Ladle vs Bottom Pour

[GregLaROCHE]

It seems a lot of people believe using a ladle to pour gives better results. How many people agree with this and if so, better in what way(s).
Thanks

[barrabruce]

I ladle pour cos I’m to stingy to by a letric one and have to run leads here or there.
I mostly positive pour as in put the spout into the mould ala Lyman style.
I get a nice flat full base.

If I pour from a ways above the mold I don’t seem to get as good fill out unless I overflow the mold for a bit.

Some of my moulds like a different pour and cadence as I get feathering.

I mostly use a kero burner outside and a fan blowing.
I find it better than being locked into a hot garage to cast.
I suppose I could be missing out of the fumes chasing or killing the creepy crawlers in there thou.

Ladle pouring gives me options I suppose and I don’t have to stoop to see where the leads going.

[2011redrider]

Started w lee drip o magic bottom pour. Couldn't get it to stop dripping and replaced the pot liner with a solid one with No hole for spout for spout.

When the new RCBS came out I got the easy melt that is ladle pour only. Had rebates and it was only 75 bucks I believe. Works great w built in pic. Only problem is it takes about 2 hrs to cool off enough to unplug it as the pid electronics need the fan to keep them cool until pot gets to 160, at least thats what the manuals shows.
Much better bullets w pressure pour if needed or w a 1 lb bottom pour ladle.

[winelover]

Ladle pouring gives me more uniform bullets, in terms of weight, thus a higher percentage of keepers.

Winelover

[ABJ]

The only way I get great boolits with a ladle is pressure casting(ladle spout in the sprue plate.) Bottom pour with the sprue plate very close to the pot spout and a puddle of lead on top yields my best bullets. The farther away from the spout on bottom pour starts to affect the base fill out on flat base or gas check shanks. I will admit that on big long boolits, pressure casting works best for me, other than that, bottom pour is my preferred method.
Tony

[tazman]

I don't know any way a person could get better results than I do with my Lee 20lb bottom pour pot.

[reddog81]

I don't know any way a person could get better results than I do with my Lee 20lb bottom pour pot.

That's my sentiment also. And at rate that's much quicker.

[Shuz]

Bottom pour insures that you don't get impurities in your boolits because they float to the top. Also, the pot is easier to maintain the same temp if you apply a layer of new kitty litter on top. This keeps the heat in, as well as preventing oxidation of your melt. You can also tandem cast with two moulds much faster with the bottom pour method. I can maintain the same relative flow into the mould as the melt level drops by adjusting the pot handle lever screw.
I discarded my ladle over 50 years ago when I bought my first Lyman 20 pound furnace. I now use an RCBS Pro-melt and I love it.

[upnorthwis]

I started out with a ladle but once a neighbor gave me a bottom pour, I never went back. Have had a Lee 10 lb. for 20 years now and yes it was a drip-o-matic. So I tapped a hole in the plunger and put a handle on it. Just give it a flick now and then.

[LWSTARKS]

I use the Lyman pro furnace and don’t think I’d have the patience to go to using a ladle.

[MT Gianni]

I started with bottom pours and found that fill out problems were eliminated with ladle filling. I had some recalcitrant molds that resisted with a cavity or more and went to a ladle for almost all of my pours.

[jmort]

Do you put the ladle spout on the mold cavity hole in the sprue plate or just get it close enough to get a good pour???

[oldblinddog]

Do you put the ladle spout on the mold cavity hole in the sprue plate or just get it close enough to get a good pour???

Put the ladle in contact with the sprue plate. I have only cast with a ladle, never a bottom pour. However, my ladle is a bottom pour like this one https://www.rotometals.com/casting-ladle-bottom-pour-rowell-1-2-1-4-bowl-diameter-9-handle-length/

[jmort]

I have a #1 (and a #7 for ingots), and a Lyman and a soup ladle with a 3/32" hole as devised by one of our members, aka Grumpy Old Man. I never pressure pour, i.e. zero contact with ladle and sprue plate. This video shows a #1 and the soup ladle with 3/32" hole which works really well (at 6:45 mark) of this most interesting video.

https://youtu.be/-ZQQ159QJCo

[oldblinddog]

That is slick!

[mdi]

All the opinions above are personal preferences. For each individual that posted, the choice is what works best for them and all the reasons can be debated. I have done both, but I prefer an electric bottom pour pot. Fill out, speed, temp control are all done by the user for a particular style of casting that works for them. Most casters can extol the benefits of their choice and condemn the other. I used a Lyman style ladle for a couple years and got good, clean bullets, and I now use a bottom pour and get good clean bullets...

[waksupi]

I never could keep a six cavity mold at heat with a dip pot.

[plainsman456]

Tried both but with bottom pour i make more boolits faster.

That molds are their own problem and you have to figure out what they like.

[Bait O' Eggs]

I have been pouring lead for decades, mostly fishing stuff, used a soup can bent up with a pour spout and a vice grip holding it for about 40 years. I bought a 20lb lee drip o'matic a year ago and cant believe I didnt do that a long time ago. So much faster and easier.

[Larry Gibson]

I use both methods. Which simply depends on the size (weight) of the bullet I casting. Generally for 300 gr or less I use the bottom pour (Lyman Mag20) although I have one 350 gr mould that casts excellently using the bottom pour. For most others 375+ gr I use a ladle.

[tazman]

I use both methods. Which simply depends on the size (weight) of the bullet I casting. Generally for 300 gr or less I use the bottom pour (Lyman Mag20) although I have one 350 gr mould that casts excellently using the bottom pour. For most others 375+ gr I use a ladle.

Interesting. If you would, I would be interested in hearing the reasons for that.

[Walks]

Ladle pour with 1cav molds.

Bottom spout with 2+cav molds.

This is the method My DAD & Uncle used with H & G 8-10cav molds over a 100lb Plumbers Pot 60yrs ago. They used 3 molds each & 2 helpers.

Why would you drop PURE Lead into water ? Why quench balls for Black powder Shooting. makes no sense.

[gwpercle]

I started in 1967...long time ago and did ladle casting with single and double cavity moulds. At first I just used an old kitchen type spoon (think Lee's) it wasn't that great so next got a Lyman ladle with the side spout...That worked much better, used that method for years (decades). Joined this site and heard how you have to use a bottom pour to cast with .... OK...I buy a bottom pour. What I discover is for some reason, with my single and double cavity moulds I can a lot of boolits but most go back into the pot because of defects. Thinking more cavities might help I buy 3 and 4 cavity moulds.
Now I can make huge piles of boolits with lots of defects !!!! I pull out my Ladle and go back to basic's, just about every boolit's a keeper, few rejects and I'm happy.
Mailed the bottom pour to a fellow member who had a house fire, lost most everything and wanted it.
I haven't missed it a bit.
One bit of advice if you are going to ladle cast ...go big on the pot, I got a Lee Magnum Melter and the 15 - 20 pound capacity is wonderful, should have got one decades ago. Small pots really hamper production...get a pot that's large.
Gary

[country gent]

. I ladle cast for years doing pistol bullets. When I start BPCR silhouette I went to ladle pouring for a couple reasons. These bullets are long 1.3" - 1.5" and I get better fill with the ladle. I like to over pour the moulds letting excess run back in the pot. ( I don't pour for a sprue but a ladle full of metal and the sprue forms from what's left) Doing this with a bottom pour makes a mess. Last I use a big pot to cast from now, it doesn't take long casting 550 grn 45s to empty a 20 lb pot. My current set up is gas fired and the pot holds 125lbs of lead.

With the shorter lighter pistol bullets there wasn't a lot of difference between ladle and bottom pour as to weight and fill out same with shorter rifle bullets. WIth the heavy for caliber rifle bullets and bottom pour 1 1/2 grns was about the best spreads I got. With the ladle I'm under 1 grn close to 1/2 grn on these heavy for caliber bullets.

Also my ladles are no longer stock in they have been polished some and the spouts opened up to .210 size ( improves flow ).

My procedure is as follows:
Pre heat moulds and bring pot to 725*-750*
once lead is to temp place ladle in pot I have a stop on th shaft that hooks on edge of pot keeping it in place. Let it warm for 5-7 mins to temp.
Start pouring moulds on the warming shelf are a little warm and need time to cool starting out But II normally get good bullets from the first pour like this.
I run 2moulds at a time.
As stated above when filling I hang the mould over the pot and pour a ladle full of lead into it letting the excess run back into the pot. With the big pot I can cast a bunch of bullets in a sitting. I normally flux with wood shavings wax every 100-150 pours.
When I fill the ladle I push it to the bottom of the pot and make a swirl then lift and pour. This helps keep the 20-1 alloy mixed and fills the ladle with good hot metal.

[Larry Gibson]

Interesting. If you would, I would be interested in hearing the reasons for that.

I normally run the alloy temp in the Mag20 at 710 - 725 degrees. Even at that and the spout wide open the alloy cools and solidifies very quickly, especially in colder casting room temps, many times quicker than the alloy stays molten in larger cavities and even in some 200+ gr long for caliber bullets. That results in wrinkled of not fully filled out bullets. The Lyman Mag20 allows easy adjustment of the spout stem stop so I can increase the flow for larger bullets less than 300 - 350 gr. With other bullets, especially multiple cavity moulds, I open the stop up to allow an even flow of alloy as the alloy drops in the pot.

I've tried different ladles but find a Lyman dipper with the spout drilled out larger allows the molten alloy to get into the larger mould cavities (larger 300 - 350+ bullets) as quick as practical and completely fills them out before the alloy solidifies. I use the ladle technique as outlined in Lyman's CBH #3 and older Lyman manuals. Holding the mould over the pot while pouring allows a generous sprue and run off which also is essential to both ladle and bottom pour methods.

[tazman]

Thank you for the explanation. It makes sense now that I have the details.

[curioushooter]

My vote is for bottom pour, provided that the unit is a good one. My Father-In-Law has a Lee Production Pot, bottom pour, with this hinged nozzle. Never can get it to work right. On the other hand my Lee Pro 4-20 is easy to control and never spills or misses a beat.

The reason why I think bottom pour is better is that one can float a layer of interfacing on top of the melt to prevent oxidation and insulate without having to worry about dross getting picked up. Some people use kitty litter (I personally think this not advisable), but the idea is sound with wood ashes.

I flux with clean southern yellow pine planer shavings (the sappier the better). I have found it to be better than everything else I have tried from tallow to stearic acid to paraffin to beeswax. When you use shavings or saw dust to flux you end up with a raft of wood ashes that float on top. This is very beneficial as it keeps heat in and more importantly prevents the oxidation of the tin. When I am done casting I let the residual melt cool in the bottom of the pot and then upend it and dump out the ashes into a garbage can.

If I were to try a ladle pour, I think I would pick up the ashes floating on top.

[dwtim]

I am not a fan of complicating things that could be simple. I have read far too many threads written by pour souls (get it?) with clogged spouts. I don't use an open ladle, so I have no problems with surface impurities or pour pressure. But this is my opinion, based on my needs. I think it depends on what you need to accomplish.

Ladle Pour:
Less complicated pot set-up
Simple pot tolerates dirty range scrap, junk yard scrap, etc. without loss of reliability
Easier to use many types of smaller molds in same session (I do this because the molds get too hot, so I just switch molds back and forth instead of slowing down)

Bottom-Pour:
More efficient use of material....can get closer the bottom of the pot without slowing down
Higher productivity
Enhanced safety, cleanliness; less chance of burns from splatter

[GregLaROCHE]

With a ladle, how do you keep the flux from the top of the melt, out of it? Do you use a cover of flux kitty litter on top of the melt like with bottom pour pots?

[winelover]

Bottom pour or ladle, I do very little fluxing in the casting pot............. major fluxing should be done in the smelting pot. Starting with clean alloy, only a pea sized piece of beeswax is added to my casting pot, allowed to burn off then skimmed. Never floated kitty litter in either type of casting pots.

When ladle casting, using a #2 Rowell (bottom pour) ladle...............prevents major oxidation bcause it pretty much covers the entire surface of the melt, when floating in the pot between pours.

Winelover

[Petander]

Some molds can be quite sensitive to pour pressure changes that occur with bottom pour pots. Unless you adjust while casting... but that randomizes things even more.

I have one 458 brass double cavity mold that I only ladle cast with, to keep things consistent. Others I bottom pour.

[country gent]

If you dip the ladle to the bottom of the pot everything floats out of it on the swirl, Its then full when it comes thru the surface and cant pick a lot up. Th is requires enough led in the pot to completely to work when the ladle is no longer covered it will pick up surface floaters.

[WheelgunConvert]

I always felt like I needed a third arm while using a ladle.
I keep a tall column of melt in my lee BP20. I blip the handle before I pour to keep the spout up to temp and liquid

[lightman]

I started with a 10# Lyman cast iron pot on a Coleman Stove and a Lyman ladle. As soon as we could afford a bottom pour pot we bought a 10# Lyman electric bottom pour pot and never looked back. I still have the Coleman Stove, the cast iron pot and the ladle. The Coleman Stove serves as a back-up for ice storms, the cast iron pot holds the dross that I skim off of my electric pot and the ladle just hangs out with the spoons and smelting stuff, pretty much retired. WheelgunConvert pretty much tagger it about needing a 3rd hand!

Its all about personal preference and probably a little about how you got started. My method with a bottom pour pot is that I handle the mold with my left hand and hold my plastic hammer (mold tapper) in my right and work the lever with my right hand, never putting either one of them down.

[MT Gianni]

I flux in my mixing pot and use it for ingots. I only put clean alloy in my casting pot and may flux once if I see impurities. I then clean all ash off and ladle pour from the middle of the pot. I may continue to empty the ladle for small bullets over the mold to unify weights. I have a 225438 single cavity I have measures at less than 0.1 gr weight differences per 100 bullets using this method.

[willicd76]

I plan on starting with the soup ladle with a hole in it. I like the KISS methods best!

[Brad Cayton]

I started casting 40+ years ago with a ladle but then went to a bottom pour. I cast from .32, 98 grain to .459, 500 grains with my Lee bottom pour and adjust my heat till I get the fill out I need.

[Petander]

I sometimes keep RCBS Pro Melt in the "sweet spot" by adding clean alloy and taking breaks. There is a few inches "spot" when everything is right for a mold.

Doing 12 gauge slugs right now, the mold rests on a hot plate and after a while I go back and cast a few dozen. Then add alloy and come back to watch TV,pet the cat,eat Christmas delicacies and drink beer. Then go back to cast when I feel like it.

Such a bad life.

[toallmy]

I do most of my casting with a couple lee 4/20 bottom pore pots , but I picked up a little 10 pound Lyman from a member here for a friend that sent it back to me ' he likes his cast iron pot better ' and it's nice for small jobs dipping pure . In a perfect world I would just set right beside my smelting pot and cast right out of it . Letting the run over run back in the pot , but even with a home made heat shield it gets hot on my legs really quick . That reminds me I need to get some coffee tins filled up soon .

[sathington]

I'm fairly new to casting, only a couple of years and not too consistently. After starting on a drippy Lee bottom pour, I recently bought a nice Waage pot and have switched to ladle pouring. I get less rejects and enjoy it more. I'm not knowledgeable enough yet to claim I know for sure why that is, but if I had to guess, I would reckon it's the art part of casting and not the science. My rhythm seems to be better and more consistent with ladle and I'm not stressing about the constant dripping of the Lee pot. Once we move to a house with an actual garage, I'll start saving my coins for a nicer bottom pour unit, but for now, the big pot and the big ladle do me good.

[jmort]

I have the Old Pro Melt and the Waage pot. Both are excellent .

[Drifty4]

I like to use the RCBS ladle. Putting it in contact with the sprue plate when pouring adds the content of the ladle to the sprue until it sets up. I think it gives me more pressure as I fill the mold.

[Bigslug]

I don't have enough hands to ladle cast. I'm not sure what the idea number would be, but experience tells me that it's probably north of 4.

[RED BEAR]

i ladle pour because i started that way and if it ain't broke don't fix it. i really can't say if it is better or not as i have never used a bottom pour. i may try bottom pouring one day but what i do works for me and don't see the extra expense.

[Boolseye]

I’m primarily a bottom pour guy and when I do my part, I get good slugs.
I have no doubt that a skilled ladle pourer will get similar or better results.

[krems]

I use both. I prefer bottom pour for harder alloys such as Lyman #2, and for most handgun/ levergun bullets where speed trumps ultra precision bullets. But when casting with 20-1 or 30-1 alloy for large - big BP target bullets where precision trumps speed ladle casting is the only way I can get target grade bullets consistently.

[largecaliberman]

I first started ladle pouring it was ok however was rather slow caused by overpouring, spills, etc. I then graduated to a Lee bottom pour and after a while my Lee bottom pour pot became a Lee Drip-o-Matic. Decided an RCBS and have been using it ever since. Bottom pour is the best way to go for me because its less mess and I can cast more boolits. In addition to the speed of casting, its easier to control the temperature. Still use my propane burner though to smelt my raw lead to smelt in my 120 lb capacity cast iron pot.

[Boolseye]

This thread got me thinking more about ladle casting. My only experience is with the tiny Lee dipper and their small melter. Will a Lyman ladle function with Lee's baby melter (4#)? I don't wish to upgrade the furnace. Well, maybe. [smilie=f:

[whisler]

Yes it will. I use that combo for casting round balls for muzzleloader.

[bedbugbilly]

I've been dipping for 55 years - I bought a Lee bottom feeder and that lasted about one session. I just didn't like it - but a lot of folks do and seem to work 'em just fine. After years of using a propane hotplate, I bought two of he Lee large size electric dipper pots - keep one for pure lead and the other for range lead. I've used just about every make of mold there is over the years and it wasn't until a few years ago that I had anything larger than a 2 cavity. Now, I have several 4 and 5 cavity NOE aluminum molds. I don't have any problem keeping them up to heat and all chambers dropping with a ladle - but they are all 158 gr or less 358 - 360 did. I bought a used 5 cavity 454-190 style RNFP NOE from a member here but I haven't tried it yet as I have plenty of that boo lit already cast. A larger size boolit in a 5 cavity may be a challenge with the dipper - we'll see.

[Arkansas Paul]

I like to ladle heavier bullets like .44 mag and .45 Colt.

.38 and .357, .40 and such usually get bottom poured.

[rockrat]

Tried casting with a ladle, Once. Went back to my bottom pour and never looked back. That was 45+ years ago.

[RogerDat]

I use the Lyman little dipper, similar to the RCBS ladle. I started with a ladle and it worked. I feel comfortable working above the pot and find that the ability to pour excess and to control the way the pour is delivered. Pressure pour, swirl in, down the hatch all have their place with different molds. I also allow/use overflow to help add heat to a mold when required and the excess from that just flows back into the pot.

I have been known to cast out of a really big pot as some others have mentioned. Now I mostly use a 20# Lee. If I did or in the future do more 6 cavity molds especially for pistol having a straight forward profile and not having a huge volume to the cavity then I may give a bottom pour a shot. So far no compelling reason to buy a bottom pour pot. I can see where people do find them to their preference.

As to how many hands one needs, mold goes in left hand, ladle goes in right.... I keep the mold whacker tucked in my left armpit, handle forward. Like a riding crop in an old movie. When needed I set the ladle in the pot, reach up and grab the whacker handle to pull it out, tap the mold with the whacker then tuck back under armpit when done. Less of a reach and always in the same position. Not sure how using a bottom pour would be much different. Handle on spout rather than ladle to grab. Doesn't seem like it would be all that different.

I too use nothing in the pot but a bit of wax and stir & skim the melt with a paint stir stick cut short every once in awhile. Have a bent table spoon that I can use to scoop up any of the skimmings I don't want in my way.

Maybe I will get together with one of the area casters that uses a bottom pour, give it a try and fall in love. Or at least enough lust to part with some cash to buy a bottom pour. Until then ladle sure works well enough for me. I would be inclined to spend the money on a bottom pour ladle for making ingots before a bottom pour pot. Cleaner ingots from bottom pour ladle would be a nice thing.

[Boolseye]

I just have to say...the Lee 4-20 is a lot of pot for not much money. If you're ever interested in going to the other side, that's where you start.

[RogerDat]

I just have to say...the Lee 4-20 is a lot of pot for not much money. If you're ever interested in going to the other side, that's where you start. That is the model I sort of had my eye on. People have added weight to the front handle so that it gets a more positive seal. Something as simple as slipping a large nut on the handle can make a difference from what has been said.

Assuming you mean this one...
https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-pro-4-20-lb-melter-110-volt

While this is what I use with a ladle.
https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-precision-reloading-equipment/lee-melters/lee-magnum-melter-110-volt

At $59 vs $69 not a huge difference in price. At gun shows I have seen the small 10# pots as bottom pour. Use a pin that looks like a hinge pin drops into the bottom spout lifted by a mechanism much like the pro melter bottom pour pot.

Problem is if I even think about spending $70 on a second melter I immediately think of a mold or tool of some sort that I don't have even one of and the money goes there. :-) Last time I considered looking for a bottom pour pot I ended up with gas check making dies.

[Baltimoreed]

I only have the two hands but they seem to be able to operate the mould, ladle and wacker pretty good. Mold stays in left, ladle/wacker in right, rest mold on edge of pot, fill ladle pour lead into mold, put ladle back in pot, pick up wacker, cut off sprue so that it falls back into the pot, open mold so bullet/s falls into bucket of water on the floor, maybe have to tap the hinge, use wacker to turn sprue cutter, lay down wacker, pick up ladle, repeat. I do this standing with the pot and wacker on a waist high workbench. At 68 it does get tedious so I tend to do a small lee pots worth of bullets and then take a break. While I’m resting I’ve refilled my pot with ww and range pick ups and it’s heating back up. When I start back I stir, flux, clean out the floating junk and cast another pots worth.

[Jruby38]

I **** caned the ladles 30 year ago I got my first bottom pot. A lot faster with better quality. Not all the crud from the top of the pot.

[Boolseye]

The 4-20 responds well to lapping the spout from the inside with the rod that lives there, then adding some weight to the handle through the use of a few heavy washers. Turns it from a drip-o-matic to a smooth running unit. a lot smoother than it had been anyway.
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[GLynn41]

I started casting with a bottom pour Lee,, got tired of the drip and finally switched to a 10# Lee pot and now a 20#. Have not used a bottom pour in 30+ years, and I am still happy. Years ago NRA articles on casting; dipping verses bottom pour, was bottom pour fill out better and weigh more, just a little. Still I am fine.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I weighed some of my ladle poured Lyman postel bullets a few days ago.
I finally got a nice digital scale so it makes it easier.
Once the mold was up to temp and my cadence right every bullet was looking perfect.
I measured 5 randomly and the extreme spread was about 1.3 grains. I have to weight a larger batch but I can tell just looking at my bottom pour attempts on this mould that they were no where near as consistent.