please talk me out of this

[atr]

One of the members here is selling a JM Marlin 30-30 carbine. I am trying to talk myself into not buying this rifle because I already have a Win carbine 30-30.
The Marlin has a micro-grove rifling which I don't know much about. Also I don't know what the significance is of the 'JM' proof.
Is the Marlin more of a rifle than the Win?

thanks
atr

[Nueces]

The JM mark indicates a rifle made by Marlin before the Remington acquisition. Marlins feature side ejection, making them more scope (gag) friendly and they don't dump hot empties down your shirt. The flat Marlin receiver top makes top mounted aperture sights easier (thinking Skinners).

Winchesters are time tested John Browning designs and carry the western cachet of the name and history.

[Engineer1911]

The Marlin will not shoot cast bullets without a whole lot of silliness. On the other hand it will shoot jacketed bullets like gang busters. Years ago I had a 44 Magnum Marlin. My happiest day of ownership was when it went down the road. I got a XP-100 in 223 Rem in trade + $50. Best deal I ever made because I eventually sold that $147 XP for $800. OH HAPPY DAY!

[jaguarxk120]

The Marlin is a much stronger rifle by having a solid receiver. And as said the scope mounting is on to of the receiver.

[Conditor22]

That's tough, I like marlin BUT you have the win. You could use part of the money to get goodies for the win

[Shawlerbrook]

The Marlin is much better if want want to add a scope. I own many of both and like your kids, they all have their good and bad, but I love them all.

[dverna]

I have both....Like the Marlin as I like to use scopes. My M94 was bought as a "truck gun" and I paid $135 at an estate sale or would not own it.

No rational reason for you to add the Marlin unless your M94 is not shooting well, or you want to use a scope.

[trapper9260]

I got 2 Marlins. One is 44mag that I got used and shoot great for me and no problems and also had got a 30-30 new a few years ago and works good for me. I am happy with both. The 44 mag what I shoot in my RH it shoots better in the marlin with the same load also size one up from the RH and had tighter groups All works for me.

[HawkCreek]

The Marlin is a much stronger rifle by having a solid receiver. And as said the scope mounting is on to of the receiver.

No it's not, that a gun myth that just wont seem to die. Marlins are in fact weaker than their Winchester counterparts. Not a lot of difference but weaker all the same.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?6998-Buck-Elliot-s-454-Casull-levergun-test-Part-1

[atr]

No rational reason for you to add the Marlin unless your M94 is not shooting well, or you want to use a scope

You are right there is no "rational" reason as my M94 shoots very well with cast and J's as does my Savage bolt action 30-30 which is very accurate and is scoped.

still though...the temptation is great.

[popper]

Marlin weaker than Win? Huh! Same action used in the 308MX & 444! Really? Yea, fail somewhere in the vicinity of 62,500 to 65,000 psi. Microgroove is fine for cast.
You can find the mfg. date by serial no., older ones appear to be 'better' if treated right. Marlin is a tad heavier, depending on model. If it's a shooter, it's good. It is a used rifle. Marlin doesn't get Win $$. you could get it bored to a bigger bore. Mine was a NIB with scope for 300$. Does what I want.

[dragon813gt]

The Marlin will not shoot cast bullets without a whole lot of silliness.

This is completely false. Your problem most likely came due to dimensional differences between 44 Mag revolvers and rifles. The rifles have a larger bore diameter which necessitates larger diameter bullets. Shooting the wrong diameter bullets will create problems in any gun.

Microgroove barrels like “fatter” bullets. That’s about the only “special” thing required. Size them a thousandth or two larger than normal and the rest is all the same. You may even find it shoots fine w/ the size you’d normally use. Every barrel is different and it’s the only thing that can tell you if what you’re doing is working.

[crash87]

The Marlin will not shoot cast bullets without a whole lot of silliness.
Looks like another, just spreading the myth started so long ago. I beg to differ, as a owner whom, actually shoots cast out of his microgrooved barrels, 357 mag, 35 Reimngton, 375 WCF, and 45/70. Never had to slick any of them up with "silliness".
atr, I do own a number of leverguns, in both makes plus 1 Browning. You may already have a Winchester, that should never mean you cant have another lever, make that one the Marlin.
If you need a reason, you shouldn't, but you will now be able to take two of the finest leverguns and compare them, side by side, but mostly, enjoy them!
crash87

[Texas by God]

Buy once, cry once. The Marlin might give your bolt action a run for its money in accuracy.
Mine does.
My Winchester is for inside 100yds, my Marlin with 4x scope is for beyond that.

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[georgerkahn]

I have a couple Winnies, as well as Marlins. My Marlins are all of the newer vintage -- microgroove barrels, and they shoot cast bullets (one has never seen a jacket) with no difficulty. My main love is two-fold: that the ejection affords a scope mounted directly above the receiver; and, the lever is ever so easily removed for receiver to muzzle cleaning. A decade or so back I heard of a fellow selling pretty much all of his firearms, and by the time I got there only the very pristine (eg, Browning .348) and bottom-of-the-barrel ones remained. I looked at a Marlin 336 with a Tasco scope on it, and it followed me home. Several months later we had a day ducks wouldn't even enjoy -- hi-30s with snow and sleet mixed with drizzle -- but, that was the day for my (visiting) younger son to go hunting with me. More for companionship than anything else, I took the Marlin -- no way was my "good" Winchester going to be subjected to such elements. Murphy Law? We got a short window of opportunity on a 75-yard distant buck -- and, you might guess the rest of this story: That Marlin has become my 1st choice "go-to" hunting rifle. (I later learned the Tasco scope was a very early one, made for the Floridian group who put that corp together, by Redfield -- a remarkably well performing complement)
Re your "predicament" -- from my experience, I see NONE! I'd (if I had the $$$) buy the Marlin in a micro-second!
geo

[Edward]

One of the members here is selling a JM Marlin 30-30 carbine. I am trying to talk myself into not buying this rifle because I already have a Win carbine 30-30.
The Marlin has a micro-grove rifling which I don't know much about. Also I don't know what the significance is of the 'JM' proof.
Is the Marlin more of a rifle than the Win?

thanks
atr

YUP and when you can"t see much throw a scope on it .I have the same in a waffle top ,someone (D+T) it so I shot it scoped accurate but I have several so Jess made it a great shooting 38-55 ! Its still accurate to 200 yds and I have something different to cast for.:
It"s all good :bigsmyl2:

[indian joe]

One of the members here is selling a JM Marlin 30-30 carbine. I am trying to talk myself into not buying this rifle because I already have a Win carbine 30-30.
The Marlin has a micro-grove rifling which I don't know much about. Also I don't know what the significance is of the 'JM' proof.
Is the Marlin more of a rifle than the Win?

thanks
atr

You have a winchester ---if you step DOWN to a marlin you will be disappointed :bigsmyl2:

[sandog]

The Winchester 94 might very well be as strong as the Marlin 336, but.........
The Marlin, has been, and is chambered for such numbers as the .356 Winchester, .375 Winchester, 308 Marlin, .444 Remington and will shoot heavy .45/70 loads without a problem.
When Winchester wanted a rifle to shoot those loads, they had to beef up the 94, as the 94 had previously only been chambered for .25-35, 30/30, .32/40, 32 Special and 38-55. None of those are considered powerhouses.
Winchester felt the 94 needed a redesign to fire the cartridges that the Marlin was capable of firing, so in 1978 they came out with the "Big Bore" 1894, which used a thickened receiver.

I don't think Winchester would have needed to do that if the standard 94 was "stronger than a Marlin 336", as Hawk Creek suggested above.
Who are you gonna believe, a guy named Buck Elliot who maybe ? worked for Freedom Arms and screwed a .454 Casull barrel on some different receivers, or the engineers at Winchester ?

As far as cast bullets in the Microgroove barrels, you'll be fine. Use harder cast bullets that are .002" oversize, and if necessary, a gas check, and you'll get good accuracy.

[Beagle333]

You gotta do it. You just gotta. Everybody's gotta go through a JM marlin 30-30 at some point. And if you don't like it, they hold resale value very well because they don't make em no more. Jump right in there, I say!!! (That's my vote, anyway). :grin:

(Yes, I have a JM marlin AND a Winnie 94.)

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=sandog;4559308]The Winchester 94 might very well be as strong as the Marlin 336, but.........
The Marlin, has been, and is chambered for such numbers as the .356 Winchester, .375 Winchester, 308 Marlin, .444 Remington and will shoot heavy .45/70 loads without a problem.
When Winchester wanted a rifle to shoot those loads, they had to beef up the 94,

Being of the suspicious nature that I am ---I always wondered how much of that beefed up action was marketing blurb (most of it I reckon) and how much was factual from an engineering point

Yes they added metal at the back end around the locking bolt grooves - a nice aesthetic trick and created a "look" that was different- but the reciever walls from there forward remained the same thickness ?? I had a .375 BB94 - it was a nice rifle - well built - and they proly used a better quality steel (or should have). But I never trusted advertising BS and the BB 94 had plenty of that around it.

[PapaG]

Win 92 converted to 357(doesn't count for this discussion), Win 94, older 94 Marlin both in 44 mag AND what looks like similar type barrels, a 336 and a 94 AE both 30-30 plus an original 336 444. All shoot just fine after you discover what they like. 311291 @ .311. 429244gc @ 430. 357 east everything.

[Drm50]

There is more than one issue here. How old is Win 94, if it's not pre 64 the Marlin may worth more. The same with the Marlin JM. Is it pre safety & how old is it. The 336 action is stronger than a 94 Win, get real. The Marlin Micro groove will shoot cast when boolits are sized to its liking. I'm basically a Pre 64.Win guy but I have several
Marlins. The only thing 94Win has on 336 is weight. The Marlins advantage is scope friendly. The rest is BS. If
you are taking 30/30-32sp or 38/55 what difference does it make that Marlin 336 is stronger? None, that's what the Win 94 was built for.

[sghart3578]

I have several Marlin microgroove rifles and I have never had to do anything odd to get them to shoot.

Anyone who has been on this forum for any length of time knows that .002" over bore size is the key.

It's not rocket surgery.

In my 30-30 Texan I load a 170 gr boolit gas checked and sized to .311" over 25 gr of 3031. Through Skinner peeps sights I hit a clay pigeon at 100 yards. What more do you want?

Now, even though I am a Marlin fan I will say this. If your 94 does all you want it to do then for me it would be hard to justify the purchase.

I used to shoot a Winchester 94 and sold it after I started shooting Marlins. It was a late model Ranger. If it had been a pre-64 model like my M70 Featherweight then I would never have parted with it.

Best of luck,


Steve in N CA

[trails4u]

If you feel good about it, then buy it. It really is that simple. I have all kinds of rifles...some shoot good, some shoot terrible, some like jacketed, some like cast. Some are new, most are very, very old. It don't matter. If it makes your feel-good feel good, then just buy it and be happy.

[HawkCreek]

Some of you Marlin fanboys sure are sensitive. Which gun failed first? I wasnt there at the testing but I just sorta figured it was the weaker one... :popcorn:

[Ginsing]

I wonder why people bring up that a marlin will shoot a 444 and powerful 45-70 when they argue it's strength. The lowly 30-30 and 32 special operate at the same chamber pressures as both of those big boys. Besides I thought the comparison was between the 94 and 336. No where should the 1895 be considered in an agument

[jaguarxk120]

Is there room in the gun safe/gun room, yes---buy it!
Do you want it, yes--- buy it.
It is a good buy/price, yes--- buy it
Do you have a Marlin, no---buy it.

[sandog]

Ginseng, the 1895 IS a 336. Exact same receiver, with a bit larger ejection port cut, and a bit larger bolt face to accomodate the larger .45/70 rim.
The 30/30 and .32 Special might operate and near the same pressures as the .444 and .45/70, but what about the .307, 308 MX, .356 Win. and .375 ?
The Marlin has always been able to handle those with out modification or "being beefed up, like the Winchester Big Bore was.

Hawk Creek, yes, I am a Marlin fan boy, and also just as much of a Winchester fan boy.
I dearly love the Winchester 1892 and 1886 actions, and the 1866 and 1873 are neat too.
I have had them all, both original and modern ones. (And a Uberti Henry and a couple of 1895 Winchesters).
I'm not so much of a Winchester 1894 fan though.

That test was interesting, for sure. But as I said above, Winchester engineers felt it was necessary to come up with a strengthened, thicker version of the 94 to handle the Big Bore calibers, whereas the Marlin 336 could handle them just fine as is. I wonder why that was ?

[Texas by God]

I 've used both the Marlin and the Winchester a lot and as stated the Win is lighter and the Marlin is easily scoped. But the fact that the Marlins always outshot the Winchesters is no bs in my experience.

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[Ginsing]

Sandog
It is already a proven fact that a 1920's winchester 94 can tolerate higher pressures than both a 336 and a 94 BB
I'm not here to start an argument I just fail to see how people can argue that a 336 is stronger than a 94 when their is tests conducted to prove otherwise
I'm an owner of of both rifles. Both are good and I'm sure the hell not a 94 fan boy. However I can not turn my back on evidence.

[sandog]

Just curious, why 1894's made in the 20's ?
Wouldn't modern steel be better than nearly 100 year old steel ?

[bikerbeans]

Found the link for the levergun tests. Basically some guys recollection from 20 years earlier of destroying leverguns with hot loads. No data provided means no defensible conclusion. He also stated that his fancy barrel survived without damage. How could he use the same barrel on a 336 he used on a 94 as the threaded shanks are completely different?

Winchester also increased the diameter of the threaded barrel shank for the BB series. A marlin 1895 barrel, post 1971 DOM, has the same shank as a 336 barrel.

BB

[rking22]

The modern one was an AE bersion with the top right side of the reciever weaker due to that design change. Empirical test showed original design 94 to be stronger than the BB94 AE, I suspect the top eject BB94 would have changed that result. But that was not tested. Makes no difference, none held up to the 454 pressures, any difference in "strength" is negiliable. If anything they proved that the 94 did not neex the cosmetic "beafing up" to handle the 375/356/307 rounds. Original 94 lasted longer than the AE version that was chambered for them and held up fine.
Link can be found from post 9 abovd.

[indian joe]

Ginseng, the 1895 IS a 336. Exact same receiver, with a bit larger ejection port cut, and a bit larger bolt face to accomodate the larger .45/70 rim.
The 30/30 and .32 Special might operate and near the same pressures as the .444 and .45/70, but what about the .307, 308 MX, .356 Win. and .375 ?
The Marlin has always been able to handle those with out modification or "being beefed up, like the Winchester Big Bore was.

Hawk Creek, yes, I am a Marlin fan boy, and also just as much of a Winchester fan boy.
I dearly love the Winchester 1892 and 1886 actions, and the 1866 and 1873 are neat too.
I have had them all, both original and modern ones. (And a Uberti Henry and a couple of 1895 Winchesters).
I'm not so much of a Winchester 1894 fan though.

That test was interesting, for sure. But as I said above, Winchester engineers felt it was necessary to come up with a strengthened, thicker version of the 94 to handle the Big Bore calibers, whereas the Marlin 336 could handle them just fine as is. I wonder why that was ?

Sandog.
It was a marketing ploy !!! The engineering part of this "beef up" never made sense - how would the action be strengthened when the side walls are left the same dimension as the original 94? and only some extra metal left around the locking bolt area ? ----some evidence for this ?? the more rapid failure of the angle eject model as compared to a top eject.

The Marlin vs winchester part of this argument is personal preference stuff - doesnt mean zip - want to use a scope? - get a marlin ................want the better handling and lighter weight of a true saddle gun ? - get the winchester.
I dont like marlins - thats a personal choice - my choice - got nothing to do with anything except I dont like marlins and I do like winchesters ------ I also dont particluarly care who or where the "winchester" is made since the tru blue winchester ceased to be, half a lifetime ago.
First they ran the gun quality down, then they ran the company bankrupt, and from the mid 1980's (a WAG stab in the dark date!) somebody else, someplace else has been making winchesters. I dont care - the rossis are good guns, the mirokus are good guns, the ubertis are good guns, chiappas are good guns .....ya gota wonder though -- who was the fool running winchester that gave all that market away to a bunch of foreigners? and apart from the rossi these are not cheap guns.

[rking22]

Back on topic, do you really expect a bunch of enablers to dissuade you from another rifle:bigsmyl2:
Go for it, just dont over pay. If it turns out it's not down your alley, well sell it and you will have another experience in the books! Never know, might be a treasure, don't wanna miss out...

[crankycalico]

not scientific testing at all. no idea what was used in the rifles as far as ammunition went.

its not hard to assume people would assume receiver strength based on chamber pressure. In a lever action you have to consider the toggle mechanism, and the reduction of strength to something called "bolt thrust".

And what was the ammo loaded to pressure wise? no transducer hooked up, no validity to it.
Sort of like saying a 200 grain charge of black powder under 3 squares of toilet paper is more powerful then a 60 grain charge of black powder with a .45 caliber round ball because the BOOM is louder..

[samari46]

I had a gunsmith friend happily show me a 1894 winchester he had reworked to the 458x2". Cut down just about any magnum case neck up to 45 caliber and off he went.Someone broke into his apartment and stole it. Then he went to work for the famingdale company on long island NY where they made the first sharps rifles. I was in a machine shop supply house on Long Island and brought a 1898 krag so they could tell me what the threads were on the trigger guard screws. The boss was a nice guy and asked me to come see his office. on a gun rack were 5 of the finest sharps rifles anyone would drool over. Wolfgang Droge was running the farmingdale plant and when he needed tools or supplies would take one of his fancy sharps and used them as money. Then he ended up in montana setting up the assembly line. Eventually he came back to long island and was the gunsmith for Leslie Edelman who had two stores in his name. Fred had a massive heart attack and was gone before EMS could get to him. Frank

[sukivel]

You should buy the Marlin and have it immediately sent off for a rebarrel in something .338 or. .35 caliber.

.35-30 sounds cool...until you go to buy dies...


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[dragon813gt]

No point in having it rebarreled. JES can rebore it to 356 Winchester. Mine feeds converted 308, or 358 Win, cases w/ no issues. Nothing wrong w/ a 30-30 but a 35 caliber Marlin is more better.

[RED BEAR]

I don't know why people keep saying you can't shoot cast bullets in a mico grove barrels. My 444 marlin shoots them just as good as jacketed. If you mean by a lot of silliness you mean hard cast and sizeing slightly larger than for 44 mag well i guess so.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Skip the 30-30 and get a 357.

[ANick57]

Back on topic, do you really expect a bunch of enablers to dissuade you from another rifle:bigsmyl2:
Go for it, just dont over pay. If it turns out it's not down your alley, well sell it and you will have another experience in the books! Never know, might be a treasure, don't wanna miss out...

Winner!!! :)

I'm assuming that rifle is long since bought and sighted in?

Nick

[sukivel]

No point in having it rebarreled. JES can rebore it to 356 Winchester. Mine feeds converted 308, or 358 Win, cases w/ no issues. Nothing wrong w/ a 30-30 but a 35 caliber Marlin is more better.

That’s what I meant...


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