A gift from a friend

[John McCorkle]

Had a friend overhear my excitement over the first muzzleloader I got a few weeks ago. (Picked up a Remington Genesis for a smooth 30 bucks)...never had been interested in muzzleloader before but now I have one i am very excited!!

Today at church he walks me out to his truck and pulls out a box he said he's had for 30+ years in the attic and never put it together. He said it is mine and all he asks is for a back strap from a deer I kill with it!!

I know these are super popular and hopefully have some suggestions from experience to offer?

Looks like he never touched it, so other than the wear on the box of being eaten by silverfish looks perfect.

In 50 cal which is perfect since I already bought a mold for the Genesis that will work with this one too! (Lee REAL combo 320 and rb mold)



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[joatmon]

Sweet!! Very Sweet!!
Aaron

[Jniedbalski]

Nice, I want one to put together

[Jniedbalski]

I had one years ago and it shot really good

[mazo kid]

That should be an easy build! Files and some sandpaper, maybe a carving knife. Keep us posted on how it goes.

[Gtek]

I assume he will be receiving a wonderful heartfelt gift this Christmas? Blessings? It appears you have been a very good boy! What a gesture, cherish the build and the ride.

[Minerat]

I built one in 1985, that is a 54 cal. worked on it while watching TV. Filed and sanded the barrel down to crocus cloth grade then had it hot blued. It's like looking into a dark blue mirror. Finished stock with 2 light coats of maple stain, 7 coats of sanded hand rubbed tru oil and a final buffing. It is one gun that I will never sell.

[Texas by God]

You are going to have so much fun! And the Cadillac of kits!
Take your time but have it ready by next season to hold up your end!

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[Tom W.]

Can't be beat! Mine is a .45 caliber I bought in 1976. It wasn't a kit though. All I've harvested with it was squirrels, and now it sits in my son's gun safe.......

That Plum Brown will make the rifle look mighty purteeee......

[Buzzard II]

Home run! Good luck with it and enjoy it!
Bob

[John McCorkle]

You are going to have so much fun! And the Cadillac of kits!
Take your time but have it ready by next season to hold up your end!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using TapatalkId like to give this thing and it's previous owner the respect it deserves as a very generous gift...plan to polish the brass with very fine grit paper then polish compound...sand the stock super fine, stain, then polish in with beeswax? ( What is a good finish sealer for the Walnut?)

Blue the barrel and set in the hardware...prob put in a 209 conversion nipple and rear peep sight....I dunno may leave the original sight

What color should I stain the stock?

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[smoked turkey]

Good Evening John: What a great friend you have there. I had the exact same kit. I moved it a couple of times when we relocated, and ended up having it several years before doing the build. Anyway, what I decided to do was do the build with my grandson helping me. We worked on it and I took it to a local gunsmith for bluing after much preparation on the barrel by draw-filing the barrel flats and using several grits of wet-or-dry crocus paper. It turned out pretty nice. After completion, I presented it to my grandson. It was very enjoyable getting to spend time with, and sharing the build with my grandson. I know you will like it.

[Tom W.]

I would just put Tru-Oil on it.....but that's me. I sanded down an old Montgomery Ward double barrel shotgun stock and did that, with no stain. It made the most pretty blonde stock....

[John McCorkle]

Good Evening John: What a great friend you have there. I had the exact same kit. I moved it a couple of times when we relocated, and ended up having it several years before doing the build. Anyway, what I decided to do was do the build with my grandson helping me. We worked on it and I took it to a local gunsmith for bluing after much preparation on the barrel by draw-filing the barrel flats and using several grits of wet-or-dry crocus paper. It turned out pretty nice. After completion, I presented it to my grandson. It was very enjoyable getting to spend time with, and sharing the build with my grandson. I know you will like it.Why draw file the barrel flats? Just to smooth it out more before wet sanding?

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[KMac]

Good for you! Take some pics during the build.
I have been looking for one of those TC kits for a while. My 16 year old son had wanted us to put one together.
Mentioned it to my sons great uncle when we were at his place last thanksgiving and he said come back to my shop.
He handed me a .45 TC Hawken and asked if it would be alright to give to my son. It was the first gun her ever bought back in 1976 and it is a beauty. It has a new barrel on it. I am very thankful for his generosity, and will return the favor when it is my turn to be generous.

[John McCorkle]

Good for you! Take some pics during the build.
I have been looking for one of those TC kits for a while. My 16 year old son had wanted us to put one together.
Mentioned it to my sons great uncle when we were at his place last thanksgiving and he said come back to my shop.
He handed me a .45 TC Hawken and asked if it would be alright to give to my son. It was the first gun her ever bought back in 1976 and it is a beauty. It has a new barrel on it. I am very thankful for his generosity, and will return the favor when it is my turn to be generous.I'm truly humbled and excited for his generosity... my wife keeps telling me what a kid I look like carefully handling and opening the box as if it were fragile...

My boys are yet a bit too young to appreciate it...but they'll def want to help daddy (got three of them, 4 years, 2 years and 8 months old) - I'll need to figure out what pieces they can "help" with on it.



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[Hardcast416taylor]

The 50 cal. kit I built back in the `80`s I wanted to give it an antique look on the ramrod, so I spiral scorched it then tru oiled it several coats. Draw filing is a process to remove rough spots and square the octagon barrel flats. Birchwood Casey makes a walnut wood sealer if that answers your question, otherwise just go ahead and start doing the tru oil coats. I steel wooled the stock a day after each tru oil coat, after 10 coats I sprayed a coat of tru oil then a day later I rubbed it down with pumice.Robert

[rfd]

good on you! screwdriver sidelock kits are fun to assemble and the t/c's are good 'uns.

[smoked turkey]

Post 12 perfectly answered the draw filing question. I found it best to keep the barrel's corners crisp and well defined to wrap the crocus cloth around the file for the smoothing operation. The quality of the blue job depends on the quality of the prep work.

[pietro]

plan to polish the brass with very fine grit paper then polish compound...sand the stock super fine, stain, then polish in with beeswax ? (What is a good finish sealer for the Walnut ?)

[The above plan for the stock is not a finish - sanding/staining are preparations for finishing. If beeswax (a top coat) is applied, applying finish will be impossible. Tru-Oil works very well as a stock finish, and can be left glossy or rubbed down with 0000 steel wool for a satin finish. Apply the wax AFTER[/I] the finish has cured/hardened.]



Blue the barrel and set in the hardware... [The browning solution that came with the fit is traditional, and if the barrel is polished properly B 4 application, the browning can look fantastic...… and classic.]

prob put in a 209 conversion nipple - [NOT ! !]

and rear peep sight....I dunno may leave the original sight - [I would advise shooting it with the open/barrel sights before making that decision.]

What color should I stain the stock ? - [No stain if you like a light-colored walnut, one of the darker brown shades if a darker brown walnut is desired.]




I hope that helps make your friend's gift a treasure to remember - and, impress him with your skills built. :D

.

[John McCorkle]

I hope that helps make your friend's gift a treasure to remember - and, impress him with your skills built. :D

.How do I flat file and polish the barrel without damaging the segment of barrel with imprint (caliber and make marks)

Seems as if I flat file and polish the barrel it would damage the lettering on that section

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[white eagle]

those are very nice rifles
I have one in 54 cal its is very accurate
shoot real's and patched rounds out of it
you will love the set trigger
enjoy :-P

[flint45]

I got one back in the 70's what a great shooter it is .Still have it 100grs. of 2f and a .50 cal. T/C maxi is a reel deer killer in mine.Have fun puttin it together.

[Texas by God]

Brown that barrel and use Tru-Oil and it will be gorgeous

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[pietro]

How do I flat file and polish the barrel without damaging the segment of barrel with imprint (caliber and make marks)

Seems as if I flat file and polish the barrel it would damage the lettering on that section




If the factory marking is deep enough, don't worry about it - since any file work is likely to be insignificant (just enough to remove any machining marks).

If it's shallow, work up to & around the edges of the markings.

Another option, since it's not a collector's item, would be to de-farb the barrel (disappear the markings, except the SN) - which many folks do for a custom effect.


.

[smoked turkey]

John, your question about destroying the markings on the barrel during the filing work is a good one and I suppose it is always a possibility. However pietro has stated the practical answer to the question is the depth of material removed in the smoothing process is pretty small if you use reasonable care. I think you will find that to be true with your build as well. It is a very fun process. I sure would like to have a 45 caliber TC kit to work on myself. Good gunsmithing to you and enjoy it. They are great muzzleloaders.
Stan

[arcticap]

How do I flat file and polish the barrel without damaging the segment of barrel with imprint (caliber and make marks)

Seems as if I flat file and polish the barrel it would damage the lettering on that section

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IMO every barrel and kit are different, and every person may have a different opinion about which method to use to finish the barrel.
Not everyone would draw file or defarb the barrel.
It really depends on the characteristics of the barrel, a person's level of experience and the specific barrel.
Please understand that opinions can vary greatly on how to finish a barrel, a stock or a kit.

If the barrel only needs to be polished and you decided to take it to a local gun shop that does a hot bluing job,
they would usually further polish the barrel by buffing it out with a machine to help make it look like a factory blue job which is harder to duplicate at home.

There are products that come very close to duplicating hot bluing, but can cost nearly as much as a professional blue job.
It depends on what kinds of results that you expect and can accomplish on your own.

It can always be reblued if your bluing method doesn't come out as good as you want it too.
But if you draw file the barrel poorly that may not be so easy to fix.

Just like anything, it's usually better to remove too little material than too much, because once you take it off you can't put it back on
and it needs to fit snugly into the stock.

You also asked about stock wax, there's Birchwood Casey stock wax to apply if needed. after the stock has been stained and/or oiled.

[yeahbub]

. . . prob put in a 209 conversion nipple . . . Eh?!? Why would you? May want to consider not fixing what isn't broken. Having 40-some years of competition and field shooting under my belt, I can attest to the reliability of plain old #11's, though for hunting, I defer to the use of RWS Vorderlader Zundhutzen (Front-loader Spark Hats - HAR! Still get a kick out of that), for their slightly greater sensitivity. Never had or needed 209 ignition, even in the most inclement weather. At Friendship, numerous shooters using percussion caps on the off-hand line compete all day without a detail cleaning and don't miss a beat due to reliability of ignition. Percussion caps have been in use since the 1830's without interruption and still work just fine. The new-fangled 209 thing was in response to the need for a convenient-to-handle and easy to clear ignition method for closed-breach in-lines which don't lend themselves to the use of percussion caps. For a traditional side-lock like the one you've come into, a Ted Cash straight line or snail capper is just the thing. Good luck with it. Post pictures of your progress.

I smoothed my barrels by wrapping emery cloth of various grades around a file. The file will give you a flat surface to keep the barrel flats properly flat. Actual draw-filing wasn't needed. I found that it isn't necessarily desirable to get it chrome-bumper shiny. A satin texture will often brown or blue more easily as the surface is more wettable and the Birchwood Casey Plum Brown or bluing agent will adhere more readily. In my humble opinion, a rifle of that design is more properly browned.

[John McCorkle]

QUOTE]. . . prob put in a 209 conversion nipple . . . Eh?!? Why would you? May want to consider not fixing what isn't broken. Having 40-some years of competition and field shooting under my belt, I can attest to the reliability of plain old #11's, though for hunting, I defer to the use of RWS Vorderlader Zundhutzen (Front-loader Spark Hats - HAR! Still get a kick out of that), for their slightly greater sensitivity. Never had or needed 209 ignition, even in the most inclement weather. At Friendship, numerous shooters using percussion caps on the off-hand line compete all day without a detail cleaning and don't miss a beat due to reliability of ignition. Percussion caps have been in use since the 1830's without interruption and still work just fine. The new-fangled 209 thing was in response to the need for a convenient-to-handle and easy to clear ignition method for closed-breach in-lines which don't lend themselves to the use of percussion caps. For a traditional side-lock like the one you've come into, a Ted Cash straight line or snail capper is just the thing. Good luck with it. Post pictures of your progress.

I smoothed my barrels by wrapping emery cloth of various grades around a file. The file will give you a flat surface to keep the barrel flats properly flat. Actual draw-filing wasn't needed. I found that it isn't necessarily desirable to get it chrome-bumper shiny. A satin texture will often brown or blue more easily as the surface is more wettable and the Birchwood Casey Plum Brown or bluing agent will adhere more readily. In my humble opinion, a rifle of that design is more properly browned.[/QUOTE]Thanks for that, never used percussion cap and no idea about their reliability...I'll save a dime or two and the aesthetic to stay with #11s

For the draw filing/sanding...how crazy should I get...meaning to what grit should I go into? I have a tendency to go all out and though it's alot of work, high polish beautiful. I refurbish old straight razors as a side hobby and use very fine Emery cloth on those (think 2500-3000 grit) then finish with tormek paste. What would barrel Browning do on a mirror?

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[mazo kid]

In my opinion, 220 grit wet/dry sandpaper is all the finer you need to go when browning the barrel. The browning solution needs some "texture" to work well. Install the furniture and if it is under the wood surface, carefully file/sand until it is flush. Then you are ready to apply your TruOil stock finish, and then brown the furniture. Apply your beeswax to screw threads to make it easier to turn them in.

[John McCorkle]

In my opinion, 220 grit wet/dry sandpaper is all the finer you need to go when browning the barrel. The browning solution needs some "texture" to work well. Install the furniture and if it is under the wood surface, carefully file/sand until it is flush. Then you are ready to apply your TruOil stock finish, and then brown the furniture. Apply your beeswax to screw threads to make it easier to turn them in.Some of the furniture came what looks like "pre installed" I'm guessing as part of the manufacturing to ensure a good fit on the inletting...I assume I need to remove those bits and sand them separately then retest fit for what you mentioned here above?

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[Texas by God]

I accidentally discovered years ago that you can "mustard" brass with cold blue. Any body and everyone can have a glossy blue shiny brass muzzleloader; I like mine to look more genuine. My .02!

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[Rich/WIS]

Might want to check out Track of the Wolf, they have a larger selection of products for finishing both the wood and metal.

[yeahbub]

Removing the mill finish from the barrel, I started out with 220 or so and didn't go any finer than 320. Using a file to wrap the emery cloth around will help to prevent rounding corners that should be sharp, like where the sight dovetails meet the top barrel flat and the flats meet each other. You mentioned a concern for defacing the barrel markings by going too deep or being too aggressive, but if the abrasive is backed by something hard and flat, this is very unlikely.
What would barrel Browning do on a mirror? There's a couple of points to address there. One is the surface texture and another is how the browning solution is intended to work. The shinier the steel is, the more of a challenge it can be to get an even brown over all the surfaces without any blotchiness. It won't look like a hereford cow, but getting the same shade everywhere will depend on thorough degreasing, after which it shouldn't be touched with bare hands, and then following the instructions for whichever solution you use. If you want a fine smooth finish with some shine to it, Birchwood Casey Plum Brown is hard to beat. It's an aggressive solution which is used at an elevated temperature, just about hot enough to sizzle water. It's stroked on the hot barrel using the included swab and instantly oxidizes the steel. You'll have to repeatedly re-heat the barrel get the whole thing done, rub down the whole thing with degreased fine steel wool to polish off the loose powdery rust that forms on the surface and then do it again - as often as it takes to get a dark even brown, almost black, taking care not to bear too heavily on the corners with the steel wool or you'll wear the brown off and have shiny steel showing. The downside of a shiny brown job is that the finish is pretty, but not very deep and not so durable. Trappers back in the day were more concerned about durability, so the brown was of a coarser texture and could take the wear of daily use. There are browning solutions and recipes for old-style rust browns which are developed over a couple of days at room temperature in a humid environment, rather than very quickly as with Plum Brown. The steps are very similar but take longer. The last one I did a few years ago was done by wiping on the browning solution and suspending the cool barrel over a bathtub of hot tap water overnight for several nights, rubbing it down with steel wool to remove loose rust, applying the solution and doing it again until I had an even dark brown after a thorough steel wooling. You'll know when it's thick enough by how difficult it is to get through the brown with the steel wool. When you can't get through to bare steel anymore, it's thick enough. A hot water bath to flush acids out of the surface, dry and oil the brown and the job is done - or card the hot barrel with paraffin to melt it in and seal the surface. The porosity of the brown will absorb the paraffin and it'll be truly waterproof. By the way, paraffin or beeswax is also an excellent anti-seize thread filler for breech, nipple and clean-out screw threads. Everyone dry-balls a muzzleloader once in a while and nipple or clean-out screw threads jammed with old fouling and rust like so it's welded in place is a wholly avoidable show-stopper. Anoint those threads while the barrel is hot and screw things in while the wax is liquid and getting them out again is a piece of cake. You needn't ask how I had to figure that out.