Hunting rifle @ 1849

[Rick R]

My State just added a an extra primitive hunting season. Basically recurves, longbows, and percussion or flinters with a side hammer. This has got me pondering...

Just for the sake of this thread let’s say the first viable hunting cartridge became available in 1850. If you were a young man of means planning a hunting trip to the American West in 1849 what type of rifle were you contemplating for your dream hunt?

Some form of musket? Hawken? I’m just curious as to what was “State of the Art” before cartridges upset the apple cart.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

the only wealthy back in those days went on hunting trips. Everyone else was just doing what was natural to survive and put meat on the table. They took with them what they had available.

[justashooter]

lots more smoothbores made than most realise, usually around 20 gauge.

[Beerd]

Find a copy of "The Oregon Trail" by Francis Parkman, Jr.
The year was 1846. His party carried a couple of rifles, one was a Hawken (50 or 54 caliber?), and a 12 gauge double.
They traveled between St Louis, Fort Laramie, Bents Fort and back to St Louis and didn't get scalped.
..

[rfd]

those trappers heading west out of st. louis more than likely had little coin for a hawken and relied on whatever they could afford, including flintlock brown bess smoothbores. hard to beat the versatility and faster loading of a 20ga or larger smoothie, with ball or shot, for sustenance and defense. good juju medicine for the bigger and nastier critters of the mountains, too.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

I think you will find that the hawken went west with more pilgrims than they did mountain men. Lots of excellent books out there. Buckskins & black powder is an awesome book to pick up.

[bob208]

read the cap lock muzzle loading rifle by ned Roberts.

[Outpost75]

1803 Harper's Ferry .54 flintlock and a brace of .54 pistols of the same caliber. Good enough for Lewis & Clark.

https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=802
http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_1082453

[Mr_Sheesh]

I always liked the Girandoni Air Rifles Lewis and Clark brought along, neat stuff!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_air_rifle

.463 Caliber repeaters, about 500 fps, could shoot 30 shots off a tank toughly.

NOT a poor man's weapon, though!

[sharps4590]

I don't believe the 1803 went with Lewis & Clark. It is still an immensely cool rifle! Hawken's were expensive and your average trapper couldn't afford one. Look at the list of owners of a Hawken and they're bout all prominent men of the era. Depending on the station of the trapper he most likely carried a trade type gun as issued by the company, as has been mentioned or, if a free trapper, might have carried a Pennsylvania rifle for a while. John D. Baird's book on the Hawken is probably the best though he does make it sound as if every trapper west of the Mississippi was carrying a Hawken.

It's a broad area of history. For your area I'd be very inclined to carry a Southern Mountain, flintlock rifle in 45 cal. or 50 if you think the 45 too small. That or a Pennsylvania rifle in the same calibers. 'Course, there is ALWAYs that romance of a very closely reproduced Hawken, NOT what TC calls a Hawken.

[Rick R]

Thanks for the input guys!
What I’m looking for is what was the most advanced muzzleloader prior to the advent of the self contained cartridge? Basically what was the rich man’s hunting rifle?

I probably clouded the issue with the reference to going out West. But surely some of the well to do went as far as the wilds of Ohio... ;)

[KCSO]

Read the scots hunters accounts. Gore gave Bridger a nice double rifle. The American hunters preferred a big bore St Louis style rifle in the 30-50's.

[Smokepole45]

Rick, I believe that rifles built for sporting purposes in that era prior to the Civil War were often half stocked with barrels around 36" plus or minus a few inches. The locks were percussion of course and very often with set triggers. Caliber was generally guided by their intended use. Larger heavier game required larger bores because round balls were commonly used for hunting and heavier bullets meant larger bores. Notice that I started out with the term "rifle" because smooth bore guns certainly have their own utility but arguably less accuracy at distance past 50 yards. There are exceptions of course to all of these generalities but on the whole we are pointed toward the Hawken style and a caliber suitable for deer and larger game. There were many other makers more or less expensive and elaborate but the makers pretty much made what the buyers wanted to use.
Back to the present, what would I hunt with during the primitive season? I'm a round ball shooter but there's nothing wrong with shooting slugs for hunting and some rifles today are made with rifling twist that will accommodate either. 45 caliber is great for fun shooting with round balls but too light for deer in my experience. Slugs (bullets longer than bore diameter) in 45 would be fine on deer if accurate. 45 is still my favorite for fun and small game with round balls but to hunt deer I want that ball to be 54 or 58. The key to success with a ML is safe practice as with any firearm. When you have a well made rifle you can try tuning with all the variables just as in hand loading until you get it right.
Take care of your rifle and it will take care of You. Just my $.02 based on 50 years of shooting, learning and eating lots of venison.

[Larry Gibson]

"I don't believe the 1803 went with Lewis & Clark."

Neither do most firearms historians these days. While the M1803 was called such actual production of any wasn't done until 1804, well after all preparations and the receipt of arms by Lewis & Clark was completed. It is now believed, besides many personally owned weapons, it was the "1792 Contract Rifle" with some "modification" for the expedition that was received from Harper's Ferry. Then it was only 15 such rifles that were received. Given there were 30 other soldiers on the expedition it is probable most, or at lest 1/2 to 2/3 of them were armed with the standard .69 caliber M1795 Springfield "Charleville" Musket.

[Wayne Smith]

To look at the above average hunter of the period the closest approximation today would be the Lyman caplock rifles. Readily available and not extremely expensive is the reason I put these at the top of the list. Available in roundball or combination rifling, flint or cap locks. Top of the dollar would probably have one of several double rifles, custom made. You can do the same thing if you want to spend the time and money to have one made. Petersoli is making some good stuff but I don't think they are rifling in 1-60 for round ball use. .50 and up for the west, .45 - .50 for the east.

[Rick R]

My first ML was a .50 caliber “Hawken” assembled from an Italian kit. It wasn’t as heavily constructed as a true Hawken, probably closer to a half stock Kentucky or Mississippi rifle.
Sounds like it’s not too far off as an Eastern hunting rifle. I may dig it out this Summer and see if the old gal still shoots. Or I may pick up one of those Lymans.

As for the new primative season, it’s cold out there, the freezer is full and the deer deserve a break. This old man is going to stay at home near a fire. :D

[mazo kid]

The OP asked what a young man "of means" might carry. Maybe a Baker Sporting rifle?

[MOA]

HERE YA GO RICK R

THE REAL DEAL. This can be purchased from Simpsonllc.com
Just call them up give them you credit card and they will ship it to you house. Quick and easy.

SPRINGFIELD 1847 CAVALRY MUSKETOON

No license is required for this item $2,400.00

69 Cal; good bore, good stock, 26'' barrel, Manufactured 1848-1859. Metal "in the white", mounted in a walnut stock with brass mounts. Lock marked with the American Eagle motif over "U.S." and at the rear "SPRING/FIELD/1851". The barrel is stamped with V P and eagleshead proofs. Original swiveling ramrod. No legible markings or proofs on the wood. The iron parts have been cleaned with pitting over all. The brass furniture has been cleaned in the past. The stock has 1 inch old tight crack on each side at the buttplate. The action works fine. Rifled barrel. Antique,

https://i.postimg.cc/Fsmg543G/2019-01-10-18-34-40-SPRINGFIELD-1847-CAVALRY-MUSKETOON-Simpson.png (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/wxDcGvy7/2019-01-10_18_33_55-SPRINGFIELD_1847_CAVALRY_MUSKETOON___Simpson.png (https://postimages.org/)

[ascast]

Sharps 1849

[Rick R]

MOA,

LoL! That’s a bit out of my price range. I have two rifles from Simpsons and their descriptions are usually pretty accurate. It does give an idea what was available back then.

[Rick R]

Sharps 1849

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/52/1221/rare-sharps-model-1849-rifle

:holysheep

Another interesting peek at that era

[frogleg]

I use a 1841 Harpersferry Rifle or it became called the Mississippi rifle originally 54 cal later bored to 58cal, mine is a replica in 58 and I use a .562 round ball with 60gr 3 fff Black and it hits hard at 75yrds (thats the best my eyes will do) I really like it.[smilie=l:

[Rich/WIS]

I've taken deer with 45, 50 and 54 caliber ML's, so don't worry too much about caliber. Have had some really nice and historically correct rifles but my arthritis in my hands makes it painful to ram a round ball home. Still have an old TC Hawken (definitely not a Hawken) in 50 that I shoot and may yet take another deer with BP before the end. If I were to-buy a new one would definitely look at some of the longrifle styles from the Dixie catalog, probably in 50, or perhaps a Lyman trade rifle, which is very similar to the Leman trade rifles of the 1830-1860 era.

[pietro]

Just for the sake of this thread let’s say the first viable hunting cartridge became available in 1850.

If you were a young man of means planning a hunting trip to the American West in 1849 what type of rifle were you contemplating for your dream hunt?




IIRC, the very first self-contained metallic cartridge was a .22RF, introduced in 1856.

Some earlier guns used "cartridges" made of powder wrapped in a flammable paper, but required separate ignition.

Hunting trips in the 1849 East would usually entail the use of a smaller bore muzzleloading rifle (.32, .36, .40, .45 cal), due to the size of the game available there. (deer, black bear, etc)

Someone planning an 1849 hunting trip to the American West would have been well advised to acquire a larger bore (.50, .54, etc) Hawken rifle on the way West (in St.Louis), because the game there can be much larger/tougher than back East. (Grizzly Bear, Elk, Bison, etc).

Non-affluent hunters would have used whatever was at hand - the most common arm being their own smoothbore musket/shotgun that they already owned for foraging/subsistence hunting.


.

[Mr_Sheesh]

If you read the Journals of Lewis and Clark you'd sure understand why THEY would want heavy rifles along with (They met "a few" grizzlies along the way...)

[Texas by God]

Why, I would visit the Remington family for their best grade large bore flintlock. And go to the LGS for a Colt Paterson .36 revolver.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk