Semi autos and reloading

[crankycalico]

Well im really curious here everyone. Although 9mm may be the cheapest to shoot for factory ammunition, and in regards to recoil.

Is it better to get a bigger caliber for a semi auto if you intend to mainly go with cast bullets in it?

I see lots of horror storys on here about loading 9mm with cast and just wonder if its worth the hassle till you get something it likes.

[tazman]

I see a lot of those stories here as well.
I usually won't try to make too many suggestions for people having trouble with the 9mm since there are way too many variables in the different firearms. You never know exactly what you are dealing with.
It seems like every single one of the 9mm pistols out there is chambered differently.
That said, I don't have any problems getting mine to shoot well and I have 8 different 9mm handguns.
Yes, there are some differences among them as far as chamber dimensions. I really only have 3 pistols that need boolits with a different size than the rest, and they all take boolits a couple of thousandths smaller due to match chambers.

[edwin41]

i think the slight taper of the 9 mm casings and the chamber that goes with it is the main issue with castboolits in 9 mm.

this slight taper was made to get a positive feeding for semi automatic weapons but more so for the sub-machine guns of that era.
due to this taper it is difficult to get a casted boolit , wich has to be a little bigger for a gasseal , to chamber properly .
due to design , the casted bullet will likely to be downsized in the casing when reloaded.

the . 45 auto would be a far better choice for reloading castboolits , the walls of the casings are not taperd but straight , plus the .45 auto
operates at far less pressure than the 9 mm .
normal operating pressures of the .45 auto are nowhere near the pressures generated by the 9 mm !

[trapper9260]

All the 9mm I have and shoot mainly cast I have no problems with any of them to chamber and cycle. They take what ever I put in them.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Of course you should get another gun...always!

9 mm can be cranky but nothing that can’t be overcome with patience and perseverance.
The brass varies a lot because of all the manufacturers, different countries, different quality, thickness, hardness, length... Then the barrels often have no leade, can be loose or tight, groove diameter can vary. But once you get it working, the 9mm is very efficient. The small powder space means low extreme spreads, good ignition, small amounts of powder give good power and the boolits use very little lead.

If you already have a 9mm, get your stuff together and dive right in. I’ll bet by this time next year you’ll be an old hand at reloading 9mm. Yes you’ll probably solve some problems, but that will also deepen your knowledge and abilities. But of course, you need another gun...bigger is better...well then you’ll need to get into revolvers... and 32’s are always better... and of course everyone needs a 357...and 10mm is really a good one in autos...and if you do 10mm you should get a 40 to go with it...and 44 is so iconic...

[GhostHawk]

I went the other way. I went down the 9mm road and was lucky enough to find what works for all of mine.

But instead of going larger I stumbled across the .32sw long. A match made in heaven.

Rimmed case, so no worrys about headspacing on the mouth.
I have many 30 cal molds, 2 90 grains, plus a 00 buckshot mold that when run through a lee .314 sizing die makes a fine bullet that shoots well.

All of them run just fine on 2 grains of Red Dot.

Cheap on lead. Just need a good supply of small pistol primers.

And for me, both the H&R 732 2.5" barrel, double action and the Ruger new model single six in .32H&R mag shoot my .32sw long ammo wonderfully.

Low recoil, (easy on old wrists and hands) Low muzzle blast. (bigger hand cannons tend to rattle my brain making follow up shots not near as accurate)

The little H&R I call Blackie is easy to carry concealed in a IWB holster.

The Ruger H&R Mag likes to be refered to as "Her Royal Majesty" or Princess. And is more for open carry in woods walks. 6" barrel.

I hear a lot of noise about "never carry anything below 9mm"
I think I have figured out part of why that is.

To someone with Military or LEO experience, a threat who gets away is a lose for them.
They want them there where they can put the cuffs on them.

To a private citizen who is accosted late at night, threatened, etc. Who finally pulls a gun. (shoot or not matters not) When the threat runs away, they are no longer threatened. That is a WIN for them.

Better in my opinion to carry something that you have ever confidence of putting a round into a chosen eyeball at 20 feet or less. Than to carry something where you may or may not connect with a head shot at the same range. That difference is BIG.

The smaller guns are easier to hide, cheaper to shoot, making it easier to practice more often.

And you can say what you like. But I truly believe that if you put a round, any round, even .22lr into someones eyeball. I don't think they are going to be concerned about YOU any more. They are going to be totally self absorbed into their lost eye. If they are still alive to think at all.

My opinon, yours may vary.

Back in the 80's I knew a Navy Seal, DD'd out. He was coming up the steps from a basement bar in Germany, a person who knew him pulls out a gun and puts 3 .22lr into his chest.

He chased that person down, broke his neck, killed him dead on the spot.
Now to me he was justified. But the powers that be decided that was not fair play.

But if the shooter had put one in his eyeball, would he have moved off the spot?

The 3 in his chest just ticked him off.

[Wheelguns 1961]

When I bought my first 9mm, I originally thought that, with the cheap ammo I would not reload for it. Turns out, I couldn’t achieve any accuracy with the factory loads. My gun was calling for fatter bullets. So after some tinkering (which I enjoy) I now have a couple of very accurate 9mm’s. To me, it all comes down to maximizing the performance of all my guns.

[slughammer]

Depends on your abilities with a handgun and your intended distance of shooting.

Jacketed projectiles in 40 & 45 are prohibitively expensive in quantity. For me 45 is lead only and 40 is either lead or painfully splurging on clad. I've never bought jacketed projectiles for either. 25 yard accuracy with lead is no problem in an accurate pistol.

9mm projectiles on the other hand are affordable in bulk FMJ. If you are only shooting 7 yards, lead is fine and easy. If you want 25 yard accuracy with lead, then the work starts.

[Bigslug]

Kinda depends on your current level of experience both casting and handloading. I would probably NOT recommend 9mm as your first effort for a cast bullet gun, as it does tend to throw some quirks into the basic process.

My solution was a .38 S&W sizing die to open the cases a little bigger coupled with harder alloys. YMMV.

[Petrol & Powder]

Reloading 9mm with jacketed bullets is not difficult at all. Reloading 9mm with cast bullets isn't extremely difficult but it does pose some challenges. I think some of the horror stories are a bit over the top.

I agree with the comments by Bigslug, I wouldn't recommend 9mm as your first efforts in reloading if you intend to load cast bullets. the problems are not insurmountable but it is a more difficult starting point.

[JBinMN]

Well im really curious here everyone. Although 9mm may be the cheapest to shoot for factory ammunition, and in regards to recoil.

Is it better to get a bigger caliber for a semi auto if you intend to mainly go with cast bullets in it?

I see lots of horror storys on here about loading 9mm with cast and just wonder if its worth the hassle till you get something it likes.

Some folks like the challenge of that "hassle" you mention.
;)

[9.3X62AL]

The 9mm, 40 S&W and 10mm are not my idea of "Beginner calibers" for self-loading pistol/cast bullet exploration. The 45 ACP has a known & established track record as a VERY lead-friendly caliber and a large body of reloading data tuned to that niche very closely. The 9mm is at the opposite end of that continuum, for the reasons others have listed above--there can be a bit of adventure travel involved in making it behave well with castings. IME, the 40 and 10 split the difference between those two extremes, since most of those barrels and throats are 'on spec' at .400"-.401".

[rintinglen]

The 45 Auto and the 32 ACP have been the easiest auto cartridges for me to reload. The 9mm and the 40 have been more troublesome, with the 9mm being difficult to find loads that work for all of my guns. The 40 S&W gave me grief with boolits getting pushed back into the case.
The best boolits for the 9mm that I have found have been the venerable Lyman 356-242 122 grain RN and the Lee 124 grain TC with the standard lube groove, not the tumble lube version. Sized to fit the barrel and seated in the case to an oal cerca 1.05", either of these should work in just about any 9 that comes down the pike.

[roysha]

In my case, truly, ignorance is bliss. I started reloading for the 9mm over 30 years ago, virtually all cast bullets, starting with a Browning HP, next a couple of CZ 75s, a couple of SIGs and an RIA 1911 style. I guess I was too dumb to know I was supposed to have problems loading the 9mm. The only issue I have ever had was a non-existent throat on the SIGs which, because of using the LEE TC bullet, would occasionally not allow full return to battery. Of course I had the same problem with that same style bullet in the P220 also. Throated them a bit. All fixed. Otherwise accuracy and functioning were at least as good as any of the economy factory ammo and a BUNCH cheaper.

[WRideout]

I started loading 9mm with what I had, and really didn't find it hard at all. I was given a quantity of hard cast 9mm 122 gr commercial slugs, so my first attempt used those over a charge of Red Dot. The first time out of the chute, they worked fine in my Hi Point. Since then I acquired the round-nose Lee molds for .356 cal 102 and 125 gr boolits. They seem to work also. I have used the Lee 356-95, (truncated cone, same one I use for the 380 Auto) and it is very pleasant to shoot in the nine, with no problems at all.

Wayne

[FergusonTO35]

9mm is no problemo for reloading as long as you use appropriately sized boolits and aim for mid-range speed. I size everything to .357. Every 9mm pistol I have tried is very accurate with boolits about 100 fps slower than factory jacketed equivalent. My 124 and 134 grain slugs do great at 950 fps, even in factory Glock barrels.

[Baltimoreed]

With a safe full of .45s and no interest in a 9mm I broke down and bought an Astra 600 9mm this last year but I bought it because I wanted an Astra 600. No more than I shoot it I don’t plan on reloading for it. I’d recommend you go with the .45acp, easy to reload cast for and a huge variety of projectiles and powders that will work. Target loads or manstopper loads are no problem. Plenty of data too. I’ve always heard that 9mms were temperamental and needed jacketed ammo to be 100% reliable. The .45 will eat just about anything even seen a video of a guy using black powder in one.

[reddog81]

9mm is probably the most finicky of the common handgun rounds. Not only that, but the pay back for reloading 9mm is noticeably less than something like 45 ACP. After casting for a couple of years I finally decided to take the time to develop some a good 9mm load this year. I settled on either a 140 FN or 147 RN bullet sized to .357 and a minimum charge of N340 powder. It's a soft shooting accurate load that does well in half a dozen different guns.

[Texas by God]

I've been loading .45 ACP for 40 years and highly recommend it. It is just the best and easiest auto pistol cartridge to get great results from. I've loaded .30 Luger, 32ACP, .380ACP, 9mm Luger, .38 Super, .40S&W, and 10mm. The 9mm vexed me to the point of putting it way down the list of rounds to load in the future.

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[dverna]

Well CC, there are thousands of comments on this site wrt cast in 9mm. So, that would indicate some people have issues loading cast bullets in the 9mm. Maybe they have badly made pistols, or weird lots of cases, or poorly cast, sized and lubed bullets, for mystery alloys, or.....they are not well versed in "the art".

It looks like you are asking a lot of questions, and that is good. My suggestion is to start casting with a forgiving platform. I think the best is the .38/.357 and start with low velocity .38's. A new caster will get good serviceable bullets and loads with the .38. It will be less frustrating and you will learn by doing. My cast .38 bullets will put 50 shots into just over 3" at 50 yards....but I did not start there. My point being even mediocre .38 bullets will rarely lead and they shoot well at 7-20 yards were most pistols get used.

Loading the 9mm will require getting a bullet that does not lead the barrel(playing with alloy, size and lube), chambers properly (playing with OAL, bullet nose style, and bullet sizing), and provides accuracy (more playing with alloy, size, lube, OAL, and powder). If you decide to start with the 9mm, use a hard alloy like 6-2-92 if you will be using traditional lubes. Powder coating will help with reduced leading and use of "mystery alloys". Use starting loads that give lower pressures. High pressure loads and high velocities are a challenge with cast bullets.

I load for five pistol calibers currently.....38, .45, .357, .40, and 9mm. I have ranked them in the order of increasing difficulty for me. YMMV

[marek313]

If you have a choice then start with 45acp. Even 40/10mm is easier for me to load then 9mm. Still working out some 9mm issues but havent been shooting lately.

[psweigle]

I use a powder coated lee round nose sized to .356 for my limited number of 9mm. My friends all shoot my cast 9's in their guns as well. Mostly all we use is red dot or bullseye. The only issue was in a sig 938. It would occasionally stove pipe.
As for another cast boolit semi, I have a coonan classic in 357 magnum that has only ever had cast reloads in it. And a couple 25 autos that do very well with cast.
Hope this helps.

[Texas by God]

Baltimoreed-that Astra 600 will amaze you accuracy wise if it's anything like the ones I've owned. Amazing examples of machining prowess.

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[FergusonTO35]

If you want to reload 9mm but don't want to cast, I would recommend copper plated bullets from Berry's, Rainier, and other sources. They cost the same as decent factory cast boolits and and are as easy to load as jacketed. In fact, most jacketed data works just fine for them. If I could have only one 9mm load it would be the Berry's 124 grain plated truncated cone over 3.8 grains Titegroup. Super accurate, feeds in every pistol I've owned, and a real pleasure to shoot.

[DDriller]

Wish I would have read this thread before I started loading 9mm cast [smilie=l:. Did not know it was a problem doing it. 8k+ rounds and not a single issue. To me it is no different than any other cast load.

[bob208]

I shoot cast in my f.n. pocket model in .32 auto. cast in my .30 mauser 9 m/m luger and largo in a luger browning h-p star model s.a. and astra. all with no problems at all.

[Lagamor]

I've had my share of problems with 9mm Lugar. Going to a slower burning powder like Ramshot's Silhoutte help with several, but not all.

[Lagamor]

I've got a couple of 9 mm molds by Mihec and I love them but after a lot of trial and error they aren't the best design for my CZ-85.
Does anyone have a suggestion for a mold that works in every gun you have? I prefer 147 grain stuff, but at this point I don't care about weight.
I have a feeling that round nose profiles are probably best.

[tazman]

My favorite all gun boolit is the NOE 358-136-FN-S1. It used to be listed as 358-135-FN. I size to .357 for best usage in my 9mm handguns.
If I go to a larger diameter, it sometimes has issues in tighter chambers. It drops at .358-.359 with range scrap.
I load it so the front of the drive band just peeks out of the case a few thousandths.

[winelover]

Been reloading 9mm for almost 50 years............was the second caliber I began reloading for. Never any major issues............no internet forums to fall back on. Currently, own half dozen firearms chambered in that caliber. All my guns are stock and all will except any and all of my multiple loadings. I load for the best accuracy with the carbine.............the pistols are used only for SD practice so they take second fiddle.



Winelover

[bob208]

I have one 9m/m mold. rcbs 124 gr. tc. works in everything. even use it for lite loads in .38.

[FergusonTO35]

I've got a couple of 9 mm molds by Mihec and I love them but after a lot of trial and error they aren't the best design for my CZ-85.
Does anyone have a suggestion for a mold that works in every gun you have? I prefer 147 grain stuff, but at this point I don't care about weight.
I have a feeling that round nose profiles are probably best.

Lee 356-120-TC (not the tumble lube version) is my favorite of all. Never found a gun that wouldn't eat 'em right up with good accuracy.

[BigAlofPa.]

The only problem i had was my Walther and my Taurus PT 92 would not chamber them. Lee factory crimp die fixed the issue.