Martini Aficionados

[LIMPINGJ]

I just got a BSA Cadet. The only negative is it is a 22, no interest and can't reload it. I have read articles that talk of convertions to a small c.f. round. I need to know has anyone converted a r.f. action to c.f. and who did the work? I plan on a reline of the barrel to keep the issue sights. Any ideas on this conversion would be a great help.
Thanks All
Jim

[4060MAY]

Going from RF to Cf is easier than the other way.
The easiest way is to get a CF striker, drill a CF fring pin hole and you are off.
Bushing the block can also be done, but the RF hole doesn't seem to hurt
normally the block is bushed with a dovetail.

4fingermick might be able to help with parts.

Chuck

[Frank46]

limpingj, try to locate a complete 310 cadet breechblock. I have a bsa 12/15 in 22rf and have a cadet cf breech block. Just for the heck of it I tried the cf block in the 22.
Darn it fits and works like it belonged there. As for relining, why don't you try the good old 32-20 cartridge?. You get a whole bunch of bullets from one pound of whatever's
your favorite alloy. One good bullet would be the lyman 311316 w/gascheck.Frank

[Jumptrap]

Let me toss you a few morsels to chaw on.

I have 2 Cadets. One started as a bare action a friend gave me and I had ot rebarreled to 7-30 Waters. Now while seemingly a good idea in theory....the 30-30 is absolutely the max case length this action will swallow...just too much of a good thing. I have never finished this rifle.

The other is an all original .310 Cadet....it was also a parts rifle. I got an action, then a friend gave me the lfet over parts...barrel and wood...from a Cadet he butchered and another friend gave me a rear sight. It all screwed together perfectly.

The 310 cartridge is an excellent round.....IF you'll break down and spend a few shekels and buy a set of .310 dies and a proper heeled bullet mould. My action, dies and mould all came from down under. The dies are Simplex brand...and a very good product. The mould is a CBE and none finer is made. It is the only brass mould I own and it convinced me that brass is a superior material...the bullets almsot eject themselves from the cavities.

.310 brass is easily formed from 32-20 brass as long as your rifle will accept/swallow the thicker rim. The 310 case has this wimpy assed thin rim...about half what a 32-20 is. However, my rifle takes the 32-20 rim with no problem. The 310 case is slightly tapered and maybe 1/16" shorter than a 32-20...don't have the exact specs. in front of me.

The whole point is this: if you can locate an orignal 310 barrel....and most I have seen Stateside are in perfect mirror bright condition...consider using it. It should screw right in and come to zero...you know, the front sight straight up and proper headspace. It is cheaper to buy dies and a mould than to rebarrel and you will have one of the finest little cast rifles you can ever own.

I don't care what caliber you rebarrel a Cadet to, the exractor is the weak link. They have next to no camming power..a load that is just beyond mild, will stick the case and you'll have to run a rod down the bore to poke it out. For me, any load beyond 10 grains of 2400 under the 130 grain bullet is subject to sticking...12 grains makes my rifle really talk..but it also sticks cases.

The action is hell for stout...I have shot 17 grains of 2400 under the 130 CBE bullet..the extractor will never yank the case free.

Everybody seems gung ho to rebarrel to 357. I don't like it personally. I have a Navy Arms Baby Rolling Block in 357....ho-hum. Before i would rebarrel to 32-20 and it's ****ty case.....go with the 32 H&R mag. as the brass is far superior...ballistics are the same...just good brass.

[LIMPINGJ]

I had not thought of Franks idea. I will try to locate a cf breechblock, it will most likely cost less than converting the rf one. Jumptrap if I could get a good 310 Cadet barrel I would be happy. My shooting pard has the dies and mold as he has four Cadets.
Jim

[heathydee]

Here in Australia many 310 cadets were converted to 22 RF when sporting arms were scarce in the 50s and 60s. This was quite simply achieved by milling a small ammount off the camming surface of the under lever so that the breechblock did not fully rise to become level with the top of the receiver.Thus the centrefire firing pin fell the required distance to strike the rim of the.22 cartridge . I converted one back a few years ago by welding up the camming surfaces and milling them back to centrefire dimensions. I fitted a .30 calibre barrel chambered for a 357 maximum necked down to .30.Shoots a 160 grainer at about 2200. Cast of course.
If your cadet was originally chambered for 22RF this information will probably be not much use. The easiest way to determine is to observe if the breechblock is flush with the top of the receiver when the action is fully closed.If the block is down 2 or 3 mm there is a good chance that your rifle is a conversion.Hope this helps.
Heath

[Jumptrap]

I had not thought of Franks idea. I will try to locate a cf breechblock, it will most likely cost less than converting the rf one. Jumptrap if I could get a good 310 Cadet barrel I would be happy. My shooting pard has the dies and mold as he has four Cadets.
Jim

Jim,

Just keep an eye peeled on ebay....that stuff surfaces ocassionally. Of course once it does, it becomes a feeding frenzy.

I happened to mention I was wanting one on some board....forget which one..and a pal there spoke up and said he had his left over parts and he'd send them to me for gratis! My action swam up from Australia...some how.

[TCLouis]

Tell me more about the 30X357 Max that you have.
Is it full length Max case?
The same 30X357 Max that Jim Rock RPM came up with??

I have one on a Cadet that is slightly shortened 357 Max case, long neck formed with 30X221 dies.


That is what one gets when one trades sight unseen with the friend of a dece3ased gunsmith.

NOT COMPLAINING, just an interesting thing to figure out. Thank goodness it had some cases that fit and were marked for orientation in the chamber. It needs to be tested MUCH more!

Why can't I win the lottery so work would quit interfering with important stuff . . . . Oh I guess I would have to plunk down a buck or two to enter . . . I could buy surplus powder with it instead!!

[heathydee]

Hi TCLouis. I arrived at the idea of a 30-357 Max because of several factors the first being I was given a 30 calibre barrel - allegedly worn out - from an Omark 308 Win. I already had a spare Cadet action and the desire to do something with it. I considered a 30-30 but have seen barrels bulged in the past . Conventional wisdom is that the 30-30 does not leave enough thickness and therefore strength at the threaded portion of the barrel.I required a 30 calibre case with a diameter of no more than three eights of an inch with a rim. No such thing .
Perusing the Hornady handbook revealed that the 357 Max case satisfied all of my needs apart from the neck diameter.I obtained a few cases and with a homemade necksizing die I reduced the diameter of the neck until it was of a length long enough to allow me to seat a 160 gn gascheck bullet level with the base of the neck while covering all of the grease grooves . This gave me a pattern from which I could fashion a "D" bit from annealed tool steel in order to cut the chamber. Threadcutting and headspacing followed , as well as bushing the firing pin hole in the breechblock.
Test firing began.The Martini is a strong little action let down by weak extraction so I simply chose a medium burning rate powder with the aim of having a case full of powder, hopefully at the point where the primers started to flatten a little , and before extraction became an issue. These parameters were met with 23 gns of AR 2206 . Velocity is around 2200 and accuracy is about 1.25" at 50 yds.
When using cast boolits sized at .310 I found I do not have to neck resize as I cut the chamber a little tight. Condom pills need a slight resize in a homemade die.Hope this helps.
Heath

[holycross]

Jim,

Have a look here for martini infomation. Not exactly what your looking for, but in the gunsmithing foruma gent relined a rotted out 22lr to 17hmr. Loooks like a fair amount of interesting info at least. HTH.

Mark Holycross

http://p223.ezboard.com/bbritishmilitariaforums

[JRParrish]

I've got an old 12/15 martini. Some previous owner cut to butt stock shorter. Would like an unaltered stock.
JRP

[Piglead]

I still own & shoot a martini cadet in it's origianal form .310 cadet ,as well as one converted to Hornet . Over the years I've owned them in .22lr,.22mag,25-20,32-20,357mag (I'm looking at one at the presant time to rechamber to 357MAX ) May I suggest Ether Janza Arms or Lawrance ordnance for Martini barrels & Parts as well as Dies from simplex (Jansa are the Simplex dealers )Try http://www.jansa.com.au & http://www.lawranceordnance@bigpond.au .They should be able to help you out! I've always had a soft spot for the little .310 as has my stepson who has just discovered the round :D The 125 gn soft point desinged for use in the .303 Brit makes a fantastic round for Goats out to 100yrds max But We normaly just cast 120 gn RNs out of a CBE mould I've had for years.

Dave