cartridge qualities

[crankycalico]

Im needing a project rifle, and part of the purpose is hunting, cast for me, perhaps jacketed for me, but definitely jacketed for the small size ladies that will be using it.

6.5x55
7x57
30-40
30-06, more for me and BIG bullets


they share a .243 win 770 with hornady GMX but love a marlin 336 in 30-30 but have serious issues working the lever.

What im in the market to know is, which is the better round in terms of recoil. Assuming all guns are the same weight as a 770 or Ruger american

[Hick]

factory rounds? Velocity? Grains? These all affect recoil. In 30-06, depending on the bullet and the velocity you can get anywhere from very, very light recoil all the way to very, very stiff. In fact, you can calculate recoil based on weight and velocity of the bullet-- then tailor the load to the recoil level you want. It al so depends on the rifle weight. for similar velocity loads, my 30-30 has much worse recoil than my M1 Garand in 30-06 because the Garand is heavier than the 30-30, but they both use the same weight bullet.

[crankycalico]

I don't notice "recoil" with a 30-30 until I use 170 grain jsp and perhaps hold the butt plate off of my shoulder when I shoot.

I know 30-06 is more then needed in terms of recoil for what is needed however the bullet choices are wonderful.

[GregLaROCHE]

Hands down 6.5x55 se. Light recoil, flat shooting and big enough for a lot of game. Deer included. You can load a lot of different sized boolits in it. Only drawback is it’s not the easiest to perfect a cast boolit load for. It can be done. Many on this forum have succeeded and you can probably get help if you want.

[GregLaROCHE]

Hands down 6.5x55 se. Light recoil, flat shooting and big enough for a lot of game. Deer included. You can load a lot of different sized boolits in it. Only drawback is it’s not the easiest to perfect a cast boolit load for. It can be done. Many on this forum have succeeded and you can probably get help if you want.

Just to add, I said big enough to hunt deer. There was once a famous Africain hunter who used to bring down elephants with this round. Granted bullet placement is important. Do some research on this round before you pass it by.

[500Linebaughbuck]

30-40 krag and 165gr ranch dog does it for me. you can shot a whole plethora of boolits and powder too. i use h4198, rel7 and 2400 and i only go to about 1800+/-fps. it doesn't kick but the deer hate it!!!!

[sharps4590]

Recoil is first of all subjective. Secondly, there is so many variables and, especially for those who handload, it's almost a moot point. You can make it what you want. My Ruger #1 in 450/400 is a pussycat with my cast loads, kids shoot it. Full house jacketed loads.....it's a tiger to me.

Of those you listed my first choice would be the Swede and secondly the Krag. I'm a big fan of the 7 X 57 but I've worked with it quite a bit in rim formed. The Swede and Krag, not so much.

[robg]

30 cal are great with cast boolits .308/3006 are never wrong can be loaded mild to wild to suit your recoil levels.

[Tripplebeards]

260 rem, one of the new 6.5's, 257 Roberts, 35 Remington...all lower recoil. A few more or the "common" easier to find casings...25-06 or 257 Weatherby have a soft, mild recoil and shoot flat with lighter bullets. Ruger makes the 7.65x39 American ranch. Cheap, free brass everywhere... Or just find a couple of original Remington 600's. My buddy. Just bout that e for $300 out of his LGS for $300 being nobody wants a short, light, rifle, in the desert for some reason. I bought one day n 243 that looks like new a few years back for $470 off Gunbroker. Picked it up a few minutes after it was listed and got lucky. Maybe a box of shells though it at the most. I acraglassed it and threw in a discontinued rifle basics trigger set at 1 1/4 lbs. It shot a half inch group at a hundred yards my first try. I found an old ramline stock for a 600 and shot a .3" group at a 100 yards last week and then the action came loose and all heck broke loose. Might trade that stock to someone with a factory wood one of someone's interested.

[elk hunter]

I own and have hunted with all your listed calibers. My deer rifle for years was a 6.5x55. My wife's favorite all around rifle is her 7x57, with it she's taken many deer and several elk and some African plains game with absolutely no problems, recoil with the heaviest loads is not a problem. For cast bullets for deer size game I like the 30-40 as it is so easy to work with to get accurate loads.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Your Marlin 30-30 sounds like a good project rifle you for the young ones. Shorten the stock,Kick-eez or Limbsaver recoil pad, smooth and tune the action and trigger. The 30-30 is one of the best cast boolit cartridges and the Marlin 336 has along history of high-level accuracy, 1 to 2 MOA with cast. There is a great deal of information on tuning and smoothing Marlins, extraordinary amounts of load data with cast bullets.

[country gent]

Well if they like lever actions. A savage 99 in 300 savage or a win 88 in 243 or 308 can be very slick accurate rifles. I find them smoother and easier than the 94s to operate also. Another would be the browning BLR in 243 or 308. Not the calibers you have posted but they are good.

A bolt action in 30-30 or 30-40 krag might be a good performer also but harder to find. A Number 1 or High wall in any of the mentioned calibers also would be a good rifle.

[crankycalico]

Your Marlin 30-30 sounds like a good project rifle you for the young ones. Shorten the stock,Kick-eez or Limbsaver recoil pad, smooth and tune the action and trigger. The 30-30 is one of the best cast boolit cartridges and the Marlin 336 has along history of high-level accuracy, 1 to 2 MOA with cast. There is a great deal of information on tuning and smoothing Marlins, extraordinary amounts of load data with cast bullets.

there hands are on the very small size. they have a rather hard time holding the lever closed enough to activate the safety system marlin uses, and im not messing with that at all. To work the action they have to lay it on their lap and work it.

They can NORMALLY get a round off per minute. Not enough for hunting no matter how well you hit an animal. They do fine with a bolt action. And .308 is a tad to much for them recoil wise. And I simply do not trust them without a JSP for deer unless im there to watch the deer after impact.

[popper]

Sounds like the marlin needs a tad of work, the lever safety doesn't take much pressure. Don't jam the lands with a bullet, that does take pressure to hold in. Actually the 243 should work fine. Youth hunt I went on, 15 or so kids were all shooting 243 and got several deer @ 100 or so.

[quilbilly]

Why jacketed for the ladies?? Do they particularly like long range shooting? I would be suggesting one of the 308's I see on sale at very good prices all the time then just using cast in it for both you and them. Maybe I just misunderstand.

[country gent]

The 308 is an easy cartridge to load down to 30-30,300 savage velocities or slightly lower. Brass is readily available as is components. Its available in a lot of rifles of vartius makes models.

[Tripplebeards]

Here's my Remington 600 chambered in 243. I believe they were manufactured from 64' to 68'. It has a 16.5" barrel and weighs 5 lbs max. The "dog leg" bolt is flat and the trigger guard and vented rib is plastic...zytel I believe, to shave weight. It's light and has a short length of pull for small framed shooters. My smith owns a half dozen of them. He bought them for his kids and nephews. It reminds me of holding a small BB gun. They are so light that it doesn't feel like it's a real gun. The common calibers were 6mm, 308, 222, and I think they made quite a few in 243. The rare ones were 223 and 35 rem. They made some laminate stock magnums is 6.5 and 350 rem mag as well. Haven't seen too many smaller, lighter rifles out there compaired to these. I own lever actions but IMO they are not a gun to start someone out on. I let one kid and my dad both try my 1970 100 th anniversary 336 35 rem with no safety bar or button. Both ended up accidently firing it while letting the hammer down. I even had them both practice letting the hammer down with the rifle unloaded before hand. My dad even let one fly being he didn't get the hammer all the way back when trying to cock it with his thumb. Needless to say neither want to ever shoot my or any lever action again. I even have an aftermarket thumb catch I installed on the hammer to add more leverage that didn't help them. I'm not a fan or ever will be of levers but they have their place...with the Cowboys...the 1800's AR15. Probably would sell my 100th anniversary 336 35 Rem if the price was right. It looks like brand new. There's been about a box and half of shells through it since it rolled off the production line.


http://i.imgur.com/Elkz4lg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xlXOcHZ.jpg

[crankycalico]

Your Marlin 30-30 sounds like a good project rifle you for the young ones. Shorten the stock,Kick-eez or Limbsaver recoil pad, smooth and tune the action and trigger. The 30-30 is one of the best cast boolit cartridges and the Marlin 336 has along history of high-level accuracy, 1 to 2 MOA with cast. There is a great deal of information on tuning and smoothing Marlins, extraordinary amounts of load data with cast bullets.

I don't think people listen well these days.

Theres nothing wrong with the Marlin. its an OLD marlin, made before things went bad with their modernization programs.
Its an issue of "hands to SMALL" to work the gun. And two shooters who have no issue with taking marginal shots because they aren't the ones dragging the animal, or even really tracking it.

ANYWAY.

Ive been looking at the 7x57 to be honest. Easiest on the cases right now as Remington ammunition in my area is knee deep in October and November.

[Wolfer]

30-30, 30-40 and 30-06 are all very mild recoiling with the 311041 and 2400 powder.
I push all three to 1800 fps and have taken a good many deer with these loads. I know I could go faster with a slower powder but haven’t seen the need.
I believe I use 17 gr, 18 gr, and 20 gr respectively. Above that accuracy goes south in a big way.

[Texas by God]

Leave the marginal shooters at home till they aren't. Since you don't reload the 770/.243 will work precisely.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[DonMountain]

I started out deer hunting many years ago with a pair of Swedish Mausers in 6.5x55 shooting 129 grain Hornady jacketed bullets over a load of IMR-4350. It is a relatively flat shooting cartridge with minimal recoil, especially in the 29" barrel version I have. The carbine version kicks a little harder, but not really noticeably. And I always got my deer with that caliber. Later, when I tried cast projectiles in it, because of the fast barrel twist, I could only shoot real mellow loads not useful for deer hunting. But I killed a bunch of squirrels with it with cast. Accuracy was outstanding for the 129 grain Hornady's and I killed a deer with the 29" barreled version at about 400 yards using the open sights on the gun. I don't use the rifle much anymore since I mostly shoot cast projectiles and there are far more appropriate calibers for them (45-70).

[jcren]

Remember that bullets intended purpose is also velocity dependent. Example, hornady 125 grain 30 cal varmit bullets are plumb explosive @ 3500 plus. Down loading my 3006 to 2400 fps and the recoil in my old rem 700 is less than any 30-30 I have shot, but the bullet performed perfectly with large but not excessive exit wounds on the 2 deer my wife shot with that load. Granted, small does and broadside shots, but effective none the less

[725]

Recoil issues are dependent on weight & speed of your projectile. There are so many suitable choices it gets down to which is better Ford or Chevy. They both haul you around pretty good. I'm a fan of the 7 x 57, 7mm-08, .30-40 Krag, .30-30. 7.5 x 55 Swiss and many more. As for an easy lever to operate, you just can't get any better than the Henry. It's a butter smooth lever gun, well designed, and backed by a responsive American company. A .30-30 from Henry would be a great choice. They have a new line that I'm not familiar in their lever actions that box feed. Such a gun would allow many caliber choices with spitzer type bullets. Check out a Henry.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

A Marlin 336 lever should not need to be held shut. It latches shut with the 'trigger safety' depressed when the action is closed/locked, if you must hold it shut it is in need of repair. The Winchester 94 does have the issue of holding the lever closed to fire.

[GregLaROCHE]

Sounds like the younger ones are best sticking with the .243 for a few more years. It’s an adequate caliber for deer.

[crankycalico]

Sounds like the younger ones are best sticking with the .243 for a few more years. It’s an adequate caliber for deer.

using any off the shelf jsp, I expect at least a 300 yard tracking job with any size deer hit in the lungs with a .243.

Longest tracking job with a 30-30 on a deer hit in the lungs was maybe 30 feet.

[Smoke4320]

If wanting cast bullets 7x57 or 30-40
IF Jacketed Only or a real journey down the casting hole the 6.5 x 55
The 6.5 x 55 has been killing moose in Scandinavia for over 100 years so deer will not be an issue with a well placed shot
YMMV

[Wayne Smith]

Foget the 30-40 Krag if indeed no one is making the brass any more. You want something you will be able to use for years. I agree that the 7x57 would be an excellent choice if you can find one. 6.5's are available and not overly expensive - we Americans never took to that caliber.

[500Linebaughbuck]

Foget the 30-40 Krag if indeed no one is making the brass any more. You want something you will be able to use for years. I agree that the 7x57 would be an excellent choice if you can find one. 6.5's are available and not overly expensive - we Americans never took to that caliber.

grafs and hornady does.
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/764?

and there's always 303 british brass, it will be short if you fire form it, but you will have some.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?89392-30-40-Krag-from-303-Brit

[skeettx]

Springfield O3, 7x57, synthetic stock, great scope, burris rings and bases.
Barrel of your choice.
Short length of pull?

Mike

p.s. or 308 and custom reloads, mild and good

[crankycalico]

The 7x57 does seem the best choice over all.

Case head
use of lead being easier
Least confusion for gunsmitsh, rimmed versus unrimmed cartridge

Its just a matter of a parent rifle. I know a model 98 receiver and action is findable and more then good for it. But im unusual in liking that military trigger.

The only option im coming up with is a 30-06.

[oldblinddog]

using any off the shelf jsp, I expect at least a 300 yard tracking job with any size deer hit in the lungs with a .243.

Longest tracking job with a 30-30 on a deer hit in the lungs was maybe 30 feet.

Every deer I ever shot with a .243 went straight down! Every one! All shot with Remington 100 gr corelokt through the lungs.

[Texas by God]

Every deer I ever shot with a .243 went straight down! Every one! All shot with Remington 100 gr corelokt through the lungs.
Exact same here except I've used 80 gr bullets. My current .243 loves 95 gr NBT. My daughter likes the Federal Fusion bullet. I grew up killing deer DRT with a 22-250 so the .243 is just more gravy weight.

[oldblinddog]

My daughter’s rifle is a Remington 700 with a short stock and 20” barrel in .243. (She’s 5’0”) Only one in the family now, but it still works.

[Peregrine]

Recoil isn't a consideration for me, but if it were 6.5x55 would be the easy choice, I wouldn't think twice.

Loading up jacked rounds for recoil shy shooters you'll be able to get flat shooting with great terminal performance and downright friendly recoil.

Hunting bullet selection for 6.5's is currently excellent, and the high SD of the caliber gives you all of the penetration you could ever need while the bullet selection ensures you can get enough expansion for your liking.

But really 7x57 is hardly leaving much on the table in comparison. And frankly neither is the .243, with careful bullet selection and loading.
How much do you want to buy a new rifle? I don't like the 770 very much.

And if you are going to want to cast for it, do yourself a favour and don't do it with any of the .243/6.5/7mm. Low recoil and flat shooting are mutually exclusive from easy to cast for generally.

[GregLaROCHE]

The .30-06 has been my lifetime favorite cartridge. I still have three and have had a number of others. However, if I were starting today, I would strongly consider the .308 instead. Ballistics are almost the same and there is a lot of ammo and brass available. Before you step up that much, have you considered the .270 round?

The 6.5 is difficult to cast for, at least if your going for sub MOA.

The .243 as others have said, has taken a lot of deer. You may need to stay with jacketed bullets, but you already have the rifle. You could let the young ones keep using it for the time being, and get something bigger for yourself and one that is easy to cast for. My favorite is .45-70.

You seem to to like the 30-30. That’s the historical American deer round. I once had one in bolt action, but I think they are rare today.

7x57 I don’t have any experience with. There are other less popular rounds too that could serve you. When do y plan to make this purchase? Will you be hunting before next spring? If not you have time to research more.

[Good Cheer]

If it was me I'd get a cast rifle that could be loaded up or down with jacketed.

Do 158 grain jacketed typically work well in 358 Winchester's?
:p

[Eamonn]

If wanting cast bullets 7x57 or 30-40
IF Jacketed Only or a real journey down the casting hole the 6.5 x 55
The 6.5 x 55 has been killing moose in Scandinavia for over 100 years so deer will not be an issue with a well placed shot
YMMV

Right. Granted they are often not as big as some of your moose but whitetails are smaller still.
I've never shot a 30-30 but I hear they are very similar in terms of recoil and the 6.5 gives a bit more leeway whith distance.
People seem to like the Woodleigh and Hornady 160 gr soft point and of course the Norma and Lapua offerings. It does like longer barrels though but so does the .243.
Tikka T3 or T3X are very popular rifles and generally considered at the top of their price class and I think they are cheaper on your side of the pond. The bolt is very slick and easy to work.

[richhodg66]

Any of the ones you mention are fine with jacketed. I've only worked with one Swede and it was a PITA, traded it off as partial credite for a nicely sporterized Krag and I love it.

I killed my first deer with a 7x57 and cast this year, had killed a lot using cast in .30 and bigger, turns out 7mm works just fine too, just takes a little more thought.

Personally, if I wasn't settled on exactly what I wanted to do, no question the .30-06 is the most versatile. Load it down to rim fire recoil levels or up to make it a legit grizzle round, it'll do it all.

[Blammer]

6.5x55 for hard hitting and very soft recoil for the ladies

[Tripplebeards]

Another small, light rifle I own is my ruger 77/44. Your just not going to get the range as a bottleneck cartridge. An 1800 plus fps 265 gr bullet will kick less than a 30-30 and put a whitetail down as quick or quicker under 200 yards.

[Tripplebeards]

using any off the shelf jsp, I expect at least a 300 yard tracking job with any size deer hit in the lungs with a .243.

Longest tracking job with a 30-30 on a deer hit in the lungs was maybe 30 feet.

It sounds like you need to work your kids on their shooting skills. There isn't a deer on the planet that's going 300 yards with a lung shot. With a far back liver or gut shot too far back yes,and or, maybe...there isn't a caliber out there that's going to compensate for a poor shot. I worked with my buddies 12 year old kid all last summer who's small for his age with his 243, a 44 mag rifle, and few pistols, and a 35 rem lever action. I bet he shot a good 3/400 rounds I casted and loaded for him. The kid went from being afraid of shooting guns and flinching to being a better marksman than most my buddies. Then after all that shooting he still didn't have a clue where the vitals were on an animal. His First shot ended up with his first deer, 243 loaded with a 100 gr hornady soft point. The big doe dropped where it stood with a lung shot. He also shot a deer with a crossbow this year. Lung shot...40 yards and it dropped. I use to teach youth archery and firearm shooting at green wings days so I have a lot of patience IMO when it comes to this than most. I'd get them some 22 rifles in what ever action they are use to shooting and work their way up in calibers to build their confidence first. After the both fire a couple of 500 round bricks they'll get the hang of normal firearms operation which is probably more rounds than the average yahoo in the deer woods has ever shot. Besides building their confidence they will stop flinching by working up in calibers.

Just trying to help, you can take my advise or leave it for what it's worth.

I haven't tried 95 gr nosler ballistic tips but from the research I did they drop deer in their tracks with lung shots. I can tell you 90 gr ballistic tips drops everything I've shot where they stood from coyotes on down.

[Chad5005]

Here's my Remington 600 chambered in 243. I believe they were manufactured from 64' to 68'. It has a 16.5" barrel and weighs 5 lbs max. The "dog leg" bolt is flat and the trigger guard and vented rib is plastic...zytel I believe, to shave weight. It's light and has a short length of pull for small framed shooters. My smith owns a half dozen of them. He bought them for his kids and nephews. It reminds me of holding a small BB gun. They are so light that it doesn't feel like it's a real gun. The common calibers were 6mm, 308, 222, and I think they made quite a few in 243. The rare ones were 223 and 35 rem. They made some laminate stock magnums is 6.5 and 350 rem mag as well. Haven't seen too many smaller, lighter rifles out there compaired to these. I own lever actions but IMO they are not a gun to start someone out on. I let one kid and my dad both try my 1970 100 th anniversary 336 35 rem with no safety bar or button. Both ended up accidently firing it while letting the hammer down. I even had them both practice letting the hammer down with the rifle unloaded before hand. My dad even let one fly being he didn't get the hammer all the way back when trying to cock it with his thumb. Needless to say neither want to ever shoot my or any lever action again. I even have an aftermarket thumb catch I installed on the hammer to add more leverage that didn't help them. I'm not a fan or ever will be of levers but they have their place...with the Cowboys...the 1800's AR15. Probably would sell my 100th anniversary 336 35 Rem if the price was right. It looks like brand new. There's been about a box and half of shells through it since it rolled off the production line.


http://i.imgur.com/Elkz4lg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xlXOcHZ.jpg
ive got that same exact rifle in 6mm

[crankycalico]

ive seen deer run 400 yards with the lungs missing. I mean, when gutted you couldn't FIND the lungs inside the chest cavity.

You don't believe ive had deer shot in the lungs with a 243 soft point that ran 300 yards. More power to you if you shot say for example a 90 pound deer and it dropped in 10 yards while my 160 pound deer ran 300.

[am44mag]

Im needing a project rifle, and part of the purpose is hunting, cast for me, perhaps jacketed for me, but definitely jacketed for the small size ladies that will be using it.

6.5x55
7x57
30-40
30-06, more for me and BIG bullets


they share a .243 win 770 with hornady GMX but love a marlin 336 in 30-30 but have serious issues working the lever.

What im in the market to know is, which is the better round in terms of recoil. Assuming all guns are the same weight as a 770 or Ruger american

30-06 is probably going to be the most versatile. 7x57 would probably be more pleasant for the ladies to shoot though.

[richhodg66]

Personally, every deer I ever shot through the lungs was down in a few steps. Even with arrows. The way I hunt, they are almost always unaware I'm around and calm at the shot, maybe that makes a difference?

A little buck I shot with the cross bow a few years ago went into a fast death run at the shot and made maybe 80 yards before I watched him fall down. and was the farthest I've had one run with a good hit that I can remember. Arrow went straight through from top to bottom (tree stand, close shot) and buried itself in the ground. Seems like it only took out one lung and for some reason, scared him real bad at the impact. A much bigger buck two years later simply started walking a little faster after being double lunged with the same bow and arrow combo and keeled over in about 20 yards.

If I ever had a deer make it 300 yards after a good shot, I'd have to do some serious examination of what went wrong, because clearly there is something wrong if that's happening even with a relatively light rifle, a .243 should do much better than that.

[crankycalico]

Personally, every deer I ever shot through the lungs was down in a few steps. Even with arrows. The way I hunt, they are almost always unaware I'm around and calm at the shot, maybe that makes a difference?

A little buck I shot with the cross bow a few years ago went into a fast death run at the shot and made maybe 80 yards before I watched him fall down. and was the farthest I've had one run with a good hit that I can remember. Arrow went straight through from top to bottom (tree stand, close shot) and buried itself in the ground. Seems like it only took out one lung and for some reason, scared him real bad at the impact. A much bigger buck two years later simply started walking a little faster after being double lunged with the same bow and arrow combo and keeled over in about 20 yards.

If I ever had a deer make it 300 yards after a good shot, I'd have to do some serious examination of what went wrong, because clearly there is something wrong if that's happening even with a relatively light rifle, a .243 should do much better than that.

when a deer has no lungs, they became jelly with the .243. and simply disappeared with the .308 they still ran those distances with ease.

[geezer56]

I just went through this with my grandkids. Ruger American or Savage Axis compact. Both have shorter stocks and 20 inch barrels. 308 or 7mm08 either one will work. The 308 has better bullet selection and more mould options. Trailboss powder is your friend for this project. Get them shooting and used to the gun, then power up for hunting loads.

[Harter66]

From the list 7×57 or 06' . The 7×57 will get you 90% of the numbers of the 06' and if you can get a slow twist barrel match the 06' with cast .

The down side of the 7×57 is that 90% of the barrels and rifles are 8.5 or 9.5 twists where a 10.5 or 11 inch would be completely sufficient .
Also moulds just aren't as broadly available as in 30 cal . You have 130 ,150 , and if you can find them with enough nose 168 .

Bell killed 100 and some elephants with the 7×57 using 175 gr RN FMJ well placed in the brain pan and high neck . Loaded in deference to the old 93/95 Mausers it is very docile and should result in comfortable shooting mild recoil and meat in the freezer .

The 06' has tomes of information and bullets from 50-250 gr loadable from real data in 5-10 gr steps up to 4000 fps and down to "a very angry 22 mag" . There is a rifle from every maker on the planet chambered for it and if the bait shop doesn't have a box of shells for it ......... I've only seen that once about 6 years into the last administration and that Walmart had 41 boxes of 45 Colts and 32 boxes of 45-70 in the whole ammo inventory . I suspect the $40/box price had something to do with that .

[Tripplebeards]

My average bow/ crossbow shot 180 to 220 lb big WI whitetail buck with a double lung shot will run 40 yards on average and fall over in clear sight 99.9% with a lot less Kenetic energy. The only way they make it 300 yards is with a non vital shot and then the caliber gets a bad rap. Maybe too hard of bullet? A FMJ poking a bullet sized hole in and out or using a hard cast that's not expanding and not hitting any bone to shatter could be the cause. A good quality fragile bullet is the key with small calibers for a quick kill. A lot of bullet fragments going in different directions will cause trauma. A hard bullet/boolit poking a small hole in and out would be like shooting a deer with a field point on an an arrow. They'd run a country mile or two before expiring. It want to put a deer down where they stand you either have to brake shoulders, paralyze them with a back bone, head, or nervous system shot. I still tell you to grab some 95 gr loaded Nosler ballistic tip ammo before giving up on the "so called" marginal caliber. The NBT will literally blow up and apart after entering an animal causing immediate trauma.

Sounds like you need to get them some H&R single shots chambered in 20 gauge or light recoil load 12 gauge slug ammo. At least you'll have some big bleeder holes in and out for tracking. Me, id rather have an extremely fast load for energy transfer. I think you just need to try a different bullet before ruling out your 243.

[Tripplebeards]

I'm going to have to eat some of my words today. I shot a couple of deer yesterday right before the end Legal shooting light. Two ran like they weren't hit and the third dropped on the spot. We have a holiday hunt here for doe only going on through tomorrow and I have several tags to burn up and eager relatives awaiting meat. I looked last night for blood and couldn't find any so I went back in this morning at day brake. Found one deer right on the path a 100 yards from where it hit it. Used a devastator out of a rifle at 1750 fps. Took out both lungs. I found the second one twenty yards down the hill from it and closer to my stand. I hit it further back, about the fifth rib in so I would say it probably caught the tail end of the lungs, more likely a liver shot but couldn't inspect it since the rotten coyotes completely tore the deer up. The first one they just started tearing into. I filleted off where the rotten things bit into the quarters.

First time shooting deer with cast...and last with devastors. 2 out of the three ran like they weren't hit and made it a 100 and 120 yards with a sparse blood trail. I understand why with a far back shot but not the lung shot through the shoulder. I had bullet size exits on two and the third one that the coyotes tore up bad was a little bigger but the hole had meat pulled through it so I believe the yotes helped expand the exit hole. Gotta a feeling my alloy mix was too hard. 80/20 ACCOWW with pure mixed in and 12% pewter. If I remember right is was around 15.4BH area the last I tested it. Made a good mushroom in water testing.

[crankycalico]

I'm going to have to eat some of my words today. I shot a couple of deer yesterday right before the end Legal shooting light. Two ran like they weren't hit and the third dropped on the spot. We have a holiday hunt here for doe only going on through tomorrow and I have several tags to burn up and eager relatives awaiting meat. I looked last night for blood and couldn't find any so I went back in this morning at day brake. Found one deer right on the path a 100 yards from where it hit it. Used a devastator out of a rifle at 1750 fps. Took out both lungs. I found the second one twenty yards down the hill from it and closer to my stand. I hit it further back, about the fifth rib in so I would say it probably caught the tail end of the lungs, more likely a liver shot but couldn't inspect it since the rotten coyotes completely tore the deer up. The first one they just started tearing into. I filleted off where the rotten things bit into the quarters.

First time shooting deer with cast...and last with devastors. 2 out of the three ran like they weren't hit and made it a 100 and 120 yards with a sparse blood trail. I understand why with a far back shot but not the lung shot through the shoulder. I had bullet size exits on two and the third one that the coyotes tore up bad was a little bigger but the hole had meat pulled through it so I believe the yotes helped expand the exit hole. Gotta a feeling my alloy mix was too hard. 80/20 ACCOWW with pure mixed in and 12% pewter. If I remember right is was around 15.4BH area the last I tested it. Made a good mushroom in water testing.

It always sucks to lose a critter. And it sucks when a bullet doesn't perform the way it is supposed to on paper. But that's what we face every day.
When I first started looking at barnes solid copper for hunting with, I saw massive massive amounts of photos of good bullet function online. Seriously, I saw so many photos of hogs shot with them in .223 that had golf ball size exit holes on SHOULDER HITS at 100 yards.
But in real life that same load leaves a caliber size entrance and exit hole on white tail at 50 yards. Scrambles the lungs but no blood trail, cant even find the exit hole until you squeeze blood through the hole by crushing the rib cage in before gutting.

[oldblinddog]

A 100+/- yard run with any deer bullet is to be expected especially if heart shot. I have seen this many times. They don’t always drop dead in their tracks as each one is different. If you take off the arteries on top of the heart, you are more likely to get DRT. This placement will also get lungs.

[crankycalico]

A 100+/- yard run with any deer bullet is to be expected especially if heart shot. I have seen this many times. They don’t always drop dead in their tracks as each one is different. If you take off the arteries on top of the heart, you are more likely to get DRT. This placement will also get lungs.


However, when the animal HAS NO LUNGS ANYMORE, that hasn't been turned into a pudding like spaghetti sauce, how can they still run 300+ yards?

I was talking to a local deer processer this weekend, and where I live most people are using some really over powered bullets on deer in some rather bad shots. say, 300 win mag with 220 grain soft point through the back hips to drop it.

[reddhawkk]

If I remember correctly from reading in my youth, Jack O'Conner's wife used a 7x57 quite effectively. I shoot an old military Mauser in 7x57 and it is accurate and low on recoil.