Sabot lyman slug in a smooth bore?

[brewer12345]

I shoot a lot of 20 gauge for trap and in the field, all birdshot. I might want to fool around with slugs and the easiest ones to load on my existing setup would be a lyman slug (the ones that look like goat airgun pellets) in a wad with a fold crimp. I know theseare really meant for rifled barrels. Is it a non starter to shoot these in a smooth bore? Horrible inaccuracy? Figured I would ask before I go down the wrong path.

[W.R.Buchanan]

No it isn't a problem shooting them in a smoothbore. For what I have seen on Youtube, they seem to shoot better from a smooth bore with like an Improved Cylinder choke.

You won't know until you try it. If you can get 3" groups at 50 yards with a smoothbore I think you will have arrived.

Randy

[RogerDat]

I hope it isn't a fools errand to load those for smooth bore or rifled choke. I was planning on going down that road myself for 20 gauge and 12 gauge with improved cylinder choke or rifled barrel. I do have a little higher expectations from rifled barrel.

However testing and practice might be hard to do in larger quantities so my shoulder will be more than happy to borrow from what others can report works or doesn't work. Seems like nothing to go through 50 rounds of graduated loads or bullets with a .38 or .45 but 12 gauge gets really old waaay before 50 rounds of full power slugs have made target holes.

There are also some excellent threads on round ball slugs for 20 gauge. My current project. Look for posts or threads by superblazingsabots also known as Ajay he has provided myself and others with a wealth of slug and round ball loading information. Have a few hulls now that are nicely crimped .562 round ball in trap commander wad with .125 nitro card in wad under ball and one under wad with gas seal. These also have an overshot card to help get a flat crimp on a round ball. Using Blue Dot with expected velocity of around 12,000 to 14,000 fps. I tried the load with pretty bad crimps and it worked ok, didn't really set up targets for groups just looking for pressure signs and was I able to hit or near miss a clay pigeon on a bank. Used a cylinder bore choke. Just wanted to send a few down range while I worked out the kinks. I will say that I got some busted clay from near misses, turns out big round ball throws a lot of dirt and rocks around on impact. Even high and right broke that edge of the clay on one shot. Anyplace below the clay pretty much sprayed it with dirt and rocks to the point the clay cracked. I think I'm going to like round ball loads. Am sure grandkids will especially enjoy a jug of water target.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Roger: if you load your 12 ga slugs to around 1200 fps they aren't any worse than shooting #8 birdshot.

50 rounds is two rounds of Skeet or Trap.

The 20 ga should be no problem at all.

Randy

[RogerDat]

Roger: if you load your 12 ga slugs to around 1200 fps they aren't any worse than shooting #8 birdshot.

50 rounds is two rounds of Skeet or Trap.

The 20 ga should be no problem at all.

Randy The ones I was trying are expected to be closer to 14,000 fps out of a light Mossberg 500 junior, stock pad is old and hard as a rock. I think possibly steady hold vs. shooting in movement might also make a difference. With slug I'm braced to sight and hold, moving to follow allows a bit more give with the recoil. Also I think a solid ball delivers a different recoil than shot. Slug moves as one, shot of same weight I think absorbs the force by first compressing then moving out as a stream/cluster. Creating a less abrupt recoil. Though I don't really have any proof of that. Just how it seems.

I have a few I loaded with one grain less that should be a little lower velocity. Valid load data based on weight of round ball and powder. Slug wad stack is different. So just a few to check results. I did about 20 rounds in first batch and bruised my shoulder a bit. I can do as many from a 303 enfield or 8mm mauser without that. Come to think of it I can do that many 12 gauge bird shot without bruising the way I did from 20 gauge slug. I might want to engage the services of a crono at some point fairly soon. I just worry that some part of the wad stack or the wad itself will end up hitting the crono and doing it some harm.

PS I should confess I don't shoot shotguns all that often, typically between one to two boxes a few times a year is it. More often than not a handful each from across some different shot sizes and buckshot, maybe a box of 5 slugs. I don't think I have ever shot more than a box at launched clays at which I proved if you are small and move at even moderate speed I might well miss you with a shotgun if you are on other side of my yard. In my living room however odds favor me. :-) I now have a Mec and Pacific press plus around 450 pounds of assorted shot so that might change. Not to mention I made 150 #7 shot usable rounds while adjusting a Mec 650 that need to be used before they spoil or something.

[pipehand]

14,000 f.p.s.? How much BlueDot are we talking here?
Seriously, I don't yet own a 20 gauge, but I did buy one for my girlfriend. Remington 870 "Tactical" express with an adjustable Knoxx stock. Much lighter than my 12 gauge, and a real hoot to shoot. Since then I have acquired a MEC 600 jr in 20, and a Lee #4 buckshot mold, and have been combing the archives of this site for 20 gauge buck and slug recipes. Will need to collect more hulls. And possibly a Lee .575 roundball mold. And maybe a 20 gauge shotgun for me too.

[RogerDat]

14,000 f.p.s.? How much BlueDot are we talking here?
Seriously, I don't yet own a 20 gauge, but I did buy one for my girlfriend. Remington 870 "Tactical" express with an adjustable Knoxx stock. Much lighter than my 12 gauge, and a real hoot to shoot. Since then I have acquired a MEC 600 jr in 20, and a Lee #4 buckshot mold, and have been combing the archives of this site for 20 gauge buck and slug recipes. Will need to collect more hulls. And possibly a Lee .575 roundball mold. And maybe a 20 gauge shotgun for me too.

I wouldn't assume a .575 ball will be a good fit. Use a socket just under bore size, I think maybe 10 mm socket is about right. Place in wad and it should push through bore easily, add electrical tape to socket one layer at a time, repeat push through. When the resistance is around 10# measure socket + tape with caliper and you will know the right ball size. Or ask for sample balls from members, for mine a .575 was way to tight, I had those for a muzzle loader. Turned out a .562 ball was perfect snug fit.

Actually send me a PM with your address and I can send you samples of both .575 and .562 both in soft lead. Wads vary in thickness. Trap commander I used is one of the fairly thin ones and .575 was way too tight. Which is why you want to shove your intended wad and ball through bore with a wood dowel to confirm it is a snug but not too tight of fit.

I think 35 grains or so of Blue Dot, might have been 35.2 and I made a few with 34.5 to bring it down a little but I'm not where I can look it up right now. This was from a wealth of tested loads done by member superblazingsabots aka Ajay. He also suggested Longshot as a good powder. He did ask me to measure my barrel thickness to confirm it wasn't sub standard thickness.

Almost forgot: How do you like that #4 buckshot Lee mold?

[Petander]

I'm working with the Lee 575 ball here, mine is 574 and I like the feel how it pushes through two different 20 gauge barrels in a thin wall "trap wad". Even through 1/2 choke with some force. IC gives only very little extra resistance. A thick tungsten/steel wad that I have is too tight but that wad is good to go with a 553 Lyman style slug.

I haven't shot either yet, still figuring things out... need more wads to try... that ball needs a strong wad I think.

[RogerDat]

A 28 gauge nitro card of .125 thickness may well fit under the wad and another under the ball or slug. Those will add a good deal of strength to the wad allowing it to properly shove the slug or ball without to much give. 28 gauge nitro card will fit inside 20 gauge wad nicely. Imagine a 28 gauge over shot card would also for a thin amount of lift. The recipe I was given used one nitro card under wad with the cards inside depending on how tall the powder load was one might use between 1 nitro card and 3 under the ball to get proper height.

I'm going to look for that link to that very informative thread. Found it!
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?356262-Round-ball-in-20ga&highlight=20+gauge+round+ball

I really need to post some pictures of completed rounds just to let Ajay know his help bore fruit (pun intentional)

[Petander]

An excellent thread,thank you.

I have played around with 28 gauge fiber wads here. One in the cup under the SLUG (russian 265 grain Lyman-style) is good for a roll crimp in my case,kinda short hulls I'm experimenting with. Ball I will fold crimp, my recent wad is a tad tall for it,being about .40".

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[pipehand]

Rogerdat,
I am.liking the Lee mold. A bit tedious to cut the pellets apart, and I am working on my technique to minimize rejects.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings Roger Dat, I'm enjoying your progress and wish you the very best.

Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[rking22]

I was getting 3 inch groupes with the lyman 20ga, 50yards 3 shots at about 1250 to 1350fps. You will need a card underneath the slug or the wad will stick in the base causing a flier, and not just slight flier either! Still have the mold, sold the 37 and now more into 16ga for field work. Was fun experimenting! I bet that 14000fps load kicks!!!!! Might want to drop to 1400 to 1500......

[Petander]

I'm working with the Lee 575 ball here, mine is 574 and I like the feel how it pushes through two different 20 gauge barrels in a thin wall "trap wad". Even through 1/2 choke with some force.

Now a friend brought me a 20 gauge 870, it feels tighter all the way with the same ball/wad.The factory choke (mod ?) feels too tight for a 574 ball. Lots of force,I hammered it through.

Nothing new under the Sun - every barrel is different.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings Petander, if you feel the need to use a hammer, drop that project and start over again with 6 to 10 lbs for safety sake from a smooth bore like this backwards without a nitro card for fiction fit test:
https://i.imgur.com/2nkY5pd.jpg

Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[Petander]

Greetings Petander, if you feel the need to use a hammer, drop that project and start over again with 6 to 10 lbs for safety sake from a smooth bore like this backwards without a nitro card for fiction fit test:
https://i.imgur.com/2nkY5pd.jpg

Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

Yep,the ball is too much in this 870 setup. Slug is good with this wad/barrel/choke though. I push them both ways to feel the barrels,too. My B-guns are not this tight.

EDIT: but all in all this is a choke thing, I'm sure this 870 can digest this ball with IC, which I don't have. And my slug and ball are different,just observing here.

[Petander]

Our topic , the Lyman 20 gauge pellet slug diameter is 560-565,right?

I went on and "slugged" a fixed IM or maybe F choked combination gun , my 554 Svarog (Lyman style pellet) feels really nice and snug with the thin wall trap wad. I didn't even try the 575 ball,it would need a sledgehammer.

Lyman slug might be too tight right here but the size looks like about perfect for normal 20 gauge use with an appropriate wad. I want one but I'll tweak some girlie loads with the 265 Swarog first.

I apologize for suggesting 575 ball a good size before checking tighter chokes.

[MOA]

Well I've been looking through some of these threads, and one had images of a plastic support ring that was being used to help the 20 gauge shotshell from bulging out during reloading which I'm sure has happened to most of us at one time or another and I thought what a great addition to the tool box, so off to home depot I went today.
This is what I was able to find.

The tubing was a piece of CPVC 3/4". It was being sold in short lengths pre-cut from the full 20 foot length. About $2.16 ea. I have further cut them down into 7" lengths for storage purposes.
The items SKU# was 611942124114 it will work for the 20 ga. shells.

I then started looking for something that would work for the 12 and 10 ga. Found a plastic barb used to connect plastic hose together. Seems close enough to work for them both. It's called a nylon barb splicer. SKU # 887480002690. I will cut it in half and that should work too. Here's some images:

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[gpidaho]

MOA: Thanks for the share. For the .410s (They are the ones that give me the most problems) I expanded a 45-70 case using first the largest NOE expander that I had on hand to open up the case a bit and put a fair sized flare on it. Then, using pin gauges and my impact bullet puller I worked the case open for a slip fit over the 410 hull. After cutting the head off the case I had a nice brass tube to support the 410 hull in the crimp starter station where I was having problems with hull collapse. Gp

[RogerDat]

MOA I just found that 2' pre-cut section. Wish I had looked before taking a piece of thicker wall PVC I had and drilling, rasping, and filing into a good fitting ring. Yes, I made one, and it works but... ended up taking a hull to the Home Depot store and finding the off the shelf solution you posted. Waaay better option for 20 gauge than making your own. Will certainly be snagging one of those splicers for 12 gauge. Ring really does seem to help, especially if one uses a gas seal which seems to be tight enough to create a "seam" in the hull that becomes a fault line for buckling.

Ajay - I really will have to post pictures. Using a borrowed Versamec am getting nice crimps using your recipe and just moving support up a hole from the 2 3/4 hole in the press base. Need to get out where I can test them though. Pretty crimps is one thing, decent accuracy matters more. If I have both I'll probably make a nice batch to have on hand.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Good morning Roger, here is my secret everything I did was to help my friends here, seems like its helping.
Now I get my entertainment by watching you all do good with pictures. ( The only language I understand, Pictures )
Thank you.

Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[MOA]

RogerDat,
Glad they had it on their floor ready to go.
Always nice to not have to do something always the hard way.

[RogerDat]

RogerDat,
Glad they had it on their floor ready to go.
Always nice to not have to do something always the hard way. I was so excited to be able to use a piece of scrap pvc I had hanging around I just went full steam ahead. I always love it when my bits, pieces, parts etc. that I hold onto for years come in handy, I think excitement over using a bit of my own scrap clouded my judgment in this case.

[Petander]

Using a borrowed Versamec am getting nice crimps using your recipe and just moving support up a hole from the 2 3/4 hole in the press base.

I almost got a Versamec in 12 gauge but it disappeared from tracking during Christmas time. Ebay was quick to return me quite a bit more money than what I paid,also the seller got to keep his money.

All this happened before I even knew about a lost package.