MEC 600 slugger

[Taylor]

Is there a reason, other than money. That MEC won't sell spare parts, die sets for the slugger. I have one in 12 ga, but would like a set of 20 ga to swap out on occasion, without having to buy a whole new press.

[Hamish]

Never even been close to a Slugger to see what the difference is, loaded a lot of slugs on a 600 Jr. Wondering if the 20ga parts set off another model wouldn't work?

[Ranch Dog]

You just had to talk about it. I've actually been eyeballing a 600 Slugger vs. a drill press just for the "roll" crimp. So far I'm in two roll crimpers for $45 and a HF drill press (tomorrow) for $120, I'm overhalf way if I return the crimpers and don't buy the drill press.

[Ranch Dog]

You just had to talk about it. I've actually been eyeballing a 600 Slugger vs. a drill press just for the "roll" crimp. So far I'm in two roll crimpers for $45 and a HF drill press (tomorrow) for $120, I'm overhalf way if I return the crimpers and don't buy the drill press.
Heck, must also include the BPI Hull Vise & Spin Doctor, that's another $67!

[megasupermagnum]

You just had to talk about it. I've actually been eyeballing a 600 Slugger vs. a drill press just for the "roll" crimp. So far I'm in two roll crimpers for $45 and a HF drill press (tomorrow) for $120, I'm overhalf way if I return the crimpers and don't buy the drill press.

I ended up buying the vice, I already had a drill press, bought a jig for a hand drill, and I'm sure more. You don't need any of it. If you have a MEC 600Jr., you already have, or need a MEC supersizer. I use the super sizer as the vice, and a hand drill for the roll crimp. I can make better crimps with a hand drill than I can on a drill press. Reasons being I can go a lot slower with the hand drill, and I get better results using feel. Using a stop didn't work well for me. You don't need a spin doctor either. I've got one, but it really doesn't work all that well. I use a fishing bobber, a big catfish style one I already had, and saw another member use the same thing. Any cone shaped object the right size will work. I just push it in until it expands the mouth enough, and it is ready to load. The BPI roll crimpers are OK. I get perfectly acceptable crimps with mine, but once in a while I get one that is crooked. The double roller pin model is the one to buy for 12 gauge.

[Ranch Dog]

Well, I did go off the deep end and bought the Slugger. I've been looking at it for months. I figure that the production is seasonal and that bore some truth as I looked at the various retailers that I had been watching it on. The only one with that was not out of stock was MidwayUSA. I bought it and went back to the product page and it to capture a picture of the press, and saw that I had bought the last one, Midway was out of stock. I figure it was meant to be. I also purchased seven more bushings, a bushing stand, primer feeder, and a bench mount.

I will keep my Load-All II, I think it is a good press, and I need to load BBs for my hog loads. I prefer them over buckshot.

[Blood Trail]

I had the MEC slugger and returned it the same week. I think the reason they won’t sell parts is because it would be super easy to convert you old 600 jr over.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jmort]

Just watched a video from MEC on the Slugger
Sure makes a nice looking roll crimp
After watcing it, I wonder why anyone wastes time with roll crimping tools.

[longbow]

What is the difference between the Slugger and a standard MEC 600 Jr.? From what I can tell from reading it is just the different crimp dies but they sure jack up the cost for that. If I could buy the conversion kit (for a reasonable cost anyway) I'd try it just to see but really using my Sizemaster and then roll crimping works pretty well.

My Sizemaster cost me $150.00 CDN used but with extra "stuff" and a Universal charge bar and I got my 600 Jr. for $25.00 CDN also with extras and a Universal charge bar. Good deals both and both in perfect shape. A guy can't complain about that!

I love the Sizemaster!

Longbow

[Ranch Dog]

Just watched a video from MEC on the Slugger
Sure makes a nice looking roll crimp
After watcing it, I wonder why anyone wastes time with roll crimping tools.
Exactly, my only interest in shotshell loading is 12G slugs and BBs for hogs. No birds here to hunt.

[Ranch Dog]

Also, I enjoy reloading equipment. What's another press in this room.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/Room/benches_090318.jpg

The Load-All II is on a bench to the right, out of view. I'm thinking about mounting Slugger, the bench mount, on the free standing pedestal that the vise is on. If the vice can be adapated to the mount, I will buy another so I can switch them out.

[jmort]

I have two Sizemasters
I have two Lee Load-Alls. One is an Aluimum base.
I think I "need"/want a Slugger now that I have seen what it can do.
It makes beautiful roll crimps
Will sell my roll crimping tools and it will be of little cost

[RMc]

... load BBs for my hog loads. I prefer them over buckshot.

Can you tell us more about your choice of BBs for hog loads?

[Blood Trail]

The problem with the Slugger is you have to keep the same slug recipe, components and all, or keep adjusting for each different type You reload. I wasn’t at all impressed with the crimps in person or in the vid I seen.

I only had mine a week, but during that time wasted about 50-75 hulls trying to get a decent crimp.

If anyone figured it out, please share pics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ranch Dog]

Can you tell us more about your choice of BBs for hog loads?
Sure can. My shotgun hog hunting is always at night, 90% of it, shooting hogs under a feeder light. In that the hogs are between the feeder legs, I've seen buckshot knock a leg out from under the feeder. I've had BB hits, but the scoot right around the leg. When a sounder is tight under feeder, I expect to kill three to five with the first shot. After the shot, it sure is a lot easier to hit one on the fly with BBs. What is surprizing is that at 35-yards out, every BB will remain within the legs. It is absolutely devistating. I made the switch from BBs back in 1979, then we were baiting crossfences heavy with corn and would stay out all night with no lights. Much easier to secure kills with BBs.

[RMc]

Sure can. My shotgun hog hunting is always at night, 90% of it, shooting hogs under a feeder light. In that the hogs are between the feeder legs, I've seen buckshot knock a leg out from under the feeder. I've had BB hits, but the scoot right around the leg. When a sounder is tight under feeder, I expect to kill three to five with the first shot. After the shot, it sure is a lot easier to hit one on the fly with BBs. What is surprizing is that at 35-yards out, every BB will remain within the legs. It is absolutely devistating. I made the switch from BBs back in 1979, then we were baiting crossfences heavy with corn and would stay out all night with no lights. Much easier to secure kills with BBs.

So you focus on close in head shots?

[Ranch Dog]

So you focus on close in head shots?
Nope. At 35-yards, slightly high on the center of the group confined under the feeder legs. All the hogs have their heads down trying to outfeed each other and headshots are a low percentage kill at night even with rifles. The kills typically come from spine hits. Hard to believe, but I've had a single BB kill a large hog immediately when hit.

231638

Typical kill, from one shotshell.

[pashiner]

Wow! I never thought a BB would do that kind of damage to hogs. Of course at 4000fps, just about anything is deadly! Lol. What kind of velocities are you loading them to?

[Ranch Dog]

Wow! I never thought a BB would do that kind of damage to hogs. Of course at 4000fps, just about anything is deadly! Lol. What kind of velocities are you loading them to?
I'm not sure. When I started this type of hunting in 1979, I bought a 1K round case of 2¾" Rem Express BBs, and I'm down to three shells. I've used them very judiciously, I've probably shot less than 5 to check the shot pattern, and I've never pulled the trigger unless I'm confident that at least one hog will drop. Last year at this time, I started to look for another case of BBs and was surprised to see that they are almost unobtainable, now package in five-round boxes for self defense. F'ing zombie shooters. Heck, I walked into a hardware store in Hondo, TX and bought that case as everyone was using BBs on hogs. I also found that lead BBs are tough to find, now nickel plated or steel, and they are not cheap.

I do understand the niche that BBs hold when you use them as I have, that is what you will find if you come knocking at my door in the dead of night. I would hate to have a handgun against someone with a 12-Gauge and a heavy load of BBs. I'd rather face an opponent using buckshot; you are doomed with BBs. Anyway, the slugs for hunting have held up the BB loads, but once the Slugger is set up, I will start working with the Load-All on the BB loads. I have about 80% of the hulls from that original case. I've always tried to recover them as I've been in pastures with cattle.

If the Oasis Shot Maker could drip BBs, I would have already bought it.

[Ranch Dog]

Dang it, Slugger didn't show up today. Its coming UPS/USPS and at least our small town still has Saturday mail and employees that care.

[RMc]

Field Grade Remington Lead BB shot is still avaiable in 25 lb. bags.

https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=RM&i=S23870

The old Remington 2.75" Express loads held roughly 62 pellets in a 1.25 ounce payload. The nominal .18" pellets weighing approximately 8.8 grains each.

Edit: "Remington field grade shot contains 2% antimony."

This antimony level is not sufficiently high to harden shot or buckshot with heat treating.

[gpidaho]

I found a "vintage" C&H Loadmaster shotshell press. While it doesn't have the roll crimp feature it has interesting dies. There is both 12 and 20ga crimp stations and no pre-crimp is required. I loaded up 30+ 20ga. Lyman sabot slugs this morning and all the crimps set very nice. Great slug press for $35. Gp

[Ranch Dog]

Field Grade Remington Lead BB shot is still avaiable in 25 lb. bags.

https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=RM&i=S23870
1
The old Remington 2.75" Express loads held roughly 62 pellets in a 1.25 ounce payload. The nominal .18" pellets weighing approximately 8.8 grains each.
Thanks! The wads are Power Pistons (R12H). I would love to know what was used for both powder and the charge. Don't want to dissect any one of the remaining three. That would seem sacrilegious, all three need to be applied to hogs.

[W.R.Buchanan]

My gawd they really aren't giving that BB shot away are they? $77 a bag of 25 lbs =.24 per round at 1 1/4 oz each .21 ea at 1 1/8 oz.

With powder, a wad and a primer you are around .30-.33 per round which isn't too bad for a load like this.

On a slightly different note: I did my first Roll Crimp tonight. I just used the BPI single tooth roller and it did OK. It was a once shot Fiocchi Hull that had a star crimp and I trimmed it down about half way down the previous crimp and then went after it with my cordless drill trying different speeds until I got something that looked like it might be close.

The BPI Crimper I have only has one roll pin put in at an angle across the slot. I thought it had a roller that actually turned? No it has a roll pin that is pressed in.

I have to say I can do better.

Seems like 3-4 or 6 pins would do a better job, and also actually deburring the drilled hole before they stuck the roll pin in might make them work better.

I did like that the tool tapers the front edge of the hull so it will feed better. My DL 366 does this also, but it doesn't do a Roll Crimp and the STI Sabot Slugs need a Roll Crimp.

Will the Slugger Roll Crimp previously star crimped hulls?

+6666666666+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +

This is what happens when cats type.

Randy

[gpidaho]

Randy: Be on the look out for a Lyman roll crimp tool. They have six pins. I have both the one and two pin BPI roll crimp tools, and my Lyman tool works best. Gp

[W.R.Buchanan]

That's what I figured.

I look on ebay

Randy

[RMc]

My gawd they really aren't giving that BB shot away are they? $77 a bag of 25 lbs =.24 per round at 1 1/4 oz each .21 ea at 1 1/8 oz.

With powder, a wad and a primer you are around .30-.33 per round which isn't too bad for a load like this.

Randy

Remington BB Field shot is listed as a 2% antimony shot.

Ballistic Products Buckshot line includes BB size with a higher antimony content - variously listed in the past at 3% to 4% antimony content.

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Super-Buck-Lead-BB-8-lb_jar-180/productinfo/SBK2B/

Precision Reloading also offers lead BB with electroplated nickel over field grade shot.

https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=SH&i=NPBB

They are not giving those away either!

As far as factory Lead or plated lead BB loads,
Hornady Heavy Magnum Coyote and Winchester Varmit X are about the only game in town.

[Ranch Dog]

Will the Slugger Roll Crimp previously star crimped hulls?
It is supposed to, and I've seen it completing that work in videos. I'm going to add the Creative Reloading Solutions 600 Ultimate KnockOUT (http://creativereloadingsolutions.com/product-category/creativeloading/). I'm just waiting on the press to see which one I need. Speaking of that, I just received a notice from MidwayUSA that the Slugger is at my Post Office waiting for pickup!

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/CRS/images/600_ulimate_knock_out.jpg

The 600UKO is inside the sizer and the primer punch is threaded into the end of the tool.

[dsh1106]

That's what I figured.

I look on ebay

Randy
Randy

PM me, I'll hook you up with a Lyman roll crimper. I believe I have another spare.


Scott

[EMC45]

I have an ollllllddd MEC Supersizer that was given to me by someone off The High Road site. He was throwing it out so I paid shipping to get it in. It loads bird, buck and slug really well with a standard crimp. I like it a lot. I do have the BPI roll crimpers too. I am just now getting them going with the .410. It seems to work ok. Also have a Load All 2 in 20ga. What a cool machine! Had I known how good these things worked I would have bought one decades ago. I am almost tempted to retire my second hand MEC and buy a Load All 2 in 12ga.

I watched the Slugger video and it looked impressive, but I get good results how I do it now. I also was curious why there is about an inch of dead space in the shell?....

[Ranch Dog]

I have an ollllllddd MEC Supersizer that was given to me by someone off The High Road site. He was throwing it out so I paid shipping to get it in. It loads bird, buck and slug really well with a standard crimp. I like it a lot. I do have the BPI roll crimpers too. I am just now getting them going with the .410. It seems to work ok. Also have a Load All 2 in 20ga. What a cool machine! Had I known how good these things worked I would have bought one decades ago. I am almost tempted to retire my second hand MEC and buy a Load All 2 in 12ga.

I watched the Slugger video and it looked impressive, but I get good results how I do it now. I also was curious why there is about an inch of dead space in the shell?....
Because the guy didn't have a CRS Handy Trimmer to trim the excessive length off before he ran it through the press.

What I don't like about the BPI crimper, besides just a sloppy crimp, is that I did not have one reusable hull after the shot. The mouth of the hull is absolutely destroyed.

Got the Slugger late today, its on the bench, but I decided to call it a night.

[megasupermagnum]

Because the guy didn't have a CRS Handy Trimmer to trim the excessive length off before he ran it through the press.

What I don't like about the BPI crimper, besides just a sloppy crimp, is that I did not have one reusable hull after the shot. The mouth of the hull is absolutely destroyed.

Got the Slugger late today, its on the bench, but I decided to call it a night.

If that is the case, you almost certainly were spinning the tool too fast.

[Ranch Dog]

If that is the case, you almost certainly were spinning the tool too fast.
Yeah, so be it. Don't have to worry about that anymore.

[EMC45]

My only beef with roll crimping .410s is the cases are scorched and torched (ruined) after shooting them with H110.

[Ranch Dog]

...Also have a Load All 2 in 20ga. What a cool machine! Had I known how good these things worked I would have bought one decades ago. I am almost tempted to retire my second hand MEC and buy a Load All 2 in 12ga.
I have to agree, even looking at the Slugger, I think the Load-All II is an awesome press. Since looking at the MEC Slugger...

https://leeprecision.com/images/P/LoadAllConversionKit.jpg

... it would be very easy for Lee Precision to introduce a roll crimp similar to the method the Slugger uses. The three crimping stations on the existing design, two-star crimp starters, and the fold (on the left side of Lee's image), become the three steps used for the "rolling fold." There is absolutely nothing magical about the MEC Slugger dies and I suspect they are molded from the same material the Lee is using. That might be wrong as Lee's are a lot slicker and the MEC a bit rough.

How awesome would that be? The MSRP is $26, you could have both and switch back and forth as need.

[Ranch Dog]

My Slugger loading is on hold. I could never get past the first crimping die without crushing the hull. If the hull avoided the crush, the mouth of the hull would start to fold but slide past the punch, getting caught behind it. All the die adjustments were loose as well as the cam, so I really didn't know where to start to resolve this as "base" set up instructions are not available. I used a factory 2¾" sabot slug to adjust the second and third crimp stations, but could not resolve the issue with the first stage of crimping.

I was not able to call MEC until yesterday morning. They don't mess around, they want my press back, and a new one is already the way. The replacement will not be here until next Monday. I have hogs that need killing, but I'm going to let them be as I want to use the STI saboted Hammerheads as loaded on this press.

This is my first experience with MEC, I'm impressed!

[jsizemore]

MEC customer service has always been great to help resolve any issues I've had. They have even prompted me to do other checks to confirm the loaders reliability. GREAT folks.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Come on Mike, those hogs won't know the difference which machine loaded the slugs. Load-all, Load-all go go go.

Randy.

[Ranch Dog]

Come on Mike, those hogs won't know the difference which machine loaded the slugs. Load-all, Load-all go go go.
True enough, they are active but the next two nights won't work as we are supposed to have winds up to 50 mph. That's going to tear something up so I will probably be on the tractor with grappling claws moving downed trees off roads for a day or two. It might also affect the hogs patterns for a little bit.

In your roll crimp topic, you mentioned that you would get a good look at the Slugger during the shot show. I thought that I would take a picture of the first two dies so that you could see just how easy it works.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/MEC/slugger/images/crimp_forming.jpg

It is crazy how simple it is. There are three crimp stations; I believe the first crimp station is simply the final crimp station of the standard star crimping 600. I say 'I believe" as I don't own one. The die body starts the roll, and a floating punch lays the fold horizontal. The second crimp die rolls the crimp over. The fold is caught between the die body and the "cup." It appears that the shape of the inside of the top of the die allows the hull to continue to roll until the leading edge of the roll meets the slug or sabot. There is room, there is plenty of "float" or die adjustment to accommodate any need. The final crimp die, not shown is simply tightens the fold with a slight inward roll, a crimp actually, to facilitate hull feeder. The MEC design is ingenious!

My problem was with the first crimp die. I'm not sure what's wrong, but in thinking about it since the conversation, I think there might be a 20 Gauge punch in my 12 Gauge die. That is a guess on my part but I as I have no experience. All I know is that MEC didn't feel I should have to deal with it and handled it.

I have 410 hulls sacked up all over the place. Based on this specific experience, there will be another 600 sitting on the bench as soon as the budget allows.

[Ranch Dog]

Check this out, Randy.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/MEC/slugger/images/slugger_workaround.jpg

Typing that previous reply caused me to think about using the Lee Load-All II to start the crimp so that the second and third MEC crimp dies could do their work. It wasn't perfect, the innards of the MEC first crimp die does it without scoring the hull for the folds, but the MEC did its thing from there!

As a note, I did not trim the hull down any, just started with a fresh 2¾" hull. It could be trimmed down about .1" with that fancy Handy Trimmer I just bought, and it would have rolled it on down! I will probably pull the trigger on this one, just to see how the fold looks after the shot.

[Ranch Dog]

Holy smokes, the spent hull is better than I expected! I hit what I was aiming at, and the spent hull is perfect. I won't have to condition the hull to accept a wad or sabot, won't even need a wad guide. I wish I had done this when I first considered the Slugger. When you consider the tools I've bought and the wasted hulls, I already paid for the Slugger. I'm going to box up everything else and put it on ebay pronto.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/MEC/slugger/images/slugger_after_shot.jpg

[RMc]

The original Lee Shotshell Loader used a variation of the same direct press method to apply a "roll turn over" crimp as the MEC Slugger. The Lee system worked well for paper hulls, but lacked the leverage needed to apply an RTO crimp to plastic hulls.

See post #3 in the following thread:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?189173-Lee-Loader-instructions

[Ranch Dog]

Thanks, RMc!

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/Lee/loaders/images/12gauge.jpg

I have a 3" 12 Gauge kit that I haven't used much as a majority of my effort has been with 2¾ hulls. I would be interesting to see how well the roll crimp effort works with my K&M Arbor press. I will give a report back.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Here's a pic of my earlier Lee Loader

Randy

[RMc]

The Classic Lee Shotshell Loader, in 12 and 20 gauge, is still a valued adjunct to my shotshell handloading bench.

- The shot dippers are the perfect size for dipping proper Black Powder charges for cartridges otherwise assembled on a shotshell loading press. Loaded in my favored 12 gauge Federal Paper hulls as an obvious indentifier.

- The bevel function of the 2 3/4" sizer/crimp die does a beautiful job of increasing the crimp radius after separate roll crimping is completed on 2.75" or 3" loads. Using a Rockchucker press with an old loading die inserted as a stop, insert the finished roll crimp shotshell into the lee die and use the press ram,* (w/o a shell holder), to press the shotshell into the Lee die. Lower the ram and remove the Lee die and eject the roll crimped shell - now sporting an exceptionally well beveled radius.

Talk about smooth feeding shotshells!

* The center of the ram is open so there is no possibility of primer ignition.

[W.R.Buchanan]

RMc: Most people aren't aware of the reason for loading Federal Paper Hulls.

It is simple really.

They smell better when you fire them.

NO ship!

Randy

[RMc]

RMc: Most people aren't aware of the reason for loading Federal Paper Hulls.

It is simple really.

They smell better when you fire them.

NO ship!

Randy

With my loads, fired Federal paper hulls have a "delightful" hint of sulfur!

[W.R.Buchanan]

gotta love the smell of gunpowder in the morning!

Randy

[Ranch Dog]

Bummer, UPS never showed. So, maybe Monday.

[wildflilghts]

Thanks! The wads are Power Pistons (R12H). I would love to know what was used for both powder and the charge. Don't want to dissect any one of the remaining three. That would seem sacrilegious, all three need to be applied to hogs.

You could candle the original load. It would tell you how tall the shot column is and then you'd be able to duplicate the weight of the payload. Just a thought.

[Ranch Dog]

Heck of a deal on a 20 Gauge Slugger. It closes in 50 minutes.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/787565039

[W.R.Buchanan]

Too bad it's a 20 ga. If it was 12 ga. I'd snag it in a minute. I really need it cuz I only have about 14 different ways to load 12 ga right now and could go to 15 easily.

Randy

[Ranch Dog]

Life has been good with the Slugger, just been too busy with the holidays to report plus this retired guy was offered a heck of a part-time job doing something that he really likes. Anyway, the hogs moved on, so I have not felt the immediate need to worry about that.

You had asked about whether the press could be used with once fired star crimp hulls and the short answer is; yes it can, both as stated in the minimum amount of instructions provided and in practice. Once fired hulls are no problem, but multiple times star crimp hulls would be questionable. I've done both. In the various, but not many videos out there, you will notice that as the loading of various projectiles is demonstrated, the press delivers a deep "roll" (not sure what is should be called as a looks like it is a roll, but it is more of a fold). The reason for the deep seat is that they are running the press, across the various loads, without adjusting the dies to minimize the "roll." Where I have had a problem with the multiple fired hulls is when the roll/fold base, the point the hull is going to start over, is within the star crimp. I've run into this primarily when I've trimmed a case to eliminate the depth of the roll/fold. In this case, the hull collapses in the area of the star crimp. Again, this has been with hulls that have been star crimped a multiple of times. I've also seen the issue with what has been cheap ammo. The plastic is very thin, and it just cannot be used again.

As a note, I have found that the length of the roll/fold, the space from the overall length of the component stack to the overall length of the hull, just doesn't matter. When the hull is shot, it looks like it is full length resized with no evidence of any kind of crimp. Prettiest fired hull you will look at. As a note, I did install the Creative Reloading Solution Ultimate Knockout on my press, and it does a much better job of ironing out the plastic than the MEC KO. I also have learned that if you use three cycles on the hull on the second crimp station (actual station is #5), it will ironout most of the star.

In the picture below, let's look at the once fired Rem Game Load on the right first. Notice the length of the fold, it's deep, but my suggestion is to take the win with the base adjustment (2¾" HOAL), and let the shot iron out the hull, as the length does not hurt the shot performance. You can also see how thin the hull's plastic is as all the features of the STI sabot can be seen.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/MEC/slugger/images/trim_adjust_&_once_fired.jpg

The new Cheddite on the left is a demonstration of measureing where the fold fails when trying to reduce the amount of space between meplat and the HOAL. I believe that I ended up trimming .33" of the hull, and it folded in nice and tight. As I noted, I think I'm over this and will just shoot them the full length, but time will tell. The Creative Reloading Solutions Handy-Hull Trimmer does make the detailed trimming very easy, but with the little bit of shooting I've done, I'm not sure it matters. Leaving the hulls full length allows a lot of utility down the road.

As a note, the "base" settings of the three crimp dies delivers this. You can adjust this to about anything in reason, I haven't gone very far.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/SAAMI/SAAMI_275_slug.jpg

Pros and cons?

The cons: The cost of a dedicated press. The instructions, they completely suck. The 600 Mark V instructions are included. Nothing is detailed on the most important aspect of the press, the three crimp dies. A single sheet of trouble shooting tips is included, it is completely inadequate.The pros: If you are starting from zero, you will probably spend this much on the tools necessary to provide a suitable roll crimp that is precise from one hull to the next. The crimp delivers a fresh, reusuable hull. I cannot say that for any roll crimp hull I've produced and I'm still waiting to see the fired hulls in the other topic on this subject.

[Ginsing]

Ranch Dog:
I'm interested in one of these presses. If you could clear a few things up for me.
Is the location of the fold adjusted by raising or lowering the first crimp die? Will it crimp at that location regardless of load column hight?
From your pictures it looks like it will press the lip of the hull over the top of the slug if your column hight is high.
I'm just trying to figure out how much adjusting I will have to do with the dies. I load flat nose slugs, round nose slugs, round balls and the Russian Italian slug and hoping I will only need minimal die adjustments when switching loads. All my loads are very close it the same overall load column hight.
This press would be a godsend for me as I will be able to see what I have loaded without having to write on the side of the hull. Also I havnt had very good luck with roll crimping. Where I live the only hulls available are star crimped hulls and roll crimping those are a challenge.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Mike: Is the length of the crimp fold @1/2 the length of the unfolded length after the slug is seated and before it is crimped?

Wouldn't trimming the hull back decrease the amount of dead space in front of the slug?

The trimmer I got from BPI takes about 1/4" off the hull which removes about 85-90% of the previous fold crimp on the AA hulls I'm using.

This leaves @ 1/4" to roll crimp and so far they come out looking just about perfect.

I don't see how the dies would know how long the crimp is. I'd think it would be completely contingent of the amount of hull left in front of the slug to fold over.

Randy

[Ranch Dog]

I will get with you guys a bit later this evening. All three crimp dies are adjustable, a pretty good range plus I think the "Short Kit" will take it down to less. I found a kit at Wholesale Hunter for $27 so I bought it just to see what it does. In the mean time, here are the only two sources of troubleshooting tips with the slugger... pretty durn poor given the cost of the press.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/MEC/slugger/images/Troubleshooting.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/embed/KqPfLSdbMBs

[gpidaho]

Hello All: If any of you are in on the bidding for the Mec 20ga. slug press being offered over at Gun Broker PM me. I don't want to run the price up on my Boolit friends but might put in one more bid if it's not one of you guys. It's not that important to me but as things stand it's $100 less than the ones being offered at Midway. Gp

[jmort]

If there was a 12 guage conversion kit, I would have bought it when it was last up. Seems like zero takers, so if you are a 20 gauge guy, the path should be clear.
Good Luck

[Ranch Dog]

Now that I've had all the dies apart and understood how they work, I'm getting the hang of this thing. The wide meplat of the Hammerhead is a bit of a problem but I've learned a there can be a small amount (.1") resting on the slug and the 2nd crimp die will fold it down. A fellow, not on this forum, reminded me that this is neither a fold nor a roll, but rather it's own hybrid finish so if I had any 078 Lightning wads, to go back and try the Lee slug. I happened to have the wads, and if they shoot as good as they look, it would be great.

This evening I trimmed some 3" once fired hulls that had been previously loaded with a six-star crimp. You can see the segments of the star, a fresh hull would not have the marks.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/MEC/slugger/images/STI&Lee.jpg

I think I have a handle on how to set up the hulls for a nice close crimp that does not require any of the dies to be adjusted. I'm pleased with math, just finished it up this evening. It does require the ability to trim your hulls to an exact length and the only tool that I've found that can do it is Creative Reloading Solutions' Perfect Crimp Trimmer. Elsewhere in this topic I mistakenly called it the Handi-Trimmer. This would require that the hulls be separated by the load, the only other way to deal with different loads would be to accept a deeper length to meplat or adjust the dies. The later would be a PITA as you will consume hulls in the adjustment process. The lazy way is the deeper seating of some loads, but I'm going to go ahead with keeping the hulls separated to their loads. Here is the explanation in pictures. A difference in hull lengths for the STI and Lee Loads but I did not adjust the press at all, just cranked them out.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/MEC/slugger/images/Hull_length_adjustment_01_deloader.jpg

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/MEC/slugger/images/Hull_length_adjustment_02_charge.jpg

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/MEC/slugger/images/Hull_length_adjustment_03_lip_to_meplat.jpg

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/MEC/slugger/images/Hull_length_adjustment_04_stack_length.jpg

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/MEC/slugger/images/Hull_length_adjustment_05_hull%20length.jpg

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/MEC/slugger/images/Hull_length_adjustment_06_perfect_crimp.jpg

[Ranch Dog]

If there was a 12 guage conversion kit, I would have bought it when it was last up. Seems like zero takers, so if you are a 20 gauge guy, the path should be clear.
Good Luck
I considered it, but there are no older 20 Gauge bolt guns. I don't want to buy the Savage, and I'm not interested in any other action.

[gpidaho]

I gave it one last try but the price is getting too close to retail. Somebody needs it more than I do and that's okay I have way more presses than I NEED LOL Gp

[Ginsing]

Ranch Dog
Thank you very much for that detailed explanation.
Seems like it will work well for a variety of loads by just adjusting load column hight. It may take some die adjustments on loads where column hight is not variable. I'm hoping to get this to work with the Svarog Italian slug. This slug has a meplat to collar length of .345"
I guess I will have some playing around to do when and if I get this press.
If the slugger starts it's fold in the same spot as a star crimp starts it will be almost perfect for the load hight I have.

[Faret]

Ranch Dog got any pics of those dies when you had them apart?

[Ranch Dog]

Just these. Really, not much to them.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/MEC/slugger/images/crimp_forming.jpg

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/MEC/slugger/images/crimp_stations.jpg

[Ranch Dog]

Got around to shooting the Lee one ounce slugs that were loaded with the Slugger. A majority of these were a bit rough as I was adjusting the dies. The bottom line is that they shot so good that I need to work back through them using the Slugger. I shot a 5½" group with these "seconds" at 100-yards. Nothing weird about the group, no fliers, plus the wind across the range was gusting from 5 to 20 mph.

So, maybe there is something to this rolled fold. The picture of the ammo is a couple of posts above. Cheddite 2¾" primed hull trimmed to 2.740" 38-grains of Longshot (3.05cc) BPI Lightning 078 20 Gauge card wad behind the slug

When I shot these wads with at six-star folded crimp, they did not survive the trip down the barrel. The petals were completely worn off. No so with the MEC's rolled flood.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/lee_designs/slugs/images/BPI_Lightning_078.jpg

Despite the gusting crosswind, all the pressure wads were dumped about 35-yards down range in a very tight elongated oval (wind), all of the petals intact and showing very positive groove contact.

I will be in the nearest city this week and hope to find some other powders to try. I would like to add Blue Dot and Steel if I can find it.

[Blood Trail]

Got around to shooting the Lee one ounce slugs that were loaded with the Slugger. A majority of these were a bit rough as I was adjusting the dies. The bottom line is that they shot so good that I need to work back through them using the Slugger. I shot a 5½" group with these "seconds" at 100-yards. Nothing weird about the group, no fliers, plus the wind across the range was gusting from 5 to 20 mph.

So, maybe there is something to this rolled fold. The picture of the ammo is a couple of posts above. Cheddite 2¾" primed hull trimmed to 2.740" 38-grains of Longshot (3.05cc) BPI Lightning 078 20 Gauge card wad behind the slug

When I shot these wads with at six-star folded crimp, they did not survive the trip down the barrel. The petals were completely worn off. No so with the MEC's rolled flood.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/lee_designs/slugs/images/BPI_Lightning_078.jpg

Despite the gusting crosswind, all the pressure wads were dumped about 35-yards down range in a very tight elongated oval (wind), all of the petals intact and showing very positive groove contact.

I will be in the nearest city this week and hope to find some other powders to try. I would like to add Blue Dot and Steel if I can find it.

Pm sent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hogtamer]

5" is as good or better than I've ever seen with the lee 1 oz. Big hat tip!

[Ranch Dog]

Also, for grins, I had loaded some of the NOE Lyman clone (690-500-HB) with the MEC Slugger using some once fired Remington low base dove hulls. The NOEs where seated in Claybuster CB113812 pressure wads (WAA12R clones). So two clones that are a great fit for each other. I didn't fill the base of the slug; this was just about seeing how the Slugger handled another setup without any die adjustment.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/NOE/680-500-HB_CE1/680-500-HB_CE1_MEC_01.jpg

I've worked with these hulls for a bit, and they don't lend themselves to reloads as the eight-star crimp cuts the thin plastic. The first through the Sluggers crimping stations is on the far left, the lip of the hull had not been folded down enough to reach the edge of the wad, but about a ⅛" cam adjustment "up slot," closed that gap. The hulls on the right, are the same as those on the left, nice and ironed out. As a note, I had shot these hulls with a roll crimp, and they all had to be discarded as they were split at each of the segments of the star. I suspect the heat/friction had made the segments too thin.

I shot these out of my New Haven 600, another clone, with a 24" rifled barrel with open sights. I had waited until the wind went still in the evening and then pulled the trigger on the loaded hulls sending six of them down range 50 yards.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/NOE/680-500-HB_CE1/680-500-HB_CE1_MEC_50YDS.jpg

Probably not impressive to you, but to me, it is as my eyes cannot see the rear sight, not at all. It is just a fuzzy block on my end of the barrel. I lowered the front sight, which I can see fine until it drops into the fuzz. So I got three spots where two slugs went through the same holes. That is some kind of weird.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/NH600/images/600_rifled-sight_barrel_01.jpg

I didn't think about it, but I have the Williams dovetailed WGRS on several scout rifles. I'm going to remove one today; it should slide right in the dovetail the rear sight occupies.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/10FCM/images/WGRS_ghost_ring.jpg

I had not filled the base on the NOE 680-500, and the wads were gone, eaten up. But they must have lasted long enough to get the slug out of the barrel and spinning to keep them on centerline at 50-yards. Notice that not only are the petals gone, but so is the powder cup. I did pick up all six of the spent wads; they were identical.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/NOE/680-500-HB_CE1/components/CB113812d_after_shot.jpg

I don't think that I will bother filling the base whenever I come back to this slug design as I don't think solves the wad issue. My problem with the design is the thin front band. My belief is that wad problems start as soon as the pressure wad hits the forcing cone. I believe that the petals, off of any wad, slip off front band and collapse into the the shutllecock's immediate diameter reduction. I pondered this a bit and figured I could demonstrate it with a mouse trap. Sure enough it did.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/NOE/680-500-HB_CE1/components/CB113812d_nooski.jpg

As the wad hits the forcing cone, there is no way petals are going to stay with the thin front band. I think if you are going to fill the base, you need to fill the airspace between the front and rear bands. Maybe to 3D printed halves taped together like the Lightfield use.

I will change the rear sight and give some more a try in the next couple of weeks.

Oh, almost forgot! Nooski makes an awesome mouse and rat trap. Not only does it "noose" them it knocks them out of the trap so their running mates don't smell dead vermin in the trap. If you have these fellows, you can get them all in short order as they will keep entering the trap.

[pashiner]

Interesting theory, ranchdog! An easy proof of concept might be to fill the space between the "waist" of the slug and the wad with some kind of granulated buffer or even lube. Anything to provide support for the wad petals might help the wads stay intact the whole trip down the barrel.

[Hogtamer]

Rd you are wrong about filling the slug base , especially with those soft wads. Try it using hot glue, overfill then trim. Your photo tells the story perfectly regardless of what happens to the petals. I would suggest at least one card under the slug as well to raise it to the top of the wad. Then it would be perfect for a thin overshot card (the BPI frangible clear plastic disc are terrific for this). It appears that you could just fold crimp with the height of that wad to obtain a more consistent crimp fro pressure purposes. Nice windage on all those shots, I get the vision scenario!

[Scrumbag]

Sorry if resurrecting an old thread. I have a 12g slugger arriving this week. My first foray into shotgun reloading. Plan is Cervo / Thug Slugs for range work and Gualandi Borra for hunting. Help and advice gratefully received.

Scrummy

[Blood Trail]

Sorry if resurrecting an old thread. I have a 12g slugger arriving this week. My first foray into shotgun reloading. Plan is Cervo / Thug Slugs for range work and Gualandi Borra for hunting. Help and advice gratefully received.

Scrummy

What I’ve found is a roll crimp does a better job. If you’re only reloading one or types of slugs, it’s good. If not, you have to keep setting it up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mtgrs737]

I too am just getting into loading slugs and buckshot in 12 ga. I have a lot to learn on slugs and have been enjoying the posts here. Yesterday I cast some Lyman Foster type slugs and some Lee key Drive slugs to start with. I was disappointed to see that the Foster slug did not measure to full bore diameter. After powder coating they are about .705" max. Lots of experimenting to do before I learn enough to post results and the holidays are all but upon us so that puts it off a bit. Merry Christmas to all here!

[Scrumbag]

I too am just getting into loading slugs and buckshot in 12 ga. I have a lot to learn on slugs and have been enjoying the posts here. Yesterday I cast some Lyman Foster type slugs and some Lee key Drive slugs to start with. I was disappointed to see that the Foster slug did not measure to full bore diameter. After powder coating they are about .705" max. Lots of experimenting to do before I learn enough to post results and the holidays are all but upon us so that puts it off a bit. Merry Christmas to all here!

Ah yes, as I understand it the Lee and the Foster are really meant to have a shot cup to seal the bore rather than rely on the slug itself to do it.

Scrummy

[longbow]

In my expeience the Lyman Foster slug is a lost cause. Mine cast at 0.705" so way undersize for the standard 12 ga. bore. If cast from soft lead they slug up to fill the bore but do so unevenly. Slugs recovered from deep soft snow told that tale.

I have been told that using a very solid wad column with a copper washer on top can provide even obturation and good accuracy but I have not been able to get any better than about 8" groups at 50 yards from my Browning BPS with I/C slug and buck barrel. I started with Lyman recipes for that slug and worked my way to the solid wad column with copper washer without success. I get better accuracy from round balls.

I also tried paper patching the slugs up to bore diameter which helped but I got frequent fliers, likely due to paper patch tearing while opening the crimp or maybe not leaving the slugs consistently.

Blood Trail tried using heat shrink tubing and if memory serves got decent results. Personally I think there are better slug designs available so I don't use the Foster mould at all anymore.

YMMV

Longbow

[Agronomist_at_ia]

Great thread guys. I bought both the 12 & 20 slugger

[Agronomist_at_ia]

308479

Here are some federal top gun hulls done on the slugger with Lyman 525 pellet

[Newtire]

The Precision roll crimping head is the one you want. It makes a nice rounded edge and beats that BPI single pin job hands down.