorite 45-70 is my High Wall. It has enough weight to moderate recoil with most loads, has a great trigger right out of the box, and is very, very accurate with numerous loads. It will typically shoot right around 1moa five shot groups at 100 yards, and I shoot Trapdoor level loads that so far have passed through each and every deer I've shot with it regardless of distance or angle. I'd have no problem buying a Henry, but from experience of friends of mine just be prepared to do a trigger job on it as received. That's not a show stopper by any means, the trigger can be slicked up with a minimum amount of investment by a skilled gunsmith. So, depending on what you want to spend I'd recommend either the Win High Wall or the Henry. Good luck with your choice whatever it is.

[Themoose]

Thanks to both of you. Funigui, are you using BP or smokeless, bullet weight?

[Conditor22]

+1 on the hr handi 45-70

[gunauthor]

I have both a handi rifle (45-70) and a CVA Hunter in 450 Bushmaster. Both are great fun, but I think the CVA is built much stouter. It is hard to go wrong with either one.......

[richhodg66]

I like my little H&R. With Trapdoor loads, it doesn't beat you up, good thing considering how light the rifle is. I have a Williams peep sight on mine and it's as accurate as I can shoot iron sights with a rifle like that. Just about as good a woods deer gun as a guy could ask for.

I am intrigued by the CVAs though. They're kinda ugly, but so is the H&R. I think they come with a 25" barrel and are easily scoped. I have a CVA Optima Elite in 7mm-08 and have been pretty impressed by it. If it was me, I'd look real long and hard at those CVA single shots before I made a deal on something else.

[rfd]

i've had a pair if H&R buff classics and their triggers are Hefty ... then i got a 74 sharps with DSTs, then those H&R's got sold off FAST - i don't gun hunt, only interested in BPCR/TR where a good trigger is Important. besides, break open guns are also not good for the tang sights required for long range.

i bought a pair of henry s/s guns and they are far better than any H&R s/s. the henry trigger can easily be adjusted down to near 3# with a simple spring change but not so with the H&R. IMO, everything about the henry is just flat out better than the H&Rs.

[CLAYPOOL]

That is good looking gun and wood..

[EDG]

I have had experience with a dozen or so .45-70s.
The one repeater was a Siamese Mauser. It was accurate with jacketed bullets but it had a 14" twist .458 Win barrel blank and it was not so hot with cast bullets.
All the others were single shots.
The only short single shots I have messed with are #1 and #3 Rugers and the TC Encore. They are very good for a scope and are massively strong. My favorite normal weight rifles are the standard model Browning 1885 single shots. You can mount a scope or a receiver sight on them easily. They are about the right weight, are very strong, easy to handle and accurate.
I have used an H&R Buffalo Classic with the long 34" barrel. Other than the long barrel it is too light for much shooting but it is easy to carry. It is easy to scope or install a receiver sight in the top of the barrel.The H&R triggers also need some work. The H&Rs are only available used now.
Other rifles I have shot a lot are the Pedersoli Billy Dixon model. This is a bit heavy at 10 lbs but accuracy was superb. The Browning 1885 BPCR rifles at 12 lbs are too heavy to carry but are the most accurate 45-70s I have ever shot. The TC Encore is the lightest and would only be suitable with light loads. The stock comb is very high for scope use and is difficult to use with iron sights or a peep.

[rfd]

H&R buff classics are easy to adjust weight via the hollow drilled butt stock. i even used a mercury tube in one. the henry s/s guns also have s large hollowed butt stocks for adjusting gun weight to help mitigate recoil and steady the sights for offhand shooting.

[Themoose]

I just saw that CVS Scout has 1:14 twist. Is that a good thing? Or will it limit choices for optimum accuracy?

[rfd]

I just saw that CVS Scout has 1:14 twist. Is that a good thing? Or will it limit choices for optimum accuracy?

for the .45-70 gov't cartridge? that's a fast twist. most .45-70's for long range are using 1:18 or maybe 1:17 to stabilize 500+ grain bullets or slicks. for under 500 grains, more like the typical 400 grain, 1:20 should be fine and why the henry s/s uses that twist as it's not meant to be a long range gun.

[NSB]

Unless you're going to be shooting very long range (as in competition, like silhouette), you're probably better off with the faster twist....for two reasons. The faster twist does allow lighter bullets to stabilize better (if you call a 300 or 350g bullets light), and those are a lot easier on the shooting end. Even these "lighter bullets" will completely pass through all but the very largest deer when shot at from end to end. My Win 1885 shoots 350g bullets hunting OK, but it definitely shoots 405g and up a lot better. Since I only use the gun for deer hunting and casual group shooting at my personal range, I'd probably be better off shooting lighter bullets. Even at that, the difference isn't great. I'm getting 1moa with 405g bullets at 100 yards and 1.5" with the 350g bullets. I doubt the deer know the difference.

[marlinman93]

I can't think of any situation (light or heavy bullets) where a 1:14" is good for a .45-70. Light bullets will easily stabilize with 1:18" or 1:20".

[KLR]

I have a CVA Hunter; 25 inch barrel, very accurate, excellent trigger. My brother sold it to me and then bought a CVA Scout. It too has a 25 inch barrel, it's very accurate, and has an excellent trigger. It has a stainless steel barrel and a muzzle brake.

[Static line]

My 81 year old cousin has been hunting with a CVA .I believe it is called the scout,for several years now. He has taken deer every year with it.At the bench,it pulls off some pretty amazing groups,most of the time,all touching to withing an 1-1/2" at 100 yards. He doesn't shoot cast though but rather shoots factory,everlution or something like that.His rifle would not chamber my 350 gr. Ranch Dog cast bullets that I shoot in my Marlin Guide Gun.

[Hiwall55]

If you want to shoot BP, definitely stay away from the 14 twist. 20 twist and 350 to 400 grain bullets go together for 150 years.

[Drm50]

I have had a couple H&R 45/70s that I took on trades. They shoot good but have poor triggers. There is much you can do with them in that department. I know my Bro bought one in 22Hornet and we ruined a dozen springs
trying to lighten the pull.

[shaner]

The CVA LINE of single are really nice for a I'll call budget priced rifle .nothing fancy but they work

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[Boogieman]

Ruger #1 , not heavy ,strong, and easy to scope

[Rick R]

I had an H&R Buffalo Classic. Between the trigger, recoil and a wandering zero I couldn’t learn to love it.
Found a T/C Katahdin on the used rack and paid too much for it but it’s a tack driver with my 360gr RD over Varget loads shooting sub 2” groups at 100 yards with a 2.5x scope. Still kicks like a mule with a toothache but just doesn’t seem as obnoxious as the H&R. The 20” barrel does work well in thick woods or the blind. I filled a doe tag with mine last year.

[indian joe]

Unless you're going to be shooting very long range (as in competition, like silhouette), you're probably better off with the faster twist....for two reasons. The faster twist does allow lighter bullets to stabilize better (if you call a 300 or 350g bullets light), and those are a lot easier on the shooting end. Even these "lighter bullets" will completely pass through all but the very largest deer when shot at from end to end. My Win 1885 shoots 350g bullets hunting OK, but it definitely shoots 405g and up a lot better. Since I only use the gun for deer hunting and casual group shooting at my personal range, I'd probably be better off shooting lighter bullets. Even at that, the difference isn't great. I'm getting 1moa with 405g bullets at 100 yards and 1.5" with the 350g bullets. I doubt the deer know the difference.

This sounds back to the front to me - slower twist for lighter boolits - faster twist for heavier boolits was always the accepted story ??????

[Edward]

This sounds back to the front to me - slower twist for lighter boolits - faster twist for heavier boolits was always the accepted story ??????

Think your right about that /my C Sharps 18 twist shoots 500gr ++++ great , and the Marlin 1895 liked 300-350 grain . Or at least my shoulder did :bigsmyl2:

[Jedman]

I have owned several H & R handis and a CVA break action in 45-70 and they both shot very well.
I sold the CVA as I own 7 others in that caliber and I can't warm up to black plastic.
The 45-70 handis have become smokeless muzzleloaders and shoot great with a sabot and 40 cal.
The Henry wold be my first choice now if I were looking to buy a break action 45-70 single shot.

Jedman

[Gunlaker]

I think that 1:14 twist is the standard for the .458 Win Mag. I've heard that the fast twist is not for stabilizing the bullet during flight so much as it's to keep the bullet tracking straight while penetrating through the critter you just shot.

Chris.

[NSB]

This sounds back to the front to me - slower twist for lighter boolits - faster twist for heavier boolits was always the accepted story ??????

I mis-spoke. Yes, the faster twist is for heavier bullets. I was having a "duh" moment. I just went through this myself with a .357max and a 1:20 twist.....won't shoot heavy bullets as well as the lighter ones.

[Conditor22]

Don't buy anything until you look at a marlin guide gun in stainless.

[robg]

What conditor 22 said .got the sbl.

[Themoose]

Well, I jumped in today and bought a H&R Buffalo Classic at our local club's Buy,Sell & Swap Day. It has a few dings on the stock, but looks like it had very little use...I think I got it at a good price.. the trigger is very crisp and I'm guessing about 4#... now I will have to look at the sights...should be easy to put a scope on if I choose that route...I have 3 or 4 Leupolds taken off other rifles that could be used... Thanks to all for your help

[wallacem]

You did good. The BC is an excellent gun. Shoots great and they did have a better trigger. Put a good scope on it and you can do anything with it.

[JSnover]

I do hope your BC is as good as everyone else's. Add a scope or some decent sights, bump the weight up, and if all is well you should have a pretty good gun.
Mine was new in 2008 and I had nothing but trouble with it. Apparently they had some quality issues back then.

[John Boy]

My "El Cheapo" H&R Buffalo Classic is as accurate as the several other 45-70 Sharps & HiWall's. It's a light rifle and felt recoil will be greater than the heavier rifles but it's accuracy can't be beat. First range test with the H&R using Triple 7, at 600yds shot a 600yd - 5 shot group in the 7 ring that was 4.75 x 2.25" with 3 holes that could have covered by a silver dollar

[jednorris]

I have had a few single shot rifles in .45/70 that I shot with Black powder and they were amazingly easy to clean. I would imagine shooting Black Powder in any other actions would cause problems and not be a good idea.

[Thin Man]

Have you looked at ArmsList for your rifle? I just now found (2) H&R handi-rifles at $275 (wood furniture) and $300 (synthetic) in the first 2 pages of their ads. Call up the website, click on "Agree", pick your state of residence, go to "power search", scroll down to select your caliber 45-70 Government, and tap the "search" button. Shop until you find your selection. You will be facing shipping and transfer costs, but that comes with the territory when buying from another state. Good luck.

[country gent]

If you have the sharps and are comfortable with it an option would be to rebarrel it with a lighter contour and or shorter barrel. Most of the weight in a single shot is in the barrel itself. A tapered round or half round barrel 28"-30" would get the most out of loads and probably get the rifle into the 8-9 lb range. drilled and tapped a period style scope can be used. Going this light on the rifle a recoil reducer in the stock might be good.

[Themoose]

I'm now covered with 45-70's for the foreseeable future... have the use of my nephew's 74 Shiloh Sharp's and i bought a H & R Buffalo Classic to play with.. now I need to do some casting, loading and shooting... thanks to all for their input

[rfd]

the buff classic is a good gun, and if the trigger is already at 4# then so much the better. unless you'll be building light smokeless cartridges, i'd suggest filling the butt stock with shot or some other weight and get it's 8# up to a good 10#. williams makes a good peep rear for the H&R guns, so does skinner.

[Warhawk]

I have the Henry single shot, and a older H&R handi. At 100 yards I could not ask for a more accurate rifle, they are both strong. Able to handle Marlin level loads. The wood is much nicer on the Henry, and has been great.

My only complaint is the trigger could be lighter. It's not terrible, but as a single shot they could have lightened it up for sure but decided against it.

Any direct questions you have on it?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190209/ef86753cbe586be7b7f2a5b58b2a64b1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190209/6453a581c91888adf0a2b38dea81b6b3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190209/bc7bf500855b776d3529791ba902ec3c.jpg

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Your Henry rifle is absolutely beautiful.

[rfd]

with a simple but mandatory spring change, the henry is arguably the better value in a modern single shot.