Having toruble teaching someone to shoot.

[am44mag]

I've been trying to teach someone to shoot her new handgun, and I'm having no luck. I've told her how I shoot and from what I can tell she's doing exactly what I say to do, but she still can't hit the broadside of a barn from the inside... To give you an idea, my target board is 18"x18" and is probably 14-16" or so off the ground. I put a 6" target dead center on it, and she typically shoots either a foot or more low when standing 4 yards from the target, or she hits the ground. It's not the gun, or the ammo. I verified that. The gun is actually pretty accurate and pleasant to shoot (she likes it a lot). She shoots my larger gun better (4.5" XDM 10mm) (Yes, she can handle the recoil. She is NOT a girly girl), but is still not very good. I've also had her try out a few other guns with no success. She's not jerking the trigger from what I can tell (she says she's squeezing slowly), and she's lining the sights up like I do.

Any ideas?

Her gun is an XDs 9mm BTW.

[lefty o]

dry fire practice. if she is hitting low, and even hitting the ground she is jerking/yanking the trigger.

[am44mag]

dry fire practice. if she is hitting low, and even hitting the ground she is jerking/yanking the trigger.

Had her try that. The front sight BARELY dipped down occasionally, but always remained between the two rear dots and within her sight. A lot of the time, she could do it without the front sight moving at all.

[M-Tecs]

Don't use an aiming target. Just a clean piece of cardboard or paper. This way she will be only concerned with the sigh alignment.

Can she see the front sight clearly?

[Peregrine]

She must fundamentally misunderstand the desired sight picture or is flinching/jerking the trigger.

Literally draw her a picture of what the proper sight alignment is, then have her practice dry fire some, with the instruction that the sight alignment should not change before/after the trigger breaks.

[bob208]

go with a .22. get her used to shooting.

[BK7saum]

She is anticipating recoil or not watching the front sight as she presses the trigger.

Grip 60/40 with more pressure from support hand
Press trigger straight to rear - SLOWLY
Dry fire practice for muscle memory
Without her knowing, intermix dummy rounds or fired cases into magazine to "SHOW" her that she Is anticipating the recoil/Dipping the muzzle

The dry fire practice and skip loading with dummy rounds will be most productive.

Good luck. Women are usually easier to teach/instruct than guys who have developed a lot of bad habits, unless they are afraid of the gun. Doesn't sound like that's the case.

The grip is important to slightly relax the trigger hand/finger and not roll the pistol forward while pressing the trigger.

One other thing, you can press the trigger as she holds the pistol to show her that her sight alignment is correct. Next step is press the trigger with her finger between your finger and trigger to show her a slow and steady "trigger press"

[Bloodman14]

Can you install a laser sight on the gun? Any deviation from 'normal' should be apparent immediately.

[knifemaker]

I agree she is anticipating the recoil and jerking the gun downwards while pulling the trigger. To confirm this, you load the gun with a fired case, and do not let her know you did this and watch and see if the barrel jerks downward when she pulls the trigger. If this is the case, I also recommend using a 22 rimfire until she gets better and a lot of dry fire practice with her centerfire handgun.

[birch]

Load her gun, but keep her guessing. Maybe only load two in the mag........or don't load on at all. Rack the slide as if you were chambering a round, but give the gun to her empty. Watch the gun barrel to see what happens. My guess is she is pulling her muzzle down with the trigger.

If you work this a few times.......load 3........load 0.........load 2.....load 2......load 5......load 2.....load 0. She will not be anticipating a boom, and she can focus on her gun rather than the anticipation of a report and felt recoil. I have cured a few folks with this method. I also had a buddy help me do the same after I developed a flinch after shooting my 450 Marlin BFR revolver.

[crankycalico]

can we have a good picture of her hand grip on the "beast" of a gun?

sounds like she is rolling the gun forward while squeezing,, ie "dropping the front sight way below the rear sight groove"

[Tom W.]

The first time I took Lori I had my 22/45 along as well as my regular carry pistol. I explained about the sight alignment, and we had dry fired a bit earlier in the week, so she was ready. She said she had never fired a firearm of any kind before. I put the target up at 25 yards and let her shoot. I dunno where those rounds hit, other than the backstop. I reloaded the pistol and fired, the thing shoot as it should. I reminded her of the sight alignment and she proceeded to put ten rounds in the X ring. Then she was through. A few months later I bought her a Glock 17. She emptied the magazine in the 10 and X ring and just disregarded the pistol from that time on. I ended up selling it and in round about manner ended up with the CZ 75 SP01. That went with us to the Sheriff's office range where she had a ball knocking down steel plates with it. But I have to admit, while she is younger, much smarter, and a whole lot better looking than I am she isn't into firearms.

[Bazoo]

Try incorporating live and dry fire on the range. Start by dry firing 2 or 3 to every round of live fire. Increase the ratio of live fire slowly.

[trails4u]

All good advice.....and did most of which with the Mrs. The one that seemed to stick was very simply, just see the front sight when the pistol goes bang. She pretty much went from chunking dirt to center mass in about two magazines...

[244]

She is dipping. Best method I know of takes zero ammunition.

1) Get her in a good stance (isosceles, feet parallel to the target, or nearly so) with the majority of her weight on the balls of her feet, knees bent, forward lean at the hips, arms locked straight in front of her. (She should look like she is about to jump.)

2) Simulate a two handed grip with NO fingers pointing forward (take off jewelry too), ie NO GUN in hand.

3) Have her use her thumb as a "sight" and line it up with the target.

4) You stand to either side of her and rhythmically slap the flat face of her two handed grip. Fairly soft at first until she gets used to it, but it must be rhythmic, about 1 slap per second and a half.

5) Occasionally miss slapping her hands (miss low so you do not induce a ducking motion and ruin the drill). Do not impact her at all when you miss.

6) As she overcomes her dipping, slap harder to make her mind fight through the habit of anticipating the recoil, resulting in the dip (and therefore low misses).

Dipping results from our minds anticipating the recoil and pushing the pistol forward to counteract recoil. We get so good at anticipation that the dipping motion might not be visible, but the result is obvious on the target.

Once she gets her dipping under control, you can load a couple dummy rounds in her magazine as a spot check. Try to load these without her knowing you are doing so. Without recoil from an actual shot, if she is dipping it will become plainly seen. As an added bonus she will have to clear a stoppage to continue firing. (Tap, rack, roll, and ready)

Save your ammo and time and make sure she gets good at the first drill before using dummy rounds. You will see a dramatic improvement in 5 minutes and she will become much more confident too. It will take some time to retrain her brain to not dip over several sessions, so you both need to have patience.

[Moleman-]

Get her shooting a 22lr good first if you can. You can also use dummy rounds and trigger pull smoothness drills with them. If your gun will cycle them, try loading a couple empty cases or dummy rounds in the magazine to have them see if they're doing anything wrong. My buddy could dryfire just fine or if he suspected the gun was empty, but otherwise was almost throwing the gun anticipating recoil with a 1911 with light swc reloads. A couple mags with an empty case somewhere in it were enough for him to see how drastic it was. The 1911 I had at the time would feed empty cases so that was an easy thing to do. The one I have now won't so I'll have to make/buy a couple dummy rounds for that purpose. Also practice pulling the trigger with an empty case sitting on the front sight. She should be able to pull the trigger without the case falling off. Got my buddy so that he was decent with the 1911 and good enough to deer hunt with a 44.

[Greg S]

Ball, Dummie, ball, ball dummie, ect... That and dry fire practice. Line it up, break the shot. If you start getting tired, breathing (depletion of o2 blurring out) you end up pushing the shot off. Ball dummie drill will diagnose.

[RU shooter]

Not knocking you but but maybe she would do better in this learning phase with a female coach or one that's not close to her . I had similar issues with my woman at an indoor range the first time I took her out shooting . An instructor that worked there looked on as she struggled . He stepped in for about 15 minutes and it was like night and day after that . Sometimes it takes a a new set of eyes on the problem to find the right solution

[Lloyd Smale]

a 22 and if possible even a suppressed one. Noise bothers new shooters at least as much as recoil. Also make it fun. Put away ALL the paper targets and put some water ballons or clay pigeons out at 15 feet and let here get some confidence and gradually move them farther out. Another important thing for a new shooter is trigger pull. My wife shoots here lc9 well. Not spectacularly but good enough for bump in the night. Give here my full sized M&P or glock and she cant hit a barn door due to there 6 lb plus triggers even though they kick much less then her lc9. Probably the best "starter" pistol ive owned is my ruger 22/45 4 inch heavy barreled gun. Its heavy enough to stay steady and has a great trigger and accurate enough that if you miss its sure not the guns fault. Another mistake some make is to try to do it to fast. Shot 20 rounds and go home. When someone that isn't experienced shoots a lot they fatigue and that fatigue causes them to learn bad habits.

[jonp]

go with a .22. get her used to shooting.

Always. I've taught all of my girlfriends, my wife, my daughter and my son's girlfriends how to shoot. Always start them with my Single Six and move up. When switching to semi-auto's, start with a full size 9mm and move down in size with that caliber or after shooting ok switch to a full size 45ACP.

If she is hitting low then most likely she is anticipating the recoil. Load a revolver and don't let her see you leave one empty and watch the muzzle as she shoots. Every once in a while I find myself anticipating recoil like that and switch back to my Single Six for a bit before working back up. Not sure why I do it but it happens.

I've found that most new shooters are bothered by the noise as much as the recoil. Have the new shooter put in foam earplugs and then put on earmuffs over them.

Never thought it was funny to hand someone that never shot a handgun a 44Mag and laugh when they bang themselves in the head or dropped it when pulling the trigger. Shooting a firearm should be fun but not funny. It's serious business

[dale2242]

Shooting a hand gun involves a number of things to shoot accurately.
The two most important, IMO, are sight picture and trigger control.
She is jumping on the trigger anticipating the recoil.
The noise can also become a factor.
The 22RF suggestion is a good one...dale

[Mr_Sheesh]

Could be yanking the trigger or "pre-ignition syndrome" i.e. pushing the weapon away from her as she anticipates the round firing, doesn't sound like those though;

Could she be closing one or the other eyes, or both, at firing time? THAT won't help accuracy.

The dummy rounds idea is a GOOD one, it will show you what's going on in the first 2 cases; You can tell on the 3rd by watching her eyes.

Usually all guys have to do to get women to be GOOD shots, if she's interested, is be patient and explain things so that they understand.

[DougGuy]

One law of physics you cannot escape, if the boolit hit the ground, the front sight WAS POINTED at the ground. If the boolit hit 2' low, the front sight WAS POINTED 2' lower than the intended point of impact.

Her redemption lies in dry fire, being able to hold the sights STILL and drop the hammer, plain and simple.

[rking22]

All good advice. If she is hitting 14 inches low at 4 yards then the front sight is 1/2 inch misaligned! She is anticipating the recoil/noise and posiably closing her eyes as the shot brakes. Let her shoot a 22 from a rest, then her carry gun rested, and CLOSE. You can video hdr face as she sboots and from the side, then slow it down and watch. A coach that is a stranger to her may help and the dry/live drills. If she is steady in dry fire then you need the live fire to "fix it". Good luck, I have taught many to shoot, my son was the most trying, girls are easy(except wives)

[GregLaROCHE]

Starting with a .22 is a tried and proven way to learn to shoot.

[am44mag]

Thanks fellas for the suggestions. Next time we're able to get out and shoot some, we'll give them a try and see what helps her.

[contender1]

"Not knocking you but but maybe she would do better in this learning phase with a female coach or one that's not close to her . I had similar issues with my woman at an indoor range the first time I took her out shooting . An instructor that worked there looked on as she struggled . He stepped in for about 15 minutes and it was like night and day after that . Sometimes it takes a a new set of eyes on the problem to find the right solution "

The above is quoted for truth.

I have taught MANY NRA Women On Target clinics, RUN by my wife.
Get a proper instructor,,, who is a STRANGER to her. We have taught hundreds of ladies how to shoot,, and the one rule my wife makes is no woman is allowed to be taught by any male figure she is familiar with. In fact, the only men allowed in the classes, are my wife's hand picked instructors for their calm, patient, gentle nature when around ladies. (All are NRA instructors.)
Next,, as mentioned above,, start her out on a .22 as it has almost no felt recoil, and work UP to her handgun.
I could offer a lot more advice,, but there is a lot of good info above too.

[charlie b]

I agree with having someone else teach her. Always the best way, but, not always feasible.

The dummy round is the best way to diagnose. I do that to myself frequently with a revolver. Load three rounds at random, spin the cylinder without looking and shoot. After 40 years and many thousands of rounds I still find myself getting lazy and pulling shots.

My wife had the same kind of problem with rifles. Good sight picture, good trigger, dry fire perfectly. Could not hit anything. Turned out she was blinking her eyes shut just before pulling the trigger. She could not tell she was doing it. The recoil to her shoulder just bothered her so much she has yet to fire a rifle or shotgun without blinking. Yes, even with a .22 rimfire. So, she never shoots a shoulder weapon. But, she LOVES her pistols. She likes full power .357 and .45ACP loads especially. Go figure.

[Loudenboomer]

I teach kids Firearms Safety. One of the first things I look for in new students is eye dominance. I'll never mandate but I always encourage new shooters to learn to shoot what ever eye dominant they are. Sometimes this means Right handed people become left handed shooters and vice versa. It's not as big of a deal with a handgun as a rifle because the extended sight picture will cause the dominant eye to line up. Unless she is closing it! Make sure she is lining up the sights with her dominant eye. Keep it fun. Loyds idea of building confidence with an accurate, small caliber and good triggered gun is a good idea.

[Kenstone]

Put a dummy round or snap cap somewhere in the magazine, along with live ammo, but don't tell her.
You'll see the anticipating recoil trigger jerk when the dummy round is "fired"...and so will she :oops:
That's something dry firing a known empty gun won't show.
Pushing/squeezing the trigger can be tiring/hard work that often quickly fatigues a new shooter(and me).
jmo,
:mrgreen:

[Boolit_Head]

I always took a revolver and would load a couple of rounds then a fired case without them seeing. The first time it goes click and the gun jerks is eye opening to them. I'd then work with them shooting the revolver with me loading live and fired cases randomly till they could control their flinch.

[curator]

am44Mag:

Lots of good information here. No criticism intended, but if you are serious about teaching someone how to shoot why not take an NRA Pistol instructor class that will teach you how to teach this skill before hand? Better yet, find a good NRA pistol instructor and you and the wife attend together. You can take the basic pistol class in part online then contact an NRA instructor (maybe even at your local gun club) for the live-fire portion. The NRA has been teaching basic pistol shooting for nearly a century and they have an excellent instructional method that works. Who knows, you might even learn something at the same time.

[dverna]

Set her up on a bench shooting a scoped rifle. Anything with low recoil will do but I use a .22. Have her master trigger control first. Start on paper to determine if she is yanking the trigger. Then for fun shoot some pills or crackers etc. Keep it fun.

Then an iron sighted rifle to learn sight picture. Same as above.

Muscle memory is a bad thing if she learns to flinch...and she is flinching.


I was a public range one time and a guy was teaching his lady to shoot. The problem was he could not shoot either. She complained she could not hold the darn pistol steady. I offered to help. Had her hold the gun and I put my hand over hers and told her to just aim and I would squeeze the trigger. They look both looked at me like I was nuts. She shot a 2 "group at 7 yards, which was a LOT smaller than either of them were doing. They were dumbfounded. Told them they were both flinching and that little drill proved it.

[Idz]

In my Basic Pistol classes we spend the entire morning handling and dry firing guns so the students get over the 'OMG its a real gun!' nervousness. During live fire I tell them to watch the front sight and press the trigger as slowly as possible. Most of the women are dead-on accurate when they do that. You can buy the NRA Basic Pistol book for about $15 from https://materials.nrahq.org/nra-guide-to-the-basics-of-pistol-shooting.html which covers everything in the class.

[gwpercle]

My daughter came over with a Christmas present , her's not one for me, a S&W 38 special with a Crimson Trace laser sight !
That red dot projected on the target should be an excellent place to start a beginner. Could teach trigger controll first and iron sights next .
The laser came already mounted on the gun but since my eyes are getting old I'm thinking some Crimson Trace laser grips might be just the ticket for me.
We went outside and even in the daylight the red dot can be seen very well.
Gary

[charlie b]

My only problem with lasers is that everyone at the range can see your gun shaking :)

[jimb16]

I've been an instructor for 37 years. I'm going to mention something that nobody else has mentioned. Look at her posture when she is shooting. Is her head and neck held high and straight up? If she is "scrunching down" on the sights, that would cause the problem that she is having. Make sure she is standing straight with her head held high. Then go thru dry fire routine. After that, using a .22 go thru the live round-dummy round routine til she is comfortable. Also make sure she is not a left eye shooter trying to shoot right handed. Figure out which is her dominant eye then have her shoot with that hand as primary. If she is shooting cross dominant that can cause real problems as well.