Firing lead shot from rifled barrel?

[Swampwalker]

As deer season closed yesterday I'm looking for a way to keep using my .54 renegade for small game and was curious if this was possible with a plastic shotgun wad or something similar? Or is this just a terrible idea to even consider. I hear many run a reduced charge with a rb and aim for the head which I plan on trying to improve my accuracy. Just keep coming back to they use a sabot in a rifled barrel why not a shot wad?

[725]

I'd expect the pattern to be poor & very close range. Experimentation is the best. Let us know.

[Swampwalker]

That seems to.be the general consensus. However I have not seen anyone try a wad. One guy spoke of making a paper shot cartridge. But only demonstrated a non papered load. Accuracy to 15 yards was good enough to consider with a shot cup to limit shot to rifling contact may help tighten the groupings to a reliable 20 yard small game firearm. As most rabbits and squirrels I have taken are in the ten yard range it's has roused my curiosity at least.

[mazo kid]

I haven't tried it yet, but have read of making card-stock shot cups. Cut an "X" shaped piece of stock (file folder) with the center cut to approximate bore diameter, push into bore with dowel, folding petals up. Fill with shot, cover with snug over-shot wad and push down bore. Probably use an over powder wad too. Let us know if you try this.

[Rusty Gunn]

I do what Mazo does,but with a 62 cal because the pattern with the larger bore is much better than with my 54 cal. at 30 yds. I tried an over powder hard card and a felt wad and got the best pattern.
YMMV. RG

[megasupermagnum]

I've fired shotshells through rifled shotgun barrels for fun before. There's no point in trying it in your 54, you will never find anything that will work. From a rifled 12 gauge, you might have an effective pattern to 10-15 yards, no more. Maybe the slow twist round ball guns have a chance, but a 1:48" twist renegade wont.

[Outpost75]

Results will be better in a very slow twist muzzleloading rifle barrel than with a modern gun. Shallow rifling is also less harmful than deep. Not from a muzzleloading gun, but this is a 25-foot pattern fired with my lever-action Marlin .44-40. For scale, the D1C repair center is 11 inches square. The small inner ring is 4", the larger outer ring is 8" and YES, I have killed grouse and the like at close range within 10 yards.

1/3 oz. of No.8 shot loaded in Starline 5 in 1 blank case, Federal 410SC plastic shot cup and 5 grains of Bullseye, for complete loading instructions see:

https://www.44winchestercenterfirecartridges.com/single-post/2018/01/13/Loading-44-Game-Getter-Shot-from-Starline-5-in-1-Blank-cases

My review on Midway:

From West Virginia
Verified Buyer

The Starline 5 in 1 Blank cases work well to assemble handgun shotshells useable in the .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .38-40, .44-40 and .45 Colt revolvers. Powder charges must be kept mild due to the enlarged flash hole. I use 5 grains of Alliant Bullseye or 6 grains of WST or 231 and a Winchester Large Pistol primer. A Buffalo Arms .45 card wad must be inserted over the powder charge, first inserting the card sideways with tweezers, pushing it about halfway into the case, before rotating it to bridge across the interior case wall and then aligning and pressing it down against the powder using a 3/8" dowel. Next a Federal 410SC shot cup is inserted firmly against the card, seated with the dowel and its protruding wad fingers trimmed off with a sharp knife. It is absolutely necessary to use the .45 card under the plastic shot cup because it is not of sufficient diameter to prevent powder from otherwise leaking around it, which will cause bloopers. Load about 1/3 oz. of fine shot not larger than 7-1/2, to maintain adequate pellet count, within 1/8" of the case mouth. Insert a .38 cal. Buffalo Arms card wad over the shot and then crimp the shell using either a .44 Long Shot, .45 ACP Shot or Lee .308 Winchester seating die which has been shortened by 1" and a blank RCBS sizer-lubricator top punch positioned and adjusted in the seating stem collar to hold the top card at the mid point of the die shoulder, while the case mouth is bumped against the shoulder to form a nice, professional looking crimp. Waterproof the shell by painting the top wad with clear urethane or varnish. These produce rabbit and grouse killing patterns patterns at 20 feet with No.8s and burn rattlers to "snakeburgers" at 15 feet. More effective than the Speer factory shot and useable in a variety of guns. I pack 20 of these in each vehicle or aircraft survival kit.

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[megasupermagnum]

I guess if 10 yards is all your looking for, that looks like it will do. So would a slingshot, or a pointy stick.

[OverMax]

There still around.
Buy a T/c Smooth Ball 56 cal barrel. Bump deer & rabbits and the occasional partridge on the same day with the same rifle.

[str8wal]

a shot cup to limit shot to rifling contact may help tighten the groupings

Unfortunately, a shot cup will have the opposite effect as the rifling will spin it and the shot will leave the barrel in a donut like pattern with no middle. The T/C 45/410 barrels have a special "choke" that has ribs to stop the cup from spinning as it leaves the barrel. Try shooting one without the choke in and you will see what I mean.

[country gent]

What you might try is a Shot cup made for what you want. Make a mandrel .008 under dia you want. cut a template for 2 wraps of tracing paper with angled ends to just meet. roll this around mandrel and fold base over the edge closing one end. Fill with shot and a thin card wad or fold top over. Like a paper patched bullet. Will be a close range load still but may do a little better do to spin.

[GregLaROCHE]

If shot cups go through full chokes, there should be no reason it wouldn’t shoot, but the pattern won’t be useful for much. One of the reasons chokes were invented. Also coming out spinning can’t be good either.

[GregLaROCHE]

I miss understood the question. I first thought it was about shooting through a modern rifled shotgun barrel. The 54 didn’t make sense, but I thought it was a new model I wasn’t familiar with.

But what you’re talking about is a different story. I’m sure it was done in the past. I’m no expert, but I bet there is a way to make it work. At least more or less. I would try to keep plastic out of the equation.

[indian joe]

I miss understood the question. I first thought it was about shooting through a modern rifled shotgun barrel. The 54 didn’t make sense, but I thought it was a new model I wasn’t familiar with.

But what you’re talking about is a different story. I’m sure it was done in the past. I’m no expert, but I bet there is a way to make it work. At least more or less. I would try to keep plastic out of the equation.

Played with this a bit over the years - seems like plastic shot wads in a a rifled barrel give that donut pattern - proly do better with just card wad under the shot - pattern spreads out quicker than a cylinder bore but still useful up close - can get a decent load in a 54 or 58 muzzle loader - keep the powder charge low helps a lot with pattern
summer here I carry a 22 with ratshot (no 12 shot) for my snake gun - never failed to anchor one with the first round (yeah they only wounded and mad as hell but aint goin anywhere so they easy to finish off) this has the great advantage you dont have to look what is in the background! can shoot up against just about anything except plastic waterpipes with out blowin stuff to smithereens.

[GregLaROCHE]

Played with this a bit over the years - seems like plastic shot wads in a a rifled barrel give that donut pattern - proly do better with just card wad under the shot - pattern spreads out quicker than a cylinder bore but still useful up close - can get a decent load in a 54 or 58 muzzle loader - keep the powder charge low helps a lot with pattern
summer here I carry a 22 with ratshot (no 12 shot) for my snake gun - never failed to anchor one with the first round (yeah they only wounded and mad as hell but aint goin anywhere so they easy to finish off) this has the great advantage you dont have to look what is in the background! can shoot up against just about anything except plastic waterpipes with out blowin stuff to smithereens.

I had a problem once when marten stared raiding my cabin when I was gone for a few days. When I got back, in the middle of the night they would run over my face while I was sleeping. I picked up some snake shot for my 44mag the next time in town. In two nights they were all done in.

[waksupi]

One of the young guys in our club used shot in his rifle at a rendezvous a few years ago. He had punched out card wads, and used those. He was pretty consistent on breaking clay birds out to around 25 yards.
Try it out, see how it patterns to judge what range is workable. Rifled barrels tend to shoot in a doughnut, with a sparse pattern at the center.

[Swampwalker]

Yes I.probably should have mentioned that I'm shooting a .54 cal t/c renegade with an early Sharon Barrel. The rifling us not very deep so I would say it's a shallow cut. But not positive. I'm guessing its a 1:48 twist as it fires rb and conicals decently in my last outing I brought some REALS and maxi's loaded with felt wads with me and was pleased with consistent 3 shot groups 2.5 -3" spread at 75 yards.

[fastdadio]

As deer season closed yesterday I'm looking for a way to keep using my .54 renegade for small game and was curious if this was possible with a plastic shotgun wad or something similar? Or is this just a terrible idea to even consider. I hear many run a reduced charge with a rb and aim for the head which I plan on trying to improve my accuracy. Just keep coming back to they use a sabot in a rifled barrel why not a shot wad?

I've done it. a 28 ga shot cup fits a .54 bore like it's made for it. My results were dismal, and the effort wasn't worth the price of the wads. From about 20 yds, I think about 3 BB's hit the paper. It was almost like that shot cleared the muzzle and went side ways.

[Swampwalker]

Mega I would use both those to hunt with if it were an option in the state I unfortunately live in. And the purpose of this was to give myself more time and practice with the muzzleloader in the field.

[Texas by God]

In a survival situation one time in South Texas, I took the shot from a 410 shotgun shell used toilet paper wadding and fired it from my 45 caliber Kentucky rifle. With one shot I got three Field Larks sitting on the ground in the 5-degree weather. They made a pretty tasty meal.
Back home I tested it again and the pattern was horrible.
A higher power guided my shot that day I believe.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[indian joe]

I've done it. a 28 ga shot cup fits a .54 bore like it's made for it. My results were dismal, and the effort wasn't worth the price of the wads. From about 20 yds, I think about 3 BB's hit the paper. It was almost like that shot cleared the muzzle and went side ways.

I dont have any science but I reckon a rifled barrel does way better with just a shot charge and a card wad - the plastic shot cup wad didnt work for me either.

[rfd]

yeesh, what a waste of time and money that's all better spent on doing it proper with a smoothbore.

[RedLeaf67]

I have had outstanding results making homemade shot cups in slow twist barrel. out to 20 -25 yards. For a 50 cal I use a tube from dry cleaners hanger or 7/16th dowel as Cartridge former. 1 1/2" x 3" of light cardboard such as File Folder or waxed cardboard from box of Frozen Vegetables is about right. Wrap around former tape closed w/ scotch Tape plug bottom w/ glued in card board or cotton. I use 45 G of fff G & 45- 50 G of # 7 1/2 bird shot. 1 over powder card, stack of 4 or 5 discs of corragated cardboard for wad, then shot cup w/ shot & 1 over shot card ( cereal box cardboard) can cut petals in shot cup if desired. Sounds complicated but isn't, just make up in small batches & will have them when you want them. Dave Canterbury has a video showing birdshot in rifle without the shot cup. shot never touches bore when using shot cup, pick one up down range & you will see how well they work : ) I am very fortunate to be able to experiment in my back yard.

[Col4570]

It was a recognised method of shooting small game whilst on a campaign by substituting a wad and Bird shot for the Bullet.I have broken Clays with a rifled weapon many times.

[indian joe]

It was a recognised method of shooting small game whilst on a campaign by substituting a wad and Bird shot for the Bullet.I have broken Clays with a rifled weapon many times.

Yeah it works ! keep the powder charge low is part of the trick I reckon - too much seems to blow the centre out of the pattern