Lots of powder, what to do? Need advice.

[BrutalAB]

Let me start this thread off by saying I know exactly what I should do with this powder. However I recognize that my "opinion" on this powder is likely to come under heavy scrutiny during a division of assets. So I am looking to get a consensus of the general population of people that have an accurate understanding of the risks and safety precautions of handloading. Rather than rely on some individuals that may or may not understand to take my word on the matter.

Background: I have around 35 pounds of various powders that were trapped in my house with my ex-wife-to-be, while I was basically prevented from entering and retrieving possessions because of the E.P.O. i had on her. (I had the E.P.O. withdrawn about 6 weeks later, I think... )
I was unable to get the powder and other loading supplies and equipment for 4 to 6 weeks or so, I can't remember exactly. Suffice to say, she had plenty of time to mix and swap as much as she wanted.
She has enough knowledge of reloading to know that mixing powders around and swapping containers would be extremely dangerous, but not much more than that. (She has this knowledge because the first time I tried to leave her I took all my powder and primers before anything else, and at some point while we tried to work things out she asked and I told her why.)

Given this situation what would you do with the powder? Pour it out? Keep it and use it?
If you keep and use it, there needs to be a dollar value placed on it, So how would you value the powder that has been in possession of someone that has harmed you and you had to have an E.P.O. on?



If it is useful information, I have the powder still, but have not used any of it since I gained possession of it. For obvious reasons.
I also have a very large quantity of primers, but it is significantly easier to identify primers through a visual inspection.

[GhostHawk]

Look at it, carefully.

Does each powder look like it should look?

If in doubt use for fertilizer. Sucks I know but sucks less than losing body parts, or life, or endangering someone else.

[BrutalAB]

There's somewhere around 20 different powders, all but two are pistol powders. So if they don't have markers in them like blue dot does, they look pretty similar. And February was the last time I got to load, so my memory isn't exactly perfect on what they should look like. I've got a lot of titegroup, some h110 and superformance. If I remember right, those three look pretty similar but obviously are all over the place for use.

Thanks for the input, I should have included that originally.

[rancher1913]

35 pounds is not really lots of powder, you already know what you need to do with it.

[AZ Pete]

sounds like fertilizer to me. Consider the cost of one "accident", not to mention the anxiety of being in doubt.

I think this is a great opportunity to simplify your powders to have only new, fresh powder that works the best. Having 20 types of powder on hand...mostly one pound or so each would not appeal to me.


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[jmort]

I would have gifted it to her. Taken whatever else was useful. Agree with notion that 35 pounds of powder is no big deal. Four 8 pound jugs and you are square.

[BrutalAB]

I had a post that I deleted a few minutes after making it because I realized it probably came off a bit offensive, which is not my goal. If you read that post, I alologize.
I should add that on the list of assets, she has included items that cost $4, as well as items that are broken. So that's what I am dealing with.

I just realized I sounded like an *** again.
I know I need to throw it away, because it's not worth the risk. I am not the one that needs to be convinced, it is all the other parties involved in my case, the ones that don't have a clue about handloading. They are who I need arguments directed towards. Because if we looked at this in a different situation, say, a set of jewel encrusted silverware... a lawyer would rip you apart for throwing away something that still had value. Or at least I would expect that.

So it's 500 to 600 dollars that you "have" but have thrown away, and then you have to replace it with another 500 to 600 dollars out of pocket.
So To be "square" actually costs you double unless you can convince people that probably dont understand the risks that your actions are justified.


The way I see it, the mere possession of it by a spouse that wishes me harm and I'll, destroyed it. And that is against the law, to destroy property after the date of seperation.

[mac60]

I had a post that I deleted a few minutes after making it because I realized it probably came off a bit offensive, which is not my goal. If you read that post, I alologize.
I should add that on the list of assets, she has included items that cost $4, as well as items that are broken. So that's what I am dealing with.

To really explain the predicament I am in:
Imagine that you have a freezer full of seasoned meat... and you are prevented from entering your house for a month. You finally get in the house and it looks like the meat was left in the freezer. And since it was seasoned, you can't really tell by smell if it has gone bad... (imagine here please) the wife and her lawyer say she left it in the freezer the whole time and you have to explain why you threw it away because that's another 500 to 600 dollars you "have" in assets.

The way I see it, the mere possession of it by a spouse that wishes me harm and I'll, destroyed it. And that is against the law, to destroy property after the date of seperation.

I, myself would tend to think of it as more of a liability than an asset. The whole matter is really twisted. If called on to "explain" why you destroyed it - couldn't you just do that. Be that as it may - if I were in your predicament, and I thought for one minute that she had the intent to do me harm by mixing the gunpowder to make it dangerous to use as intended I wouldn't use it. Your soon to be ex is a criminal and obviously mentally ill.

[JBinMN]

If they are including it in your assets, then perhaps just give it to her as part of the settlement since they are putting a value on it, & let her deal with the powder & any results from her possible tampering.

{ If they claim it isn't worth what you are offering as part of the deal after you offer it as part of the valued settlement, even though THEY placed a value on it, then you can use that against them to say that then it doesn't matter what value they had placed on it if they now say it isn't worth anything when it comes to using it as a part of your settlement, and then you can do with it as you like and destroy it or throw it in the garden...}

IF they keep it... then it takes YOU off the hook for anything if there has been tampering & satisfies their attempt to place a value on the powder. Particularly if they sell it as good when it is not & then She takes the fall for the bad doings, not you.

It is no different than her taking any other assets you have anyway.

Just trying to help. Really. The peace of mind to get it over with & not be your concern anymore with it, is likely worth more than the $$ value of the possibly tampered with powder. Let her have it & forget about it & move on.

G'Luck! with whatever you decide!

[BrutalAB]

Thank you, I hadn't really considered just giving it to her, because I didn't know how a refusal would be handled. I kinda like that line of thinking and believe that will be the simplest course of action. I came here looking for something I could print out and show that I am in the majority of what people would do, and find I won't even need it.


Thank you all!

[mdi]

I think I would consult my lawyer. If she is vindictive enough to actually mix the powders, maybe the lawyer can give you legal advise concerning the ruining of your assets... (kinda like returning your classic '61 Midget with 4 flats and something in the gas tank that ain't gas).

[sureYnot]

But now it's in your possession and she can claim you did something to it. You may just be over a barrel.

I'll second talking about it with your lawyer. Perhaps it can then be destroyed or declared to be worthless and excluded from the assets to be divided.

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[LUCKYDAWG13]

Wow was the breakup that Bad that you think that she would do that to harm or even try and kill you by mixing your powders up
If you think that she did well then I would call it a loss hope you have better luck with the next one

[slim1836]

Claim it on insurance.

Slim

[ascast]

Sounds like a couple of my sisters. I would visually inspect. Those that look like they should, if possible. Otherwise give it all to her. Expensive,yes, but it won't kill you. Unless you live in the country and need a stump moved or similar. good luck with that..

[Carrier]

Wow I’m with Luckydawg as well. I can’t imagine this happening with my wife of 40 years but if you have any doubts that your ex would do something like this then you are the only one that can answer your question.

[country gent]

While powders may look close different powders have different densities. You might be able to make a larger dipper of a given size. For example a 3/4" tube 1"long with a end soldered in and a handle. throw and weigh 20 charges of the suspect powder. then replace it in the original container. Do the same with a known container of the same powder. A lot of time and expense of buying a lb more of each powder. The 2 20 charge averages should be very close to the same if its the same powder. By using the large dipper and large sampling differences in density is magnified. This is the best way I can think of.

[reddog81]

Powders look similar but usually not identical. It shouldn't be to hard to determine if 2 have been mixed. Dump a bunch out onto a paper plate and look at it closely to see if all the kernels are identical. If so it's probably not mixed.

If she has emptied containers and swaped powders that would be more difficult to detect, but you could buy a new pound and verify the old stuff matches the new stuff. If you were going to replace the powders any ways you won't be out anything by buying the new pounds.

[Budzilla 19]

Chunk it in the garden for fertilizer!!!! You know what to do. Not worth hurting yourself over.

[JBinMN]

I posted earlier with the thinking that you have already retained an attorney in regard to this. If you have not retained an attorney, so be it, my suggestion remains the same. Use the powder as some "leverage" by attempting to offer it as part of the settlement & if they refuse it, then they are basically saying has no value to them & thus is not worth a doggone thing since you can say the same, based on your not knowing if it is still good powder or not, & thus they should not care if it is destroyed or whatever. It should take its value, & its' use or disposal off the table.

I would also offer to tell you that their valuation on how much it is worth can be contested as well. I did not go into this before, but I will try to explain what I mean now.

For example purposes I am going to generalize & not use actual specifics since I do not know all about the amounts & different types of powder you are talking about, but if you have 35 pounds of powder and all the powder was in 1 pound containers with an approximate cost of $20 each when bought NEW you would have a total value at purchase of $700.00.

If/since some of the powder has now been opened it is no longer considered, "New", and will likely be, by any potential buyer as in a "Used" ( "used" by being opened, even if the amount is as was when new) condition. So that will begin to limit the amount of value on the powder & it would not sell easily at close to "new" price, so then it becomes a product at a lower price than "new".

Coming up with a price for "used" powders is then subject to what you or anyone else can sell it for if the owner( you or her) is not going to use it. The REAL VALUE of the 35# of powder is only just what you can get someone to pay you or her for it. So, if someone is only willing to offer you only $35 for the whole lot, then that $35 is the "real value" of the powder. If someone will offer you $350 for the whole lot, then that would be the "real value". So it will all depend on what someone is willing to pay for the powder to get its actual "real value", and anything else is pure conjecture.

Lastly, there is the time & efforts it takes to sell it. If you make $25 an hour( or whatever price yo put on your time but I am using $25/hr..) & it takes you an hour to type up an ad to place on Craigs list & then you sell it for $35, then your hour of $25 taken out of the $35 for the powder ends up giving it a "real value" of $10. If you place an ad in the paper and it sells for $35 but you paid $50 for the ad, then the powder has a negative "real value" & actually cost you to get rid of it. You can see where I am going with this ( called, "overhead" in business in case someone doesn't know) & thus it is better to claim that it has no value to you any longer & that if they have a value on it, then they can have it for that value they claim it is worth on Their side of the settlement.

When they claim it has value, but you are not willing to use it, so it has Zero value to You unless They want it & in reality it is not sold yet, so it has Zero "real value" as far as you are concerned, then if they wish to give it a value of anything more than Zero, then you should be able to give it to her as part of your settlement with her at THEIR valuation & she can consider it as worth the value they placed on it, and She can try to sell it for the value They claimed it was worth, while you know the "real value" is not all what they said it would be, but only what they can get for it minus their time & effort to sell it(their "overhead").

Once again, G'Luck! & I hope it all works out for the best.

[jonp]

If it was still in her possession then I would have gifted it to her. Now that it is in yours you can't prove anything so now what to do.

Be honest and take the emotion out of it. Do you really think she is unhinged and vindictive enough to knowingly mix powder to cause you injury or death? If so, dump it and move on. If your not sure or don't think so, inspect it carefully then if it looks good try some known minimum loads and see what happens.

I have had some crazy ex's but none that I think would try and kill me in an explosion although one did loosen lug nuts causing a wheel to fall off.

A few pounds of powder is not much in the grand scheme of things. Ease your mind by throwing it out and move on is what I'd do.

[Paper Puncher]

If you haven't lawyered up yet do so. When dividing assets you shouldn't have to take something the other person doesn't want. As for the powder if you let her have it get a liability release. The lawyer should be able to write something up. You can always state that due to unknown storage conditions the powder may no longer be safe to use and as such has no value to you.

[BrutalAB]

I do have a lawyer retained.
To take the emotion out of things, I have done that a long time ago. I didn't think my wife would ever do the things she had done that lead me to make the decision to leave. On that note, I do not leave anything out of the realm of possibility anymore.

Why didn't I go to my lawyer for advice on this situation? My lawyer doesn't know anything about handloading and trying to explain why I believed I should dispose of it was futile.
So I figured a long list of others that draw the same conclusion would have been more effective. But avoiding the whole thing is a much better plan.

[higgins]

After a visual inspection, load a few light loads out of each container in a cartridge appropriate for that powder. If they chronograph in the range of velocities you would expect for that load, you might be able to call it good. If you have chronograph data for previous loads with that powder, so much the better.

[lightman]

I would not use it.

[P Flados]

If you want to keep it for future use, I would set it aside and buy new powder one type at a time.

Take you new powder and do a careful comparison to the "old powder" of the same label. Set up your powder measure for a large charge of the "new" batch powder then run your "old batch" through. Look carefully at the grains. If it looks ok, consider using it. Start low the the old stuff and use it in a "heavy duty" gun to the extent possible.

Even if she wanted to mess with you, mixing powders without it being detectable would take quite a bit of gall, guts & smarts. And since she knows you have a lawyer, there would be a real risk for her if you do find evidence of malicious tampering.

[WheelgunConvert]

I would have some obvious samples analysed for adulterated components. You would have to get someone else to take them, but could provide proof positive of intent to cause harm.

Or you have fertilizer

[GregLaROCHE]

You are such a lucky guy! I once went through a bad divorce and what you are talking about is nothing. Be happy you’re rid of her. Throw the powder away and move on.

[JimB..]

I would tell your lawyer that you believe that the powder is spoiled and that you place $0 value on it and that you can either dispose of it or she can have it. No drama.

[Bookworm]

I would tell your lawyer that you believe that the powder is spoiled and that you place $0 value on it and that you can either dispose of it or she can have it. No drama.

This.

Believe me, during the course of what sounds like a very messy divorce, the money spent on this powder will be a pittance. This is not the hill to die on.

Put a value of zero on it, and move on. You've already got more in legal fees than the price of replacement powder, just trying to explain to the attorney about powder.

Forget about the powder. You've got worse coming.

[JBinMN]

I had a post that I deleted a few minutes after making it because I realized it probably came off a bit offensive, which is not my goal. If you read that post, I alologize.
I should add that on the list of assets, she has included items that cost $4, as well as items that are broken. So that's what I am dealing with.

I just realized I sounded like an *** again.
I know I need to throw it away, because it's not worth the risk. I am not the one that needs to be convinced, it is all the other parties involved in my case, the ones that don't have a clue about handloading. They are who I need arguments directed towards. Because if we looked at this in a different situation, say, a set of jewel encrusted silverware... a lawyer would rip you apart for throwing away something that still had value. Or at least I would expect that.

So it's 500 to 600 dollars that you "have" but have thrown away, and then you have to replace it with another 500 to 600 dollars out of pocket.
So To be "square" actually costs you double unless you can convince people that probably dont understand the risks that your actions are justified.


The way I see it, the mere possession of it by a spouse that wishes me harm and I'll, destroyed it. And that is against the law, to destroy property after the date of seperation.

It seems some missed what is happening ( or I am missing something)... The quote above is post#7 in the topic, made by the OP of the topic saying that there has been a value placed on the powder by the OTHER party in the dispute.

The way I understand it is that the OP HAS put a value of Zero on it, but the other party thinks there IS some value to it.
(About $5-600.00 if I am not mistaken, reading what is bolded above in the quote of post #7.)

So it will still come down to figuring out how to either devalue the powder(s) then dispose of it, or use it as leverage against the settlement value since the other party thinks there IS a value to it.

[GregLaROCHE]

Do any of those powders happen to still have original seals? They should be ok if you want to keep them.

[MT Gianni]

I would act like I wanted to keep it until they put a value on it. Once it has a value give it to her for that. Divorce is expensive enough, don't look to save money here.

[Handloader109]

Yep, she can have it if she thinks it has value. Either to her or for her to sell. I'd place value at zero as it is fertilizer......

[Traffer]

There are very precise measurements and good pictures here:
http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/search.php

[fatelk]

There are very precise measurements and good pictures here:
http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/search.php

That's a good one. I've used that site before when there's any doubt about a powder. There are ways to tell, and most of them have been detailed already. From a practical perspective, I think that using these various techniques you could come to a confident conclusion as to whether it had been tampered with or not.

That said, I agree that salvaging the powder is absolutely the least of your worries. I think that at this point you should absolutely not destroy it, but put in storage until the whole messy deal is concluded. Not because you might be able to salvage it, but only because if you dispose of it, it could reflect poorly on you if you have to try to explain why to someone who has no clue about reloading.

When it comes up, just say that if she thinks it has value, she's welcome to have it. I know I'm not the first to say that, but I'll agree that it sounds like a good idea to me. :)

[garywg]

Just throw it away.

[fredj338]

Well 35# is not a ton so I would just let it go but that is me.

[Messy bear]

If she did mess with it and it goes to someone else, then they unknowingly use it? Not good.

[Rusty Gunn]

How much is the replacement value in the total cost big picture of this divorce? That may be the safest banswer. YMMV

[BrutalAB]

It seems some missed what is happening ( or I am missing something)... The quote above is post#7 in the topic, made by the OP of the topic saying that there has been a value placed on the powder by the OTHER party in the dispute.

The way I understand it is that the OP HAS put a value of Zero on it, but the other party thinks there IS some value to it.
(About $5-600.00 if I am not mistaken, reading what is bolded above in the quote of post #7.)

So it will still come down to figuring out how to either devalue the powder(s) then dispose of it, or use it as leverage against the settlement value since the other party thinks there IS a value to it.


This is exactly what I was trying to convey. Thank you for putting it in different words.

[sw282]

0ne of my gripes on powder packaging is the lack of tamper resistant seals or lids of 1 pound containers... Boolits, candy, meds- virtually every product has some type of tamper resistant lid... NOT l pound powder cans tho.. 0nly tamper resistant lids on powder cans are the 4 and 8 pound kegs

[dogdoc]

Is this for real? This whole thread sounds ridiculous .

[rancher1913]

obviously you have never been thru a nasty divorce dogdoc. things can get very petty.

[Geezer in NH]

Not being suicidal, I would fertilize a garden or lawn. In fact I would have never picked it up in the first place with that worry.

Be happy she is over.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I would tell your lawyer that you believe that the powder is spoiled and that you place $0 value on it and that you can either dispose of it or she can have it. No drama.


This.

Believe me, during the course of what sounds like a very messy divorce, the money spent on this powder will be a pittance. This is not the hill to die on.

Put a value of zero on it, and move on. You've already got more in legal fees than the price of replacement powder, just trying to explain to the attorney about powder.

Forget about the powder. You've got worse coming.

Yep, these two posts summarize my opinion.
-the powder is worth nothing, let her have it if she thinks it has value.
-this is not the hill to die on.

[murf205]

BrutalAB, the reason that divorces are so expensive, is that they are worth every cent! Sometimes a divorce is a bargain at ANY price.

[fatelk]

Yep, these two posts summarize my opinion.
-the powder is worth nothing, let her have it if she thinks it has value.
-this is not the hill to die on.

Exactly, and precisely why I think it's a bad idea to dispose of it until after the whole thing is over.

"It's worthless to me because I can't be sure you didn't vandalize it out of spite. If you think it has value, here it is - all yours."

[Sneakfoot]

No offense,but suck it up, and take the lost.The powder is the least of your worries.