Marlin 336 leading issues

[gustavez]

Hey guys, I've been lurking here for the past 5 years or so but haven't posted much. However i've come to an issue that my testing has not been able to resolve and i know someone here will be able to help.
I have a Marlin 336w microgroove in 30-30 win. i have been trying to get a light power lead load to work accurately and not lead the barrel. I have worked up load using 10.3 gr. Unique which my chronograph is saying is running at and just under 1500 fps. I am shooting powder coated wheel weight alloy bullets and have tried a couple lee bore riding ones as well as a new NOE ranch dog variant that casts bullets at 162 gr. I have them seated as far as i can so that the lever closes without having to squeeze it shut. I have also tried an alloy of my making that is harder than wheel weights by adding some super hard that i bought from rotometals to see if it is a hardness issue. I have slugged the bore and it comes out as far as i can tell at 309 or maybe 309.5 diameter. ive ran all bullets that ive tried through a 311 lee push through sizing die. Ok I think that sums up the details but feel free to ask any relevant questions. I am getting slivers of lead on my cleaning patches after shooting 15 rounds. I would prefer to not have to buy another mold since i've just recently bought the noe to solve my issue. Please help! Thanks in advance/

[gustavez]

Oh and I'm using powder coated bullets BTW. and they are plain base. I prefer to stay with non gas checked.

[MyFlatline]

Have you done a smash test on a PC'd bullet to see if the PC is holding up ? Sounds like you have everything else covered.

One other possibility would be shaving the coating off while seating the bullet..

Just thinking out loud ..

Good Luck.

[popper]

I use 170gr PB RD style in my marlin, PCd. I don't get leading when I Heat Treat the boolits. I size 311 but the bore is tight at the ends, loose in the middle. Unique loads won't expand the base in the 'loose' part of the bore so boolits need to be hard so it acts like jax. loads. Some brass gets ragged mouths if you don't flare good it will scrape the PC. Also what expander are you using on the cases. Jacketed expander doesn't work. IF ID is 307-308 it can size down the base of the boolit and scrape PC off.

[FergusonTO35]

Don't assume that Unique is the best powder for your rifle and boolits. I get much better results with slower powders in .30 WCF, even in lite loads.

[Edward]

Hey guys, I've been lurking here for the past 5 years or so but haven't posted much. However i've come to an issue that my testing has not been able to resolve and i know someone here will be able to help.
I have a Marlin 336w microgroove in 30-30 win. i have been trying to get a light power lead load to work accurately and not lead the barrel. I have worked up load using 10.3 gr. Unique which my chronograph is saying is running at and just under 1500 fps. I am shooting powder coated wheel weight alloy bullets and have tried a couple lee bore riding ones as well as a new NOE ranch dog variant that casts bullets at 162 gr. I have them seated as far as i can so that the lever closes without having to squeeze it shut. I have also tried an alloy of my making that is harder than wheel weights by adding some super hard that i bought from rotometals to see if it is a hardness issue. I have slugged the bore and it comes out as far as i can tell at 309 or maybe 309.5 diameter. ive ran all bullets that ive tried through a 311 lee push through sizing die. Ok I think that sums up the details but feel free to ask any relevant questions. I am getting slivers of lead on my cleaning patches after shooting 15 rounds. I would prefer to not have to buy another mold since i've just recently bought the noe to solve my issue. Please help! Thanks in advance/
Just lube your ranch dogs ,size to 310 /keep under 1500 fps with plain base and cast some BHN 12-13 hardness and you will solve your problem . I did all of what your doing and got the same result,do what I am doing now and leading is gone in my Marlin . How ever my 94 likes the same boolit sized (311) . Usual culprit is to fast /to hard or under sized took a fair amount of boolits to get that answer as I didn"t have some one to explain that /I just did for you/Ed Almost forgot maybe slug your barrel to verify actual bore size

[crankycalico]

ever try lubing the barrel itself with Johnson paste wax? discovered that trick when I had really bad leading with factory lead ammo in 38 special, went from literal hours of scrubbing to 15 minutes of clean up time.

Don't forget in the field manual for the springfield rifle written for ww1 by the war department, during the basic training it was recommended to grease the bullets only with cosmoline so as to reduce fouling and increase accuracy.

[popper]

Cosmoline - original alox. 2400 does work better than unique for higher fps PB as it's slower. Are you getting real slivers of lead or just small specks? I did find mine was more accurate at 9.5gr unique. After you clean the bore, wipe a few boolit noses with some mazzola oil.

[gustavez]

I'm using the Lyman M die for expansion, no lead shavings. Sounds like I should try a new powder or two, can I get some suggestions?

[popper]

Flare and don't crimp, just remove flare, try a few. 2400, 4227, 4895, 3031.

[WHITETAIL]

+1 with the IMR 3031.
I shoot the 172gr. SFN.
And try the JPW in the barrel,
or try dunking the boolits in JPW.
Put them in a jar with JPW and place
them on a heat source, get to a liquid,
then stand them on a wax paper over night.
I do this with most of all my boolits.:Fire:

[gustavez]

Ok well I will try the new powder suggestions and making sure to not crimp past straightening the case mouth. Thanks guys

[OverMax]

I do believe P/C'ing was intended for handgun use?
As I understand such coatings typically adds .002ths inch to a casts overall diameter. In this application .311 plus coating may be too tight a fit in your Marlin's microgroove bore.

As I understand. The coating itself has no lubricity what-so-ever. Just strength. However a barrel length of 20" and repeated firings & rotation may be too much for a P/C'ed cast to maintain its coating integrity at the speeds the OP commented.

You may get better results decreasing your cartridges velocity by 300 fps and likely gain better accuracy and non-lead streaking. However I do suggest when shooting for best grouping. Resting your rifle between shots helps accuracy.

[MyFlatline]

P/C was intended to replace lube. I works beautifully in rifles as well as pistols. I load for 10 different calibers and have yet to experience leading. Half of those have micro groove barrels.

[popper]

AR10 200 yds 165gr GC cast, 2400 fps, PCd. Yes it knocked the steel over.
232435

[woody1]

I think you're pushing the pressure limits using Unique. Especially for a pb boolit. IMO you need a slower powder, a gas check and/or a harder boolit. You say you're running thru a .311 die but what are they coming out at?

I know nothing about powder coating but I'd bet if you push a .311 sized boolit, lubed with BLL, felix lube, or even alox and jwax at about 1500 using 2400 or something slower, you'll prob'ly be OK.

I shoot a lot of pb boolits thru microgroove marlins but I don't push the pressure limits or anywhere close.

[uscra112]

One thing I learned long, long ago when I started out shooting cast bullets through my Dad's 336 in .35 Remington. Making the bullets harder doesn't solve a leading problem. Go softer, and try my magic cast bullet powder for middling loads . . . . Blue Dot.

Now here's another thing to think about: Is there any trace of copper in that bore? Switching from jacketed to lead without completely de-coppering the barrel is a guaranteed path to leading.

[gustavez]

I'm sizing them after powder coating any they come out at .311. I appreciate the responses so far and will be trying different powder first then go from there

[smkummer]

I am using 10 grns. unique and 311291 sized to .311 with a gas check and tumble lube in my pre-64 94. Works great. They chamber tight in my son’s post 64 so going to size .309 for that gun.

I think a gas check is going to be your friend in a micro groove 336 and then ditch the coating.

[RickinTN]

Lower your charge of unique to about 8.5 grains and I think you'll find it to work very well. If you want higher velocity then go to a slower powder, 2400 etc. 15 to 16 grains of IMR4227 works quite well.
Merry Christmas!
Rick