Babbit! Again?

[xr650]

Is babbit useable for a hardening agent like lino or just a source of tin?

I am casting some Lyman 311041 173 gr. boolits. I intend to use these in 30-06.
Lyman 49 tells me 2463 fps max w/ IMR-4198 38.5 grs.

I melted this babbit off conecting rods.
Started to melt at 450 deg. Oatmeal left at 575 deg.
I cast some 311041 with this babbit at 600 - 625 deg.
Boolits weighed 119.04 gr. average. These did not have complete fill out.
Hardness:
11 Saeco (BHN 27-28) day of cast.
12 Saeco (BHN 35) 5 days after cast.

I am going to try ACWW, WDWW and a babbit alloy.
What hardness am I needing?
What is a ratio starting point for alloying with babbit?

I appreciate any and all comments.

[Echo]

Sounds like tin-based babbit - use it to make the mold behave, adding some to help fill out.

[Tom W.]

I've used Ni Babbitt for years to pour bullets. They came out light and hard as ,well, they were hard. I've since taken to using it to alloy with my W/W, it adds tin, but still hardens up the bullets somewhat.

[xr650]

Thank you for the info gentlemen.

I tried to make a batch of #2 a while back. My tin content apparently over balanced the antimony and them boolits were soft.
I'll add a little at a time and see if I can make the alloy harder.

[454PB]

Tin based babbitt should not be BHN 35, I'd say there is something else in it (like copper) making it that hard.

[44mag1]

Is it possible that there is zinc in the babbit

[xr650]

454PB,
If there is copper in the babbit, will it hurt to cast with it?

45mag1,
It seemed to cast well even though I didn't have it as hot as it needed.

[GabbyM]

copper in the babbit is what makes it good.
Acts as a hardening agent. just use it like you would tin. Save $7 per pound on the tin.

[454PB]

In small percentages, copper doesn't hurt anything. However, if it IS copper making it that hard, it is not a small percentage.

I'm not aware of any babbitt that contains zinc.

[Boerrancher]

I used babbitt as bearing material for years in some of the old Drill Rigs I ran. I don't recall ever getting any that contained zinc. I was always picky about it because I liked to use a bit of it every now and then to harden up some of my rifle boolits.


Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[felix]

Joe, there have been many formulations of babbit over the years. There are no guarantees except that it contains primarily lead, or primarily tin. Other elements could be added as low as a half percent (likely if it has nickel at all) or as much as 50 percent, such as a 50-50 lead-tin. ... felix

[Lloyd Smale]

The old timers used it to harden lead. thats were 20/1 and 30/1 came from. they were both popular alloys for mag pistol bullets years ago. Problem is that tin doesnt do all that well at hardening. thats why they had to use high percentages like 20/1. With the big boom in auto sales and the poor original tires on them that needed to be replaced often started putting ww into the market place for casters. then when type set printing got replaced by computers the lineotype begain to be available. Your tin can harden bullets to a certain extent but using ww and linotype is a much easier and cheaper way to get there and to get hardness that the oldtimers never dreamed of. Elmer keith sang the praises of 20/1 and 30/1 but i cant help but to believe if he were hear today hed be using ww and linotype. straight ww will work for most aplications and is made better with about 3 percent tin for fillout. If your really pushing cast handgun bullets or have to break big bone #2 or 5050 ww/lyno is hard to beat. Either of those alloys will take care of most rifle shooting too. Alot of the guys here water drop and like it. I dont care for it. Ive done lots of penetration testing and water dropped bullets have failed more then alloyed bullets in the testing ive done. Now water dropping does have its place. If all i had was ww and pure id mix them 5050 and water drop them. That will get you close to #2 and theres enough soft lead in the mix to keep the bullets from becoming to brittle.

[BABore]

Lloyd,

Actually a mix of 50% sorted WW's (no stick-ons) and 50% Pb will cast air cooled boolits at 9-10 bhn. If you water drop or OHT them, they will come out at 20-22 Bhn. Same as linotype yet less brittle. I've tested them side by side.

[xr650]

This sure is some great info from you folks.
I appreciate all the help.

[madsenshooter]

For you babbitt lovers out there, I have a metal engineering book coming that should list the metal content of most of the babbitts. If the Ni babbitt used by Tom W. above was 4X, it contains 3.25-3.75% Cu. Just got a great deal on some marine engine babbitt today, 8lbs for $18. With tin @$20/lb and marine engine @ 89-92% tin, that's 7 lbs of tin, or $140 worth for $18! I got the engineering book because I was curious about some babbitt I have called Phoenix metal. It's hard and tough, compaing it to Stonewall babbitt which has a hardness of 23 on its own, is about the same as comparing wheelweights to pure lead. Knock an ingot of each together and see which gets dented the most. (Scientific testing)

[Lloyd Smale]

i was gettting 15-16 water dropping it and about 20 oven treating it. I guess a small differnce in the ww or purity of the lead could have caused the difference. I guess just the fact that no two hardness testers ive used read the same could explain it.
Lloyd,

Actually a mix of 50% sorted WW's (no stick-ons) and 50% Pb will cast air cooled boolits at 9-10 bhn. If you water drop or OHT them, they will come out at 20-22 Bhn. Same as linotype yet less brittle. I've tested them side by side.