Wow..Federal 338/308

[StarMetal]

Wow!! Federal, in conjunction with Sako has come out with a 308 necked to .338. Federal has two loadings for it. Gee, we're getting closer to the 358 Winchester everyday.

Joe

[waksupi]

Wow!! Federal, in conjunction with Sako has come out with a 308 necked to .338. Federal has two loadings for it. Gee, we're getting closer to the 358 Winchester everyday.

Joe

Joe, Mike Nesbitt sent me that story a couple days ago. I told him the jacketed bullet shooters were behind the curve, as cast bullet shooters have played with this combination for some years. Mike is also a serious cast bullet shooter, but I haven't been able to get him over to this board yet. Too busy writing for the muzzleloader rags and Gun List, I guess.

[StarMetal]

Waksupi,

Yeah, it's old. I toyed with the idea of making up a .338-06 like almost 20 yrs ago. I was impressed by it's performance. That little 308 case is spawning quite a family.

Joe

[RugerFan]

Do you have a link to this story? I didn't see anything about it on either the Sako or Federal site.

[StarMetal]

In's in the latest Guns & Ammo magazine in an article called "what's new for 2006 from the Ammo Manufacturers". That's all it said what I posted here. I would imagine it will be on the websites in due time.

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

Ammohead has made good use of the 338-06, which has the rep for being a good game-taker. I'm sure the 338-08 will do nearly as well.

Both the 30-06 and 308 have spawned a whole truckload of new calibers. I'm still blissed out with the 9.3 x 62, so I won't be buying one of the new 33's any time soon.

[The Nyack Kid]

Deputy Al
my ol man has a 9.3x62 and he think's it is the best thing since .... smokeless powder. I dont see any need for anything other than the 9.3 in that big gap between the 30-06 and the 45-70. aint it funny but everything a guy really needs has been around for the last 100 years ? the 338-08 has been a wildcat for some time now. IMO this is just another market ploy to sell guns , how much differant is it from the 8x57 really ? but then thats not the point .

[StarMetal]

Kid,

You're just looking at it from one angle. The 338-08 would be made up on a medium length action. An 8x57 Mauser would have to be on a long action. So the 338-08 then makes a nice little lighter package that still provides a big 8x57 Mauser punch.

Joe

[waksupi]

Al, what diameter are your 9.3 bullets?

Mike sent me this story link:

http://www.outdoorwriters.atk.com/default.asp?menu=1&s1=3&s2=8&id=80&brand=5&year=2005

http://glarp.atk.com/press/press_release/hi_res/Vital_Shok.338_Federal.jpg

[The Nyack Kid]

starmetal your point has merit , untill i thought of the 325 wsm and why they went with that instead of the 338wsm . this is like the 7-08 vs the 7x57 argument . ive got a 7x57 on a mauser 98 action that is a petty light package .one more cartridge to muddy the water. it is not needed but then everybody wants a cartridge named after them .

[9.3X62AL]

Ric--

The 9.3mm bullets/boolits are nominally .366".

The ballistics claimed for the new caliber aren't bad--I esp. like the 210 Partition at 2630 FPS. I'm thinking the 338-'06 runs these to about 2750-2800, and the Win Mag gets 2950-3000. A lotta whack from that little 2"-long boiler room. The telling factor is whether canister powders will allow the reloader to achieve those claimed velocities in the 20"-22" barrels that the short action length would cater to.

For comparison's sake, Euro loads with a 232 grain 9.3mm bullet run near 2750 FPS. Nosler 250 BalTips can run 2600 FPS safely, and the 286 grain Partitions can go 2450 or so. I'm guessing that field ballistics between the "8.38 x 51" and 9.3 x 62 at 100/200/300 yards will be pretty close as to trajectory, but since there's roughly 20% more boiler volume and 30% more bullet weight in the 9.3, energy figures aren't a fair comparison. Or a very valid one--"paper" energy poorly directed doesn't harvest anything. As a tag soup consumer this year, I can say this from experience.

One very practical advantage the 338-08 shares with the 9.3 x 62 (and 358, and 35 Whelen, and 338-'06) over the fattened or belted calibers is magazine capacity in conventional rifles--2 more rounds in the box. This is a factor in bear country, and my little interlude with the blackie in the berry patch decided the matter for me--5 of the 9.3 rounds over 3 in another 338 with the rifle filled up. That "40% more ammo at hand" was pretty comfy in Alberta, with grizzlies at least in the back of your mind for a week or so.

[NVcurmudgeon]

One area where the new .338/08 Federal lacks flexibility is in using cast pistol boolits for very light loads. You can use .38s in .35 cal. rifles, and Makarovs in 9.3s. But then the ammo factories don't design their new offerings for us!

[StarMetal]

Kid,

Yeah you can make up a lightweight rifle, but again you're only looking at it from one angle. Thing is a shorter action is stiffer, thus theoretically makes for a more accurate rifle. You don't see benhresters shooting long actions or cartridges anymore.

Deput Al

Well listen to this Allen: Specs for the new Federal 338-08 round are 180 gr Nosler AccuBond at 2750 fps, a 21 Nosler Partition at 2550 fps, and a 185 Barnes Triple-Shock at 2700 fps. Not to darn shabby for a stubby little case. Makes no sense to have the 338-06.

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

The 338-'06 makes plenty of sense--but the 338-308 is no slouch, either. I don't see the caliber as a bench-rest chambering, but as a lever rifle caliber it would be GREAT in a Savage 99. I'm assuming the new rifles will come with the 1-10" twist that the 33 caliber usually features, far better than the usual 1-14" or 1-16" twists given the 35's for the heavy-for-caliber bullets. The Hornady 225 grainer needs a test drive in this caliber, methinks......

All those 180-210 grainers make me think the caliber runs out of gas as sectional densities expand. The 308 is about done in the game fields at 180 grains, the velocities fall off too fast at higher weights with the smaller boiler room. This is the principal advantage the '06 holds over the 308--and to varying degrees with the 358 vs. 35 Whelen and 9.3 x 57 vs. 9.3 x 62.

[StarMetal]

Al,

I don't think we'll see a lever gun as Sako is in conjunction with Federal on this round. Of course at one time Sako did make a lever rifle, the FinnWolf I believe. Kinda looked like a Win Mod 88.

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

The Finn Wolf might still be in production, just not imported into the USA. What a hunting rig THAT would be! I think one of our Finnish board members mentioned the use of a Finn Wolf rifle--maybe he could enlighten us on its European or Scandinavian availability. Of course, there's always the BLR, too.

[Herb in Pa]

That should be a good caliber in a Remington pump also!

[versifier]

Al, I'll agree instantly that the greater powder capacity makes all the difference with 180+gr bullets in the .308 vs. the -06, at least with jacketed bullets. Do you really think that makes much difference considering the lower velocities/pressures that cast bullets generate? I have really never worked seriously (beyond the "load a handful and see if they even hit the paper" stage) with anything cast bigger than 180gr in either case and am curious. Isn't the loading density lower in the bigger cases, even with the big ones?

[45 2.1]

This cartridge was written up in the Fouling Shot by Frank Marshall Jr. some years ago before he died. He used the Lyman 250 gr. cast and got very good cast results at long range. Won several bets shooting consecutive milk jugs at 300 yards with heavy hunting loads.

[felix]

My personal criteria for case size selection is to check out the capacity to barely make 2400 fps for the boolit of my choice. That is my limit for a lead boolit. I then would select the twist necessary to allow that one boolit to make the yardage contemplated, while shooting through a minor amount of wind gusts, no gales.

For 300 yards, I'd select a boolit having 1.2 inches in length, with 20 percent nose length at 50 percent meplat, and using a 14 twist in a 338 gun. Now how heavy of a boolit is that?

Now, figure case requirements to make 1200 fps at 300 yards with that boolit.

That would be a perfect setup for that milk jug application. ... felix

[The Nyack Kid]

sorry StarMetal i fell for all the marketing hipe with the 300wsm all i can say is i aint falling for it again . how populer was the 338-08 before fedaral "lagitimized it ? i see the 338-08 going the way of the 358 winny and the 338-06 after the hipe has gone down . methinks the 358 is a better cast cartridge than the 338s .
felix with the specs that you laided down you going to have to be in the 275-280 gr boolit .

[StarMetal]

The new short fat magnums do have some credible hype. That short stubby case is more efficient in using the powder and more inherently accurate. This bores out with benchrest cartridges. They also have a shorter lighter action which results in a slightly longer useable portion of the barrel. They are a good concept. If you have the older version magnum should you sell immediately and buy the new short magnum...no. But these are the wave of the future I do believe. Yes the old round will hang around along time. I don't believe they came along with these short cartridges as a sells gimmick, they do that with all the mind boggling assortment of different models and stocks. I don't think the 338-08 will set the rifle world afire either. Yes the 358 was a good round that kinda didn't catch on. This country has always been hung up on the 30-06, 270, 30-30 and a few others. It took the 308 a while to get going and hadn't it been a military round I don't think it would have made it either.

So would you rather the see the firearms industry make and come out with nothing new and keep on keeping on with the old stuff or what? Me..I don't like to live in the past, I like to move on to the future.

Joe

[Johnch]

338-08 and 338-06
What is wrong with the 8-06 I have in the safe ?

I plan on trying a few cast thru it this year

[smilie=b: To many guns and not enough time to play !! [smilie=b:


Johnch

[9.3X62AL]

Vers--

One part of the rationale for changing out the 30-06 for the 308 in the early 1950's was that a lot of case space was wasted when IMR-4895 was loaded under the 150 grain M2 ball projectiles--so why not eliminate that 1/2" of wasted case and have a shorter stroke mechanism for self-loading weapon systems?

The wasted space largely goes away when larger weights of slower powders are used with heavier bullets in the 30-06.....IMR-4350, IMR-4831, and to a lesser extent WW-760 and H-414. For cast bullet applications, I can't really say--I never tried cast in the 308 when I hunted with it, and went to the 30-06 in the late 1980's and never looked back. Someone else that has experience with both the 308 and 30-06 using cast might shed some light on this for you. Both calibers have done some phenomenally accurate shooting with both cast and jacketed bullets over the years, that's a certainty. After using both extensively with jacketed bullets, I voted 30-06 by virtue of its potential for better work with 180 grains and heavier bullets.

[Bret4207]

Anothert new/old cartridge thats unneeded, but less so than the short mags, super short mags, etc. Won't do anything a 358 Win won't do, but does have a better long range bullet selection.