8 Gauge Shotgun in the new movie "Appalosa"

[Just Duke]

Anyone seen this movie?
8 Gauge Shotgun (http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00040/WEK_APPALOOSA100208_40221c.jpeg) side by side.
Just for kicks does anyone make a replica?
Did anyone see the size of the shells?
Does anyone make a reloader or dies for this caliber?
Brass cartridges with black powder would seem like a challenging reload.
TIA,
Duke

If you might not have one of these walking around your back yard, do not ask!, "why would you need a gun that big ha hah ha!" :roll: need not reply.


http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee247/jpomazi/Kodiak091.jpg



http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee247/jpomazi/Kodiak092.jpg

[0802]

I'm reasonably certain anything larger than a 10 gauge is illegal in the US, since when and according to what I don't know. I have read that they are still used and popular for waterfowling in Europe (British Isles, I think). I have seen very old memoribilia on rare occasion. I think they may also have a legal industrial use.

I'm sure someone here can chime in with more certainty than I.

Josh

[bobk]

Wow, that is one big honking bear. I begin to doubt my .375! What would anyone carry (be realistic, now), If I expected to encounter such a monster? The best thing I might have is the old 1100 with hardcast RB.

Bob K

[longhorn]

8 ga isn't legal for hunting migratory fowl in the U.S. Upland bird use legality would vary state-by-state--not that I'd wanta lug one of those after pheasants, but to each his own. If you just want to own and shoot an 8 gauge, no problem. I think industrial use hulls are available, probably fresh ones, too. Try Ballistic Products (google is your friend) Might be just the gun for an afternoone with a case of clays and a thrower.

[longhorn]

BTW, that is _some_ bear! I've never seen a grizzly in the wild--look at the size of that paw!

[leadeye]

Man that's a big critter! I have enough trouble with coyotes, can't imagine sharing the woods with something like that around.

[Just Duke]

Naph has these babies in his front yard a few yards from his garbage cans on trash day.
Now you know why he wants a 50-110! lol

[Just Duke]

8 ga isn't legal for hunting migratory fowl in the U.S.
That don't look like no waterfowl. lol
It's more like it's people season and he's hungry!

[Bigjohn]

Man OH! Man; if that bear decided he wanted to join us at the BARBIE-Que; he have it alll to himself.

I can see why you would want an 8 gauge; solids would be good and the second shot if you missed on the first.

Duke, OT? How is Gil GRISSOM (William PETERSEN) and his CSI team going? The locla TV station took them off the air about a year ago. It was the only version of that show I liked.

John.

[Just Duke]

Duke, OT? How is Gil GRISSOM (William PETERSEN) and his CSI team going? The locla TV station took them off the air about a year ago. It was the only version of that show I liked.

John.

OMFG! That show should be on the Sci Fi channel. The CSI is an overhead garage door into a plain jane warehouse. My buddy runs the team and has a gorgeous Philipino wife. We know some other and the show is FICTION!

[Bigjohn]

OMFG! That show should be on the Sci Fi channel. The CSI is an overhead garage door into a plain jane warehouse. My buddy runs the team and has a gorgeous Philipino wife. We know some other and the show is FICTION!

Yea, I know but I used to get a chuckle watching some of the episodes and some of the characters were interesting. You had to take it as what it was tho; fiction.

Back to the bear; That thing would not even be able to wear my boots and I wear size 15/4e's.

John

[Just Duke]

Back to the gun too.

[littlejack]

My lord, that is one eating machine. Accidently running on to that would be the ultimate hunters nightmare.

[Bigjohn]

Ok DUKE!

The diameter of the bore is 0.835". The shells originally came in 3", 3 1/4" and 4" lengths.

The 3 1/4" shotshells were available from Game Bore in England.

Oh and as you know, it was banned in the US in 1918 in the interest of game conservation. But if you use it as a slug gun that may be a different matter.
I am told that their bark (Range) was worse than their bite (recoil) as they were design to get a load of shot up to the high flying birds.

Sorry, I can't find you the case dimensions.
Oops! here they are
Rim dia. = 0.998"
Base dia. = 0.913"
Mouth dia. = 0.902"

Lengths with roll crimp = 2.75", 3.00", 3.13", 3.25", 3.75" and 4.00" For a fired shell add .25" to all those measurements.

John

[Bigjohn]

Duke, sorry to 'hog' your thread but I've just had a thought.

If you are planning to go after a beast simular to the one in the photos; a shotgun, even an 8 gauge might not be the ideal weapon of choice.

I base this upon the following; a shotgun is normally designed as light as it is humanly possible to launch a load of shot at birds or running game.

Big & Dangerous game is normally tackled with a double rifle of large calibre. Or even one of the 4 bores.

IMHO a shotgun is going to punish you if you use a lot of heavy slug loads and shake the gun loose as has happened to a lot of the old BP proof shotgun and smokeless loadings.

Just my two cents,

John.

[dgslyr]

A friend who is a retired gunsmith once made up a mould for 10 ga. slugs that looked like those things used in badmitten.I can't remember what their called.Or airgun pellets.Anyway they looked similar.Hollow base.Seems like they weighed 900 grs.or there abouts.He made the mould for an Alaska game warden who had the job of dealing with problem grizzlies.This was in the middle or late 60's.He said the game warden told him they worked really well.I don't know the load they used.

[Just Duke]

IMHO a shotgun is going to punish you

John.

I can take alot of punishment I'm married. lol

[Just Duke]

Duke, sorry to 'hog' your thread but I've just had a thought.

If you are planning to go after a beast simular to the one in the photos; a shotgun, even an 8 gauge might not be the ideal weapon of choice.

I base this upon the following; a shotgun is normally designed as light as it is humanly possible to launch a load of shot at birds or running game.

Big & Dangerous game is normally tackled with a double rifle of large calibre. Or even one of the 4 bores.

IMHO a shotgun is going to punish you if you use a lot of heavy slug loads and shake the gun loose as has happened to a lot of the old BP proof shotgun and smokeless loadings.

Just my two cents,

John.
Hog it John! :bigsmyl2: We are all learning here and appreciate the specs on the shell size. I mean that. ;)

[Bigjohn]

http://www.gamebore.com/index.asp

The above is a link to the company which was making the cartridges; I can not find the 8 gauge listed.
They have a notice stating that they are re-constructing their website and maybe that is why the 8 Gauge is missing.

John

[Bigjohn]

I can take alot of punishment I'm married. lol

I have never met your SWMBO but you could be in a whole different world of pain if she reads this over your shoulder.[smilie=1: :-D

Take care,
John

[skeet1]

There is a company in a nearby town that had a 8 bore side X side Purdy that I was able to shoulder. Very impressive! I think that the asking price was $100,000.00. I just checked their web site and it is no longer on there, I guess it sold. If you would like to see some nice guns check this out http://www.champlinarms.com

Skeet1

[klw]

Remington makes and sells an 8-gage. Looks kind of like a small field piece. Used to clean furnaces?????

[StrawHat]

Remington makes and sells an 8-gage. Looks kind of like a small field piece. Used to clean furnaces?????


I believe it is used to loosen the scale on the sides of the kilns used for lime.

At least that is what i recall.

[Just Duke]

I would have felt better hunting that bear with a Barrett.

[dromia]

This is a 4 bore, muzzle loader:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Bisley%20Open%20Day%202007/PICT0211.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Bisley%20Open%20Day%202007/PICT0211.jpg)


Thats the one on the left without the bunnet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Bisley%20Open%20Day%202007/4BoreYaBass.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Bisley%20Open%20Day%202007/4BoreYaBass.jpg)

Here is a 10 bore hammer gun by Coates of Woolsingham Co Durham:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Coates%2010%20Bore/10Bore1.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Coates%2010%20Bore/10Bore1.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Coates%2010%20Bore/10Bore2.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Coates%2010%20Bore/10Bore2.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Coates%2010%20Bore/10Bore3.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Coates%2010%20Bore/10Bore3.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Coates%2010%20Bore/10Bore4.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Coates%2010%20Bore/10Bore4.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Coates%2010%20Bore/10Bore6.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Coates%2010%20Bore/10Bore6.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Coates%2010%20Bore/10Bore8.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Coates%2010%20Bore/10Bore8.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)


Sorry no 8 bore pics done yet.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Here it is Duke, Have Fun. Hope you're Shoulder survives. http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/in (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/inventory/buda/fine_rifle/999853_beat8_bud.jsp;jsessionid=T0OBIA0TF5XA1LAQBB JSCN3MCAEFIIWE?_requestid=26776)
ventory/buda/fine_rifle/999853_beat8_bud.jsp;jsessionid=T0OBIA0TF5XA1L (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/inventory/buda/fine_rifle/999853_beat8_bud.jsp;jsessionid=T0OBIA0TF5XA1LAQBB JSCN3MCAEFIIWE?_requestid=26776)
AQBBJSCN3MCAEFIIWE?_requestid=26776 (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/inventory/buda/fine_rifle/999853_beat8_bud.jsp;jsessionid=T0OBIA0TF5XA1LAQBB JSCN3MCAEFIIWE?_requestid=26776)

[milespb]

Remington does make an 8 ga. shell it's designation is SP8 ( magnum) it has a 3oz. slug and is used for removing material rings from kilns. The gun we use is tripod mounted and probably weighs 250# with a Martini type action

[dromia]

Welcome to Cast Boolits Milespb. :drinks:

[Just Duke]

Here it is Duke, Have Fun. Hope you're Shoulder survives. http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/in (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/inventory/buda/fine_rifle/999853_beat8_bud.jsp;jsessionid=T0OBIA0TF5XA1LAQBB JSCN3MCAEFIIWE?_requestid=26776)
ventory/buda/fine_rifle/999853_beat8_bud.jsp;jsessionid=T0OBIA0TF5XA1L (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/inventory/buda/fine_rifle/999853_beat8_bud.jsp;jsessionid=T0OBIA0TF5XA1LAQBB JSCN3MCAEFIIWE?_requestid=26776)
AQBBJSCN3MCAEFIIWE?_requestid=26776 (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/inventory/buda/fine_rifle/999853_beat8_bud.jsp;jsessionid=T0OBIA0TF5XA1LAQBB JSCN3MCAEFIIWE?_requestid=26776)


My wallet sure wouldn't. lol Thanks for the link MCS.

[wills]

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=26496

[yondering]

So, regarding the original post, did any of you guys see the movie? Just got done reading the book, and wondered about the movie. In the book, the main character does carry an 8 gauge double.

[Bent Ramrod]

The movie is pretty good, more a character/interaction study and a display of authentic period stuff and high production values than a gripping story. Ed Harris is one of those actors who seems to get better and more authentic the older he gets, and he obviously put his heart and soul into this film.

The 8-gauge only gets fired a couple times during the movie, but it's pretty effective. The heavy load in the old days was 5-1/2 drams/equivalent of powder and 1-3/4 oz of shot, so a 12-gauge Magnum would probably do as well or better, except for the "gravitas" factor.

[Dustypilgrim]

Hi ,


I stumbled on your forum whilst running searches on big bore shotguns and fowling pieces.

My grandfather was an odd old fellow by UK standards , spent several parts of his life feeding his family from things like wild-fowling , and what he called
freelance gamekeeping...( I do believe some others , landowners , magistrates and such ) might have referred to it as poaching). at one time He had a punt gun , which was an awesome thing . The bore on it was probably about two inches . If it was any smaller it wasn't by much.
When the thing was fired it was like a small cannon going off. If you were in the punt , the world really did move ... The thing could take as many as forty birds at a time.
He was Royal Horse Artillery in WW1 , and I think he just acquired a taste for very large bores and bangs.
Only time he ever got seriously mad at me was after he found out a friend and me had taken it out on our own when we were about 12 , and I had fired the thing...

Yes , I was showing off to a mate who came from a gun starved family.
We have lots of those in The UK...
More and more , now , as the govt makes more and more laws.
Only ones that can own decent firearms here are the criminals.
I believe it is a human rights thing,


sorry for boring you , here ...
The thing that caught my interest was the reference to the Coates large-bores.
My grandfather came from Ireland , but settled in Co Durham ,.... he also had two large bore Coates guns.
Not sure of the exact bore on them. But , as a kid , they were damn big..Wish I knew where they went...
Sometimes he would use them to take fowl rather than the 'deck' gun. He even jerry-rigged a sort of rope and pintle-mount so I could fire one without being sent butt-over-apex, over the side, for dip.

I spotted the price tag stated for a large bore piece , up the page .
and Wondered if this might interest anyone.

http://www.johnforsey.co.uk/shotguns_big.html

some of the prices seem quite reasonable.

Even with any transit and import costs it might prove far cheaper than that $100,000 that was mentioned.

If any of you want to look for any big bore pieces in the UK , Gun dealers in Norfolk , Suffolk , Lincolnshire , Kent , maybe Cambridgeshire , might be the best areas. They are the areas that were wetland and fen-rich and supported large scale wildfowling.
There will be less demand for any guns , in the UK , and the prices might well be held down as a result.

[mainiac]

We have a 8 gauge gun at the lime-kiln, where i work. It shoots the mud balls that are to big to fall threw the grates. One man feeding,and one man firing, it will fire very fast. The mill uses zinc slugs now,because of enviromental concerns. With the lead slug,it would barely make it to the other end of the kiln,which is 300 feet long. The zinc slug is lighter, and care has to be takin, because it will shoot dead on, all the way to the back end. Can really pound up the kiln if you miss! BTW, the gun is made by remington,and the shells are by them as well.

[wilddog45]

Tie yur lariat around one of these babies http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7FeeamC4qk

[EDK]

The movie is pretty good...just bought the DVD...but the book is much better! They left out some scenes that would have made it a lot better...Everett and Virgil meeting at a gunfight and more story about arresting Bragg. Overall pretty good.

Mrs. Duke aka Buffalo Barbie is pretty cool about things. Go look over her threads (freudian slip there!) over at lass web site. Unfortunately some people here gave her a hard time over her pictures. Our loss! "Any day a pretty girl smiles at me is a better day."

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[northmn]

Interesting dope on gauge guns in Cartridges of the World. They were use in the later muzzleloading days with hardened round ball for a variety of dangerous game hunting. Taylor shot elephant with a 10 gauge ML smooth rifle during the war when ammo was hard to get. He used a round ball and about 5 drams of powder. In BP days a 10 gauge was usually loaded with about 1 1/4 oz of shot and an 8 likely up to the load mentioned. Most of the real big bores like the 8 gauge are kind of ungainly for normal carrying. I have seen some older 10's that were little heavier than a 12 and still would pack plenty of punch. I used to have an 11 bore Brown Bess that used a 540 grain 715 ball. Even with a mere 100 grains of Black it would do things to gongs that a little 50 cal maxie ball could not touch. In one case I wrapped a gon held on a chain 3 times and in another it knocked the gong frame out of the ground. A 10 gauge ball will beigh in excess of 600 grains. Big bore are fun.

Northmn

[Mortalmgr]

My mom was married to a guy for a few months that worked at a mine. He brought home a 8 guage shell that was used in a slug gun conneced to a chair and shock set up. He would shoot the wall above a deep hole and the slug would knock the oar off the walls and fall to the bottom. From there they would load trucks with what was knocked off the walls. The shell was a little larger than a roll of quarters. Just FYI.

[10 ga]

In the family there is a #8 double gun. Brother has gun, paper and brass shells and hand loading equipment. It was passed down from greatgrandfather. He was a commercial hunter/waterman/decoy carver. It is a break action hammer gun. It also has damascus barrels. The shells indicate loads of 1 & 7/8 oz of shot. Mostly "fine shot", 8-9-10 size shot, in the shells we have that are marked. Greatgrandfather shot mostly marsh and shorebirds for market. With the cylinder bore of that gun I imagine it cut quite a swath through a flock of curlews, yellowlegs, dowitchers or plovers when they set to the decoys. Of course the shells are all BP. The gun is old and the barrels are very thin. It was certainly not designed or intended for ball or slugs. The loads of that day (1870s to 1920s) in the #8 gun were only about equal to modern very high power 3" 12 oads of today. It was probably much easier to shoot with less recoil and pounding than the long 12 gauge shells now. Also have a lever action #10 gauge that he used as a "cripple" gun or for single birds. It is certainly nostalgic to handle such historic and heirloom pieces even if the preservation isn't museum fine. They were working tools for working men. If anyone knows decoys from the era my GGF was Luther Nottingham. Best to all, 10 ga

[Just Duke]

So any 10 gauge guns out there side by sides or 1887's aftermarkets?

[Just Duke]

I have never met your SWMBO but you could be in a whole different world of pain if she reads this over your shoulder.[smilie=1: :-D

Take care,
John


She Who Must Be Obeyed?
Ok now I get it after a goggle search. Goggle search.
I wield the staff in my house. lol That's for sure.

[Just Duke]

The movie is pretty good, more a character/interaction study and a display of authentic period stuff and high production values than a gripping story. Ed Harris is one of those actors who seems to get better and more authentic the older he gets, and he obviously put his heart and soul into this film.
.

Very well done but the cast was way to old to depict those endigenous to the chronological time frame. Ed Harris looks around 55-ish plus.
Viggio Mortensen a touch younger.
36 years was the longevity average. Shame too.

[leadeye]

So any 10 gauge guns out there side by sides or 1887's aftermarkets?

Can't speak for the old 10s but the new ones will kill a turkey through a lot of brush. The first time I took mine hunting after getting it you could really see the hole through the weeds between my position and the turkey. I have a picture of it somewhere I will have to dig up. The gun is a Remington SP-10.:-D

[DocWatson]

Pardon me for reviving an old thread, but I obtained much of the information I was seeking from here, and though I'd give back a little. Links:

Remington MasterBlaster System (http://www.remington.com/Products/Ammunition/Industrial/) (8 ga.)

Winchester Industrial Products (http://www.winchester.com/industrial/default.aspx) (8 ga.)—the Western and Ringblaster "Tools" PDF downloads are maintenance manuals, but the Industrial Loads PDF is a nice catalog


A friend who is a retired gunsmith once made up a mould for 10 ga. slugs that looked like those things used in badmitten.I can't remember what their called.Or airgun pellets.Anyway they looked similar.Hollow base.Seems like they weighed 900 grs.or there abouts.He made the mould for an Alaska game warden who had the job of dealing with problem grizzlies.This was in the middle or late 60's.He said the game warden told him they worked really well.I don't know the load they used.
Those sound as if they were the outsized ancestors of the BRI Sabot slug (http://www.cabelas.com/p-0016697212291a.shtml). The 1972 edition of Law Enforcement Handgun Digest (Dean A. Grennell and Mason Williams; Northfield, Ill., Digest Books; ISBN 0695803352) had an article on them entitled "Patient, Dogged Research And Development Finally Paid Off With Proof That Projectiles Needn't Spin For Tack-Driving Accuracy!" on pages 112–115. IIRC BRI slugs were redesigned (http://www.angelfire.com/tx/ShotGun/INFO/AllOutdoors/accrev.html) in the 1980s or '90s to perform up to the hype, and speaking of movies they were (incorrectly) touted as super armor piercing rounds in Alien Nation (http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Alien_Nation).

[jim4065]

Tie yur lariat around one of these babies http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7FeeamC4qk

Thanks - I needed a new impossible dream. :mrgreen:

[delmar]

Anyone seen this movie?
8 Gauge Shotgun (http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00040/WEK_APPALOOSA100208_40221c.jpeg) side by side.
Just for kicks does anyone make a replica?
Did anyone see the size of the shells?
Does anyone make a reloader or dies for this caliber?
Brass cartridges with black powder would seem like a challenging reload.
TIA,
Duke

If you might not have one of these walking around your back yard, do not ask!, "why would you need a gun that big ha hah ha!" :roll: need not reply.



I just rented that movie from netflix and was wondering about the gun. Thanks guys, for all the info. Interesting thread!

[Dframe]

I once fired an 8 gauge muzzel loader double barrel. My shoulder and I have never forgotten