Lead exposure

[fatelk]

Every once in a great while I ask the doctor to add a lead test to my annual physical. I hadn't done it in a while, and it came back at 8 this year. He said that it's not a level to be terribly worried about, but it is indicative of exposure and I need to figure out what's causing it.

The thing is, I hadn't cast anything at all for months, at least half a year or more I think. I've given it a lot of thought and have come up with a couple ideas that seem like possibilities routes of exposure.

The first is regarding brass. When I get home from the range I put my brass (and any extra I pick up abandoned at the range) in a bucket and wash it with a little soap and Lemishine (citric acid). I've often handled it with bare hands. I wonder if the citric acid and tiny amount of residual lead could be absorbed into bare skin? I have and use d-lead soap, and have been much more careful about hygiene when handling lead in recent years, but hadn't thought about citric acid allowing skin absorption?

The second is my garage. In the past I've casted in the garage a fair amount. I don't cast a lot like some others here, just off and on occasionally. I would cast with the garage door open and a small fan running. I had also tumbled brass in vibratory tumblers in the past, before I went to wet tumbling. My thought is that there could have been a bit of dust in the garage that could have contained a trace of residual lead. In the couple weeks before my physical I did a major cleaning and rearranging in the garage, and installed a vent hood for casting. Perhaps I stirred up and breathed this dust?

[poppy42]

Most likely from the range itself if it’s a indoor range.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I did a major cleaning and rearranging in the garage, and installed a vent hood for casting. Perhaps I stirred up and breathed this dust?

From everything you said, this one would be at the top of the list, IHMO.
Besides the dust from dry vibratory tumbling from days gone past...do you store ingots in the garage? are any of them oxidized? did you handle them or move them or dust them off with compressed air? ....while cleaning your garage?

[JBinMN]

If I am not mistaken, the US CDC says any level less than 10 is average for US adults.

That may not lessen your concerns, but it reads as though you may have exposed yourself more than normal by your own description of your activities that may have caused an increase in your blood lead levels. If you have done anything like remodeling in a home that had lead paint, or been exposed to lead from fuels or the like that might cause an increase from what you normally have shown( since you said you have had tests before), that might also be taken into account. Also, if I am not mistaken, lead will accumulate in the body and much will be excreted thru urine & feces, but the lead that has accumulated in bone will stay with you. Continued exposure will cause lead continue to accumulate as you age & would depend on your exposure to how much you would accumulate. If & it probably is, the case, then you will continue to accumulate lead in your bones as long as there is exposure to it. How much of course, is determined ny what levels you allow yourself to be exposed & how your body deals with that exposure.

Reducing by preventing inhalation, ingestion & skin exposure when you know you are going to be around lead, particularly in casting, and washing up afterwards will certainly help keep accumulation to a lesser amount, but as you already are aware of that, it is up to you to decide what precautions you should take & how much you think is the necessary amount of precautions to take to prevent accumulation.

With all that, perhaps you should try to mentally ( or even write it down) the times you think you are exposed to keep a bit of a "log" of your exposure & then maybe increase your visits to have the lead checked in your blood to more than just once a year. If nothing else, it will help give you a bit of "peace of mind" if you find that the levels remain the same, rise only a small amount or perhaps even reduce if this last test was just a "spike" due to your cleaning of the garage & having a bit more exposure than you intended.

I am posting to "try" to help & not to harm or cause issue & I hope you and others will understand this. I am no MD, but am only trying to help you sort this thru & maybe help not only others, but myself, in knowing more about such things as folks reply to your OP on this subject.

I have not yet ever had a test for lead, but I think I may now, even though I have another health issue which concerns me much more than lead & will certainly take me out of the game of life before I need worry about my lead accumulation. Meaning, to have a lead test, just so I know about it... I have another blood test I need to have coming up so I will request a lead test as well as long as they are yanking blood.

I hope you find that this was just a temporary "spike" and levels will drop again when you test the next time.
:)

G'Luck!
:)

[Peregrine]

I'd have to go with handling the brass. While inorganic lead is not absorbed readily through skin, or even ingestion, organic lead salts such as the lead styphnate in primers are both readily absorbed through the skin and taken up by the body. Lead salts are orders of magnitude more dangerous than organic lead in this way.

By washing the brass you're putting it into solution where it can quickly be absorbed. Just wear gloves when handling the solution.

It's also likely that the tumbling of brass in the garage and then disturbing the dust contributed because again, the lead salts in the primer are so much more readily taken up by the body that they are almost certainly the source.

[richhodg66]

Also wondering if the OP shoots a lot on indoor ranges. I personally hate indoor ranges for a lot of reasons, so never shoot on them.

Seems I've heard primer dust has lead in it, kind of makes me wonder if I should take more care when depriming than bullet casting?

[fatelk]

Thanks guys, for the quick responses. I'm not terribly concerned but I do want to have a solid understanding and establish some good practices to decrease exposure going forward. I also have young children and want to make sure there is no exposure for them.

The range I shoot at is outdoor only. I've never in my life shot at an indoor range; well maybe once now that I think about it. I had my first blood test maybe 10-12 years ago and it was 5, then 5-6 years ago and it was 7, so 8 isn't much of a surprise but I was hoping it would be less.

I just installed a vent hood for casting. I will be sure to wear latex gloves when cleaning brass. I do have several buckets of range scrap in the garage that need processed, but they don't get handled or moved around. My other ingots don't appear to have any oxidation. The range scrap I was going to take out to a friend's house out of town to process, set up a big fan and wear dust masks when we handle it. They've sat there for several years and I'm about out of ingots now so I need to do that soon.

[fatelk]

Seems I've heard primer dust has lead in it, kind of makes me wonder if I should take more care when depriming than bullet casting?

I've thought about that too. After sizing and depriming brass there's always primer grit and dust on the hard floor under the press. I try to always wipe it up with a damp paper towel but forget sometimes, then the kids come into my room and I'm sure it gets tracked around. I'm going to be religious about keeping it cleaned up from now on.

[GARD72977]

8 is nothing to worry about. In my job im testes a lot. Under 10 is very low. You are getting exposed to lead but not enough to worry about.

[bob208]

get your water checked. is it a private well or a public system? yes there are a lot of water systems still using lead pipe.

[Side by Side]

I've thought about that too. After sizing and depriming brass there's always primer grit and dust on the hard floor under the press. I try to always wipe it up with a damp paper towel but forget sometimes, then the kids come into my room and I'm sure it gets tracked around. I'm going to be religious about keeping it cleaned up from now on.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Just tested a 7 in lead level, test results shows 5 and under are not to worry about. I do cast in my garage at a window with a fan sucking, that will change, from today I’ll cast outdoors. I use a wet tumbler for brass, I dump dirty water out and sort brass and rinse without gloves. I always shoot outdoors. Not really sure what caused it to go up. Two years ago I tested 10, thought because I was welding a galvanized trailer in my garage that caused the numbers to raise. Six months later I tested a 6.

[LAH]

I wouldn't worry too much about moving outside to cast. The danger is lead dust from cutting sprues, etc. I use a wet rag to clean that up. The simple act of casting will cause you no problem. I've cast a couple ton in my time with little to no ventilation. I flux the alloy while making it up outside so don't flux while casting. My levels have never been over 6. Tumbling brass is a different animal. Be careful. I've dry tumbled & sold a few 1000 pounds of the stuff with no problem. Simply don't breath the dust & clean up with a wet rag.

[Ausglock]

I get tested every year.
The last 5 years have been, 10,13,12,11,11
The 13 was when I started wet tumbling my pistol brass.
Bare hands in the tumble water when rinsing the brass is a Huge NO NO!!
The skin absorbs lead fast.
When processing casts I am gloved and have flow through ventilation.
Temp is always below 730 Deg F when casting.
A friend had levels of 28... he shot at indoor ranges and covered outdoor range that has steel poppers under a roofed area to contain splatter. When resetting the poppers, you could actually taste the lead in the air.
I do not shoot at that range due to this issue.

[imashooter2]

As lead in the general population falls, the doctors keep revising “acceptable limits" down. You are not a developing infant. 8 is absolutely nothing to be even remotely concerned with.

[LAH]

As lead in the general population falls, the doctors keep revising “acceptable limits" down. You are not a developing infant. 8 is absolutely nothing to be even remotely concerned with.

+1+

[Old Caster]

Lead levels vary with where you live too. Missouri is the worst place for this because it is the only place in the US that lead is present in its natural form in dirt. Mining here used to be taking soft rock and crushing them in water so the lead would go to the bottom and the sand dust would flow away. Some places you can see the lead in the stones as very small pieces so obviously our numbers are higher than other states but not high enough to matter. You can check on the net as to what the acceptable level was in the past and just back to the 60's if I remember correctly it is was 40. I have played with lead bullets since the 60's when I was on the Bullseye team in the Army and the only time I had lead levels that were considered too high was when I went to an indoor range twice a week and called the line twice and then shot a match myself but it certainly did not hit 40. Several weeks with no indoor range and it was gone. Something to watch but don't get paranoid.

[fredj338]

THe greatest lead exposure you can get is the indoor range. Those shooting indoors will have a higher lead level than those who shun indoor ranges. I might shoot 2-3x a year indoors but shoot almost every weekend. I have been casting & shooting for 45y now. My lead level is measurable but single digits. Exercise & diet play a role too.

[georgerkahn]

I get tested every year.
The last 5 years have been, 10,13,12,11,11
The 13 was when I started wet tumbling my pistol brass.
Bare hands in the tumble water when rinsing the brass is a Huge NO NO!!
The skin absorbs lead fast.
When processing casts I am gloved and have flow through ventilation.
Temp is always below 730 Deg F when casting.
A friend had levels of 28... he shot at indoor ranges and covered outdoor range that has steel poppers under a roofed area to contain splatter. When resetting the poppers, you could actually taste the lead in the air.
I do not shoot at that range due to this issue.

Thank you, Ausglock for this post! I have spent many, many hours wet tumbling, and have always done it all bare handed. Thanks to this, your post, it will be Nitrile gloves on my mitts in the future! I'd never have thought of this!
geo

[ioon44]

My highest lead levels were from the 1990's when I was shoot on indoor range's. I also wet tumble but keep my hands out of the water and I am using Nitrile gloves more when sorting out lead.

[Ausglock]

Thank you, Ausglock for this post! I have spent many, many hours wet tumbling, and have always done it all bare handed. Thanks to this, your post, it will be Nitrile gloves on my mitts in the future! I'd never have thought of this!
geo

G'day George.
Being a commercial bullet maker, makes one very aware of lead levels.
And being an IPSC shooter, means I go through a lot of handgun rounds every year, So casting & reloading in a big part of my life.

[tinsnips]

Thanks for the tip on wet tumbling will now wear gloves.

[GregLaROCHE]

I wonder how much lead I am absorbing when my pot goes on a dripping spree and I get lead splattering. My levels are in the range with people who work with lead. It’s there, but seems to be within reasonable levels. I once had a high exposure that resulted in a very high test number that freaked everyone out. A month later it was way down and finally got to what is considered ok. They say some foods can help you eliminate it faster. I think garlic was one. Seems to be garlic is good for whatever ails you.

[Ausglock]

I wonder how much lead I am absorbing when my pot goes on a dripping spree and I get lead splattering. My levels are in the range with people who work with lead. It’s there, but seems to be within reasonable levels. I once had a high exposure that resulted in a very high test number that freaked everyone out. A month later it was way down and finally got to what is considered ok. They say some foods can help you eliminate it faster. I think garlic was one. Seems to be garlic is good for whatever ails you.

I was told that full cream milk will help lower lead levels.

[Rickf1985]

I was told that full cream milk will help lower lead levels.

And make you fat in a hurry! Funny because growing up I worked on dairy farms and drank raw milk right from the milk tank. No Pasteurization, no homogenization. Just right from the cow. Never got sick and never broke a bone. Didn't get fat mainly because I was young and working 16 hour days on a farm which is very hard work back in the 70's. Didn't have all the automation they have now.

[Old Ears]

I probably should get tested. I'm an A/V technician who when I started 45 years ago would hold the solder in my teeth as a third hand while soldering connections. Not the smartest thing I ever did.

[imashooter2]

Did you stop the practice 20 years ago?

[Side by Side]

I started using disposable gloves when handling fired brass and wet tumbling. I have a 8x8’ building I shoot out of during the winter, it has a bench and a brass catcher in it, I’m going install a fan to push everything out the front double doors when shooting. I use this all winter especially with snow on the ground, saves a lot of time searching for brass, sometimes impossible with 12” snow.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GregLaROCHE]

I wonder how much lead I am absorbing when my pot goes on a dripping spree and I get lead splattering. My levels are in the range with people who work with lead. It’s there, but seems to be within reasonable levels. I once had a high exposure that resulted in a very high test number that freaked everyone out. A month later it was way down and finally got to what is considered ok. They say some foods can help you eliminate it faster. I think garlic was one. Seems to be garlic is good for whatever ails you.


You can be treated in a hospital to remove high amounts. My doctor wanted me to go in for the procedure, but I didn’t want too. Tested again in a month and it was way down and six months even better. Probably because most was in my soft tissues and not have a chance to start getting into my bones. I probably have some in my bones to from growing up in the leaded gas era. Car engines were a lot dirtier back then and I would wash all the black grease of my hands and arms with gas, before using a hand cleaner. Small amounts over a long time is a lot worse than a big amount at one time like I had.

[justindad]

I wonder how much lead I am absorbing when my pot goes on a dripping spree and I get lead splattering.
I wondered about that too, but wasn’t concerned until I felt a tiny spatter hit my nose. It had to be tiny to fly that far and not be hot, but I’m certain that is was drip spatter. I’m thinking about placing a deeper pan under the pot than my ingot mold, so there’s a wall to stop the spatter.
*
Also, I read orange juice and high iron vegetables are good for getting lead out of your system. Chewing spirulina tablets is a good way to get iron.

[Rickf1985]

Well, I still have two bullets in me that have been there since 1971. My lead levels are perfectly normal. I was told by the doctors when I asked about that that the lead gets encapsulated in calcium and goes nowhere. I have no idea if that is true or not. I would think that if it is encapsulated in calcium, which is bone, then it would be in the bones and blood. Oh, I have been splattered more times than I can count too. That just burns and comes right off with the burned skin though. I also knocked one of those little one pound lead pots that you used for lead soldiers over onto my hand when I was about 12 years old and burned all the skin off my left thumb. They grafted skin from my butt onto the thumb.

[kevin c]

Spatter might be a contamination issue for your casting area, and can cause superficial burns, but I really doubt it can get into your body unless you swallow it. The particles are too big to be inhaled, and what you touch or otherwise get on you skin can be washed off (just don’t suck on a just burned spot).

[brassrat]

I had blood tests done, last summer and opted for a lead test. I think it was 11. I shoot often, at an outdoor range and never inside. Cast rarely and outdoors. I tumble like crazy on and off and it was 24/7 for six months right before the test. I tumble in my closed up, good sized, apt. and try to keep the dust down with auto polish. I was happy with the test

[Side by Side]

On 2/1/21 I posted I took a lead blood test, it came back a 7. Two years ago I tested a 10, six months later it was down to 6. Today I get a call from the doctors office that ordered the test, they are referring me to a blood specialist. My wife asked why they said because my numbers are up and down. What the Hell?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Charlie Horse]

What's this I hear about oxidized lead? How bad is it? All lead is oxidized, isn't it? (Unless it just came out of the pot.)

My numbers have been under 10. 10 was the limit until about 5-10 years ago then they lowered it to 5.

[Side by Side]

Lead Exposure

Went to my appointment with blood specialist, she said 7 is nothing to worry about, CDC levels for treatment is 45. Dr said you basically have to eat lead for your levels to get that high. Dr did take a blood sample to check iron levels and for being enemic. Low iron levels will affect the numbers.Levels may be elevated from 35 yrs of used motor oil on my hands being a truck mechanic. There are a lot of heavy metals in used oil. I need to start wearing gloves when working on engines, transmissions and differentials.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Rickf1985]

For many years I used to wash my greasy hands in the parts cleaner bucket half full of leaded gas. If you got a cut you cleaned it in the same bucket. I have never had high lead levels.

[imashooter2]

Lead Exposure

Went to my appointment with blood specialist, she said 7 is nothing to worry about, CDC levels for treatment is 45. Dr said you basically have to eat lead for your levels to get that high. Dr did take a blood sample to check iron levels and for being enemic. Low iron levels will affect the numbers.Levels may be elevated from 35 yrs of used motor oil on my hands being a truck mechanic. There are a lot of heavy metals in used oil. I need to start wearing gloves when working on engines, transmissions and differentials.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Congratulations on having a doctor that knows their business. I just shake my head when I see all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over 5 or 10.

[imashooter2]

On 2/1/21 I posted I took a lead blood test, it came back a 7. Two years ago I tested a 10, six months later it was down to 6. Today I get a call from the doctors office that ordered the test, they are referring me to a blood specialist. My wife asked why they said because my numbers are up and down. What the Hell?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Your doctor is a skilled contractor. No different than the guy that fixes your car or pours your concrete. Tell them no.

[Thundermaker]

Lead does leave the body. It leaves through hair and fingernails. That's why you shouldn't chew your nails.

[Martin Luber]

A really Bad source is lead from bullet traps where it is pounded into dust. That and corroded/ dusty lead shot. Bought a sealed bag that turned out to have been in a flood. Lead level was previously 11, now 21.
Only change in my routine was that 1 bag.

[kevin c]

The difference between a lead level of 6 and 7, done a year and a half apart, is meaningless as far as adverse health effects go. At the very most, since it didn’t drop further from the “high” of 10, it might indicate a low level of ongoing exposure.

My levels are higher, but stable, and I have no symptoms.

Might have been a CYA referral by a liability shy doc. Being a retired MD, I know it’s not uncommon.

[jsizemore]

Doctors got to make a boat, plane, alimony payment just like everybody else. If you have health insurance they like you to use it.