Siamese Mauser

[richhodg66]

Went to a local small town gun show yesterday with #1 son. It's always a very small show, but what is there is interesting to a guy like me.

One of my son's co workers, a guy about my age who I never met before had a table there, and among the things he had was what appeared to be a pristine one of these in all original condition. I've been a gun show rat all my life and can't remember seeing one that hadn't been converted in some way, usually to .45-70.

Are these good shooters? How complicated is it to load that 8x52R cartridge?

[303Guy]

Apparently you can make cases out of 45/70 brass.
I made cases out of 45/70 brass.
https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?336151-Help-needed-reloading-8x52R-T-66-siamese-mauser-ammo

[richhodg66]

I saw that, but got to thinking that brass may be easily formed from the 8x56 Hungarian which has become plentiful with the recnt imports of those rifles.

[bouncer50]

Yes you can make brass from 45/70 the trouble is your bore is not 8mm 323 it more to 330 bullet size. At one time I thought about reloading for my like new one. But the cost of dies and trimming down the rim to fit the bolt. It would cost more then I paid for the rifle. Another thing they made two different cases one 8x50 and 8x52. If your rear sight has been trim down then you have a 8x52. If you have a german made receiver it really rare. Most of them were made in Japan with great steel for its days. A lot of them were rebarrel to 45/70 also 303 british 7.62 Russian 348 Winchester. The best is the 45/70 you can load hot like a poor man 458 mag.

[richhodg66]

Oversize sn't a problem anymore. With all the Hungarian Manlicchers imported recently, Lee has seen fit to market that 205 grain .330 bullet and .329 sizers.

[CA Dude]

I just fire formed some from the 8x56 Hungarian. There was some swelling near the rim but it didn't look any worse than I have seen from a 303 British or the 7.62x54R fire in military rifles. I think I will be able to used them. I think that will be easier than using 45-70 brass.

[bouncer50]

Oversize sn't a problem anymore. With all the Hungarian Manlicchers imported recently, Lee has seen fit to market that 205 grain .330 bullet and .329 sizers. Us sir you are correct with 330 size bullets now a days. But you still have to ask yourself is it still cheaper then you have to buy every thing to reload for it then the average cost of the rifle. Guys who have reloaded for them said 4 to 6 average groups at 100 yards. The first one I bought was like new. My plans was to build a 45/70 out of it. The more I looked at the rifle it was to nice to chop it out. Then I bought 4 complete actions. One I am planning to build a 45/70 and a 450 Alaskan and a 50 caliber Alaskan both of these cases are 348 Winchester neck up.

[reivertom]

I'd rather have the 45-70 version.....but I probably wouldn't do it myself to an original.

[richhodg66]

Us sir you are correct with 330 size bullets now a days. But you still have to ask yourself is it still cheaper then you have to buy every thing to reload for it then the average cost of the rifle. Guys who have reloaded for them said 4 to 6 average groups at 100 yards. The first one I bought was like new. My plans was to build a 45/70 out of it. The more I looked at the rifle it was to nice to chop it out. Then I bought 4 complete actions. One I am planning to build a 45/70 and a 450 Alaskan and a 50 caliber Alaskan both of these cases are 348 Winchester neck up.

I already have a couple of those molds for an Oviedo Mauser in 8x57 which has a worn throat and over size bore.

Moot point anyway, the rifle sold. Pretty cool seeing one though, never had seen an original one that I can recall.

[Earlwb]

If I remember right, used 7.62x54R brass cases to make my ammo with. it has been a number of years since I played with it. I do not remember any issues with it other than having to cast the correct diameter bullets and resizing the bullets of course. At the time I used regular unsized 8mm cast bullets. It obviously needed a little larger diameter bullets.

[Texas by God]

I bought one in high school for $18.50 just like you saw. I read an article on them, decided not to trim down 45-70 rims and size .338 jacketed Bullets down so I had it rebarred to 30-40 Krag. It was a good strong action!

[jonp]

Oversize sn't a problem anymore. With all the Hungarian Manlicchers imported recently, Lee has seen fit to market that 205 grain .330 bullet and .329 sizers.

I think that the Hungarian's use a different cartridge than the Siamese. Some are 8x50r and others 8x52r. I was reading about them somewhere else and am trying to find the article as I ran across an original on an auction sight and was thinking of getting it for the action. Quite interesting history.

[jonp]

https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/siamese-8mm-ammunition/7671

Found it in my browser history. Interesting stuff

[bouncer50]

I bought one in high school for $18.50 just like you saw. I read an article on them, decided not to trim down 45-70 rims and size .338 jacketed Bullets down so I had it rebarred to 30-40 Krag. It was a good strong action! I can recall them about 20.00 bucks. Most of them had beat up stocks worn finish on the metal. But a lot of them had nice bores. So what this tells me they were carry a lot and not shot much. Back in the late 70s I bought four complete action for 25.00 bucks each. Now just for a complete bolt alone goes for over 100.00 bucks. A stripper clip about a 100.00 bucks. Really hard now to find a aftermarket wood stock. After looking at ebay for 6 month I found one. Its look like a fajen stock from about the 60s or 70s. I believe ER Shaw is the only one now who will rebarrel one for only a 45/70 now.

[Texas by God]

The bolt face on a Siamese Mauser is a perfect fit for 3040, 303 British, and belted magnums. The magazine is sloped and tapered and built for rimmed cartridges. For a little while I had mine barreled to 6.5 Remington Magnum. It fed okay and so did the 30-40 krag but you had to be careful loading them in the magazine. I converted it back to 30-40, and sold it to a friend in South Texas where it is still killing deer.
I used a Bishop stock on mine and fitted and finished it in the high school shop. I don't believe they would let me do that nowadays.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[bruce drake]

The bolt face on a Siamese Mauser is a perfect fit for 3040, 303 British, and belted magnums. The magazine is sloped and tapered and built for rimmed cartridges. For a little while I had mine barreled to 6.5 Remington Magnum. It fed okay and so did the 30-40 krag but you had to be careful loading them in the magazine. I converted it back to 30-40, and sold it to a friend in South Texas where it is still killing deer.
I used a Bishop stock on mine and fitted and finished it in the high school shop. I don't believe they would let me do that nowadays.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

30-40 Krag or a rethreaded and re-chambered 303 British rifle barrel would be my personal choices although both require more than simply screwing a new Mauser Large Ring barrel onto the action (indexing the extractor slot I believe would be required for that rimmed case.) 30 caliber blanks are more available than .311 blanks if you go to a custom barrel route.

That said, yes, I'd love to have one also.

[bruce drake]

a rethreaded 7.62x54R M-N barrel might be a pretty easy conversion also.

[Texas by God]

The 8x52R Siamese cartridge was pretty powerful I think, besting the 8x57 and 30-06. If I remember the article correctly. You are correct about the extractor slot, Bruce. The gunsmith charged an extra $5 to cut it on the long chambered McGowan barrel. That 30-40 went beyond.308 Win power easily in the Siamese and it would put three 180gr RN Speers into an inch often enough to say it will.

[toot]

I too make them out of 7.62x54 RUSSIAN. I load them with .308 to .314 DIA. cast boolets and fire form them at shooting and load them with SIAMESE load data and dies.

[toot]

I have one with a 7/8th. bull barrel in 45/70. you can load it up with rocket fuel and jacketed boolets and it will kill any thing on the north american continent!! but they will only hold 3 rounds, one in the chamber and two in the magazine. it has a 4 power weaver steel scope on it and if you get your eye relief to close you will only do it once. you will be cut to the bone above your eye!! it has a BISHOP high grade stock on it. it is over 50 years old and will still put them in a clover at 200 yards. i also have an original in 8/52 CAL. and 4 years ago i paid $600.00 for it, the gun shop had it on consignment and the owner would not budge so i said yes and never looked back! it to is a great shooter.

[Preacher Jim]

I just finished building a 375 express on one. Took 444 marlin brass necked down to 375 my grandsons pig rifle.

[Uncle Grinch]

Now that sounds very interesting!

[Preacher Jim]

Brass easy one pass forming CH had dies PTG the reamer
12 twist barrel

[kywoodwrkr]

I just finished building a 375 express on one. Took 444 marlin brass necked down to 375 my grandsons pig rifle.

How does this vary from the 375 JDJ?

[Iskoda]

I've had a Siamese rifle setting around the shed for about 10 years. I was thinking of a 45/70 when I bought it but never got around to it. I would like to shoot it at least . How do you go about fire forming? Will the 7.62x54 fit in the chamber? Does it have to be trimmed or partly formed? Can I just jam it into the chamber with the bolt? Thanks for any information you can give me. Jess

[Earlwb]

I've had a Siamese rifle setting around the shed for about 10 years. I was thinking of a 45/70 when I bought it but never got around to it. I would like to shoot it at least . How do you go about fire forming? Will the 7.62x54 fit in the chamber? Does it have to be trimmed or partly formed? Can I just jam it into the chamber with the bolt? Thanks for any information you can give me. Jess

I would suggest getting cartridges already made from Buffalo Arms ref https://www.buffaloarms.com/8x52r-siamese-mauser-175-grain-spitzer-soft-point-ammunition-box-of-20-amo852r
You can make cartridges from other types such as reforming .45-70 cases, but you tend to loose quite a few in the process. Thus since one can buy ready made 8x52 cartridges, it is best to go that route today.
If I remember correctly I maybe used some .348 Win cases many years ago to make some ammo up for mine. But that cartridge is also obsolete and hard to find too.

The 7.62x54 cartridge case is slightly smaller at the base and it will bulge out some when fired in a Siamese Mauser chamber. Some guys wrapped some tape around the center of the base to keep the cartridge centered in the chamber when fired. If you didn't, then the case would not be centered and the bulge would be oblong on the cases. Hard to say anymore if that is a good way to make ammo for the Siamese Mauser or not anymore.

[No_1]

I have 2, one in 30-40 Krag using a 2groove barrel and the other in 45/70. I tried to purchase one in 348 a few years back but couldn’t pull together the cash on short notice. I still wonder where that one is now.