Cast bullets for a 223 AR-15?

[mudygmc]

Hey guys I'm looking for info on cast bullets in an AR-15. My sister is starting to get more involved in shooting. She,has a few guns now and we are building her an AR at the moment. She can shoot great off a bench. What I am looking to do is get her shooting off hand kneeling sitting and more hunting type rests. We have a range in the yard from 20-250yds with steel targets. We usually dont shoot rifles any closer than 100yds. Id like to have her start at 20yds and work her way out as her skill progresses. Im not really sure about shooting jacketed rifle bullets at steel that close. I think cast would ve the way to go to save on target wear and ricochet. I have zero experience with cast bullets in a small bore rifle. I looked around the web a bit but didnt see any 22cal cast bullets anywhere. Id like to try some before I spend the money on molds and sizers. If anybody has any info or could point me in the right direction that would be awesome. I appreciate any info.

Thanks,
Adam

[Hamish]

Post a "Want to Buy" here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?49-The-Boolit-Exchange

To educate yourself:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/google.php?cx=partner-pub-6216953551359885%3A1942134700&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=AR+223&sa.x=0&sa.y=0&siteurl=castboolits.gunloads.com%2Fshowthread.php% 3F375255-Cast-bullets-for-a-223-AR-15%26p%3D4556744%23post4556744&ref=castboolits.gunloads.com%2Fforum.php&ss=3515j5104621j6

[sigep1764]

What twist is the AR's barrel? The more twist, the longer/heavier boolit will be needed. If you had a 1/7 twist, you might be disappointed with a 50 or 55 grain boolit. This info could help you on the path of success!

[mudygmc]

I have a 1-8 I plan to have her shoot until we get hers built. Pretty sure hers will be 1-8 also. Thinking something in the 70gr range will be best.

[Harter66]

I've had good success with H322 and the NOE 225-55 . It casts @62 gr . It was fine up to around 2050 fps in the 1-8s . I'd like to have a 225-80 for those but as of yet I haven't made that jump .
I'd offer to send you some but everything is packed away ....

[flyingmonkey35]

Lots and lots of posts on this topic on the site.

Its doable. Watch elvis ammo on YouTube. He has a recipe that works or his gun.

If all your shooting is steel and don't care about accuracy they work.

If you are looking for moa rounds forgetabotit.



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[mudygmc]

I did a pile of searching on the web. Seems the guys who figure it out or luck into a magic load. Have great success with the cast bullets. I dont feel id have the time needed to go through the journey of casting the small little bullets. I did find some production 224 cast bullets but they were lighter (50gr the heaviest) than id like to run. I think I will just angle my steel a bit more and run my 55gr sp bulk bullets. If I free up more time in the future I will probably give this a second look. I appreciate any info you guys gave. I just never though production cast bullets would be so hard to find in 224cal.

[upnorthwis]

Good idea to go with bulk 55 gr. SP. I got cast to work in my AR's (2-1/2" at 100) but the end result wasn't worth it. Even though I was shooting hundreds of rounds in 3-gun the expense and time put into loading them wasn't worth the effort. Worst thing for me was not getting my brass back because the next shooter is ready to go.

[sukivel]

I cast for .223 and have decided it’s easier and more reliably accurate to buy cheap steel cased ammo for practice or plinking with an ar15.

Bolt gun or single shot...different story...


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[mudygmc]

I've never really looked, but never thought 22cal cast bullets would be non-existent. If I knew they would work and had more time. I'd go the cast route. For the difficulty people are having and the volume we shoot. It wouldn't be worth me trying to cast. Just thought it would be a little safer for steel under 100yds. I am going to modify my target mounts and put the plates at a bit more angle. Figured it would be worth a look if there was a mahic combo that worked on the cheap.

[sureYnot]

I cast for my AR in 223. 62gn PB, no lube groove. Pc'd. Good enough to shoot squirrels in the head. And can't complain about <$0.06/rd.

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[Tripplebeards]

It’s hard to go wrong with a 150 loaded federal bulk rounds at Walmart for $34. No work, just pull the trigger. I load 60 grain vmax with 25 grains of benchmark. It shoots .3” groups at 200 yards out of my POF.

[Wheelgun]

I used the Lee Bator molds. The old round nose and the newer rcbs lookalike. I used them with LLA, White Labels carnauba red and powder coated. All three seemed to work fine. I didn’t really test for accuracy, consistently hitting 4” & 6” plates at 75yrd was all I did. I didn’t spend much time on it, buying bulk was easier lol.

I had good function and no leading. I remember I used BL-C(2) and Reloader 7, don’t remember the loads. I only remember that I started at about 10% lower than starting loads and went up till I got 100% function, around starting loads if I remember right.

I ran them in a Rock River M4, a Ruger Mini-14 and a Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle.

[Tripplebeards]

IMO I would cast for a bolt action or single shot in 223 but wouldn’t waste my time on something that I’m going to dump mag fulls in seconds time of boolits that took me a lot of time to make. Also no matter how great your craftsmanship is I would still have the fear of heating up my barrel to get leading at some point. It’s a no go ever for me in an AR there’s just way too many cheap ammo option out there that you don’t have to worry about leading your barrel. On the other end, if it’s a cheap, junky AR you bought fit around or under $500 who cares. Just buy another cheap barrel and gas tube when it fails or leads up. I won’t take the chance in my POF or AR10’s. The guys here have obviously got cast to work in their autos but I wouldn’t take the chance when I can buy or load J words for not much more and are way more accurate as they have all stated.

[dverna]

Monmouth, a vendor here, had 6000 Hornady 55 gr SP at a very good price. Check it out. I paid $420 shipped a while back. Plus these will work better on steel...less chance of bouncing off.

I bought the NATO mold to make .22 cal bullets but it sits unused. My time is more valuable than trying to save $.04 a bullet and wind up with poor performance.

BTW, think about using a .22 for less than 100 yard training. Much cheaper and no reloading needed. Easy to get .22's for $.04 a shot now.

[Hamish]

IMO I would cast for a bolt action or single shot in 223 but wouldn’t waste my time on something that I’m going to dump mag fulls in seconds time of boolits that took me a lot of time to make. Also no matter how great your craftsmanship is I would still have the fear of heating up my barrel to get leading at some point. It’s a no go ever for me in an AR there’s just way too many cheap ammo option out there that you don’t have to worry about leading your barrel. On the other end, if it’s a cheap, junky AR you bought fit around or under $500 who cares. Just buy another cheap barrel and gas tube when it fails or leads up. I won’t take the chance in my POF or AR10’s. The guys here have obviously got cast to work in their autos but I wouldn’t take the chance when I can buy or load J words for not much more and are way more accurate as they have all stated.

If you don't want to shoot cast in an AR, that's completely up to you, but cast in an AR is not that hard given a little homework on bullet and lube choice.

A lot of good folks have spent a lot of time and money to document the work here. That's the entire point of this forum, that ANY firearm can be made to work correctly, accurately, and long term using cast bullets.

[Black Powder Bill]

A caster in Augusta Ga GT Bullets built his son a AR platform as close to the old M16 as possible in semi-auto. He loaded up some cast that IMO shocked me. Off the bench front rest rear rest was me. I hit a steel gong at 400 yards not once, but twice. 2 shots 2 hits.

As mentioned earlier lots of info here. I have not worked up a good load for my 223 CZ yet. They are OK but not like George's @ GT Bullets.

[RogerDat]

I have had good luck with the NOE .224 70 grain mold cast from Lyman #2, gas checked, then PC, then sized. Loaded over a pretty full case of Varget.
Shot in a fast twist mini-14. Different autoloader mechanism than your AR but no leading is no leading. No port fouling is no port fouling.

It is time consuming to cast, gas check and PC bullets in volumes sufficient for auto loaders. How practical that is somewhat depends on how you shoot. The OP described from a rest target shooting. Not going to burn through ammo doing that irrespective of the magazine capacity. Spray and blast target shooting might be a good time for the cheap steel case stuff or a different value calculation to the casting to buying question. How often you will shoot and how many you will shoot sort of determine your casting, reloading time investment. For me some free time after work spread over a few weeks yields hundreds of rounds I can use during warmer months. Bolt gun or auto loader most target shooting will be at about the same rate... but not all, a little rock and roll is a nice change of pace.

The 70 grains bullets that are accurate for that rifle with that twist are expensive to buy. I also always like knowing I can make my own if desired for whatever I might want to load for. I will say more cavities in the mold are good thing. Four or five cavity version of molds not the two or three cavity models. Really it is a whole lot easier to relax while one of the kids or grand kids burns through a pile of ammo that didn't cost me big money per round, this is the other reason for the cast reloads. I can shoot it because I can afford it. I watch less TV and make more ammo.

[Old Coot]

Why don't you just teach her to position shoot (offhand, sitting, kneeling) with a 22 rim fire, and then go to the AR Platform for a 100 yds and beyond?

[davidheart]

Why don't you just teach her to position shoot (offhand, sitting, kneeling) with a 22 rim fire, and then go to the AR Platform for a 100 yds and beyond?

I might be able to answer this as I'm going through a similar experience with my 8 year old daughter. The AR has an adjustable length of pull which fits her small stature better. Also, I reload 223 so it's almost as cheap as 22lr. Finally, the AR gives my daughter a feeling the 10/22 can't accomplish.

I took my daughter to shoot our 10/22 at 25 yards and she simply couldn't enjoy it. But now she won't stop asking to shoot steel plates with the AR at 100 yards. What's more enjoyable in her mind?

Instead of telling someone they can't shoot cast in 223, on this forum we should help them develop the most precise load possible.

[sukivel]

Instead of telling someone they can't shoot cast in 223, on this forum we should help them develop the most precise load possible.

I agree, but won’t do it anymore. I load a NOE 22-55 gc with 19 grains of H335 for my AR. I tested my best looking 5 rounds against 5 rnds of Tulammo and the cast was about a 2“ bigger group at 100 yards from a lead sled.

They are too finicky and take too much time to deal with in an AR, IMO, unless it’s zombie time...


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[sureYnot]

I agree, but won’t do it anymore. I load a NOE 22-55 gc with 19 grains of H335 for my AR. I tested my best looking 5 rounds against 5 rnds of Tulammo and the cast was about a 2“ bigger group at 100 yards from a lead sled.

They are too finicky and take too much time to deal with in an AR, IMO, unless it’s zombie time...


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkJust because you can't make good boolits doesn't mean nobody else should make the effort.

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[JBinMN]

I am going to buy a mold because I want to try to use them.

I am willing to have the fun of casting & trying them out for an experiment, and if it works for me that is even better.

I can always buy more condomed ones later, if it doesn't work out well.

[sukivel]

Just because you can't make good boolits doesn't mean nobody else should make the effort.

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I never stated they shouldn’t try...or did I state I could not make good bullets. This is a forum where one shares experiences. That was mine. Re-read the post...


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[gnostic]

Has anyone shot cast bullets from a bolt, or single shot. One of my many theories is, the gas port in the AR's barrel erodes, or otherwise damages the cast bullet before it leaves the muzzle. I've been tempted to try cast bullets in my XP-100, to see what the accuracy would be like. The reason I haven't tried cast in the XP is the twist is too slow for the available bullet molds.

[parkerhale1200]

In my ar15 (dpms) i have very good results at 100 yards ~2 inch on a good day.
Military sight and in the prone position.
Rcbs mold, sized to .225, loaded with d060 15,8gr.
No fouling, no leading, only the occasional oil after 500 shots. 6000+ rounds done and still no problem.

[parkerhale1200]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?156326-AR-15-500-Round-Cast-Bullet-Test

I hope the link works

[RogerDat]

That link worked. Excellent example of how what "everyone knows" vs. "I just did it" information. Feeding, accuracy, leading & fouling all addressed. In short the bumble bee can be demonstrated to fly therefore the well known scientific fact that bumble bees can't fly becomes moot.

I think the Lee mold opens up possibility of casting for .223 at a low price point, but if I had a fast or slow twist to accommodate and wanted to maximize accuracy I would look into NOE Molds or maybe Accurate Molds to get a weight that works well. My 1:7 twist is "ok" with the typical 55 grain but loves the heavier cast 70 grain. Or the store bought 72 grain. Store bought is expensive for those weight bullets. Last "deal" I saw on those were Red Army range packs and those were still pretty expensive in the heavier weight bullets.

it can be done, is it worth it? Up to you to decide. How much time to save you how much money over cheap store bought? Is accuracy enhanced? Do you value being able to "roll your own" if need be? I can buy 12 gauge bulk boxes at Walmart for not much over making it myself. I value being able to make it when I need it. I value custom loads for specific uses. Saving some money on almost every round, with greater savings on the custom or non-standard rounds.

So yes try it, expect that you might try some approaches that don't work well on your way to figuring out a process and load that does work well.

[parkerhale1200]

I cast now for over 34 years and to speak frankly, i was a little hesitating to cast for my 223.
The wish was there, but the: what if{worst case} what if {best case} what if...what if.
A gastube is what? 20$ {worst case}, had fun YES.
BUT
At 0.06$ a shot instead a full dollar for a shot, including decent accuracy it become {best case}

Why the heck i sit back and wait for a post of some one like oldgsm, cant thank him enough.
The results on target are better then "OUR" cheapest 12 gauge bulk stuff, and way cheaper.
You will be lucky if you hit the target with those buggers at 100 meters.
My casts for the 223 are the same and even better as our "normal" commercial bought at the target, it saves you only 0.70$ a shot.

The Lee molds are in my experience not very good for casting good boolits, they fly all over the target.
They are very good to start with casting or try something, to tell you the truth, i would not use Lee boolits in a semi.
It can be done?,i guess so.

NOE or Accurate molds....i am drooling already, its hard to get them at this side of the ocean.
+1 most 1:7 twist barrels like heavier casts, i am planning to buy one, before i can cast with it, the price has tripled.

For me is "roll your own" better, especially when you grow your own tobacco....euh i mean cast...

Yes try...buy a NOE mold ~70 grain, if you don't succeed, you can sell me the mold(no 26 or 27 in my collection) for new price ex shipment!
One problem.....time.....to make those buggers, and the ar shoots so fast.
Dont forget to let them rest 3 months after casting, so they can cure.
Best and good luck

[parkerhale1200]

242155

Was windy at that time.

This weekend i will post photo's of the ar's guts with no cleaning after 6000+ shots fired, only some oil/grease was giving every 500 shots

[cmdrted]

I've used the noe 69/70 gr, linotype alloy, g/c and white label lube for 2000 fps sized .225. a universal start is (18 grains) of appropriate ar powder, h335, aa 2230, rx7,ar comp. those powders and tweak up or down for function then for accuracy. I have to tell you honest off the bench accuracy with 1-8 to 1-9 twist ars is a little less than 2 moa. occasionally i'll get a group 1 1/2 inch at 100 yards but more in the 2" or less. I started casting for this cartridge in anticipation of some kind of political hockey pokey banning or limiting jacket bullets. usually I just use fmj bts.

[parkerhale1200]

My lube is 50/50.
I clean my beeswax and add lithium based grease. 50%-50% ratio. at volume that is.
My lead for the ar is the same as for my 44mag and 308, range lead with extra antimony, if the flow goes bad i add more tin.
Overall the ones that make it to be a boolit are at 18-20 bhn, with no leading or whatsoever.

@JBinMn....What toke you so long....looking forward to see your results.

At an indoor range below 2 inch is normal if you can cast and now your measurements, prone shooting and with fixed iron site.

Good luck, also from you i would like to see some results.
To many people are telling i can't be done because the gaspipe, or whatever....bullocks....

Here on the forum we guide people indeed how to get the best out of a cast!
But its also to your effort and time and knowledge.
Sometime it takes some time to find the right answer.
And when you find it...


Best

[parkerhale1200]

Side note: my lithium grease is for big rigs and cranes not car industry. Hydraulic and such, i thought.
Apparently there is a difference?
I really don't know.
Anyway its free for me and it works for me, sorry gents and gals.:cbpour:

[JBinMN]

My lube is 50/50.
I clean my beeswax and add lithium based grease. 50%-50% ratio. at volume that is.
My lead for the ar is the same as for my 44mag and 308, range lead with extra antimony, if the flow goes bad i add more tin.
Overall the ones that make it to be a boolit are at 18-20 bhn, with no leading or whatsoever.

@JBinMn....What toke you so long....looking forward to see your results.

At an indoor range below 2 inch is normal if you can cast and now your measurements, prone shooting and with fixed iron site.

Good luck, also from you i would like to see some results.
To many people are telling i can't be done because the gaspipe, or whatever....bullocks....

Here on the forum we guide people indeed how to get the best out of a cast!
But its also to your effort and time and knowledge.
Sometime it takes some time to find the right answer.
And when you find it...


Best

I just cast up 500 or so last week with a Lee GC225-55 RF mold I bought since I posted earlier in Feb..

I just need to get around to doing the rest of the process & that involves "emptying" some factory .223/5.56 rounds to make the empty cases to reload.
;)

I will try to post up results when I get to it.
:)

Thanks for the asking about it!
:)

:drinks:

[jimb16]

I've been thinking about trying cast in my AR. I was planning on straight lino since I have an abundance of it. I get great accuracy from my .222 Rem with cast (.6 in at 50 yards) so I figure I should be able to get at least acceptable accuracy from the AR. This has been an interesting thread. Now I've got some ideas on what I think might work.

[sledgehammer001]

Not to stir the pot, so to speak, but to promote information as 'I have done'....
I shoot an AR15 (Del-Ton) in M4 configuration: 16" barrel w1-8 twist, flat-top w/rail, iron flip-ups w/2 mil red dot, etc.
As I cast for everything I own, I figured I could find a way to feed my AR cast also.
I own both a Lee Bator mold and a Lee 225-55 GC mold. My AR shoots both equally decent, over the same powder charge only adjusting the C.OAL. These ARE GC'd and PC'd boolits.
After experimenting, I settled on a "jacketed" powder and worked up using ladder loading. I have no chrony but they seem to be right at 2000 fps, with perfect function and zero gas port issues. My boolits leave clean round holes and are as accurate as my sore eyes can see at 100yds.
It can be done. I've burned most of a pound of powder, but it works.
Have patience, use perfect boolits(NO flaws) and enjoy the trip!

[Patrick L]

Everyone is entitled to decide for themselves what they want to load, shoot, etc. Just because you think there are cheaper, easier, whatever, doesn't mean someone else might be doing something for the pure pleasure of doing it.

Specific to this thread, so far I have not had success shooting cast out of my AR. I would like to, but it hasn't happened yet. I have searched a lot of threads, tried a lot of what has worked for others, but to no avail. I'll continue to play though. And while I know it's not ever going to be the cheapest, or most accurate, or most efficient, etc. I will do it just for the satisfaction of accomplishing something.

I did the same thing with the Garand about 10-12 years ago. It was a long frustrating journey, but I figured it out. And nowadays I rarely shoot cast out of the M1, but when I want to I know I can.

[RU shooter]

If you go down this road a older A1 or SP 1:12 twist barrel is your friend ,yes it can be done with the new faster twist barrels but success will be found much easier with a slower twist barrel .

[parkerhale1200]

Side note: my lithium grease is for big rigs and cranes not car industry. Hydraulic and such, i thought.
Apparently there is a difference?
I really don't know.
Anyway its free for me and it works for me, sorry gents and gals.:cbpour:

[parkerhale1200]

@sledgehammer.
So you know you're way with measurements!
Full jacket loads, yes it can be done.
I do it also, for all my guns

[parkerhale1200]

@patrick l, try to find what you're gun likes.
Some are searching for years......some are lucky.
But if you know how to cast and know the interior of your gun, you can find it quick.
Build up a ladder, several times, because the human factor is the most important one.
It is even important as you're casting "speed" with one, up to 3 molds.
Even if you are 1 second out,with drop or fill, you will have a flyer.
Make sure you got a steady pass and steady alloy and mold temp.
Wait three months to measure the final bhn and weight segregate them.

Set the depth of your boolit to the depth of you're chamber, so that the rifling just scratches the surface of you lead boolit.
This with the same weight and hardness will give you good results.
Dont make them to hard aka 30 bhn or to soft 13 bhn.
Can it be done....Yes up to 45bhn and as low as you dare, i would dare to go as low as 12, and i would not advise it.

Now make several times a ladder and shoot it the same way over and over.
From you're breathing to you're heartbeat and trigger discipline, up to you're last blink of you're eye before you pull the trigger.
Don't pull the trigger, tease it, feel it
This above will save you 10 years.
I mean this positive not negative!
For myself i have 21! checkpoints (or whatever you call them)before i release one single shot at 300 yards/330 meter or 660 yards/600 meters

One more thing, for semi auto, the boolit must not deform while loading.
Maybe you need a shorter or longer nose....****et, i forgot the translation...?ogive? or something?
The curve?

The twist is also an important factor, one likes more lighter boolits and the other one more heavier.

I hope this will clear up a bit in the fog, just my two cents

[parkerhale1200]

+1 on RU.
A older barrel is more easy to work with
Why?
They are more "polished" (or read worn out) then the new ones, the new ones are more like sandpaper on you're little bugger.
You must polish of you will a new barrel to make it convenient for lead.

[parkerhale1200]

ofcourse it FUN

@JBinMN, i am looking forward to see your results, progress and endeavors!

So enough for the rambling right now.......

[gnostic]

I agree, but won’t do it anymore. I load a NOE 22-55 gc with 19 grains of H335 for my AR. I tested my best looking 5 rounds against 5 rnds of Tulammo and the cast was about a 2“ bigger group at 100 yards from a lead sled.

They are too finicky and take too much time to deal with in an AR, IMO, unless it’s zombie time...


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I'm with you, the AR15 hates lead bullets, why bust your hump with a four cent primer, three cent gas check and twenty grains of H335 or Varget to shoot a 3 inch group? I bite the bullet and buy Hornady SP's for nine cents each and with a 12X scope, my AR shoots .75" groups. Nobody seems to be able to make the magic happen with the AR and cast bullets. Otto Von Bismarck said, 'Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others.'

[JBinMN]

I am trying to say the below, as civilly & politely as I am able and get my point across.

Consider this....

If no one experiments on their own to find a better way to do things, we would all be walking, riding horse, & using them to pull carts & such instead of using cars, trains, airplanes or even space flight.

We'd be cooking over open fires instead of on stoves or using microwave ovens.

You would be wearing furs or grass, instead of clothing made from cotton, polyester, etc.

As well, we would probably be talking in person, instead of the internet, and debating the difference between clubs, spears & bows/arrows, how to make them & improve them.

If medical folks had not tried to improve things we all would not be as healthy as many folks are. Many would be miserable in their lives, or dead early in life due to not having the knowledge gained by trying different things to solve problems.

Of course, we could have those who will say, "That will never happen!", or "It did not work for me, so it won't work for you.". There have been multitudes of those types over the history of man.

It was not different when men wanted to see what was on the other side of a mountain or an ocean. There were folks who tried to discourage those exploring folks too.

If inventors & folks who wanted to explore different things on their own, actually listened to the "nay sayers", we would be in a pretty bad way, IMO.

I , for one, would appreciate the "nay sayers" to keep their comments to themselves, since they have Nothing to add on how to use cast boolits in AR platform firearms. They are only about "Negativity", "Failure", and/or "Discouraging others", rather than supporting folks in their endeavors to accomplish goals.

Here we are, "trying to share recipes" on something, and folks are walking in and spitting in the mix.

Please go find something else to do here at CB.GL Forum, rather than try to discourage those of us in what we wish to do.

How about starting a topic yourselves & just talk about how you couldn't get your firearms to shoot to cast boolits to your satisfaction, so you gave up on it & leave those of us who wish to try it ourselves, to our own discussion.

Thanks! if you can actually do it..
:)

P.S. - Bismark was a "politician" & not someone who was an inventor, nor explorer. I would think he was probably talking about politics & not other more scientific endeavors.
Think about the folks thruout human history who accomplished things no one else had done before, or gave up on as "impossible".
Do you think he would have said the same thing to DaVinci, Pasteur, C. Columbus, Leif Erickson, etc, or any other persons throughout history who have made improvements on human lives or their doings? Should Col. Harrison not done any experiments with firearms? How about Sam Colt? Where would we be without John Browning, or even Eugene Stoner, since this topic is about AR 15s?
( Those above questions are Rhetorical one, for folks to think about. ;) )

[Conditor22]

Cast works fine and economical. No GC avg 1400 fps

https://i.imgur.com/z0jiJaJ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Ofe9u8U.jpg

Couldn't see the holes so changed point of aim

https://i.imgur.com/UnimtDc.jpg?1

[sukivel]

I am trying to say the below, as civilly & politely as I am able and get my point across.

Consider this....

If no one experiments on their own to find a better way to do things, we would all be walking, riding horse, & using them to pull carts & such instead of using cars, trains, airplanes or even space flight.

We'd be cooking over open fires instead of on stoves or using microwave ovens.

You would be wearing furs or grass, instead of clothing made from cotton, polyester, etc.

As well, we would probably be talking in person, instead of the internet, and debating the difference between clubs, spears & bows/arrows, how to make them & improve them.

If medical folks had not tried to improve things we all would not be as healthy as many folks are. Many would be miserable in their lives, or dead early in life due to not having the knowledge gained by trying different things to solve problems.

Of course, we could have those who will say, "That will never happen!", or "It did not work for me, so it won't work for you.". There have been multitudes of those types over the history of man.

It was not different when men wanted to see what was on the other side of a mountain or an ocean. There were folks who tried to discourage those exploring folks too.

If inventors & folks who wanted to explore different things on their own, actually listened to the "nay sayers", we would be in a pretty bad way, IMO.

I , for one, would appreciate the "nay sayers" to keep their comments to themselves, since they have Nothing to add on how to use cast boolits in AR platform firearms. They are only about "Negativity", "Failure", and/or "Discouraging others", rather than supporting folks in their endeavors to accomplish goals.

Here we are, "trying to share recipes" on something, and folks are walking in and spitting in the mix.

Please go find something else to do here at CB.GL Forum, rather than try to discourage those of us in what we wish to do.

How about starting a topic yourselves & just talk about how you couldn't get your firearms to shoot to cast boolits to your satisfaction, so you gave up on it & leave those of us who wish to try it ourselves, to our own discussion.

Thanks! if you can actually do it..
:)

P.S. - Bismark was a "politician" & not someone who was an inventor, nor explorer. I would think he was probably talking about politics & not other more scientific endeavors.
Think about the folks thruout human history who accomplished things no one else had done before, or gave up on as "impossible".
Do you think he would have said the same thing to DaVinci, Pasteur, C. Columbus, Leif Erickson, etc, or any other persons throughout history who have made improvements on human lives or their doings? Should Col. Harrison not done any experiments with firearms? How about Sam Colt? Where would we be without John Browning, or even Eugene Stoner, since this topic is about AR 15s?
( Those above questions are Rhetorical one, for folks to think about. ;) )

Wise words to live by...


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[parkerhale1200]

JBinMN....+10

[PatriotReloader]

Well said! JBinMN

[Lloyd Smale]

want to shoot cast in your ar with a lot less headache. Buy a 300 bo barrel or upper.

[sureYnot]

300 BLK comes with it's own set of problems. I only have two guns that gave me no attitude when I started casting for them. An auto ordinance .45acp and a Glock 42. Think I got lucky with the Glock, from what I've read.
Nothing worth doing is ever easy. -Zed

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[Lloyd Smale]

Ive got two blackouts both cheap psa guns one a 16 and one an 8.5 and neither miss a beat with rcbs 130 spitzer gas checks and shoot that bullet into 2moa or less. cast them hard and pc them an they run like butter through my guns. I played for a whole summer with 22 cal bullets in the ars and if I got minute of paper at a 100 yards it was about a celebration and many groups wouldn't do minute of paper at 50.

[Old Coot]

Cast bullets have successfully been loaded and fired with 100% function in: M1 garand, M1Carbine, Remington 760, M!A. Why not in an AR? All of the above are gas operated mechanisms, and no lead fouls them; why should the AR be any different?

The people who keep chanting that it won't work remind me of a rather ignorant and loud mouthed LA county Deputy who stated that you could not shoot wood shafted arrows from a compound bow. When I told him that I had don so; he screamed at me that it could not be done. He was so adamant and obnoxious that I never got the chance to tell him how it had been successfully done.
Most of -if not all of- these folks have never tried anything themselves. They only slavishly and foolishly repeat the words of other loud mouthed opinionated fools. Good Luck Brodie

[3leggedturtle]

A gentleman over on the Cast Bullet Association has a write up on an AR he made to shoot 55gr boolits reliably and accurately. Look it up and enjoy his article. Forumn is:AR Platform, titled: Designated cast AR15

[Hamish]

There was a very large amount of work done on this subject, on THIS forum, 2011'ish-2015/6. It's not that hard. There are a whole BUNCH of CB members who are versed on this subject, but like me, they've gotten frustrated with "you can't do that", "what's the point", "smaller is too hard", and lack of research by "gimme now".

Use the Search function, spend an hour, get the basics on cast in a semi auto.

Again, it's not that hard.

[pacomdiver]

anyone try the noe 227-79-sp in an AR? i just bought this mold

[sigep1764]

Nope, but I have the MP 227-75 NATO mold. Seating to magazine length, the gas check sits below the case neck a bit. So far, I like it around 2000fps with W748.

[leadman]

High velocity and accuracy can be done in the AR-15. I did it a few years back when I was testing Hi-Tek coating shortly after it came out here.
I found linotype was the easiest alloy to cast good boolits without too many rejects. H4895 proved to be a good powder and the combo led to around 2,700 fps with less than 2" accuracy at 100 yards out of my Stag Arms 1-8.
I did heat treat some lino boolits and did a water quenching also between Hi-Tek coats. I pushed these boolits to over 3,600 fps (which I do not recommend). Accuracy fell off after about 5 rounds with debris left in the barrel that brushed out easily. Accuracy IIRC was around 2/1/2" to 3".
If I was going to start someone out shooting the AR-15 at close steel plates I think I might try the 22 cal. 40 0r 45gr jacketed bullets for the 22 Hornet. These would have to be reduced loads but are very soft so they might lessen the chance of a ricochet.
Casting, installing gas checks and lubing 22 cal. boolits to me is a maddening process. If you are going to try it use Hornady gas checks as they install much easier and accuracy in my testing was better.

[26Charlie]

I didn’t have an AR until this year but had bought a quantity of Vihta Vouhri NN-133 powder, which is supposed to be the cat’s meow for it. It worked nicely for jacketed bullets, so I tried a cast load today of the RCBS 22-055 FNGC with 16.0 gr. NN-133, CCI #41 primer. It would eject, but did not have enough juice to push the bolt back to pick up another round. I shot 5 with iron sights and 5 with green dot, and the groups overlaid each other at 25 yards, a 1.7” ten-shot group. Bore is shiny, a few unturned powder grains. Now to up the charge to get it to function properly.
I will say, it blasted a baked beans can full of water like a cherry bomb.
Once I get it working I can take it to 100 yards, rather than off the back porch.

[JBinMN]

High velocity and accuracy can be done in the AR-15. I did it a few years back when I was testing Hi-Tek coating shortly after it came out here.
I found linotype was the easiest alloy to cast good boolits without too many rejects. H4895 proved to be a good powder and the combo led to around 2,700 fps with less than 2" accuracy at 100 yards out of my Stag Arms 1-8.
I did heat treat some lino boolits and did a water quenching also between Hi-Tek coats. I pushed these boolits to over 3,600 fps (which I do not recommend). Accuracy fell off after about 5 rounds with debris left in the barrel that brushed out easily. Accuracy IIRC was around 2/1/2" to 3".
If I was going to start someone out shooting the AR-15 at close steel plates I think I might try the 22 cal. 40 0r 45gr jacketed bullets for the 22 Hornet. These would have to be reduced loads but are very soft so they might lessen the chance of a ricochet.
Casting, installing gas checks and lubing 22 cal. boolits to me is a maddening process. If you are going to try it use Hornady gas checks as they install much easier and accuracy in my testing was better.


I didn’t have an AR until this year but had bought a quantity of Vihta Vouhri NN-133 powder, which is supposed to be the cat’s meow for it. It worked nicely for jacketed bullets, so I tried a cast load today of the RCBS 22-055 FNGC with 16.0 gr. NN-133, CCI #41 primer. It would eject, but did not have enough juice to push the bolt back to pick up another round. I shot 5 with iron sights and 5 with green dot, and the groups overlaid each other at 25 yards, a 1.7” ten-shot group. Bore is shiny, a few unturned powder grains. Now to up the charge to get it to function properly.
I will say, it blasted a baked beans can full of water like a cherry bomb.
Once I get it working I can take it to 100 yards, rather than off the back porch.

Thanks! for sharing your data/info! ALL of ya! Not just the last 2 quoted...
:)

I am one who likes to get as much detail about folks doings, to see & compare to how things work for me as well.

The more we share, the more we know.
;)

[parkerhale1200]

My box of small rifle primers (gynex) is almost empty: 10.000 pcs.
Only meant for the ar 15, i must admit it was hard work to reach this number.:bigsmyl2:
With military iron site at 110 yards/100 meters: 2 inch groups are always there, except when i/we are in a playful mood.
I don't even weigh them anymore, just size/lube and gs em.
If i would really go the full mile, yes 1 inch can be done, for sure!

I don't own a top notch, top shelf ar rifle, just a affordable average joe, 13 in a dozen ar15 from dpms, twist?
I am no match shooter, just 35 years experience, but they perform after some experimentation the same and a bit better than the jacket ones.

Side note: My pet gun the parkerhale1200 308 with lead boolits up to 300 yards/330 meters, 3-5 inch.
No scope on it. No jackets allowed anymore! Just 22-25 bhn.
Both rifles were shot in prone position, no belt.

I use 16-18 bhn and 15,8 grains d060, there is no need to use pure lino.
Pure lino is ~35-40 bhn, for "full jacket" loads you can do easy with 22-25 bhn.
High velocity "full jacket" loads, yeah i use pure.

Sorry to say but still no fouling or a clogged up gaspipe.

Rcbs mold 55 gr.

@JBinMN, Soon i am in a casting session again, for all i care you pm me your address and i will send you some.
Tomorrow, i can figure out roughly how much it will cost me to send it to the usa.
Size .225, lube beeswax and lithium grease and aluminium homemade gc.
If you like of course.

Due to our laws i can NOT send you compleet ammunition, only the lead casts.
But you must do this anyway yourself: you only have to figure out two things:
Setting depth, and your start load.

With best regards.

[JBinMN]

@JBinMN, Soon i am in a casting session again, for all i care you pm me your address and i will send you some.
Tomorrow, i can figure out roughly how much it will cost me to send it to the usa.
Size .225, lube beeswax and lithium grease and aluminium homemade gc.
If you like of course.

Due to our laws i can NOT send you compleet ammunition, only the lead casts.
But you must do this anyway yourself: you only have to figure out two things:
Setting depth, and your start load.

With best regards.

Thanks very much for your offer!
:drinks:

I do not wish for you to be taking on the cost of doing so though, without more discussion between us.

I will be contacting you in the next day or so about it thru PM, rather than discussing here in this topic.

Thanks again!
:)

[parkerhale1200]

Your welcome

[parkerhale1200]

247691

Was in a playful mode, not really serious, cous of some stupid accident on the road.
Toke us 3 hours longer, there goes the serious mode, range almost closed.

Left target: prone shooting, little rapid fire.
Right target: standing shooting, little rapid fire.
Both positions shot with no belt, gloves or special jacket.
Just what you see, is what i shot, nice in a t shirt at 110 yards.
Upcoming holidays, i will do a thural cleaning and i will order a bore camera and or dismantle the gas tube for the non believers.

3 cents powder per shot, 15.7 grain D060 lovex
2.5 cent primer from gynex.
Gascheck free from freechexx device and coils, 10 dollar coil 10.000 gs.
Cases picked it up after a militaria drill on the range, all ggg and shot one time.

hmmm 6 cents, do i hear less?

Still very happy.