Winchester Model 70 push feed: jammed safety

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have picked up a 243Win Westerner version of the above rifle, the serial number puts it in the 1982 range.

It was a farm rifle with a pretty good bore, but lots of pitting on the bolt and exterior from sweaty hands no doubt. The bolt shroud was filthy inside. The rifle works ok, but the safety is jammed in the fire position. I have flushed it with turps, penetrating oil (including a top quality engineer's penetrating oil, Kroil doesn't seem to be sold here) to no avail. Looking under the shroud it seems to be cleaner (hard to tell as it is wet from the oil, etc), but the safety refuses to move.

To strip my Model 70s in the past, I have cocked the rifle, swung the safety to the middle position, removed the bolt, etc, etc, etc.

How do I proceed?

I have a big vise in the gargage downstairs, but the temps have been in the 100+ - 110 degrees lately and there is a bit of stuff to move to gain access to the vise and I haven't been feeling up to it. I have been reluctant to force the shround to unscrew with the safety in the wrong position.

This was going to be a project rifle, but the bore is good enough to make it a regular hunting rifle.

https://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Rifles/20190116_185626_zpsft2agn9s.jpg (https://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Rifles/20190116_185626_zpsft2agn9s.jpg.html)

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Rifles/20190116_190137_zpsxqgridd1.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Rifles/20190116_190137_zpsxqgridd1.jpg.html)

https://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Rifles/20190116_185439_zps7ki4jecx.jpg (https://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Rifles/20190116_185439_zps7ki4jecx.jpg.html)

Looking at that hole in the shroud I'm thinking that might be a roll pin holding the safety in.

The rifle was super cheap, I bought it for the action and stock, but if I can get the safety fixed, strip the bolt and give it a good clean, it will be a good hunting rifle as I've never been one for safe queens and pretty rifles.

Thanks in anticipation.

[Petrol & Powder]

Get a small metal can that the rear of the bolt will fit in.
Place the back end of the bolt in the can and fill the can with a 50/50 mixture of ATF and kerosene.
Go do something else for a few days.

Remove the bolt from the can and see if the safety works :grin:

[pmer]

Yeah let soak a few days then set it on the dash of a car and let that Australian sun heat it up for ten minutes and gently tap on it with a soft hammer.

[waksupi]

I agree with soaking it, or removing the rust in some way. If it still won't work, take it to the gun smith. The tiny roll pins that hold the safety in place can be a real booger to deal with.

[Gtek]

I am constantly fighting the fix it now monster that lives in me but patience can be a friend. Soak it for a few and pulling it out and heat cycle it if possible. Sounds like it's a bit warm on your end now, maybe something black to lay it on through day (or managed propane torch) and submerge hot to soak through night. Would suspect plunger and spring are frozen, maybe entire shaft. In fire position should be able to remove bolt, maybe even a couple controlled whacks with front of bolt in hand and hit shroud end on some clean lumber between heat and soak cycles. Sounds like it needs to come down to last pin and screw for sure, good luck on battle.

[toallmy]

Patience is a learned behavior , but I am a slow learner . Soaking it will probably work in time .

[Bodean98]

In your pics the striker appears to be in the fired position. Are you positive that the bolt is cocked and the safety still won't work?

[Petrol & Powder]

Patients is a learned behavior , but I am a slow learner . Soaking it will probably work in time .

Patience = the capacity to accept or tolerate delay, trouble, or suffering without getting angry or upset
Patients = persons receiving or registered to receive medical treatment

[toallmy]

Patience = the capacity to accept or tolerate delay, trouble, or suffering without getting angry or upset
Patients = persons receiving or registered to receive medical treatment

I most certainly appreciate you taking the time . I will correct my mistake .

[Smoke4320]

Get a small metal can that the rear of the bolt will fit in.
Place the back end of the bolt in the can and fill the can with a 50/50 mixture of ATF and kerosene.
Go do something else for a few days.

Remove the bolt from the can and see if the safety works :grin:

if no kerosene... Diesel fuel/ATF will work

[toallmy]

I played around with 2 Win. M 70s just to see if the safety could be engaged after firing , it couldn't on a fired cartridge . So there a good chance something else is causing the problem .

[Four Fingers of Death]

It is not cocked on the above photos, but the rifle cocks properly and fires ok. Thanks.

I'll do the kero / ATF soak. I have already soaked it a few times in penetrataiing oil, but obviously it needs a day or two.

I have another new rifle, I need to soak the bolt on this one and forget it for a few days and work on the new rifle.

Thanks for the prompt responses.

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=Four Fingers of Death;4553632]I have picked up a 243Win Westerner version of the above rifle, the serial number puts it in the 1982 range.

It was a farm rifle with a pretty good bore, but lots of pitting on the bolt and exterior from sweaty hands no doubt. The bolt shroud was filthy inside. The rifle works ok, but the safety is jammed in the fire position. I have flushed it with turps, penetrating oil (including a top quality engineer's penetrating oil, Kroil doesn't seem to be sold here) to no avail. Looking under the shroud it seems to be cleaner (hard to tell as it is wet from the oil, etc), but the safety refuses to move.

To strip my Model 70s in the past, I have cocked the rifle, swung the safety to the middle position, removed the bolt, etc, etc, etc.

My model 70 is a bit earlier (mid 1970's) and its a deluxe with the crappy whiteline spacers and a magazine floortrap
Cant remember last time I used the safety --- to remove the bolt on mine just haul back on it and depress the bolt release button on LH side of the action at the rear - dont need to move the safety to get the bolt out
Maybe they changed this setup ?

[pertnear]

My model 70 developed the same problem. It went from on-safe to off-safe easily, but over time it got harder & harder to move back to the on-safe position. One day it just froze. I soaked it for days in Kroil Oil & Liquid Wrench with no effect. I finally took it to a gunsmith & he fixed it while I waited. He smiled & knew what the problem was when I handed him the rifle. He took the bolt apart, removed the safety arm & polished the cam surface. That's all he did & put it back together. Said it was a common problem & there was no charge. I wish I could be more explicate but I didn't get to see the whole operation.

[Dan Cash]

I had a similar vintage M70 varmint rifle which I bought new. The safety never worked properly as it was not fitted up properly at the factory. As the gun would not hit an 8 1/2 x 11 inch sheet of paper at 50 yards and Winchester refused to correct the problem, the rifle went down the road. Pertnear has the definitive fix for the safety problem; there is not enough lube in the world to overcome the miss fit of the cam surfaces.

[EDG]

Dip it in light oil and then hit it with a blast of compressed air to get all that dirt moving.
Repeat oil and air 3 or 4 times and it should come loose.
Yes the small pin is a roll pin but I would save that in case compressed air does not work.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The air / oil approach sounds good. Plin old soaking it isn't doing much.

[indian joe]

I had a similar vintage M70 varmint rifle which I bought new. The safety never worked properly as it was not fitted up properly at the factory. As the gun would not hit an 8 1/2 x 11 inch sheet of paper at 50 yards and Winchester refused to correct the problem, the rifle went down the road. Pertnear has the definitive fix for the safety problem; there is not enough lube in the world to overcome the miss fit of the cam surfaces.

Everybody probably knows this already but just in case - the model 70 I have has three screws into the action 1) front into the bedding block 2) front of the trigger guard 3) rear of the trigger guard -----if you tighten no 2 up any more than a touch over finger tight accuracy goes to hell big time -- I have found this out the hard way twice in my life -- yeah you would think once would be enough but I forgot between times - pulling that middle screw up anyways tight stresses the action somehow and they will not shoot worth a squirt - slack the middle screw off and all is forgiven. Sometimes its the simple stuff that really screws things up - this was one of those with my rifle at least -

[Four Fingers of Death]

Good to know Indian Joe, thanks.

[castaroo]

Did you work it out, mate?

[Four Fingers of Death]

Did you work it out, mate?

Life happened in the meantime. I'll try the oil / airblast approach today.

[Gtek]

Swung through to see if victory had been declared. Blew up pictures this time and really looks like rifle had been on the trail in an open buggy, kind of looks like our desert powder dust turned to a solid in there. Know anyone with an Ultrasonic cleaner?

[Larry Gibson]

Four Fingers of Death

I'm sure you know this but just a reminder.....the bolt must be cocked for the safety to go on. Sometimes if the trigger has been "adjusted" or it is worn the striker moves forward blocking the safety. If the safety moves at all, even a little, when the bolt is in the rifle and cocked it is blocked, not stuck.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Thanks, I've been ill the last few days and haven't had a chance to get to it (well, I have but couldn't be boogerd, haha).

[JMtoolman]

I got my dad's Mod. 70 when he passed away. It had a problem somewhat like yours. Finely got it apart and found the roll pin sheared inside of the bolt. Both ends were still in the shroud but the inside sheared piece was floating around inside and would jam the safety in the fireing position. Dad had left it loaded that way for god knows how long! Try tapping the roll pin out and see if you can figure out what is going on inside of the safety.

[castaroo]

How goes the battle?mate

[Four Fingers of Death]

How goes the battle?mate

Not that good, nothing has worked so far, Taking it to the range this afternoon, I'll have another wreste with it.

[castaroo]

That doesn’t sound good mate

[Four Fingers of Death]

The range was so busy, I didn't get a chance to take it out of the 4wd (I'm the rifle Captain, I was running the range by myself today).

[toallmy]

I'm just keeping a eye on this post , hopping to see the issue with your safety worked out .
I have a m 70 that the safety is getting extremely hard to set back on safety from the fired position . I seam to only remember the problem when I take it out of the gun cabinet , I better get on it before it gets any worse .

[Four Fingers of Death]

Lately, life has been geting in the way of fixing rifle safety issues unfortunately.

[toallmy]

Understood Sr. - Wish you well .

[castaroo]

And the battle still on going i take it?

[Four Fingers of Death]

We battled it again at the range yesterday without success.

[castaroo]

Any updates on the safety issue?

[Four Fingers of Death]

All efforts have failed so far, looks like it's a job for the gunsmith to drill out the roll pin on the shroud.

[castaroo]

Has it been fixed yet?

[Four Fingers of Death]

Funny you should mention it, I bought some super penetrating spray, etc the other day, but am so crippled up with my back at the moment, I wouldn't get back up the front steps if I went out to the truck to get it. My Nissan Patrol wagon is virtually a shooting trap and is full of tools and other equipment. My wife is Chinese and her English is Chinglish, I'd be wasting my time sending her down for it, haha. It took me about three goes to get her to bring me a cushion off the lounge. She has other good points though and is lighting the fire as we speak.

[castaroo]

And you being a young man with a crook back? Mmmm something fishy about this i would say

[Four Fingers of Death]

And you being a young man with a crook back? Mmmm something fishy about this i would say

Yep, 71 years young.

[Bwana John]

Everybody probably knows this already but just in case - the model 70 I have has three screws into the action 1) front into the bedding block 2) front of the trigger guard 3) rear of the trigger guard -----if you tighten no 2 up any more than a touch over finger tight accuracy goes to hell big time -- I have found this out the hard way twice in my life -- yeah you would think once would be enough but I forgot between times - pulling that middle screw up anyways tight stresses the action somehow and they will not shoot worth a squirt - slack the middle screw off and all is forgiven. Sometimes its the simple stuff that really screws things up - this was one of those with my rifle at least -

Here are the torque specs that I was taught for the push feed 3 screw Model 70.

Screw #1- gorilla tight
Screw #3- orangutang tight
Screw #2- organ grinder monkey tight

[Gtek]

And when the sweet spot is found I take a VERY sharp center punch and very small dink applied on each head and a dink on each piece. The wooden stocks that have changed due to compression may have been tweaked, but habit to check before dismount for return.