Help with ID of old die

[DestructionDan]

Got a lot of old stuff from a neighbor.
This crazy looking die was in with the 45acp stuff.
Looks like a taper crimp die to me, but what do I know.
Any idea what it could be? A loaded 45 does go in it a little, tightly.
https://i.ibb.co/HYT4H1D/20181219-155308.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/vP09GG3/20181219-155331.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/ngDGG7c/20181219-155407.jpg

[Walks]

I've never seen anything quite like it.
However back in the 1960's my Dad had friends who did make their own dies. Many BenchRest Shooters made their own dies.

And I think the old Herter's Catalog sold die blanks for do it yourselfers.
Maybe a "home-made" taper crimp die ?
Sorry I can't be more help.

[DestructionDan]

The bulk of the stuff in the lot was 60s-70s era. 71 & 64 dated RCBS dies, JAX dies, box of Sears 30-06 with some Sears brass inside. (Now that's cool)

[jimkim]

I have a set of JAX dies. Wish I knew more about them. Sorry I couldn't help ID that one. By posting this, I will remember seeing it, AND be able to find it, if I run across any info. Happy New Year!

Sent from my VS880 using Tapatalk

[country gent]

From the looks its a home made die. Almost all manufacturers ID their products, with name and what its for. In the 50s and 60s it was common to make your own dies and equipment. I would set it to touch a shell holder and lube a fired 45 acp case run it in and see what you get. I think it was in the 70s when taper crimping started getting popular. It may be a sizing die for tight chambered bullseye gun. Run the case in and measure it up.

[DestructionDan]

JimKim, all I could find searching was this. I'll keep digging and see what else I can turn up.
Jax dies were made by Jack Ashurst, probably when Ashurst was operating "Jax Die Company" in Kootenai, Idaho, in the 1960s.

Ashurst was a partner with Lyman McCrea, and took over McCrea's shop (in California?) during WWII. Both Ashurst and McCrea were noted developers of wildcat cartridges. Simmon's book Wildcat Cartridges lists nine different Ashurst cartridges; seven are listed for McCrea.

In his column in Guns & Ammo in the early 1960s, Elmer Keith noted that Ashurst had gone into production of reloading dies. He mentioned in passing that Ashurst had made the barrel for one of the rifles that Keith took on an Arican safari.

country gent, i'll dig some 45 brass out and test. I don't shoot 45 but it's nice to have dies if ever I were to start.

[Pressman]

That That die is a Saeco stubby die. Made a especially for the Saeco press, but usable in any press.
The design is supposed to be a less costly product compared to the other brands.
Ken

[wv109323]

Is the seating stem contoured for a RN bullet? If so you could use it for a seating die. The hole allows excess lube to be pushed up and not building up to affect oal. This common on star dies.
You would need to crimp in a seperate operation.

[DestructionDan]

Thanks Ken, you wouldn't happen to have any ads or other info would you? I did a google and can't find anything like it using Saeco Saeco dies or Saeco reloading.
I'm drawn to the old stuff over the new stuff. History that works is great. The better part of 1/3 my stuff is old school.

WV109323 I'm pretty sure this is just a crimp die. The hole is not threaded.

[Pressman]

Dan, I have several complete sets of the dies and the instructions.
Just one problem, I am not near them and won't be till May.
I may have a picture on file with me, have to dig around to find it.

Ken

[nvreloader]

What is the small and large hole size inside?

Tia,
Don

[jimkim]

Thanks DD! The set I have look like they were blued by Browning, last week.

Sent from my VS880 using Tapatalk

[DestructionDan]

No rush Ken, thanks for commenting. I look forward to seeing pictures of the set and instructions.
Not sure why but old and odd things interest me. Hints my wife :kidding:

nvreloader the inside is .459 as far as I can get up in it. And .470ish at the opening base. Top hole is 7/64 drill bit is loose missing 1/8" bit so not sure.

[DestructionDan]

jimkim I might have found the bad part of the JAX dies. I'm pretty sure they take the small straight RCBS pin. And they don't make them anymore. Found that out yesterday when trying to order pins for a 1971 45 set. They did away with the #2 expand decap and send out the pin and rod for the #1 sizing die now.

[Dusty Bannister]

If anyone has a set of dies for the 45 ACP shot load, this might be similar to the roll crimp die that rounds over the end of the case to crimp in an over shot wad. Probably home made lock ring from the junk box, drilled for a set screw. Would someone look at the RCBS shot shell set and see if that looks about right. I can not tell from the photo if the end of the inside hole is formed at an angle or square.

Some folks are able to cut a 308/30-06 case to length, then size down part of the body so the case will chamber and head space on the remaining shoulder, then trim the over all length so you have a hard case to feed from the magazine. Maybe I can search around and see if I can find an image of the shot cartridge. I think the sizer part of a die would be about .445" or so and that would give plenty of clearance for the roll crimp part of the die set.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=rcbs+45+acp+shotshell+reloading+dies&view=detail&mid=84873B3F4C4A95BF912A84873B3F4C4A95BF912A&FORM=VIRE
Dusty

[DestructionDan]

I don't have but 1 loaded 45 ACP in the house, on my bullet shelf.
I do have some GAP brass. So I did a test. Sized the case.
Outside .469 mouth, ran the brass all the way into this die and it's .458 and tapers up to .472 outside now.
Feels like a 357 Sig bottleneck almost. It's for sure a taper crimp die.

[jimkim]

jimkim I might have found the bad part of the JAX dies. I'm pretty sure they take the small straight RCBS pin. And they don't make them anymore. Found that out yesterday when trying to order pins for a 1971 45 set. They did away with the #2 expand decap and send out the pin and rod for the #1 sizing die now.I think the Lyman pin might fit. One of my Pacific pins, and collar fit. The other doesn't. My Herters assembly, and collar fit it. My 32 acp RCBS seating plug fits the die.

Sent from my VS880 using Tapatalk

[mdi]

An aside; Country Gent, an honest question and not being a smart adz; what did they (manufacturers and reloaders) use for 45 ACP crimps before taper crimping?

[Pressman]

232925

I apologize for not having a picture of the complete die set. It has been awhile since I have tinkered with the Saeco.

The picture is the Saeco press with the decapping/expanding die installed. The shellholder with its abnormally wide flange is necessary to limit ram travel via the 1/4" threaded rod that stops on the flange. I think that is the seating die next to the die box.
These presses where made for 2/3 years in the 1960's. They are cast iron and a decent little press, limited today by the lack of shellholders available.

Ken

[Char-Gar]

IIRC the SAECO Stubby dies were marketed as multi-caliber.

[country gent]

From early reloading manuals I have read a light roll crimp and tension were what was recomended

[mdi]

Thanks. My first 45 ACP reloads were done like that; very light roll crimp (just enough to remove flare)...

[Mr_Sheesh]

Dusty, in the 45ACP Shot shells, the seater/crimper die has a GC seater that holds the over-shot GC down so the case mouth can be roll crimped over it. If the over-shot wad / card / GC isn't held down you'd end up with it mashed in the middle of the crimp, if not sitting there on top of the crimp. That wouldn't be too good.