Hungarian M95

[Battis]

I have a Spanish Destroyer on hold at a store in Maine but today I drove past that store and went to Cabela's in Scarborough, ME. They had a pretty good collection of milsurp rifles and I left with a Hungarian m95 in 8x56 for $249.00. It's all matching, great bore, a repair in the stock but it looks good. It has the importer stamp - they had another one with no import marks for $359. It looks like it'll be a good shooter, and $175 less than the Destroyer.
Anything special to watch out for with the m95?

[hpbear101]

I have a 8x56 and a 8x50 both are good shooters. 8X56 has kind of a funky taper to it and I couldn't get my standard 2400 cast bullet loads to work without a bunch of blow back and sooty cases, I finally went to Herco and no problem. I use the Lee mold for this rifle and it works fine. The barrels do vary quite a bit, they should slug around .330. The last thing is the extractors are a common issue that comes up and replacements are hard to find, always use the enbloc clip even if single load so it feeds under the extractor.

Good luck with your new rifle!

[Battis]

Any 8x56 Steyr clip will work, right?
Thanks for the info.

[junkbug]

Yes about the clips. 8x50 and 8x56 use the same clip. Groove diameter is very variable, throats are really large.

[Texas by God]

The 8x56 m95 Stutzen kicks like an angry mule with surplus Nazi ammo. Cast should stop that nonsense.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Buckshot]

...........I've had several of these over the years. I paid $39 from Century when I had my 01 FFL. I still have 2 of'em. I converted one to 30-40 Krag.

http://www.fototime.com/CBEAAE5A40D244A/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/3F99F55C9811736/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/F2618D4764522E3/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/EF48A81FED28FD0/standard.jpg

The largest headache with these rifles is the extreme variability of the bore/groove & throat diameters. My first suggestion before you do anything is to slug the barrel. The 2nd thing (as a previous poster suggested) is to NEVER drop a round into the chamber and close the bolt on it. I HAVE done that before and have never busted an extractor. However the possibility is that it CAN happen. If it does, good luck in finding another without having to buy another rifle to get it. If you DO find a spare loose extractor thank GOD and be prepared to pay the devil's own price for it. At one time there were some around and the price for ONE started at $75.00.

When I got my first M95 the ONLY ammo for it was the milsurp stuff at $1.47 per box (2x5 rounds in clips). Berdan primed, corrosive, and powerfull. In order to reload, I had to convert the brass to use #209 shotshell primers: http://www.fototime.com/97D8CFD115331D0/standard.jpg

These are the cast boolit's I've used in my M95's: http://www.fototime.com/E5F797678DB6438/standard.jpg The slug marked 'A' is an old, no longer available Saeco mould for a .338gr PB shuetzen slug, 'B' Is the Lee 338 bullet, 'C' is the RCBS 338 bullet, and 'D' is a slug from the original "Frankenstein" mould produced by Mountain Moulds.

In this photo you can see just how long the Leade is: http://www.fototime.com/D3AE80EDB7CEA28/standard.jpg The slug in the photo is the Saeco scheutzen bullet.

Good luck. Enjoy yourself and don't give up too soon. These rifles CAN shoot if the barrel is in good shape. The triggers suck. The one I rebarreled to 30-40 Krag is very nicely accurate and the equal of many other milsurps.

.................Buckshot

[Battis]

Good info. Thanks.
What are the pros and cons of converting to 30-40 Krag? That is beyond my skill level for sure, but can any competent gunsmith do it?

[Buckshot]

Good info. Thanks.
What are the pros and cons of converting to 30-40 Krag? That is beyond my skill level for sure, but can any competent gunsmith do it?

Sure a gunsmith who does re-barreling can accomplish it as simply as most any other rifle. The only mod you need to made is on the clip' and they are simple.

http://www.fototime.com/8D145DDB43DD2B5/standard.jpg

Since the 30-40 case is smaller in OD then the 8x56, the lips at the top of the clip are turned inward to allow the boolit to 'Present' to the breech. Secondly, for the same OD issue, the lips at the bottom are turned in in order to keep the 5 rounds tight in the clip. Simple to do, and once done they're done. No extractor mods are required.

................Buckshot

[Battis]

I took Buckshot's advice and got a spare extractor. Apex Gun Parts has some in stock.
https://www.apexgunparts.com/rifles/bolt-action/m95.html/m95-extractor-8x56r.html.html

[Adam Helmer]

Guys,

I have a Model 1895 8X50MM Steyr rifle. I would like to reload for it. Where do I find reloading dies and brass? I cast 8MM boolits for many other rifles. Help???

Adam

[hpbear101]

CH4D supplied my 8X50R dies, they are not always in stock I wound up waiting 9 months before they notified me they were producing them. I believe Buffalo Arms CO, sells their dies so check there or with CH4D direct. Brass is easily made from 7.62X54R brass, one suggestion I would add is that the throats are very long on these, after you form the 54R brass try a dummy round with the 54mm long brass and it will likely load and function fine. That long neck is nice for cast bullet shooting. I use the Lee .329 mold and push through sizer, some bores can run on the large side and .338 can be sized down (would suggest a chamber cast or at minimum slug your bore to get a better idea on diameter) or I suspect Accurate or NOE also makes molds that would be good for the job.

[Battis]

I went to a store in Maine (not where I bought the rifle) and they had 11 boxes of the 1938 ammo (2 clips with Nazi markings, 5 rounds each clip per box) for $12. I bought 4 boxes. A week later I went back and the 7 boxes were still there, so I bought 2 more. I might go back and get the rest - they don't seem to be flying off the shelf.
I also got brass, dies and a Lee .329 mold from Midway. The barrel slugs at .329 but I can make it work.

[swheeler]

I fired 5 of the Nazi head stamped ammo over the chrony @ 70* F Sept 2009, averaged 2285 fps,I believe those are supposed to be 206 grain bullet, 2.5 inch group at 50 yds.

[Intel6]

I am casting and loading for my M95 also. Brass is PPU and I am using Lee dies and a cast "Frankenstein" bullet from a NOE mould. This bullet has a taper in the nose which seems to engage the rifling well. I coat and gas check them and seat them long to fill the magazine well up and not have too much bullet below the short neck.

One thing that really made loading this round better was the addition of the Lee custom factory collet crimp die. I am sizing the bullets at .340" and the seating die was not letting me crimp because the bullet was bigger in diameter. With the short neck there was not much friction on the bullet and I was having problems with the bullets getting pushed into the cases when chambering from the clip. The Lee FCD solved the issue and also gave me better ignition and more consistent loads.

In the pic L to R:

coated/GC/Sized bullet

as cast cull

loaded round showing how far I seat the bullet out.



234032

[Battis]

Did you slug the bore?

[Wayne Smith]

I am casting and loading for my M95 also. Brass is PPU and I am using Lee dies and a cast "Frankenstein" bullet from a NOE mould. This bullet has a taper in the nose which seems to engage the rifling well. I coat and gas check them and seat them long to fill the magazine well up and not have too much bullet below the short neck.

One thing that really made loading this round better was the addition of the Lee custom factory collet crimp die. I am sizing the bullets at .340" and the seating die was not letting me crimp because the bullet was bigger in diameter. With the short neck there was not much friction on the bullet and I was having problems with the bullets getting pushed into the cases when chambering from the clip. The Lee FCD solved the issue and also gave me better ignition and more consistent loads.

In the pic L to R:

coated/GC/Sized bullet

as cast cull

loaded round showing how far I seat the bullet out.



234032
I had the same problem with the Lee seat die and the Frnakenstein boolit. I contacted Lee, sent the die and a couple of Frankenstein boolits in, they opened up the die so the boolit fit in it and have been using it that way ever since. It crimps fine as long as the boolit can go up through the die and contact the seat stem.

[Battis]

I fired off a 5 round clip of the 1938 Nazi-marked ammo today. Anyone who said the rifle kicks was not joking. It's a thumper. Definitely a rifle for reloading. I have 95 rounds of that ammo left. I'm thinking it will be around a long time...

[RED BEAR]

I bought one 30 years or so ago told it was 8x56 when purchasing chamber cast reveals it to be 8x50 instead. Still haven't shot it but its in really good shape . Got it out a couple months ago ordered brass 7.62x54 and trimmed to length. Got clips still need dies but will get them soon and hope to get it to range soon.

[am44mag]

I fired off a 5 round clip of the 1938 Nazi-marked ammo today. Anyone who said the rifle kicks was not joking. It's a thumper. Definitely a rifle for reloading. I have 95 rounds of that ammo left. I'm thinking it will be around a long time...

I started out with 100 rounds of that stuff when I bought mine about 6-7 years ago. I think I'm down to about 75 rounds of it, lol. If you hand that gun to somebody who likes to talk about how well they can handle recoil, it sure does shut them up in a hurry!

[Gtek]

A bud and I ordered when they first hit the shores and a bunch of the German ammo, we still have a bunch of ammo. That monster is a cheek slapping shoulder smacking beast, and I have shot big stuff a lot. We had a little thing going called the Steyr Club, once started it was required to finish clip, humbled a few tough guys.

[Texas by God]

I sold my first one to a vaquero in North Colorado along with 100 rds of the surplus ammo. My brother showed him how to clip the tips off the bullets for hunting. He killed a cow elk from horseback with it I'm told. That poor horse must be deaf....

[Battis]

I think those five shots realigned my spine. I gave the carbine a nickname - the Hungarian Chiropractor.

[meistermash]

Well I think the nagants hit me harder than my m95. As long as I don't have my thumb behind the bolt. Then it will smack my thumb into my lip. I hate fat lip. Wish I'd have bought 4 or 5 of these when they were cheap.

[Dan Cash]

I don't understand the complaints about recoil with the M95. I have one, though it is a 95M converted to 8x57 and recoil is about the same as a 98 Mauser in same caliber. Have you guys only been shooting "cat sneeze loads?

[Battis]

I can shoot surplus Mosin ammo all day but the M95 carbine rattled me. I put a slip-on stock pad on the carbine and I'm wondering if that made it worse. I can't use one on my Mosin. Next time I'll try without the pad.

[Texas by God]

Dan Cash, it's the nazi 8x56R that is so nasty in the 95. Worse than any 98 I've ever shot and that's a bunch! If I still had one I'd rebarrel it to .30 Army or .303 British (if possible). Neat actions and so well made.

[junkbug]

Recoil is subjective. I do not find the M95 to kick painfully hard, even with the 1938 Austrian ammo. Also I have had several KAR98k rifles, and the recoil was not severe, even with WWII surplus ammo.

However, I have had 2 Kar98a (WWI) rifles. Both were the most painful rifles I ever fired, even with reloads from the starting load column of the old Sierra manual. Only a synthetic stocked H&R single shot 3" 12 gauge with slugs, or a Mossberg 835 with 3.5" goose loads came close.

I can only conclude the design and geometry of the buttstock caused such a difference between the KAR98k and the Kar98a. They all weigh about the same.

And that is only for me, and the way I hold them.

[swheeler]

I just recently started drawing down .338 Hot core 200 gr to load in the 8x56R, 46 grs IMR 4064 gives almost identical velocity as the Nazi ammo, but with an extreme spread of 1/4 that of the surplus ammo. Five of the surp gives 2285 fps with ES 124, yikes! mine average 2280 fps with ES 34 fps for 5. My 110 pound daughter and myself shot 50 of 44-45-46 and 47 gr loadings, she said no it doesn't kick bad Dad. She did find something I had never seen in the decade or so I've shot it though, the eagle with a wreath and swastika in it's talons( believe it is called Reichsadler)stamped on the bottom of all three enblock clips, so so tiny I never noticed! :-0 young eyes you know235110

[Battis]

Recoil is subjective
No, the force of a rifle coming backwards is as objective as the velocity of the bullet coming out the front; it can be measured (like trigger pull), therefor it is objective. But the measurement of objective recoil has to be based on shooting a specific gun with specific ammo; different guns with different ammo might produce more, or less, actual objective recoil. The perception of the recoil by a shooter is subjective to that shooter.

[pakmc]

...........I've had several of these over the years. I paid $39 from Century when I had my 01 FFL. I still have 2 of'em. I converted one to 30-40 Krag.

http://www.fototime.com/CBEAAE5A40D244A/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/3F99F55C9811736/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/F2618D4764522E3/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/EF48A81FED28FD0/standard.jpg

The largest headache with these rifles is the extreme variability of the bore/groove & throat diameters. My first suggestion before you do anything is to slug the barrel. The 2nd thing (as a previous poster suggested) is to NEVER drop a round into the chamber and close the bolt on it. I HAVE done that before and have never busted an extractor. However the possibility is that it CAN happen. If it does, good luck in finding another without having to buy another rifle to get it. If you DO find a spare loose extractor thank GOD and be prepared to pay the devil's own price for it. At one time there were some around and the price for ONE started at $75.00.

When I got my first M95 the ONLY ammo for it was the milsurp stuff at $1.47 per box (2x5 rounds in clips). Berdan primed, corrosive, and powerfull. In order to reload, I had to convert the brass to use #209 shotshell primers: http://www.fototime.com/97D8CFD115331D0/standard.jpg

These are the cast boolit's I've used in my M95's: http://www.fototime.com/E5F797678DB6438/standard.jpg The slug marked 'A' is an old, no longer available Saeco mould for a .338gr PB shuetzen slug, 'B' Is the Lee 338 bullet, 'C' is the RCBS 338 bullet, and 'D' is a slug from the original "Frankenstein" mould produced by Mountain Moulds.

In this photo you can see just how long the Leade is: http://www.fototime.com/D3AE80EDB7CEA28/standard.jpg The slug in the photo is the Saeco scheutzen bullet.

Good luck. Enjoy yourself and don't give up too soon. These rifles CAN shoot if the barrel is in good shape. The triggers suck. The one I rebarreled to 30-40 Krag is very nicely accurate and the equal of many other milsurps.

.................Buckshot

I have four of them, two carbines and two Rifles. and I don't shoot 1938-9 ammo in them (my old shoulders don't like that any more). I shoot powder coated lead. my barrels go from .330 to .333. so I use the Lee 338 cast bullet and resize it to .334. they're pretty accurate it weights about 240 gr.s. they seem to work in all four guns.(I have scout mount scopes on three of them.)depending on the powder and amount, they run from 1200FPS to 1600 FPS. I would love to see what one of these rounds would do to a pig!(but I'm too old to go tramping through the woods anymore.)

[swheeler]

Bullet Weight:
206
(gr)
Bullet Velocity:
2285
(fps)
Powder Charge Weight:
46
(gr)
Firearm Weight:
7.1
(lbs)
Recoil Impulse
3.11
(lbs.sec)
Recoil Velocity
14.1
(fps)
Recoil Energy
21.93
(ft.lbf

I had to take a WAG at the Nazi 1939 ammo as to powder charge, used the 46.0 grs I shoot. 22 lb ft of recoil is right in line with a 7 pound 308. You guys must be getting SOFT!!!!:bigsmyl2:

[fatelk]

I'll readily admit, you're more macho manly than I am. I've shot a lot of different guns over the years: .300 magnums, 45-70 loaded up, 12 gauge 3 1/2", etc. I've never shot any of the really big magnums, but I am used to fairly heavy recoil. I just don't really enjoy it any more. When I first got my M95 about 20 years ago, I shot a couple boxes of the '39 nazi ammo. Out of that little carbine with it's steel butt plate, I remember it as being downright painful, about the most painfully kicking gun I ever shot.

[Battis]

Powder Charge Weight:
46
(gr)

Was the 46 gr measurement from a pulled Nazi-era bullet?

[swheeler]

I'll readily admit, you're more macho manly than I am. I've shot a lot of different guns over the years: .300 magnums, 45-70 loaded up, 12 gauge 3 1/2", etc. I've never shot any of the really big magnums, but I am used to fairly heavy recoil. I just don't really enjoy it any more. When I first got my M95 about 20 years ago, I shot a couple boxes of the '39 nazi ammo. Out of that little carbine with it's steel butt plate, I remember it as being downright painful, about the most painfully kicking gun I ever shot.

I'll let my daughter know, she'll get a kick out of that! I've never really thought of her as macho or manly though;-)

[swheeler]

Was the 46 gr measurement from a pulled Nazi-era bullet?

Battis if you look at post 31 you'll see I used the load I shoot of 4064, I only had 15 rounds of the Nazi ammo and shot it up years ago, but I did chrono 5 rounds of it. 9-27-09 2265-2330-2215-2339-2275, 2285 FPS average, if you corrected that instrumental velocity(taken at 15 ft) to muzzle velocity you would be real close to 2300 and IIRC those were 206 gr bullets, no slouch! Recoil is an actual number in pounds feet, but what it feels like to different people is just opinion, nothing wrong with that at all.

[Battis]

Well...if you're gonna call us soft, you gotta use the same ammo. I'm kinda kidding, but, might the Nazi ammo measure different recoil, due to its age, unknown powder, etc? I'm not a fan of heavy recoil, but that M95 with the 1938 ammo is nasty, probably the worse I've ever fired. I use, and like, 4064 in various guns - I'll try it in the M95.

[swheeler]

All I had was 15 rds of the Nazi stuff and that was a long time ago, but yes it had a thump to it. Somebody with some Nazi ammo left could pull one down and weigh the powder charge, I just used an online recoil calculator. I did find it interesting that even the clips had tiny little swastikas stamped in the bottom, held in the talons of the eagle, they marked everything.

[Battis]

I bought a Lee mold and new brass, and when the weather breaks, I'll cast some bullets for it. I really like the gun, but I don't want to shoot too much of that Nazi ammo if I don't have to. My son was on leave over Xmas when I bought the carbine. We watched a few YouTube videos of the gun being fired with the old ammo and just about every shooter complained about the kick. Of course my son wanted to see for himself if it was that bad, but we couldn't find any Nazi ammo at the time. The day after he left to go back to ND I found a bunch of it. Might be awhile before he gets back this way. He'll probably tell me it kicks like a .22 just to bust 'em on me.

[swheeler]

My daughter just left for work and I let her read a couple posts here, I won't post what she said but I'm still giggling, the kid got my sense of humor! Still chuckling:bigsmyl2:

[fatelk]

I’m glad we can amuse you. I hope she got a real kick out of it! :)


No offense, but I’d like to be there to see you pull the trigger on an M95 carbine, with full power surplus ammo, and try to tell me with a straight face that it wasn’t bad. It’s not like we’re all a bunch of newbie wimps from arfcom who will whine about the kick of a Garand. Heck, I’ll shoot my M1s all day long with no problem, but five rounds of full power ammo through the little Steyr carbine? Only if I absolutely have to! :)

I prefer mine with cast, powder coated lead bullets going a bit slower. It tames it down nicely. I just don’t enjoy getting beat up anymore. I don’t have anything left to prove. :)

[Battis]

I pulled a 1938 Nazi bullet - it had approx. 43+ grs of a large flake powder. Each flake had a skull and crossbones stamped on it.

[Texas by God]

I pulled a 1938 Nazi bullet - it had approx. 43+ grs of a large flake powder. Each flake had a skull and crossbones stamped on it.Pics, please!

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[Buckshot]

Pics, please!

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He's kidding :-). No skull and cross bones :-)

[Texas by God]

I fell for it, didn't I?

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[Battis]

Well...yeah. I rechecked the flakes and saw a fake blonde woman's image in full Cherokee attire. Gotta watch those MA people.

[Shawlerbrook]

There’s not much to those little M95 carbines to absorb the recoil. I bought a case of the Nazi ammo about 30 years ago and made out like a bandit selling it by the box. The 2 clips alone were worth more than I paid per box. Somewhere in my stash I still have a few boxes left and my remaining M95 is a decoration on a wall of the cabin.

[Gtek]

Years ago had a fellow bench up next to me and he pulls out an M95. Curious I was having one myself for several years and left eye on him as he loads up and pops one off. Two foot fireball off muzzle and no movement of upper torso. Hmmm, could not take it, up and over I went. Just watching from behind he fires another to same effect. He ejects the case and I pick up this steel case 7.62x 54R case with a really funny neck. I had to interrupt his shooting and he informed me that "THE GUY AT THE GUN STORE SAID THIS IS WHAT IT TAKES"! Somewhere in the conversation it appeared that I had hurt his feelings and he packed and rolled, never did get which gun store. Oh well, anyway just so ya'll know you can pop off cheap 54R with little to no recoil.

[RED BEAR]

Believe i will pass on that one.

[Pioneer2]

Ammo was made in Austria also Nazi

[swheeler]

This guy blows through 25 rounds of that Nazi ammo and the recoil doesn't seem to bother him either :bigsmyl2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqw_SrL62fk

[fatelk]

I could go through 25 rounds just as quick and easy as he did, myself. I'd sure as heck feel it the next day though.

I never said I couldn't shoot it. I'm just old enough to not pretend I'm any tougher than I am, and honest enough to admit when it hurts.

[Battis]

These shooters really enjoyed the recoil. Around 4:40 in the video he talks about the ammo.:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd0kcuy7LPw

Watch this shooter around 5:00 into the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKUm1uILC-o

[swheeler]

These guys all agree that the m95 carbine is a "girls" gun, yeppers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkgfrS9FanU

[Battis]

I was able to translate what they were saying: "Yep, this gun kicks but nothing like the M95."

[swheeler]

sweet:bigsmyl2:

[Gtek]

How long before we are all saying, man, that thing will kick the table cloth off of your head? Said with all cultural sensitivity implied, tax, tag, title not included.

[fatelk]

These shooters really enjoyed the recoil. Around 4:40 in the video he talks about the ammo.:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd0kcuy7LPw

Watch this shooter around 5:00 into the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKUm1uILC-o

I can feel their pain! You just don't expect that little rifle to beat you up that bad. (Unless you're a girl, then it ain't nuthin') :)

It is interesting how recoil affects people differently. A decade or so ago I took along a couple rifles when visiting family out of state. One of them was an H&R break-open single shot in 45-70. I had a 50 round box full of 500 grain rounds, with a max-for-the-gun charge of RL7. It's one heck of a stiff load. I think it might just be more punishing than the M95, even with the recoil pad on the H&R! I don't care to shoot more than a couple of those loads at a time anymore, but two skinny, teenage nephews shot up the whole box, and were wanting more!

[Battis]

I have a felt recoil theory. Recoil doesn't bother skinny guys 'cause the shock travels down their twig arms to their stick legs and into the ground. Beefy guys feel recoil more because the shock gets knocked around their beefy innards like a pinball and never makes it to the ground. I like cupcakes and pizza so I feel recoil more. The M95s didn't bother the Hungarians because...wait for it...they were always Hungry.