hardness for hunting bullet - quenched range lead?

[weeple2000]

I have a Lee C309-200-R.

I have a source of free range lead. I also bought 40 lbs of linotype. I would like to figure out if I can get away with casting hunting boolits without using the linotype. I did buy some gas checks from Sage's. I believe he is a member here. They are .30 / 7.62 mm .015 Caliber Copper Gas Checks.

I cast a sample of boolits, I have maybe 30-50 of them. I took about 15 of them and baked them for about 20 minutes. For part of that time, the oven was preheating. I did water quench them. I did not PC or size them. My thought is to perform a little experiment first.

I tested the boolits using Staedtler Mars Lumograph Hard Lead Drafting Art Pencils. I tested them shortly after quenching. They weren't any different from the boolits that I did not quench. I did try to test them again, after approximately 21 hours it scratched with a B pencil, about 13 BHN. I think that initially it was probably closer to BHN 10. I could check my control group to confirm that.

I am curious where the next few days or couple weeks will bring me with respect to BHN. What is the likelihood that I'll get a good hardness for deer in a 30 06? I found a thread here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

The GC load looks like what I'd be after. For reference:

""Deer and Long Range Target Load"

Mattern's "deer and 600 yard target load" can be assembled in cases of 30-40 Krag capacity or larger up to 30-06 using 18-21 grains of #2400 or 4227, 22-25 grains of 4198, 25-28 grains of RL-7 or 27-30 grains of 4895, which give from 1700-1800 f.p.s., depending on the case size. "

I have some 4895 on hand.

I picked up the Lee .311 sizing die. I had a hell of a time trying to read a 45 ACP boolit that I slugged. I was trying to guess what sizing die to pick up. Well, I bought the .452 die. I did measure a boolit I sized with that die, and it was .001 over the one I drove through the bore. So I think that worked perfect.

I had a mishap slugging my rifle. I am not sure if I am going to do it again. If I did, I might try to PC a fishing sinker, send it through the sizer, and then send it through the rifle. But I suspect that .311 is probably pretty good. The rifle is a Ruger American Rifle 30 06.

This is what I came up with to start. I figured this would be a good place to solicit feedback.

[414gates]

I found my wheelweight bullets increased in hardness from 12 BHN on the day, to 16 BHN after a week or so.

These were clip on weights only, I seperate the stick-ons in case they are softer.

All you need to know about lead bullet hardness and pressure is at http://www.lasc.us/castbulletnotes.htm

[Orchard6]

It sounds like you’re on the right track. A lot of guys use 50/50 clip on wheel weights/ to pure or “soft lead” as a hunting alloy with a hardness around 9-10 bhn. You should get some expansion and since you’re using a gas check I’d think leading should be minimal.

[centershot]

weeple 2000, I would not hesitate to shoot those boolits just as they drop from the mould, once they're lubricated of course! If you feel you want them a little harder (tougher, actually) water drop them from the mold and lube them in a die that is .001" larger than the as-cast diameter. The thing you must be wary of is that you have no control over the alloy content of range lead. For general purposes it makes good boolits. For repeatable results you'll want to control the content of your alloy. For my uses, I mix one part linotype (84-12-4) with three parts pure lead. That yields an alloy of 96-3-1, that is wheelweight composition for all intents and purposes. I add 2% tin by weight to that which yields 94-3-3. THAT is a beautiful alloy to work with! The antimony & tin are equal and that gives an added measure of toughness (not hardness) to the alloy. You can learn much more about this at the link to LASC posted by 414gatrs above.

[kungfustyle]

Just a hint. Re-mix all your range scrap alloy into one batch so that its uniform. Then you can add x number to your pot and maybe one Linotype ingot, for tin fill out, so you get repeatable results. It doesn't mater what was in a handful of range scraps had in it. It works great and you don't have to reinvent the wheel every casting session.

[weeple2000]

Unfortunately I am not setup for homogenizing 150 lbs of range lead I have on hand. What I did was cast it into ingots from a Coleman stove. I could probably cast 10-13 cornbread ingots from my skillet at a time. I did use the pencils to check hardness on the ingots. Most were 10 but a few 9 and 11 I believe. When I mixed them in my casting pot, I would either try to add 2 10s or a 9 and an 11. Given all that work though, I think I might just randomly test the ingots from my next batch rather than the whole batch.

[weeple2000]

Just adding a few bread crumbs in case anyone tries searching for bullets quenched out of a toaster oven. Tonight we're about 48 hours after quenching, and the boolit hardened from 10 initially to 16-18 now, as it is scratching with an F pencil.

[Wolfer]

In my 30-06 I use the 311041 with a small HP. 20 gr of 2400 gets me 1800 fps with very good accuracy. I use bhn 10 in everything.

I have taken a goodly number of deer and coyotes with this load. It was the first load I worked up and never saw a reason to change it.
Terminal performance has always been superb.
Granted where I hunt 100 yds is a very long shot with 30/40 yds being common. If I hunted more open country I would slow down the powder and up the velocity a little.

[weeple2000]

I was curious about 2400 and I crunched the numbers on that. Not only is the powder a lot cheaper, but you're using less of it. I am going to pick up a lb of it and try that one out. I was thinking that once I sorted the load out it might be nice to load up 500-1000 bullets to keep on hand.

100 yards is probably the limit of what I would be shooting too. I hunt very far north in WI. The deer up there aren't very big. They have a lot of predators up there.

I am not quite 3 full days after I initially quenched those bullets. Now they aren't scratching until I use the 2H pencil, which is allegedly BHN 26-28.

[weeple2000]

In my 30-06 I use the 311041 with a small HP. 20 gr of 2400 gets me 1800 fps with very good accuracy. I use bhn 10 in everything.

I have taken a goodly number of deer and coyotes with this load. It was the first load I worked up and never saw a reason to change it.
Terminal performance has always been superb.
Granted where I hunt 100 yds is a very long shot with 30/40 yds being common. If I hunted more open country I would slow down the powder and up the velocity a little.

Just curious, did you test that in different temperatures? Was the group size stable below freezing vs 80 degrees?