How did you make the jump to hunting iwth cast?

[crankycalico]

I know, most of us started out with a 22 and lead bullets for squirrel and other pests. That's not considered an issue anywhere as the typical 22long or long rifle creates muzzle energy, and 50 yard impact energy probably in the range of 70* the body weight of your typical red squirrel.

What im wondering is the thought processes you went through when you decided to switch to lead bullets from those nifty "efficient" expanding jacketed copper deer slayers in your rifle.

Its just that my monolithic rifle ammo and my fmj make my rifles feel very very enjoyable and "proven" and make them carrying them in the field very reassuring, but just sitting at the bench holding a dummy round of a 170 grain cast bullet in my .308 it makes me feel very naked.
Like the time I was tracking a deer and had 10 coyotes watching me from the shadows and all I had was flashlight and knife.

But yet 8x57 dummy round with a big 2-214 grain flat point just feels like im throwing baseball bats down range. Any explanation other then good advertising on the part of ammunition companies?

[Hardcast416taylor]

By not having money to buy loaded `J` ammo, but having a neighbor that did cast and showed me the ropes on doing it a long time ago.Robert

[waksupi]

The first deer I ever shot was with a .45 cal. Bedford County Pennsylvania rifle with a homemade patched round ball. Worked back then, still works now.

[Ateam]

Started casting for pistol so I could shoot more, seemed natural to cast for rifles too. Hunting was the next logical step. 45-70 was my first kill followed by 45acp and 357. I found very little use for cast in bottlenecked rifle cartridges, a jword or copper almost always does the job better (sacrilege, I know, flame on). Just my experience, ymmv.

[bmortell]

Making cast work in bottleneck is certainly harder, i spent a year or more messing off and on with 30-06 cast, made many loads that couldnt hit a paper plate till i hit a sweet spot where i could do near j-word accuracy. As opposed to revolvers where litteraly the first bullets i ever cast shot good groups at 25 yds.

As to the subject matter ive always been interested in loading from more of a science aspect. And casting deffinitly gives you alot more variables that you can play with and customise to your liking. Looking back the choices of jacketed bullets seems very un-interesting. ask any hunter you see around my area and they say " ah i got me some 150gr core-lokt's from walmart, been using em my whole life" where as i am no longer sold on the mythical power of the one size fits all walmart bullet. Now my head is filled with differnt mold designs and what i could do with them.

Plus i dont believe the trend of rifle ammo getting faster and faster over the years is actually helpfull unless your long range hunting and want less drop. It seems like all the extra speed of the jacketed bullet just limits what shots you can take without bloodshotting an entire quarter or blowing it apart. A much slower cast load can do sufficient damage to vitals and have just as much penetration as anything, and do so without blowing your eardrums out and bruising your shoulder.

[RU shooter]

That 170 gr cast 308 bullet will kill any deer around just as dead as that "massive" 8mm your comparing it too not really that much difference in killing effect with only a .015 bigger bullet .

How I made the leap to cast for hunting and not just targets , simple said to myself ok I'm gonna try this . Loaded some up in my 35 Rem accuracy was good enough speed to do the job went out and shot a deer . Says to myself while I'm gutting it yep cast bullets work .

[quilbilly]

Wasn't much of a jump for me. I have hunted with a muzzleloader for decades using either PRB and sabot with SWC pistol boolits from my own molds. That experience made it clear that high velocity is overrated for most hunting except at ranges over 250 yards. Just came naturally to see if I could get all my other center fires to do the same. The only rifle I have that doesn't like CB's is my old 6mm Rem. The real joy was discovering my 338 WM loves cast and is now fun plus economical to shoot.

[Camba]

I used to buy cast boolits to economize and do more shooting; mainly with pistols/revolvers and muzzle loaders.
I have killed deer with my revolver an ml but I expected that from seeing how they work on paper.
Then I joined this forum and ever since, I had converted most if not all of my firearms to shoot cast boolits.
I have yet to kill a deer with my rifle boolits but since I mostly hunt in a place where centerfire rifles, pistols, revolver, are not allowed, I am always dreaming that I will get the chance one day. In the meantime, I have bought rifles and tested multiple calibers to find the prefer load for hunting but had not been lucky yet.
Making my own boolits and getting accurate results is a great accomplishment but I do give a lot of credit to the experts in Cast Boolit forum (here) for all the help.
Camba


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[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Morning Cranky, hope you are having a good day!

I have cast for handguns for years, but it was maybe ten years back and already in my mid 60s that I began to think about what I could reasonably do in regard to shooting and hand loading that I had not already done at one time or another.

A bit earlier and looking for a good cast hunting bullet for my .44 mag handgun I became acquainted with the LBT (Lead Bullet Technology) Wide and Long Flat nose bullet profile. Then I began reading about peoples experiences with such bullets and even earlier recall the story about Larry Kelly of Magna Port fame taking his .44 mag to Alaska for a big bear hunt.

Well, the story goes that Larry and his guide were in a cabin at some point before the hunt started and a big critter with nasty temper broke into the cabin at which time Larry and the guide assumed a defensive posture along with laying a bunch of hot lead into the critter.

When it was all said and done and into the skinning part of the process, Larry found that all or most of the jacketed bullets fired from his handgun had NOT penetrated beyond or little the fat layer of the bear.

Larry went on to take a big critter with the .44 mag, the difference was that he was using some type of cast bullet instead of the soft and fragile jacketed bullets.

Well, anyway, I read lots of glowing reports on the effectiveness of cast Wide Flat Nose bullets so decided that hunting with my own cast bullets fired from a rifle seemed a reasonable step into an area I had not entered. The 45/70 seemed like a no brainer for a good cast bullet rifle, and I knew where a really nice RUGER #1 had been sitting on a pawn shop rack for an extended period of time.

It still took a measure of faith to take the cast bullets hunting in the 45/70 the first time, but it only took one critter down to make a believer out of me.

I did find that you DON'T need warp velocities and 400gr or more is better then lighter slugs.

That first critter with a 355gr WFN cast at 2300 muzzle was HUGE OVER KILL and left me wondering just what I'd turned loose on the game population.

A 465gr WFN at 1650fps has proved HIGHLY effective on deer and Elk!

Last fall 2017 I took two deer with a 280gr WFN fired from a RUGER 77/44 rifle at a muzzle velocity of 1750fps.. Both dead where they stood and complete pass through.

So, that is how I tool the leap.

Wish I'd done it years before!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[pworley1]

No jump for me. I started out with cast back in the 60's and have not found a reason to change.

[Rcmaveric]

I have always like guns. I care a gun sometimes for work. I had always wanted to hunt. So when i was stationed in California. I bought my fist riffle. Well California bannes lead ammo and my earnest paychecks i couldn't afford ammo. So i got into reloading. Brought the price of ammo to a point i could afford to practice.

While crunching numbers I was looking at what my main expendures were. Brass was free so i was buying powder, primers and bullets. Bullets were the most expensive part and i was curious if i could make those. So i google it and found out i could.

I found a way to cast for everything I reload. I have no plans of ever shooting jacketed again.

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[Smoke4320]

Started looking at ways to shoot more and cost less.. discovered that powdercoating eliminated all the issues I had with cast bullets.. so acasting I went
its was a short trail down to getting my first cast kill.
Only gun I still shoot jacketed in now is a 6.5 Grendel as its my long distance accuracy gun

[bosterr]

I switched to handgun hunting back in 2000 when I put a nice ten point whitetail on the wall with a 10 inch scoped Contender in 357 Max. and 158 gr. XTP. I've taken deer every year since then with Encore and Contender pistols and jacketed bullets. The last 5 years my gun of choice has been a 7 1/2 inch scoped BFR in 475 Linebaugh. I shoot an Accurate 377395BG (gas check) with a good dose of H110. I've taken 6 deer with it so far, the farthest was 113 yds. I've yet to get a bang-flop so many have written about, except one that I spined. The rest only go 40/50 yds. I also took a doe with my Great Grand dad's 121 year old Winchester 94 32-40 with an Accurate Molds 323180C at 85 yds. Again, it went 40 yds. which seems to be the norm for me. A hole in and out on all of them pose no problem finding them.

[Texas by God]

I started casting boots in 1980 in .38 special for informal target and small game and .45 ACP for combat competition and bowling pins. I bought a Lee .309150f for my 30-30 and discovered it was the perfect Turkey hunting round. After joining this forum, I'm casting for all my rifles that shoot cast well. Certain ones(ARs and long range ) still get j-words only. As I've gotten older, fatter, and reflective I've decided that it's more fun to get a deer with a bullet I made myself at close range than picking them off at 3-400 yards with a 25-06. Next time I hunt(maybe today) I'll carry my 38-55 or 44-40 with home made boolits to the creek.

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[GhostHawk]

I was a .22lr and shotgun guy for decades.

Got into rifles late in life, was on a severe budget. Found a nice pair of Mosin's for 150$ each, then started looking at ammo. Soft point boxer primed ammo was not cheap.

Jacketed bullets were not cheap. But I had the basic tools to cast. A Lee Mold and a bag of gas checks, and a Lee sizer were not so bad. The advantage was that if I spent the same money on Jword bullets, when they were gone, i was done.

But with casting, you can continue to cast, and cast. Just need lead and time.

I started out with a pretty good stash of COWW and some pure. By the time that was getting low I had bought more.

I never looked back. Almost all my shooting is at paper targets, they don't care what they get hit with.

Now I have a hole stable of rifles, many of them single shots.
They all shoot cast.

I have a small stash of .224 jacketed for my .223rem, but even it is shooting cast.

Once you catch the bug your hooked for life

[daloper]

After many years I finally connected with my uncle and he casts. As he doesn't have any kids local and none of them ever showed an interest in casting or shooting , he passed it down to me and my brother. We cast to keep him in ammo for his 45 ACP. I purchased his .357 from him and he had all the stuff needed to cast for it. I already had a Ruger 480 and the cost to shoot that was more than I could do even with the reloading. Casting lets me shoot more so I don't save any money but I tell the wife I am.

[atr]

I started reloading back in the 60's when I was in high school. Got into casting to feed my .38 spl and .380 auto. From there I gradually got into casting for rifles; .303Brit and 30-06, 30-30. Decided to use cast for hunting when I moved to WA and was hunting in areas where the game was within range for lead cast. I didn't figure there was any need to have jacketed moving at 2800 fps if the game was within 150 yds and a lead slug at 2000 fps would do the job.

[toallmy]

I have not yet used my own cast boolits to take game but in the past I have used store bought Speer 44 caliber boolits on deer , store bought 50 caliber , as well as slugs . So I don't see a reason why not to .
I started casting planing on casting for a 50 caliber inline . Well to keep it simple wile I figured out how to cast I decided to try my handguns first because I was pretty comfortable shooting lead out of them now I'm moving over into casting for my rifles , it seams a natural progression . By the way I haven't shot my own cast in the inline yet .....

[FredBuddy]

In my retirement, I needed a challenge for my brain.

I found this site, and marlinowners.com. Between
the two, I saw how with minimal expense, I could
start casting my own. I have no fancy equipment,
just ladle pour into 1 and 2 cavity moulds I have
picked up along the way.

The daily challenges, the chase for solutions keep
me out of the bars !!!

The products from LEE and NOE are my friends
as well as the 2 websites I mentioned.

CAST ON !!!

[owejia]

Started out with 22's and shotgun. Could only deer hunt in my county with slugs. Then allowed cf pistols, 44 mag Ruger, cast hard leadbullets,shot at five deer and killed four. Muzzle loader also uses lead. Traded for my first cf rifle in the late 70's, used store bought ammo until I started to reload. Cast rb for a cap and ball revolver back in the 70's. Been using lead for a long time, so was really no big transition. That cf rifle is a 7mm mag and have only shot it less than 200 times as long as I've owned it. We used buckshot and slugs when I lived in Va for deer also.

[redhawk0]

I've been casting and shooting for years. Just three years ago I purchased a 45-70 and decided to hunt with it. I've never run a Jword bullet down it's bore since I got it. I've taken two buck with it in back to back seasons in NH. I'm hooked.

redhawk

[popper]

When WWWB 40SW was >40$/100 @ WW. Now it's 6$/100.

[brewer12345]

I wanted to cast for rifles in part because I already cast for handguns and shoot 38/357 and 44 mag in lever actions. Not a huge leap to do the same in bottleneck cartridges. I especially wanted to develop a good deer load for 30-06. I don't take real long distance shots. I could, given the relatively open country I usually hunt, but it isn't my conception of hunting. At 100 yards I think typical jacketed 30-06 loads are unnecessarily destructive for deer and I am first and foremost a meat hunter. 200 grains of lead doing 1900 FPS out of the muzzle is plenty to anchor deer and not do a ton of damage/meat loss.

[Blanket]

My father started me casting in the 60's

[ole_270]

I started casting in the 70s with a lee swc mold for a Ruger 3 screw 357. Man I wish I had that 357 back.
When the family heirloom Marlin 94 25-20 came my way the cost and scarcity of ammo pretty much dictated casting for it. A Lyman 257420gc mold kept me in ammo for years. I bought a Win 94 Ranger 30-30 in the early 90s that didn't much care for anything I could find for it. I bought a 31141 mold to try in it. Didn't do a whole lot better than the j word, but was much cheaper so I stayed with it. For the most part I was pushing them just over 1900 fps, so I tried them on deer. Worked great, it was about all I used for several years on deer. Finally got tired of the 25lb trigger pull on the winny so it went down the road. These days I'm casting for a Marlin 336 rebored by JES to 38-55. The trigger is MUCH better, and it does a number on the woods range whitetails I hunt with it.

[irishtoo]

i was casting for muzzleloaders for apox 15 years. i had all the equipment,lead, and blackpowder. i did some research and decided a .45-70 was not a big jump. at the time factory .45-70s were $2.50 a pop. doing the math, i could reload for apox 15cents each!! i bought some lee reloading equipment, mold and a couple of books and never looked back. that investment has paid for itself many times over and i am not at the mercy of storages and retailers. irishtoo

[sharps4590]

Wasn't much of a jump, if any, for me. As others have mentioned I started casting RB's for my muzzleloaders. Also as with others, that evolved to casting for my revolvers. When I got into BPC rifles it was pretty much a given cast bullet would be used and when I saw how immensely effective they were on game the next step was using cast for hunting out of my smokeless rifles. That was about 25 years ago and I haven't taken a head of game with a jacketed bullet since. It is my experience and considered opinion that jacketed bullets don't kill one bit better than a good cast bullet. I do have a couple rifles that if I ever get the chance to blood them unfortunately it will be with a jacketed bullet due to the condition of their bore or, as with a drilling I have, the rifle barrel was made about 4 inches shorter than the shotgun barrels. It shoots cast accurately but it also literally lead plates the bottoms of the shotgun barrels. One time of cleaning that off was enough. Other than those few rifles I never shoot jacketed.

I believe it was that little known gun writer, Elmer Keith, that pretty much proved a good cast bullet will out penetrate the best, expanding jacketed bullet. I believe he did that some 80 years ago.

[richhodg66]

My Dad was the most avid shooter and caster I know. So I grew up being taught that cast was how it's done. dad wasn't a hunter, but in some circles was a target shooting force to be rekoned with. As such, he tended to cast things hard, and didn't care about nose profile or terminal performance.

I started casting when I was a young man to supplement my reloading addiction, it's always seemed crazy to me to buy jacketed bullets for pistols so that started it. Began casting for milsurps a few years later. When I giot serious about deer hunting, the Kansas muzzle loader season worked better for my work schedule and casting just seemed the right thing to do so that started deer hunting with cast.

I read all the articles in the old Lyman cast manual I had including the ones on casting for hunting. Always wanted to and in 2010, I got serious and killed one with an Ideal 31141 in a Savage 340 in .30-30. Worked like a champ, and I haven't used a jacketed bullet since and I average two deer a year.

For .30s, it isn't difficult. A .35 or bigger is a no-brainer. Did it this year with a 7mm and that's probably as small as I'll go on deer with cat but who knows? Pretty sure I could do it with a 6.5 and I have some good molds for that.

[William Yanda]

As a resident of Western NY, for years I was limited to shotgun, slug only for Big Game Season. Then Muzzleloaders were an option. Only more recently have rifles been an option. That being said, someone here has a comment about a lead boolit being adequate for a whole lot of killing. There wasn't a whole lot of thinking involved. The idea of making my own projectiles was a natural extension of "rolling my own".
Season's Greetings
Bill

[DougGuy]

It was easy to switch from j to cast, just load cast instead of j words at the press and you'll be there!

[ShooterAZ]

For me, there really wasn't much of a "jump" either. Long before I started doing my own casting, I used store bought cast bullets for hunting. Primarily in handguns, but after I started pouring my own I moved over to cast in rifles as well. I still use jacketed for certain applications though.

[Harter66]

I wanted cast to shoot.my 06' a lot at half range half size targets . NV has a 1000#@100yd rule for big game and my best loads came up just shy , like 25 ftlb at 4000 ft , at 8000 though ........ On a hunt an opportunity for a no brainier chip shot at about 75 yd kicked in the door and dragged me kicking and screaming to a tree rest 10ft from the truck door . Same damage as a Hornady 3033 (now discontinued) only just little blood shot . Pretty much made my mind up for critters under 250# inside 100 yd . We have killed a half dozen hogs since then with go fast rocket sleds and fat slow sledgehammers .

[dverna]

You mentioned the .308 and cast. For most cast bullet loads it is a jump backwards using cast. In effect, it winds up being a .30/30 when loaded with cast bullets....for MOST. Some can push cast bullets that will expand faster than 2200 fps with accuracy, but it is not easy.

For the bulk of hunting, 2200 fps bullets with large meplats will work. If you need energy and accuracy beyond 250 yards, stay with jacketed bullets.

If you enjoy the challenge, start working with cast in your .308 and understand the limitations. Look at the cost of mould(s), gas checks, 250 rounds worth of powder and primers to find a load and alloy that will likely not be as accurate as jacketed bullets. And you get a load with 150 yards less effective range. But as I said, nothing wrong with .30/30 performance if that is all you want or need.

If you want to save money, buy 200 jacketed bullets to hunt with. You will have a good load worked up after shooting 50 rounds. The other 150 bullets will last a long time....3 shots to check POI every year, another 6 to adjust POI if needed, and 6 to hunt with. 10 years of hunting for about $65. BTW, I use a .308 to hunt with and have shot 14 jacketed rounds in the last three years....12 to check POI and one on each of two deer. Both deer were shot at 125-135 yards....cast would have worked but I also can get shots over 300 yards. So I use jacketed bullets...and save money to boot.

Many will argue they want to do a lot of practice with their centerfire and need cast bullets to keep costs down. That is a valid reason to use cast. But they will not equal a jacketed bullet for hunting in a . 308.

[richhodg66]

The area and methods I hunt deer with, a 250 yard shot won't happen unless you set yourself up for it. I'll get in the woods, figure out where they're moving and then arrange to be close to them when they show up either in a tree stand or some kind of ground blind. I don't just set up on a food plot and watch them from across a field.

I'd hunt this way whether I used a recurve bow or a .264 Win Mag. It's called hunting, not long range target shooting.

Cast bullets work great. Full house jacketed loads in my .30-06 didn't put them down any faster than the cast loads I've used the past nine years or so.

[wmitty]

Bought a M 70 in .375 H&H at nineteen and showed it to the old gunsmith whose shop I hung around. He looked at me and said, "You will never learn to shoot that unless you cast bullets and reload for it". Long story shortened: he was right.

[Tom W.]

Well........ I've only killed one deer with a cast boolit, a 245 gr from my .44 SBH. My youngest son took temporary possession of my 30/30 and killed many deer with loads that I had cast and we loaded together, an my friend who sadly passed away some years back also killed a pile of deer with cast loads I made for him.
I have been casting for I dunno how many years, but it's more than 43, and most of my boolits are for pistol and revolver cases. I've had some handguns that have never fired a jacketed factory load, most never fired any factory loads.
Now that I have retrieved my 30/30 and had it rechambered to 30/30 A.I. I'm doing a lot of fire forming. The same for my 30-06 A.I. it's taken me many years, but I almost have all of the '06 a.i. brass formed. I don't have near as much 30/30 brass to form, but I don't get out to shoot much since I moved to Phenix City. That and my colon cancer has slowed me down a bit.
Maybe someday........

[RugerFan]

I was living in GA at the time. My primary deer and hog killer was a bolt .308 Win. To be honest, it just became too easy to make the kill shot with my jacketed reloads. Satisfaction factor was waning a bit. I had been casting for pistol and muzzleloader for many years already and decided it was time to make the jump to high powered rifle.

Needless to say this forum was paramount in excelling my knowledge and giving me the confidence to proceed. My main concern was leading, so I cast some Lyman 311291 pretty hard and heat treated them. Probably unnecessary hardness, but they turned out plenty accurate and killed game just fine. My addiction to cast got significantly worse from there.

[crankycalico]

my main reason for looking at cast for my rifles was well, using jacketed soft points is too expensive, .80 cents a pop minimum. Using FMJ is cheaper, but those things BOUNCE very easily.

Ive always been fascinated by the old guard load for the 30-06 and wanted to figure out a good version for my .308 but MOST of the data I was looking at was well, sketchy at best and at worst a quarunteed stuck bullet. SO ive got my gear and factory cast that are common for hunting so had to think about it.

Sadly its really hard to find data for 30-30 jsp to get them to a 30wcf velocity/energy from a .308.

I have a lot of bad experience using monolithic in .243 and .223 so the use of a non expanding cast bullet is not that much of a difference because in most instances, the monolithic solid copper bullets seem to have acted like 3,000 fps drill bits.

[richhodg66]

"I have a lot of bad experience using monolithic in .243 and .223 so the use of a non expanding cast bullet is not that much of a difference because in most instances, the monolithic solid copper bullets seem to have acted like 3,000 fps drill bits. "

Where are you getting this idea that cast bullets don't expand? Have you been reading the forum?

"Sadly its really hard to find data for 30-30 jsp to get them to a 30wcf velocity/energy from a .308."

A quick check of the basic Hornady manual from the '80s I keep here on the desk shows load data in the .308 for 165 grain bullets at 2300 FPS, lots of it. That's pretty close to the standard .30-30 load of a 170 grain bullet at 2200. "Really hard to find"? Makes me wonder where you're looking, this was just one source I keep handy, if I went out to the barn and looked through my other manuals, I'm certain I'd find a lot more.

[richhodg66]

Cast bullets expand like all get out if you know what you're doing. Picture is a 7mm bullet of mine I recovered after going through about three feet of deer this past October. If anything, it expanded too much. This idea that cast bullets only poke pencil holes through things is ignorant.

232319

Do some reading, particularly through the hunting forum this time of year, cast bullets can be amazing projectiles in terms of terminal performance, but if all you know is to cast them from straight linotype and you don't consider nose profile, yeah, it's not gonna work.

[richhodg66]

I was living in GA at the time. My primary deer and hog killer was a bolt .308 Win. To be honest, it just became too easy to make the kill shot with my jacketed reloads. Satisfaction factor was waning a bit. I had been casting for pistol and muzzleloader for many years already and decided it was time to make the jump to high powered rifle.

Needless to say this forum was paramount in excelling my knowledge and giving me the confidence to proceed. My main concern was leading, so I cast some Lyman 311291 pretty hard and heat treated them. Probably unnecessary hardness, but they turned out plenty accurate and killed game just fine. My addiction to cast got significantly worse from there.

Yep. I almost never shoot jacketed in anything, but not long ago, bought a heavy .308 I plan to use as a strictly cast load experimentation bench rifle. I don't want to start another discussion on barrel break in, but I wanted to shoot 100 or so jacketed though it since the barrel is brand new, so I've been loading and shooting some jacketed .30s I had around.

Any idiot can load accurate ammo when some one else is making the bullets, absolutely nothing to it. Might as well just be the guy who runs to Wal Mart to buy a box of factory ammo when deer season rolls around at that point.

[richhodg66]

This is geared towards the .30-06, but if you're looking for guidance on gallery loads, it's a good article to read.

http://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/articles/american3006.htm

[sharps4590]

If you need energy and accuracy beyond 250 yards, stay with jacketed bullets.

If you're referring to just the 308 or anything 30 cal. or smaller, I'll concede that point. I don't have a 308, have never had a 308 nor do I have any desires to ever have a 308. Consequently one could call me completely ignorant of the cartridge's performance with either cast or jacketed and be correct.

However, if you're implying that for all cartridges shooting cast bullets, I call that horse manure. Especially once one goes above about 33-35 cal.

[Harter66]

We're in luck .
I've shot cast in X39 , 30-30 , 308 , and 06' .
1700 with a 200 gr really soft cast spire point is a no brainier in x39. A little paper patch work and I halfed the groups of store bought ammo . PP was the only answer with a 305×316 barrel .

30-30 nothing hard here either . Plain Base bullet or gas check of 165-180 gr start load of I4350 for jacketed and your at or above jacketed max load speeds so it really becomes just the challenge of finding the alloy that will do what you want to do on the business end .

308 ....... Good loads no problem . Good speeds no problem . Full case to get the first 2 together more of a challenge but H4831 helped . This rifle short of a WC will not shoot a bullet over 175 gr . Period . Not even an RN jacketed shorter than a 150 jacketed . 165-172 gr naked or papered and 22-2500 is easy but shape and alloy are paramount to a game load . When the load window is open it's easy to slop into sub 2 moa loads even at the higher speeds the catch is that you need 35-40 kpsi for 14 of first18" of the 22" barrel to get that .

06' is hard because of all that case , Shoot 175+ , fat slow powder , checks , the hard side of ACWW maybe with some copper and it's doable . Get a rifle that's on the fast side of 1-10 instead of the slow side and super heavyweights 225+ become viable and are , once in the window , fairly easy to get to 1900-2050 fps and carry plenty of energy conversion well past 150 yd . Maybe not for elk above the tree line or meadow moose but the rest of the deer clan is in a lot of trouble .

If you want to duplicate jacketed ammo it's not going to happen ......ok it will but you have to pick and choose what you want and as long as what you want is a freight liner sledgehammer and not a rocket sled 500 yd coyote mister then it's possible .

[crankycalico]

That is pretty good information, makes me wonder how a good small game load with my 170 grain bullet would do with 5 grains red dot, when lyman says my minimum charge weight is 9.5-10.0 grains.

I know, I may just turn the .308 into a good 200 yard target rifle and a 120 yard hunting rifle by switching to cast bullets, but funny thing is, its got to have more power then a 410 shotgun, and lots of folks send their kids into the woods and no one minds.

[rking22]

wasn't much jump for me either. First deer was a 243 one shot and drop at 225 yards. 2nd was a 45prb ,self cast, on 60gr of fff from a Seneca at 20 yards! The second was SO much more rewarding that I pretty much hunted ML season every year and had my deer. So never really went out with a cartridge gun for many seasons. When I did I hunted just like archery or ML and my shots were close, real close. I had been shooting cast since hi school in pistols and plinking loads in 3030. All along I knew I wanted to hunt with cast in rifles too. Started with 4570, 45 colt, then felt comfortable enough to use a 31141 in my 30remington M141. Always thought a 3855 would be ideal, found a 375 bb94 recently and confirmed it! 35remington is also perfection. Now, I have a lifetime supply of jacketed bullets, but only shoot them in 22 center fires. Since mid nineties, if I did not consider it to be a good cast shooter I left it in the shop. My rifle calibers jump from 222rem to 30 caliber, with one stray 256win TC carbine in there. They just work, but need a bit of knowledge vs the jacketed variety, I like that and works for me.

[500Linebaughbuck]

i guess its been about 10 years now, i bought a 165gr ranch dog for my 30-40 krag and i went from there. now its rare that i buy one, i'd rather cast my own. the last that i used a j-word to kill deer was a 150gr nosler bt in my 270 and that has to be 6 or 7 years ago.

velocity isn't an issue either or rather the way i cast mine. i use coww and a splash of tin for my 30-40 krag, 44 spl, 444 marlin, 45-70 and 500 linebaugh. they'll go at 1900fps(30-40) and down to 850fps(44spl). whether they are wfn, lfn and fn, they kill the same way. my 444 marlin(tc encore/24" MGM barrel) did do a drop right there many times. the only one that didn't was a doe at 75+/-yards away. the doe took a 300gr fn gc thru the lungs and the doe ran about 30+/-yards. a 44spl with a 255gr keith and skeeter load , i have to track them even tho the deer only goes 50+/- yards.. i used a 275gr ranch dog and a 280gr lfn gc that go about 1800fps and they are drop'em right there. i use a 45-70 and 405gr fn that go about 1300fps and i will drop them or they will go about 30-40 yards before they die. the 30-40 krag is a drop'em too. i have killed deer out to 180+/- yards and every deer has dropped right there. i'm waiting for the deer doesn't, i know it will happen. the 500L has not been shot at deer, yet!!!

[Rick R]

I bought a .45-70 Guide Gun and it liked 350gr Hornady soft points. Have you priced those? Have you tried to find them in stock? Bought a Lee pot, 400gr RN Lee mold and a used Lyman 450.
Since then my preferred .45-70 boolit has moved to an NOE/RD 360gr WFN and I’ve added a bunch more molds in different calibers.
I took three deer this year with boolits that I cast myself and they just seem to taste better. :cool:

[dverna]

If you're referring to just the 308 or anything 30 cal. or smaller, I'll concede that point. I don't have a 308, have never had a 308 nor do I have any desires to ever have a 308. Consequently one could call me completely ignorant of the cartridge's performance with either cast or jacketed and be correct.

However, if you're implying that for all cartridges shooting cast bullets, I call that horse manure. Especially once one goes above about 33-35 cal.

Yes, I was discussing the .308 as that is what the OP inquired about. The .308 loses too much of its potential with most cast bullets. As I said, you can turn it into a .30/30....and nothing wrong with that for deer under 250 yards.

BTW I have two .30/30’s so it if that was I needed, I would not have acquired the .308. I did some cast bullet shooting in the Marlin but could not get better than 4 MOA at factory velocity. I guess I am not a very good bullet caster....at least with rifle bullets. The strange thing is I can get that accuracy with .38’s out of my 1894....must be the lower velocities are more forgiving.

[sharps4590]

Casting bullets is like a lot of things in life, it's a journey, not a destination. I've had some humdingers that were really good to excellent right out of the gate.....and some humdingers that were equally bad....right out of the gate.

[Camba]

Sound like this is going to make it to the stickies soon.
Just a thought.
Camba


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[Rcmaveric]

Casting bullets is like a lot of things in life, it's a journey, not a destination.

Agreed. Read, research and learn while expanding knowledge base and understanding. Solve one problem with a gun and load and it is off to the next problem. Find out what it takes to get the gun to shoot cast accurately. Then figure out what needs to happen to make it shoot the way i want.

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[Brett Ross]

Started casting when I picked shooting back up after a bit of time away, to be able to shoot more. I later became interested in older bolt action military rifles and found shooting them with cast was a way to make them more affordable and enjoyable to shoot. Here in Iowa, deer hunting was a shotgun only affair, later they opened a rifle antler-less only season for the lower 2 counties of the state. Now at this point I had not deer hunted for years as it held no real excitement for me anymore but the challenge of harvesting a deer with my own cast bullet was intriguing. I developed a load for my M95/34 Stier using a BruceB soft tip boolit and took a nice sized deer with a 60 yard shot, I was hooked. The next year, Iowa in its infinite wisdom eliminated this season so back to shotgun only,,,, I’m out. Forward a few years and Iowa included straight walled pistol caliber rifles as legal during shotgun season, I’m back in. This year I purchased a CVA Hunter in 45/70, developed a load, cast a few boolits and shot a little doe, on the last day this season, hooked all over again. For me hunting with my own round cast and developed by me, makes it interesting.

[sledgehammer001]

30 years ago, I bought my first Ruger Blackhawk in .41 Magnum. After recovering from sticker shock on the ammo, a friend of mine got me started reloading with a used Lee Loader. Then he suggested I try cast to save even more. After scrubbing lead from my barrel from over 500 rounds sent, I started researching why. Next step was casting for custom fit.
Then Clinton was elected and started in on guns. I figured ammo and components were on his hit-list, so started working on a cast load for my 30/06. During my many, many hours of research, I started a long relationship through the mail with a gentleman here in southern Az, name of Bill Ferguson. He taught me most of what I know about casting bullets. He has since passed on.
After much trial and error, I settled on a 220gr GC RN load for my 30/06. Then I found 'castboolits'. After reading a lot on here, I gave cast a try for hunting. Cast has proven deadly on javelina, coyotes, bobcat, from a 30-30, 308, and 30/06. They're great on small stuff through my 222 Rem, my AR 5.56. They do a good job through my .58 muzzleloader also.
So, why NOT hunt with them? After all, we all but wiped out the American Bison with cast bullets!
Just my 2¢

[crankycalico]

It CAN be hard to equate 170 grains @ 1540fps when its a non expanding solid, when the latest and greatest long rand deer killers are still doing more then that at 400 yards.

And compared to .223 and even .243 it does feel more comforting.

[Murphy]

It was back about 1980-81. I was beginning to shoot a lot of handgun back then. And, the boolits I wanted I couldn't find for sale commercially (no internet back then).

Thus, thanks to Skeeter Skelton and Elmer Keith, I began casting for my .357 & .44 magnums. Later, I started shooting even more. I couldn't see much sense in shooting jacketed over cast when I was getting what I wanted from cast. They've been getting the job done since then.

Murphy

[Tim357]

I never have hunted with anything other than a cast lead projectile. My dad got me started way back when with a .30/30 and a Lyman 31141 and 4895 powder. I graduated to a Springfield 03 after 1970. .30/30 ended up having a ringed chamber, so I saved my summer money and got a Springfield. Once again, cast only. I Saved some money and got a Lee 150 FN. Sold them 20 years back. Don't hunt much these days.

[crankycalico]

I made a few quick rounds up this morning and used them. I was afraid id be hitting dirt at 100 yards so I used them at a nominal 30 yards. Group center was only about 3 inches below my 100 yard hunting zero, so not to bad considering.

I have faith in that bullet at that velocity. Went through my first layer of bullet stopping that can stop ppu m80 at 100 yard. Found one and pulled it with pliers and it turned into a rather nice full wadcutter. No sign of flame damage even though I had the gas check inside the case.

I did enjoy the muzzle report was very close to using 22lr "subsonic" hollow points from Remington. soft crack, not sharp and harsh. Wouldn't want to shoot it all day, but a quick case of "quick get your gun theirs a wood chuck in the garden" is fine.

[Hickok]

Had a good shot on a doe with .44 Mag using early-vintage 240 gr Hornady Hollow-points. After several hours tracking in the snow, and two more hits with Hornady bullets, I finally put the doe down. The bullets penetrated only inches, and flattened out like quarters.

Never again. Went to Keith 250 gr cast boolits, and shot clear through deer, they run a short 30 -50 yards and down. Elmer was right.

[sharps4590]

Elmer usually was.

[BrutalAB]

I am probably an odd case but I started hunting as a way to have a practical application for my shooting and reloading hobby. And I took every deer after my first one with boolits I casted and loaded for further application and pride of said hobbies. I take great pride in my work and like to know what I can accomplish on my own and the more involved I am, the more accomplished I feel.

[Winger Ed.]

I got into casting as a way to shoot more, and keep the wear & tear off handguns.
Casting/reloading, I could shoot .38 & .45s for about the price of high end .22LR.
Same for .308/.30-06, no worries about burning out a barrel, and I never shot farther than 100 yards or so.
The .30 cal. stuff was going along about like a factory .30-30, which is fine for small deer inside 150 yards.
The rifles being sighted in, and having confidence with their performance, I took .30cal cast rounds hunting too.

Then, when the .45-70 came along, I couldn't get approved for the loan to buy a box of ammo for it.
So, it's never fired anything but cast, and has made a couple hunting trips too.

[bikerbeans]

I am still mid leap on the jump to cast. I have a fully rifled 410 levergun i built that is strickly a cast boolit shooter. I am currently working up a cast boolit hunting load for my 444 marlins. The RARR bushmaster 450 will be next to switch.

My main motivation is the challenge of developing an accurate cast load.

BB