Single action grip shape

[megasupermagnum]

I didn't want to continue taking up other peoples threads so I will start a new one.

I have been shooting single action revolvers as long as I have double action. The first two handguns I started on were a Ruger Blackhawk and S&W N frame. While I'm no expert on either, it did not take me long to become proficient with most double actions. I've tried for years to become comfortable shooting a single action, it's just not happening. Currently the only gun I own with a single action grip is a TC Scout Pistol, a 54 caliber muzzleloading monster. loaded with 60 grains FF Goex and a round ball, it's just fine. I tried a single shot with 80 grains and a 380 grain REAL. I knew it would be strong, so gripped as tight as possible. While the recoil was stout, nothing crazy, I've never come so close to taking a front sight in the head. The gun is not controllable in the slightest. This has been my experience with every powerful single action I've ever tried.

I'm not here to bash on single action revolvers, I just want to understand the science of why the round grip style are around, and almost unanimously used for the largest handguns. I've never got to try a large bore with a Bisley grip, I've not come across anyone who owns one. I'd like to some day, and for all I know it is the answer. It seems to me that the grip with a rounded back, fat bottom, and straight taper to the top is designed to fail. I've read over and over how the roll, really a loss of control in my view, can be used to cock the hammer one handed. I can see them working just fine for that job with softer shooting guns that don't have the power to cartwheel themselves. I've tried a very relaxed arm, something almost impossible to do from a bench, and still the gun turns in the hand faster than it can impart any recoil to my wrist and elbow.


Double actions are so simple by comparison. Whether it's a frame or grip stud, both are shaped like a human hand for the most part. You are then free to find the grip that fits your hand the best. I just don't understand what the single action grips are going for. In no way does the profile resemble a palm of a hand, and the grip panels don't either. You can hold them high, middle, or even low with pinky below the grip, it all feels the same. Vertical stringing is often the result for me. A double action grip just sucks your hand right into place.

It seems I'm missing out on some great firearms, I'd like to figure out how to make them work.

[MT Chambers]

Try the Bisley shape or the Freedom Arms both standard and round butt.

[slughammer]

....... I've never got to try a large bore with a Bisley grip, I've not come across anyone who owns one. I'd like to some day, and for all I know it is the answer.....

I felt the same way about the standard Blackhawk grip I had. S&W Double action revolvers and 1911's fit me and point correctly.

No one I know has a Bisley grip; but what I read made it seem like what I wanted, so I bought a 44spl Flat top Bisley Blackhawk. Terrific! It points and recoils just the way I'm used to. I highly recommend getting one.

[Greg S]

I can shoot a Ruger plow handle but it is not comfortable in 45 Colt or simular. Give me a Bisley in anything single action. Bigger grip, grip angle is better, points well and allow you to soak up the recoil without the pistol turning up in your hand under recoil. If you need a larger grip than factory, put some Hogue grips on it. G

[mike69]

I have a Blackhawk 45 colt that I just put the Hogue rubber gripe on . I do like the feel of it better than the factor grip when shooting it now . thinking of getting there fancy wood grip for to try out like the look of the wood over the rubber grip .

[Walks]

Single Actions are great. The plow handle grip is great, in rolls back in the hand under recoil.
The COLT SAA in .45COLT was the first centerfire handgun I ever fired. It rolled back in my two-handed grip, and I had no trouble hanging on to it with my 6yr old hands.
Later on I took up the COLT .357 Mag & S&W 19. Had no problem switching to a double action grip.
The grip doesn't seem to matter that much to me. I've shot all the RUGER grip variations, the old Virginia Dragoon, the Freedom Arms .454, and the T/C Contender grip in most variations and big Calibers.

The old Hogue white grips, HERRET Shooting Star's & Jordan Troopers. All Pachmyer Variations. And the New Hogue soft rubber with finger grooves.

Can't seem to figure out why folks have trouble adapting to different grips. I can't see the difference between a 1911 & a GLOCK. Sure they feel different in the hand. But I adapt equally well to either grip.

I think it's a matter of "hand adjustment" as much as "mind adjustment".

If ya don't like a handgun, you just won't be able to shoot it well.

[gnostic]

I do better with a S&W, but it's as a result of the faster locktime. I let single action revolvers roll in my hands rather then use a deathgrip on them.

[megasupermagnum]

A glock grip is just a modified 1911 grip. Both are just a stone throw from a double action revolver grip like a S&W N frame or similar. The Single action plow handle is light years different from everything else. Blackpowder level 45 colt is one thing. There's no way you are hanging on to a Blackhawk shooting real 44 magnum rounds. I can do it in a S&W N frame without thought. In a Blackhawk, the hogue grip at least keeps you from wearing the gun as a hat, but that's about it.

[Chad5005]

I have fairly large hands and have never really had a problem with grips of any kind,after a few shots to get used to a handgun,i love ruger plow handle grips,im not a rubber grip person,i do not care for bird head grip,i mainly own rugers but do have tuarus,smith and colt

[FergusonTO35]

I find the Ruger Super Blackhawk grip very comfortable, wish you could order a Blackhawk from the factory with it.

[megasupermagnum]

I was under the impression that the difference between a Blackhawk and super Blackhawk, among other things, was an aluminum vs stainless steel grip frame. Other than that, the shape looks identical to me. I've fired both a Blackhawk and super Blackhawk side by side. They feel the same, both want to fly out of the hand.

[tazman]

I have never been able to shoot any centerfire single action revolver accurately and most hurt my hands. Even the lightly recoiling 38 specials in a Blackhawk will beat up my knuckles with the trigger guard and occasionally put the hammer spur into the web of my hand.
I finally gave up on them altogether.

[Brassduck]

some people can shoot anything they put their hands on, some people can not. Good Luck

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Funny you mention the L frame. I shoot SAA Colt’s by far the most because they feel the best in my hand. Recently I went to a gun show and found just the L frame I was looking for but I didn’t buy it because it felt so foreign in my hand. I was a peace officer for over 30 years and carried a Ruger Security Six 6” with Pachmayr grips for over 8 years. Now I can’t accept it the grip of the DA in my hand although I wanted to buy an L frame. It was a beauty, blued 6” pre-side lock safety hole. If I’d have bought it I’d never shot it. I think it’s just each their own, and the way our hands are wired to our brains.

[megasupermagnum]

Still nobody has answered my question. The quintessential double action grip is shaped to fit the inside of a persons hand. The single action grip is not. That's why I'm baffled, I don't understand the reasoning why the grip is shaped the way it is.

[M-Tecs]

I find that I can shot quicker and more accurately one handed with the standard Blackhawk grip. Two handed I do better with the Bisley. With the double action grip style 44 Mag is about max for me before it becomes uncomfortable. The Bisley handles heavy recoil best for me.

[Larry Gibson]

Still nobody has answered my question. The quintessential double action grip is shaped to fit the inside of a persons hand. The single action grip is not. That's why I'm baffled, I don't understand the reasoning why the grip is shaped the way it is.

The SA grip is the way it is because it evolved that way with Colt finishing the final design. The design facilitates the use of a single action because double action revolvers were not around then. Handguns were used single handed and needed to be cocked with the shooting hand. That is easy to do with the SA. It also was found, as the power of the handgun cartridges increased, that recoil was easily handled and the rolling of the action brought the hammer more readily in position for cocking on repeat shots. I've been shooting 357, 41 and 44 magnum SAs since '68 with full power magnum loads and have never had any "want to fly out of my hand". I've also fired the more powerful 45s and 50s and, while recoil was there, they also never came close to flying out of my hand. Like any firearm it's simple a matter of a proper grip on the SA revolver.

BTW; I spent a lot of years in law enforcement "back in the day" when the revolver reigned supreme. I also competed in LE and IPSC competitions using a revolver. I was an advanced firearms instructor for the state LE certifying agency and instructed LEOs in DA revolver use. I have shot thousands upon thousands of rounds through S&W, Colt, Ruger and other makes of DA revolvers. One thing that was consistently apparent was the fit of the grip in the hand, either SA or DA, is essential to good (and comfortable) shooting. It is easy to master either style of revolver if the grip fits.

I still have both SA and DA revolvers in .22LR, 32 S&W, 32 H&R, 36 S&W, 38 SPL, .357 Magnum, 41 Magnum, 44 Magnum, 45 ACP and 45 Colt. I shoot both styles equally well because I've not developed a bias against either and understand the capabilities of whichever I am shooting at the time. I thoroughly enjoy shooting both styles.

[contender1]

For the OP & anyone else who feels one grip style is better than the other.
First, I'll offer a bit of info about myself. I'm a 50 yr veteran handgun shooter, a NRA instructor, a gun range owner, a USPSA competitor, a handgun hunter, and WOT clinic instructor.

The number one thing I teach is; "A gun must fit YOUR hand before you can do well with it."

That said,, some folks can shoot many different types of handguns w/o issues switching between them. I actually hunted with a T/C Contender for many years, competed with a 1911, CCWed a DA revolver, and shot SA's in all types of situations.

Why?

Because I learned HOW to grip each style of handgun, AND found grips that fit my hands.

Proper instruction goes a LONG way in learning how to shoot any style. But the grip must fit your hands.

Next, the physics of it all. Look at the design of the gun, how it moves under recoil, and learn to master the control of the recoil for accurate shooting.
A SA design tends to roll a bit, muzzle flipping upwards, and actually turning to the side a bit if held with one hand. (And yes,, you CAN shoot a Ruger Blackhawk, or Super Blackhawk in 44 mag one handed accurately.)
The DA design tends to push back and up a bit, with less rolling,, but more bit in felt recoil as it is delivered rearward. And I have shot true big bore handguns one handed in both SA & DA designs.
The semi-auto's use the recoil to operate the action, and there is a different felt recoil due to all this. Plus, in a semi, the hand is positioned higher to the centerline of the bore, allowing a different feel in the felt recoil. It is taught to get your hand as high in the grip as possible for a semi, for recoil control.

But one of the biggest things I have had students fail at is UNDERSTANDING how to properly control recoil. Too many people want to "fight" the recoil, by various thought processes. One process they try is to "Hold it with a death grip to keep it from rising so much." This is true with SA's & DA's. Fear of recoil is the driving factor here. With a death grip,, you can not get good trigger control for accurate shooting. Too much hand & arm tension CAUSES felt recoil pain. The master hand should be used for proper hold & trigger control, while the off hand is used to balance & control recoil.

It was asked by the OP, about the shape of the grip designs. Go back, long before revolvers were designed. The flintlock handguns. Lower power, and shaped to allow a single hand to fire them. Yet, felt recoil wasn't an issue, as it is with modern calibers. Then, as evolution of engineers looked at things, the shape of the grip evolved, and it turned into the classic "plow handle" design. But again, in the 1800's and into the 1900's, heavy recoiling calibers were not designed yet. But long before the big bores,, Colt designed a "Bisley" style, that does fit a lot of hands & is controllable to shoot. The big bore magnum era, didn't really happen until the mid 1950's. And with S&W & Ruger offering that caliber, in two different designs. Many folks found the large grip frame of the S&W was too much, as did many with the Rugers. Ruger came out with different grip designs,,, due to conversations with popular gun writers and handgunners. (Elmer Keith was very influential in this.) Ruger went from the XR3 design, to adding the Super Blackhawk Dragoon design, (which, for those above who have never tried it, is longer & flared differently) And then they added a flare to the bottom of the g/f with the XR3-RED design. That is the current shape of most Ruger SA guns, except for the Supers, and the Bisleys.
The DA design was developed, as a total different action type, to allow for pulling the trigger to fire the gun, and as such, the frame design allows for better torque in transferring energy from the hand to the trigger finger.
It was an evolution in design.

And, as for the Bisley design by Ruger. It was developed to allow for a different feel to many, AND allow for better proper recoil control.

So, to answer the Op's question, you can see it's not a simple cut & dried answer.

You have to find a grip that fits your hands, AND get proper instruction in HOW to use different grip frame designs to shoot properly. And even with all that,, due to different hand shapes,, sometimes even that will not work the best. As mentioned above, part of it is mental as well.

It was mentioned by a few folks above that they had no access to try a Bisley gripped SA,,, or whatever. I would offer this. Find a SASS competition club, and visit. Talk to the cowboys there. And, soon, you will find one who not only has some Bisley's, they will have them in big bore recoiling calibers. BUT,, also ask for someone who is a GOOD instructor in HOW to shoot a SA to teach you.
Or,, if you can find someone who is an old time silhouette shooter,, (a game that has sadly declined, as it is a premier type of long range handgun shooting that requires a LOT of serious shooting,) to teach you HOW to shoot a SA properly.

And I'll even offer this;
I own a range, and several guns, in DA, SA, and Bisley. if you are ever in WNC,, I'll offer to let you try mine, AND teach you how to handle a SA.

[Rainier]

I sure don’t have the experience of some others on this thread but I’ll share my very limited experience. I never really shot big bore revolvers until about 10 years ago, I just enjoyed my 9mm's, 45 ACP’s and 357 mag’s etc… Well, my first experience with a large bore revolver was a real eye opener. I was over griping a Ruger RedHawk 44 mag with locked wrist and tight elbow like a 1911 - bad mistake! I got lucky and managed to read Elmer Keith’s book “Six Guns” where he writes about letting a big bore six gun recoil up at the elbows. So, from my first painful experience I went to an “Oh! This is fun!” at the next range session. After I sorted out how to let a big bore revolver recoil, next came a comfortable grip. I tried many different grips on the RedHawk and then found the Pachmyar presentation grip. It fits MY hand and I’ve been taken with the RedHawks ever since.

What does any of this have to do with the OP’s single action grip question? For single actions, I have a brace of Ruger Vaquero’s in 357 mag and a BlackHawk 45 Colt convertible (and maybe one to two others) with plow handles. The 357 Vaquero’s don’t recoil enough to make shooting them much of a challenge in my opinion. The BlackHawk, especially if loaded to 45 Colt “Ruger only” stop a charging cement mixer levels, certainly will present a challenge if your not prepared. I haven’t changed the grips on any of them and they point great, feel great and just plain work… for me. I even shot one of my friends Bisley gripped Rugers and found I much preferred the plow handle. Grips, I’ve come to the conclusion, are a pretty personal choice.

My question for the OP is, do you let the large bore single action recoil at the elbow(s)? The plow handle grip will move a bit in your hand but not much if… you allow the recoil to be absorbed into the elbow(s) complimented with a very small amount of upwards movement at the shoulder(s). I haven't had any challenge with single action big bore revolver recoil (say that fast ten times) since I sorted out you need to “go with the flow” - Thank you Elmer Keith!

[megasupermagnum]

Yes, I can shoot The N frame and Redhawk no problem. They are just so much more natural for me. Not all factory grips work, but with the right set, I have no pain shooting any 44 magnums. The problem I run into is the blast from such a round causes mental fatigue that limits me to about 25 full power rounds at a time depending on the day. It's just the honest truth. Once I feel myself starting to tense at the shot, it's time to pack it up for the day.

In the case of a single action, it's not my subconscious. I think to myself, I have to hold on tight. The moment I don't, that thing is sliding around. The trick seems to be to keep as tight a grip as possible, while maintaining a limp wrist and elbow. Normally I resort to keeping my pinky under the grip, but that can't be right. It doesn't look right, it doesn't feel right.

That's beside the point. Why are modern guns like the BFR, with no connection to the historic guns, keeping a grip that is harder to use? Surely there is some reason I'm missing. After all I've heard, it sounds like I have to try a bisley grip. In that case, it seems the angle is the key. I still don't see how it can possibly be better than a more shaped grip.

[str8wal]

The RUGER Bisley is very similar to my GP and SRH DA's in feel. I don't like the "plowhandle" SA grips at all.

[contender1]

"That's beside the point. Why are modern guns like the BFR, with no connection to the historic guns, keeping a grip that is harder to use? Surely there is some reason I'm missing"

The reason why is that the SA design DOES work for many folks. It is due to learning HOW to shoot them, AND having a proper fit of the gun to the shooter.

Again, a too tight a grip may be a big part of the problem. In general, I offer my students this thought;
The dominant hand, should offer about 30%-35% of the gripping pressure, while the off hand should apply 65%-70%. YET,,, NEITHER hand should apply so much force as to fight the recoil.

[jmort]

I have more SAs than DAs and more Plows than Bisleys
I like them all
I especially like my Blackhawks with Gun Fighter Grips
For heavy recoil, the Bisley seems best which is why Linebaugh et al convert all the heavies to Bisley grips.

[Texas by God]

The single action grip frame rolls in the hand on recoil. The felt recoil seems to be less with both styles with the Bisley being the best. I am talking holster guns here, not BFR's or X frame Smith's. At one time my brother had a 4" S&W .41 m57 while I had a .41 Ruger BH 4-5/8". We both agreed that when the loads were hot, the Ruger was easier to shoot. YMMV. I never cared for the flared Super Blackhawks grip but it helps with recoil too.

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[C-dubb]

I have big Hands and have found that I shoot the plow handle best if I curl my pinky finger under the grip.
love the plow handle but hate the pointed trigger guard on the Super Blackhawk. (makes me bleed)

[megasupermagnum]

The single action grip frame rolls in the hand on recoil. The felt recoil seems to be less with both styles with the Bisley being the best. I am talking holster guns here, not BFR's or X frame Smith's. At one time my brother had a 4" S&W .41 m57 while I had a .41 Ruger BH 4-5/8". We both agreed that when the loads were hot, the Ruger was easier to shoot. YMMV. I never cared for the flared Super Blackhawks grip but it helps with recoil too.

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It's clear I just don't get it. I know it's a problem with me. I've shot a 41 mag 6 1/2" Blackhawk right next to a 6" m57. The 41 Blackhawk with stout ammo is scary. I still think the N frame 41 mag is one of the best hunting guns ever produced. It's a gun I can get very comfortable behind. The owner of the Blackhawk sold it shortly after that day, admittedly he doesn't like double actions either.


Maybe one day I'll find a place for them, but for now I think I'll stick to double actions. I've been wanting to make my own grips for an SP101, while I'm at it, I think I'll try and make some for my TC scout pistol.

[MT Gianni]

I have 4 blackhawks and only one has the factory grip. I don't know why but I shoot that one well. [Lipseys 44 special].
Shooting with a grip that doesn't fit is a waste of time and money.

[wildcatter]

Yes, I can shoot The N frame and Redhawk no problem. They are just so much more natural for me. Not all factory grips work, but with the right set, I have no pain shooting any 44 magnums. The problem I run into is the blast from such a round causes mental fatigue that limits me to about 25 full power rounds at a time depending on the day. It's just the honest truth. Once I feel myself starting to tense at the shot, it's time to pack it up for the day.

In the case of a single action, it's not my subconscious. I think to myself, I have to hold on tight. The moment I don't, that thing is sliding around. The trick seems to be to keep as tight a grip as possible, while maintaining a limp wrist and elbow. Normally I resort to keeping my pinky under the grip, but that can't be right. It doesn't look right, it doesn't feel right.

That's beside the point. Why are modern guns like the BFR, with no connection to the historic guns, keeping a grip that is harder to use? Surely there is some reason I'm missing. After all I've heard, it sounds like I have to try a bisley grip. In that case, it seems the angle is the key. I still don't see how it can possibly be better than a more shaped grip.

Contender1 covered things better than I could have. But your question of why do companies like BFR use a grip that doesn't work is totally wrong. I don't care for double actions because I like revolvers for the fact they are lighter and more compact. There is nothing lighter or more compact that can take the powerfull cartridges that a single action can. Double actions have to be larger and heavier to take the same levels of power the single action does.
You should also ask this, why is Jack Huntington, Hamilton Bowen, Dave Clements, John Linebaugh, Alan Horton, Gary Reeder, Jim Stroh, John Gallagher, and other world renowned gunsmiths building most of their baddest and biggest most powerful handguns on single action frames??? It should be obvious it's not just because they handle the power of these cartridges better for their size, but they are better at managing the recoil they produce when properly handled!

I am one who owns over a dozen single actions, and only 2 double actions. But all my big heavy recoiling revolvers use a Bisley grip frame, the ones that don't have grip panels that are designed to take some of the roll out. I prefer a grip that has more meat in the top and not so much in the but end on the plow handle style. When you have a skinny top section, with a wider fatter but end it promotes rolling in your hand. On very heavy recoiling calibers even that requires advanced technique and practice to master with the plow handle design. The Bisley is without question the most capable design of handling extreme recoil, but even it need the characteristics I mentioned in the plow handle style.

But they all require the shooter to use proper technique to master.

[megasupermagnum]

Come on now, this thread is about the grip shape. A Redhawk/Super redhawk is about 4 ounces heavier than a super blackhawk. That is hardly significant, and there are rumors the redhawks handle a steady diet of full power loads longer than the blackhawks. The strength of each is equal. I've called Gary Reeder before, that guy is a dink. Bowen and Cements are true masters of the craft though.

Back to the grips, I have to ask about a clarification on some terms. What exactly is "roll". Is it a more pronounced muzzle rise, slipping in the hand, or something else?

[wildcatter]

try putting that redhawk in my super Blackhawk holster once, and yes same revolvers with more weight out front is more than just 2 OZ, but it is a big difference in adsorb recoil, plus that lug and heavier barrel with hollow frame to the rear is much different than the cold mass of the single action with a lighter barrel out front, this just magnifies the difference. Why do you think the gun rises more in the muzzle, it is much more than just a grip, height of barrel above the grip weight in hand and not out away from the hand, shape you name it, but that 2 or 3oz is magnified by where it is taken from and where it is placed. Then that huge hollow frame that requires a bigger holster, and even bigger difference riding on your hip.

Yes roll is sliding thru your hand, and the more you shape that grip panel like a pine tree, the faster it rolls, if you could turn that upside down narrow bottom and wide top, it would be a painful experience, in between is what most quality and experienced grip makers deliver.

[Tom W.]

I started with a SA Ruger, then shot my buddy's SA .357 and .44 Mag. I bought several .44 mags in SA, and could shoot them quite well. Then I bought a Security Six and my whole world changed. The DA just feels and shoots better for me. Even my SRH in .480 Ruger was no problem. I still have a SRH in .44 mag that I hope to keep until I see the brown side of the grass.
An older S&W feels good, but the only Colt that I had that felt natural was a 1911 that I kept and carried for over 30 years.

[Drm50]

I too started young with a Ruger Single-6 and shortly after a S&W K22. I could shoot the S-6 well but the K22
much better. I don't think it had anything to do with grip shape. The lock time on S&W was much faster. The 1st
center fire for me was a Ruger SBH and I learned to shoot it, no problem with the grip. My dad couldn't shoot it
at all, the square back of trigger guard would beat him every time. Then we got a M29 S&W and it was much easier to shoot. I find that guys that can shoot a SA will do very well with a S&W. Guys that have shot DAs don't
do as well with SAs. I still have those old 3screw Rugers but I don't shoot them that much and Im not as good with them as when a kid. The grip shape is important but only to the individual that is shooting it.

[megasupermagnum]

Yes roll is sliding thru your hand, and the more you shape that grip panel like a pine tree, the faster it rolls, if you could turn that upside down narrow bottom and wide top, it would be a painful experience, in between is what most quality and experienced grip makers deliver.

In that case "rolling" is a complete loss of control of the gun. If that is what single actions are supposed to do, I will never like single actions. Just a personal preference.

[Rainier]

If that is what single actions are supposed to do, I will never like single actions. Just a personal preference.

So there ya go! Obviously single actions aren't for you. Because I'm here to help I'll take any you have off your hands for $100 dollars each. That ought to save you any future grief or possible head injury. Like Mom always said; "Its all fun and games until someone gets their eye poked out." :razz:

[megasupermagnum]

It looks like I won't have to. The previous blackhawk owner I mentioned earlier stopped by. We were talking about his new single seven, and quickly turned to grips. He bought a set of Hogue grips for his single seven (even the lowly 327 federal was causing the gun to slip in his hand, ruining groups), and by accident they also sent a set of super blackhawk grips with. By chance, he had them. I looked at them and thought there's no flipping way. I pulled out the Scout pistol, and by god they slipped on! I had to muscle them somewhat, but no modifications at all, even the screw bracket went right on a pin the scout pistol had. They aren't a perfect fit, being the grips are for a square trigger super blackhawk. For all I know the Scout pistol is an exact copy of the standard blackhawk grip frame. It's ugly, but it is rock solid 100% functional. I am ecstatic. I don't wan't to rip on single action revolvers, but I just don't get what you guys see in them. I want traction on my grips. If that means 475 linebaugh is too painful in a double action, so be it. 44 magnum is more than necessary for me.



233699

[lar45]

Most excellent, :)
I am a real big fan of the Houge Mono-Grip. I tried one for a Super BlackHawk on my 475 BFR. It took a little work with a dremel, but I got it to fit.
233709

[LazyTCross]

Frustration begins where knowledge ends.
You are absolutely ripping on single actions which if fine by me, you don’t have to tell us that you are not.
There is simply no need to keep expressing something that you hate, and have repeatedly informed all that you do not understand.
Several have very eloquently tried to explain why single actions have their place. You are just refusing to except the fact that they are usable.

It’s not an opinion to say that they do work.

Just want to mention again that it is perfectly fine and great for me if you love double actions. Own and shoot several myself. I am glad you found something you enjoy!

Again as mentioned. I am sure several including myself would be willing to help. Post a video of yourself shooting a single action. Maybe it’s a simple silly form issue.
Maybe they are just wrong for YOU.

As for me. I’ll keep shooting my BFR.


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[megasupermagnum]

That's a good idea. Next time I shoot one Ill record it.

[Rainier]

OK because you now have two sets of grips for the Scout I'll go $110 dollars for it saving you from feeling like you need to make a video and risking possible injury. :bigsmyl2:

[megasupermagnum]

OK because you now have two sets of grips for the Scout I'll go $110 dollars for it saving you from feeling like you need to make a video and risking possible injury. :bigsmyl2:

Have you seen the original grips for the scout pistol? I'll tell you what, if you can shoot my scout pistol loaded to the max with the original grips, and not hit yourself in the face, I'll pay you $20, plus a free day shooting. No gloves either. The max listed is 110 grains of FFg powder. From what I've seen, that gets a 430 grain maxi ball going almost 1200 fps.

The more I look at them, the more I think a single action grip frame can be made to work. It's just that the ones I end up shooting have the old west style looking ones that are essentially bell shaped. You might as well make a grip out of an icicle if that's your idea of a good shooter. They don't need to be soft rubber Hogues, but just something that at the very least isn't tapered. That is a design, made to fail.

[Texas by God]

When I was young and shot every day, I could "control the roll" of my .41 BH with 210gr/1450fps loads well enough to splinter 5 bowling pins in 5.5 seconds. Shooting two handed, cocking the hammer with my weak side thumb. I never lost control of said gun.

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[lar45]

Have you seen the original grips for the scout pistol? I'll tell you what, if you can shoot my scout pistol loaded to the max with the original grips, and not hit yourself in the face, I'll pay you $20, plus a free day shooting. No gloves either. The max listed is 110 grains of FFg powder. From what I've seen, that gets a 430 grain maxi ball going almost 1200 fps.


I have a BFR in 45-70 and have pushed 405s to 1750fps. And while it was no longer fun to shoot, it was still controllable. I could put 5 into 1.5" at 50yds with the open sights ;)

[arlon]

I was at a gun show mostly looking for a .41 mag Blackhawk. Saw one on the first table I came to. I ended up with it and while I was walking around I ran into a guy trying to sell another almost identical one except it had the Bisley grip. Got it too. Shot them both, took the regular gripped model to the next gun show and traded it off. At least with a stout .41 load the Bisley grip was much better in my hands. I own more than a few S&Ws in all frame sizes. No problems with them either. I also had a Ruger Redhawk in .41 recently, it was controllable but I never liked the feel and traded it off too. Still have and shoot the Bisley.

[lar45]

Ok, my wife was reading the thread and she would like to respond
She accepts you challenge on one condition
You have to shoot our 70cal Howdah, with a max load, and not have it hit you in the face.

You should come down for a BBQ and shoot some beasts...

233744

[megasupermagnum]

Ok, my wife was reading the thread and she would like to respond
She accepts you challenge on one condition
You have to shoot our 70cal Howdah, with a max load, and not have it hit you in the face.
233743
You should come down for a BBQ and shoot some beasts...

Absolutely! Please add a picture, I can't see it.

I'm sorry if I become snarky. As one person said, frustration starts where knowledge ends.

I've been too into handguns lately. I need a break back to shotguns where I actually know something.

[Tom W.]

I never had an urge to shoot such as a Howdah, but I did buy an Encore pistol once in 30-06.
It wasn't as bad as the .454 that I traded for.....

[megasupermagnum]

I never had an urge to shoot such as a Howdah, but I did buy an Encore pistol once in 30-06.
It wasn't as bad as the .454 that I traded for.....

The howdah is one thing. Same as my Scout pistol, just don't use as much powder. That 45-70, 405 gr at 1750 fps, that is another. I can't even imagine what that is like. I'm guessing a guy doesn't shoot too many of those before backing off.

[Texas by God]

Some day when you have the chance, handle a 1851 Navy and feel the bliss of the plow handle with perfect balance. As far as Rugers go, the SBH and Bisley have the extra weight of steel grip frames. The standard Blackhawk's alloy frame allows more commotion in recoil.

[dubber123]

Have you seen the original grips for the scout pistol? I'll tell you what, if you can shoot my scout pistol loaded to the max with the original grips, and not hit yourself in the face, I'll pay you $20, plus a free day shooting. No gloves either. The max listed is 110 grains of FFg powder. From what I've seen, that gets a 430 grain maxi ball going almost 1200 fps.

The more I look at them, the more I think a single action grip frame can be made to work. It's just that the ones I end up shooting have the old west style looking ones that are essentially bell shaped. You might as well make a grip out of an icicle if that's your idea of a good shooter. They don't need to be soft rubber Hogues, but just something that at the very least isn't tapered. That is a design, made to fail.

I REALLY with I was closer, I could always use another $20.

[Golfswithwolves]

Mr. megasupermagnum- I reckon that for revolvers which match up with your screen name that the old single action-type grips may not be the best design. What they are good for though is for rapidly lining up a shot with a Colt's SAA (at least for me they are). My view is that this is what I want to be able to do with a revolver mostly, so that if there is a threatening rattlesnake, badger, mountain lion or something else that I can effectively shoot the threat. Same thing with a double action gun, but for me the SA points a bit straighter and quicker without a lot of effort. As for being controllable in the hand on recoil I find the SA handles this well with the load levels that revolvers are very useful at. I guess there are lots of shooters who like heavy loadings and some who like REALLY heavy loadings, and these folks will have their own different requirements for the gun's handle shape (As an aside though, DA grip shapes are not really all that much like the inside of most hands either, unless you have a ring finger and little finger which are longer than your middle and index fingers). But again as an answer to your question, I believe that the old single action grip came about because it is pretty "ergonomic" for effective use of standard loads in SA revolvers.

[contender1]

I too would take the $20 challenge. I have handled & shot many custom big bore handguns,, and I understand recoil. I once had a shooter who had a BFR in 450 Marlin. He challenged me to shoot a full cylinder with it. We were at an indoor range, and the longest distance was 25 yds. Not only did I meet his challenge, I exceeded it by shooting 2 cylinders full. AND my grouping was one single ragged hole of about 2". I took his money too.

And your comments;
"The more I look at them, the more I think a single action grip frame can be made to work. It's just that the ones I end up shooting have the old west style looking ones that are essentially bell shaped. You might as well make a grip out of an icicle if that's your idea of a good shooter. They don't need to be soft rubber Hogues, but just something that at the very least isn't tapered. That is a design, made to fail.'

We have discussed this in many threads etc.
The tapered design DOES work for many,, when you understand the physics of recoil, AND are NOT fighting the recoil. You have even admitted fighting the recoil,, and by your constant comments about disliking the tapered shape, and wanting a grip shape you can "control" prove that you are unwilling to try & find a proper instructor, who can & will teach you how to shoot a SA plow handle. OR,, you are unwilling to accept the physics of how a SA works, and feel it is a design failure because you can't make it work in your hands. As noted by myself, and many others, ,,, the SA design can & does work quite well, and has for decades. The tapered shape you mention seems to be your main beef, because it isn't shaped like a DA design.
Look at a DA and look at a SA. The SA has the grip frame under the main frame, while the DA has it behind the main frame.
Next, if you want to understand it even more, do this;
Take a big wad of modelling clay, say the size of a baseball. Get a grip on it, and squeeze it until you get a hand shape. Next, look at it and you will see excess at the bottom, while at the thumb area, you will have less clay.
BUT,, all this aside,, you still refuse to accept the fact that you CAN control the recoil without fighting it. A SA can & does work, in the hands of those willing to learn how. Fighting it actually causes more felt recoil, and hinders accuracy.

I stand by my offer to teach you how if you are ever in my area.

[GL49]

Ok, my wife was reading the thread and she would like to respond
She accepts you challenge on one condition
You have to shoot our 70cal Howdah, with a max load, and not have it hit you in the face.

You should come down for a BBQ and shoot some beasts...

233744

Uh-huh.
Now I've seen the proverbial "gun that kills on both ends"

[Rainier]

Have you seen the original grips for the scout pistol? I'll tell you what, if you can shoot my scout pistol loaded to the max with the original grips, and not hit yourself in the face, I'll pay you $20, plus a free day shooting. No gloves either. The max listed is 110 grains of FFg powder. From what I've seen, that gets a 430 grain maxi ball going almost 1200 fps.

Ha Ha Ha! I’m dying over here [smilie=l: Thanks for the laugh!


I tried a single shot with 80 grains and a 380 grain REAL. I knew it would be strong, so gripped as tight as possible. While the recoil was stout, nothing crazy, I've never come so close to taking a front sight in the head.

As probably the least experienced single action shooter on this thread here’s an offer for ya. Next time I’m in Minn-a-snow-ta let’s get together and I’ll give your 80 grain - 380 grain REAL load a wave. If I manage that without injury the first whiskey is on you. If I get smacked in the head I’ll buy you a copy of “Sixguns”. If nothing else comes from our adventure at least it involves shooting guns and whiskey :smile: And of course the $110 dollar offer still stands.

[wildcatter]

I too would take the $20 challenge. I have handled & shot many custom big bore handguns,, and I understand recoil. I once had a shooter who had a BFR in 450 Marlin. He challenged me to shoot a full cylinder with it. We were at an indoor range, and the longest distance was 25 yds. Not only did I meet his challenge, I exceeded it by shooting 2 cylinders full. AND my grouping was one single ragged hole of about 2". I took his money too.

And your comments;
"The more I look at them, the more I think a single action grip frame can be made to work. It's just that the ones I end up shooting have the old west style looking ones that are essentially bell shaped. You might as well make a grip out of an icicle if that's your idea of a good shooter. They don't need to be soft rubber Hogues, but just something that at the very least isn't tapered. That is a design, made to fail.'

We have discussed this in many threads etc.
The tapered design DOES work for many,, when you understand the physics of recoil, AND are NOT fighting the recoil. You have even admitted fighting the recoil,, and by your constant comments about disliking the tapered shape, and wanting a grip shape you can "control" prove that you are unwilling to try & find a proper instructor, who can & will teach you how to shoot a SA plow handle. OR,, you are unwilling to accept the physics of how a SA works, and feel it is a design failure because you can't make it work in your hands. As noted by myself, and many others, ,,, the SA design can & does work quite well, and has for decades. The tapered shape you mention seems to be your main beef, because it isn't shaped like a DA design.
Look at a DA and look at a SA. The SA has the grip frame under the main frame, while the DA has it behind the main frame.
Next, if you want to understand it even more, do this;
Take a big wad of modelling clay, say the size of a baseball. Get a grip on it, and squeeze it until you get a hand shape. Next, look at it and you will see excess at the bottom, while at the thumb area, you will have less clay.
BUT,, all this aside,, you still refuse to accept the fact that you CAN control the recoil without fighting it. A SA can & does work, in the hands of those willing to learn how. Fighting it actually causes more felt recoil, and hinders accuracy.

I stand by my offer to teach you how if you are ever in my area.

Another good point in the benefits of the SA grip for the most demanding calibers is the fact of how much easier on the joints, elbows and the wrist in particular, that a single action is than the harshness the DA grip puts on the same joints. As Contender1 said, he can teach that to happen with the SA, I no he can't do that with Double Action.

The SA allows some of that recoil to roll up and back as it is unleashing and transfers it's energy into the wrist and transfers back to the elbows, while the DA forces more of it's energy directly rearward and back into the wrist and elbows. That opposite energy transfer is the same with both weight revolvers and more so with a lighter revolver, if it isn't moving up and to the side, 100% of it is pounded into places that are known to breed arthritis and other joint damage,, and those are facts, not opinions!

This is not an issue when your 20 years old even 40 or 50, but will certainly be much more noticeable when you close in on 60 and swelling and pain start to overpower the idea to use and enjoy bigger bores and bullet weights, and obviously easier and less painful using a SA with proper technique days later than the best technique with a DA when you close on that 70 year mark. You may not notice it at a younger age, but rocks and dynamite are taking their toll at a much greater extent with the DA. This is more noticeable to those shooting 1000's of heavy rounds a year than those shooting them with heavy loads on a very rare occasion, or plinking loads.

But their is no doubt many will never learn to use the SA while others will master them, but on the firing line when accuracy with absolute power is the main coarse of intent, it sure looks like we will continue to see those dominating, doing it with the Single Actions of the time for these obvious reasons as well as simplicity, especially when one single shot can mean the difference. In spray and pray competition, the Double Action will always prevail. Then for the hunter, most will turn the advantages the Single Action will offer, simplicity, better tuned actions for the purpose, and less irreparable damage to user over their lifetime.

This may not mean much for them using 38 calibers and smaller, but when you close in that 45 caliber and beyond it becomes more and more relevant, and for me those the most fun to shoot, I want to be able to shoot them as long as I can, and grin at what they do on the other end, that's what makes me smile.

[HABCAN]

contender1.......+1!! My experience exactly.........but then I started shooting handguns in '47. Elmer in his books was my guru.

[megasupermagnum]

I too would take the $20 challenge. I have handled & shot many custom big bore handguns,, and I understand recoil. I once had a shooter who had a BFR in 450 Marlin. He challenged me to shoot a full cylinder with it. We were at an indoor range, and the longest distance was 25 yds. Not only did I meet his challenge, I exceeded it by shooting 2 cylinders full. AND my grouping was one single ragged hole of about 2". I took his money too.

And your comments;
"The more I look at them, the more I think a single action grip frame can be made to work. It's just that the ones I end up shooting have the old west style looking ones that are essentially bell shaped. You might as well make a grip out of an icicle if that's your idea of a good shooter. They don't need to be soft rubber Hogues, but just something that at the very least isn't tapered. That is a design, made to fail.'

We have discussed this in many threads etc.
The tapered design DOES work for many,, when you understand the physics of recoil, AND are NOT fighting the recoil. You have even admitted fighting the recoil,, and by your constant comments about disliking the tapered shape, and wanting a grip shape you can "control" prove that you are unwilling to try & find a proper instructor, who can & will teach you how to shoot a SA plow handle. OR,, you are unwilling to accept the physics of how a SA works, and feel it is a design failure because you can't make it work in your hands. As noted by myself, and many others, ,,, the SA design can & does work quite well, and has for decades. The tapered shape you mention seems to be your main beef, because it isn't shaped like a DA design.
Look at a DA and look at a SA. The SA has the grip frame under the main frame, while the DA has it behind the main frame.
Next, if you want to understand it even more, do this;
Take a big wad of modelling clay, say the size of a baseball. Get a grip on it, and squeeze it until you get a hand shape. Next, look at it and you will see excess at the bottom, while at the thumb area, you will have less clay.
BUT,, all this aside,, you still refuse to accept the fact that you CAN control the recoil without fighting it. A SA can & does work, in the hands of those willing to learn how. Fighting it actually causes more felt recoil, and hinders accuracy.

I stand by my offer to teach you how if you are ever in my area.

I know you are right, on every point.

For myself it comes down to one thing, the gun slipping in my hand. Until I can get it in my head that this is ok, I won't make a good single action student. If I ever make it down to NC I'll be sure and call.

I shot the Scout pistol with the Hogue grips today. These work so much better for me. I was able to just get behind the gun and focus on the sights. If I come across a bisley Ruger, I'll be sure to give it a good look over.