Is my M Die too big?

[Jeff R]

I picked up this 35 Remmy off the used rack at the local GS. I bought the Lyman 35 Short M Die. The Boolits are sized to .359" and the expander plug on the M Die mics at .3565" When I seat a Boolit, before crimping, I can easily slide the Boolit in and out of the case mouth with fingers alone.
My concern is that without a heavy crimp, a Boolit could get pushed into the case, in the tubular magazine. I have a few M Dies for other calibers, and have not experienced this low neck tension with them.
Should I make the M Die expander smaller?
Regards,
Jeff

233043 233044

[ReloaderFred]

Do you get the same condition prior to using the M-Die, but after sizing? Just a thought.

[Jeff R]

Thanks!
I just sized a case with my Lee sizer die. The expander plug in that die mics at .3650" I could not force a boolit, nose first, into the neck of the case.
Jeff
Emergency Edit: The Lee expander is .3560" Not .3650"
Sorry. I'm challenged in so many ways.

[avogunner]

Jeff, do I understand this correctly.... you're saying that with a .3565" expander plug, you can push the boolits (.359 sized) in/out easily but with a larger .3650" sized expander with the Lee set, you couldn't?

[JFE]

You may be pushing the second stage of the M expander button too far into the case. Also the 35 Rem has a fairly short neck. I think your problem might just be die adjustment.

[swheeler]

typo .356 not .365

[farmerjim]

.3650 ?
You type faster than me.

[Jeff R]

Emergency Edit: the Lee expander is .3560"
My bad.
Jeff

[Jeff R]

I will re-size a few cases and then re - M Die, with less penetration. Stay tuned

[farmerjim]

You may be pushing the second stage of the M expander button too far into the case. Also the 35 Rem has a fairly short neck. I think your problem might just be die adjustment.

+1 for this.
The inside of the case neck should be .0002 smaller than the .3565 portion of the M die expander. The wider portion of the plug should just bump the top of the case to give a slight flair. Be sure to put some blue loctite on the threads of the expander. It will back out no matter how much you tighten it. Don't ask me how I know that.

[ReloaderFred]

That's a good plan. With the short neck of that case, you just want to add enough bell to the case mouth to allow the bullet to start, and to seat without shaving lead.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[avogunner]

As a big fan of the 'M' die for loading cast, I use the Lyman dies (with multiple size plugs) and the Lee Universal expander with NOE 'M' plugs with all my cast loads. As mentioned, I also expand the cases .001 - .002 under boolit size to prevent the case from swaging the boolit. Anyway, I don't have enough die bodies to have any permanently set for a specific case and yes, it is a pain to adjust every time but I've figured out a way to quickly adjust an expander plug without boogering up a case. Simply... use a fired (unsized) case to adjust the die. The case mouth is bigger than the plug which will slide in easily but you will feel instantly when it hits the shoulder for the "belling" part. I can set it up in less than a minute with no fuss.
I was pretty proud of myself for thinking of that but knowing I can be a bit "slow" sometimes, it's probably the way most of you guys do it now. If not, give it a try.
Semper Fi.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

+1 JFE pushing expander too far into case. Checked my 'M' die for 35 Rem, first step is .3565, second step .3595 so you probably are running expander too far into case.

[Jeff R]

**************M-Die Update**************
I have followed your recommendations, and it appears my issue has been resolved. I haven't tried avogunner's tip yet, as I was out of fired, unsized cases.
Now, I will load up some of these 200 gr. Boolits over 20.0 gr. od IMR-4198.
Thanks for your great advice, as usual.
Jeff
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[P Flados]

Hey avogunner, I do lots of "tricks" to get what I what with a minimum of fuss.

Never found any tricks to set up my M style expanders.

Your trick definitely sounds like a "must try".

Thanks

[lar45]

I use the NOE expanders and really like them. You can order any size you need.

[Jeff R]

++++++++++++++++++++++ M- Die Final Update +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I had picked up the 35 Rem rifle a few years ago. Soon after that, I picked up some used, mixed head stamp brass at a gun show. It was in zip lock bags, de-primed and super nicely polished. A couple years passed before I got around to loading some ammo for it. When I got the brass out of the drawer, I just assumed that it was sized. It turned out that it was only de-primed.
So, when I re-sized and re-M-died a few cases, the results were perfect. Initially, I had tried to make ammo using fired but unsized brass, with the now, expected results.
So anyway, it was a learning experience. Thanks you all for the help.
Jeff

[ReloaderFred]

I'm glad to see you solved the mystery.

I've learned over the years to size any brass I acquire prior to loading, even new brass. That way, I can tailor it to my gun, with my dies and my load. I bought a batch of 500 brand new primed .45 Colt brass a number of years ago, and when I tried seating the bullets, they dropped right into the cases. I removed the decapping stem from my sizing die and sized the whole batch, and the problem went away.

I also had the experience of buying a batch of brand new .444 Marlin cases, so I set about sizing this factory fresh new brass, and found one without a flash hole punched in it. It was just another reminder to myself to keep doing what I've been doing, sizing all brass, no matter where it comes from.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[dogmower]

I have the same situation with the M die for the 45/70 (H&R Buffalo Classic). Seems to shoot better when I size the case so I can drop the boolit all the way in by hand, then just put a light crimp on it into the first grease groove. My rifle seems to have a little more accuracy when the rounds are loaded this way. Possibly less deformation of the boolit base? I don't know, but if the rifle shoots the load well, and safely, don't see the problem.