Tried to buy a Bulldog...

[Silvercreek Farmer]

...I really like the idea of a lightweight big bore, but just couldn't bring myself to do it. I drove to the next town over to a shop that had one in stock. There were rough machining marks on the outside of the cylinder, pits in the frame/barrel, and front sight (casting pits?). The roll marks were readily apparent INSIDE the barrel, and the throats were rough as a cob, perhaps out of round. It was a new 4" target model. The 2.5" model they had looked a bit better, but the throats were still very rough. Without a doubt, the worst finished new revolver I have ever looked at. Surprisingly enough, the trigger was decent, but after a couple clicks, the salesman waved me off, saying they weren't meant to be be dry fired. They had a 357 Tracker that I looked at for comparison, and there was no comparison, the Taurus looked much, much better. I offered them 5% less than sticker due to the blemishes, with the intention of test firing it and sending it back to Charter if it didn't shoot, but they weren't having it. When they didn't accept, I walked, as I really hate to buy one with the intention of sending it right back to the factory.

I've got a few more calls to make, but not many shops in the area carry them, and the 4" model is rarer yet. No way I am going to order one without looking at it first. I guess I'll just keep a lookout for a decent Wednesday gun.

Despite it being a pretty high volume LGS, you could tell the salesman wasn't used to someone looking a gun over with a pen light...

[Kraschenbirn]

Try looking around for an older 3" gun (with adjustable sights). Most of them didn't get shot a lot and, while they weren't up to S&W for fit/finish, were solidly built with half-way decent triggers. I've seen some of these in good condition at fairly reasonable prices. Hint: take it from someone who had one; original factory grips just might be an indicator of a low round count.

Bill

[Texas by God]

I had one of the early ones soon after introduction and it was a great gun. When I compare a new one to my vivid recollection of that one; No. Not gonna do it. I passed on one for $300 today just by viewing a pic beforehand.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Called Charter this morning just to share my experience. They put me on speakerphone with the owner, plant manager, and QC manager. They didn't have much to say about it but wanted to know where it was.

[Handloader109]

I've a model 65 Taurus stainless and bought my wife a Poly 605 with stainless cylinder. Both are good to go. Look good, no issues at all. The 65 is heavy..... the Poly 605 is way less.
Charter, no..... BTW, Taurus should be $50 or so less I think.

[TCLouis]

As I am QUICK to point out I have one that I threw(literally) into the back of the safe some years ago.
Had a dealer order it and did not even look it over good until after I got home.
Outside machining/fit was quite good.
Machining in the barrel was so rough it looked like fine threads
Chunks of the barrel were apparently pulled out too. It was so bad a machinist friend asked why I had shot black powder in it then let it corrode.
First trip back to Charter before I even took the hang tag off.
Got it back and found that would randomly decide to fire rounds out of all 5 chambers on the first, second or more passes and sometimes NOT all five.
Trip two back to charter.
Got it back and again would randomly fire all 5 chambers until the hammer transfer bar broke off and jammed the mechanism.
Trip three back to Charter
Got it back with new part and again it would not fire all 5 chambers.
I'm guessing the broken transfer bar is a hint of what is NOT fitted correctly.
Sintered metal part/poorly fit?

This was to be my carry gun while fishing, but was THROWN into the safe and occasionally seen when it is in the way when I am poking around in the back looking for a real functional gun.

Words that I could/would use to describe it, are far worse than a synonym I have already gotten a warning for using here in the past.
I have had other Charter products that were just fine.

[winelover]

About a year ago, I bought a CA "Fit for Duty" (shrouded hammer) Bulldog off GB. My LGS couldn't find one from his suppliers. So basically, buying blind. Cosmetically, the exterior finish is on par with the original poster. However, the barrel is fine and the cylinder throats are uniform, albeit on the large size. Works for me, since I cast all 44 caliber my bullets .432 diameter and larger. Gun is as accurate, as any of my other snubbies, manufactured by S&W and Ruger.

231131


231132

Winelover

[Gewehr-Guy]

I like the 44 charters, but I bought old blued ones. Look on Gunbroker, as the old ones show up frequently and sell for less than the new ones .

[cabezaverde]

I have 2 of the old Stratford guns. Bought the blued one back in the 80's, a stainless one when I saw a good deal at LGS.

I like the older ones.

[CJR]

TCLouis,

Re: Your Randomly Firing Charter Arms Bulldog

Here's something to try for your Bulldog. With an EMPTY GUN; point Bulldog muzzle vertically upwards and slowly DA the trigger and watch what the transfer bar does. Does the transfer bar stay in contact with the in-frame firing pin, while DA, and until the hammer falls? OR does the transfer bar lean-back from the firing pin (i.e. not in contact with the in-frame firing pin), while DA, and until the hammer falls? Do this DA many times to insure consistency. Then tell me what your Bulldog is doing.

Best regards,

CJR

[hanleyfan]

I have had a bull dog for 4 years and love it, so like it so don't

[FergusonTO35]

Seems like Charter's biggest problem has always been that they can't decide whether to be a budget gun maker like Taurus or a mainline brand like Ruger and S&W. As a result, too often they end up with the worst attributes of both approaches: Taurus QC at a Ruger/S&W price. I have an old Stratford Undercover purchased for $130.00. About half the finish is gone and there is some rust pitting, however the lockup is tight and accuracy is on par with my S&W 637. The definition of carried a lot/shot a little, I would guess this gun spent it's life on a cop's ankle or in a glove box. Perfect little piece for when you want some dependable firepower but not anything big or expensive.

[cabezaverde]

There is one up for sale in S&S right now. Not mine.

[bdicki]

There is one up for sale in S&S right now. Not mine.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?372083-For-Sale-Charter-Arms-Bulldog-44

[Cottonpicker]

Bought a Charter Arms Bulldog in 45 COLT new, July 2018 from Classic Firearms; out the door to my FFL for $370. I have apprx. 300 rds through it and haven't had any issues. The fit and finish for a sub $400 hand gun is as good as I would expect. The only thing I changed are the grips. I opted for a smaller set of wood grips from EAGLE GRIPS. I couldn't be happier with this pistol!
231215231216

[Gewehr-Guy]

That looks like one SERIOUS belly gun. A bad man couldn't miss seeing all those copper bullets looking back at him!

[Petrol & Powder]

Charter Arms has a varied history of quality and not all of it good.

I've examined a lot of them over the years and my take is the design is decent but the execution of that design isn't always good.

The company has gone through a lot of iterations and quality has been a bit varied over the years.

The Off-Duty and Undercover models were popular with police officers back in the revolver days. For those that couldn't afford a S&W J-frame 38 for a off-duty/back-up gun, the Charter Arms models were a good option (the Taurus Model 85 was the other option). Some of those were solid little guns.
At times the 44 Bulldog was a decent gun and at other times it seemed that Charter Arms just saw it as a novelty that sold well.

I agree with the others that will not buy a Bulldog sight unseen. There are guns that I'm willing to take a chance on and purchase without a close in-person examination. The Bulldog is not one of those guns that I would ever buy without the opportunity to examine it closely.

[Petrol & Powder]

Seems like Charter's biggest problem has always been that they can't decide whether to be a budget gun maker like Taurus or a mainline brand like Ruger and S&W. As a result, too often they end up with the worst attributes of both approaches: Taurus QC at a Ruger/S&W price. I have an old Stratford Undercover purchased for $130.00. About half the finish is gone and there is some rust pitting, however the lockup is tight and accuracy is on par with my S&W 637. The definition of carried a lot/shot a little, I would guess this gun spent it's life on a cop's ankle or in a glove box. Perfect little piece for when you want some dependable firepower but not anything big or expensive.

/\ This sums it up pretty well /\

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Well, I closed my eyes and ordered a 4 inch M69. Almost 2x the weight of the Bulldog, but I shoot more than I carry, and I couldn't see the Bulldog going thousands of rounds even with light loads. My SP101 will continue to fill the occasional carry role. I'm sure I'll shoot the heavier revolver better anyway. The ability to easily mount optics on the Smith was a plus as well. This will be my first Smith, fingers crossed I get a good one!

[Petrol & Powder]

Silvercreek, I think the odds are good that you will end up with a decent S&W M69.

[winelover]

If I was looking for a range toy, it would be a M69, also. However, I wanted a lightweight CC piece, sans an exposed hammer. The Bulldog goes in my pocket when I go bowhunting. Around here, the season runs from the third Saturday in September till the last day in February. BTW, CA guarantees their products for life..............so if you shoot it loose, they will rebuild or replace it.



Winelover

[Thin Man]

Back in 1973 (lucky I can remember that far back) SWMBO and I were traveling around the New England states and wound up at the Charter Arms factory. They allowed us a limited tour and I got introduced to their Bulldog 44 Special. Must have talked about that introduction too much for the next few weeks. When Christmas arrived SWMBO had one of those for me under the tree. Over the years I have tried many different loads in this revolver. Heavy boolits, light boolits, fast and medium and slow powders. The revolver has never failed to function as designed, it just has it's preferences on load combinations. Right now the vote goes to a 180 grain WC over a respectable dose of Unique. These loads hit at the sights and hit hard. Yes, she and the Charter are both still here. Looks like I have a pair of keepers.

[Gewehr-Guy]

Not a Bulldog, but I just bought a baby bulldog on Gunbroker, a .32 Undercover,cute little thing I hope it shoots as good as it looks.

[FergusonTO35]

Not a Bulldog, but I just bought a baby bulldog on Gunbroker, a .32 Undercover,cute little thing I hope it shoots as good as it looks.

It probably will. If you reload for it, you can wake up the .32 S&W Long quite a bit over factory. The Undercover should be strong enough for reasonable hot rodding. One outfit (Buffalo Bore maybe) now makes a .32 S&W Long with some serious punch that still meets SAAMI specs. Also, as far as I know, all the small frame Charters use the same parts other than barrel and cylinder assembly.

[EMC45]

Not a Bulldog, but I just bought a baby bulldog on Gunbroker, a .32 Undercover,cute little thing I hope it shoots as good as it looks.

I was just handling one of those 2 weeks ago. Looked to be a great little gun. The one I was messing with was a .32 S&W-L

[FergusonTO35]

I've always thought that the .32 S&W Long with more horsepower would be the ne plus ultra pocket gun cartridge.

[rintinglen]

I've always thought that the .32 S&W Long with more horsepower would be the ne plus ultra pocket gun cartridge.

Me too. I have found the 32 H&R to be that, but sadly, that round has never caught on, and the .327 is barely clinging to life. I have 3 Ruger 327's and I will get a S&W if ever I can find one. The 32's as group seem to be intrinsically accurate, and very pleasant to shoot. I wish I had gone there sooner.

[Texas by God]

A six shot .32 J frame would be funnest.

[lar45]

Taurus used to make a 5 shot tracker in 45acp that would take 45 Cowboy Special cases. If the quality of the Charter Arms guns is slipping, the Taurus might be an option

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Taurus used to make a 5 shot tracker in 45acp that would take 45 Cowboy Special cases. If the quality of the Charter Arms guns is slipping, the Taurus might be an option

I looked a 44 Tracker, but wanted to avoid porting and Taurus service doesn't get the best reviews!

[Texas by God]

I looked a 44 Tracker, but wanted to avoid porting and Taurus service doesn't get the best reviews!
The porting is a deal breaker for me as well.

[EMC45]

A six shot .32 J frame would be funnest.

I agree. I got to where I shot my J Frame and I Frame S&W .32Ls so much I didn't want to shoot anything else.

[barkerwc4362]

In 44 special you haven't mentioned the older Taurus and newer Rugers. I have two of the 4" stainless adj sited Taurus 431s. Both are excellent guns. One I carry in a Bianchi shoulder holster. The other my son has claimed. Both shoot the 429421 Kieth in a slight reduction of "Skeeters load" using unique very well. My son's revolver also likes the Speer 200gr Gold Dot load. My carry gun hasn't a liking for any factory jacketed load yet. I have a 5" blued adj sited Ruger. It is heavier than the Taurus, but loves the 429421 Kieth using the "Skeeters load" using unique. All three guns have had the factory grips replaced with Hogues.
Bill

[KCSO]

I won't touch Charter Arms they wouldn't know quality if it walked up and bit them.

[richhodg66]

I've had a Bull Dog for about 30 years now. I shoot a few boxes through it a year. For what it is, it's a good little gun. Never had a problem with it. In a bad situation at realistic gun fight distances, I'd feel well-armed with it.

Mine was probably made in the '70s as was the one my dad had. Not a problem with either one. I've heard a lot about poor quality control from the various regenerations of Charter Arms over the years, but the ones from the era of those two seem pretty sound and I'd buy another one if a deal presented itself.

[EMC45]

In 44 special you haven't mentioned the older Taurus and newer Rugers. I have two of the 4" stainless adj sited Taurus 431s. Both are excellent guns. One I carry in a Bianchi shoulder holster. The other my son has claimed. Both shoot the 429421 Kieth in a slight reduction of "Skeeters load" using unique very well. My son's revolver also likes the Speer 200gr Gold Dot load. My carry gun hasn't a liking for any factory jacketed load yet. I have a 5" blued adj sited Ruger. It is heavier than the Taurus, but loves the 429421 Kieth using the "Skeeters load" using unique. All three guns have had the factory grips replaced with Hogues.
Bill

I have one of the 4in. fixed sight Taurus .44 Specials. It shoots really well. Mine does real well with the Lee 200gr. RNFP Cowboy bullet over Titegroup or Unique.

[Reverend Al]

My step-daugther and her husband recently bought a Bulldog ... oh ... wait a minute ...

https://i.imgur.com/kBNGqrX.jpg

:kidding:

[FergusonTO35]

I looked a 44 Tracker, but wanted to avoid porting and Taurus service doesn't get the best reviews!

I have read various rumblings that Taurus is changing their warranty policies on brand new guns. People report that their CS personnel say they will be moving to a one year warranty and also possibly dropping coverage on discontinued models.

https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/#/topics/398005?page=2

[three50seven]

Well, I closed my eyes and ordered a 4 inch M69. Almost 2x the weight of the Bulldog, but I shoot more than I carry, and I couldn't see the Bulldog going thousands of rounds even with light loads. My SP101 will continue to fill the occasional carry role. I'm sure I'll shoot the heavier revolver better anyway. The ability to easily mount optics on the Smith was a plus as well. This will be my first Smith, fingers crossed I get a good one!

You will enjoy the S&W 69. I have one and it is a pleasure to shoot with even the hottest .44 special loads. I've bought and sold 3 different bulldogs over the years, all 70's era guns, they were all "ok" but none of them were great.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Shot my 69 for the first time today with some 44 Russian loads. Shot real well! I was able to shoot a tennis ball size group, offhand, at 25 yards. Just a little mild lead/antimony wash in the bore, nothing to worry about. The finish work on the Smith looks real good. The only thing can find wrong with it is a burr on the muzzle where the rifling was cut. It could easily be polished out, but I probably won't mess with it unless I think accuracy is suffering. I'll probably keep an eye out for a decent 4" Bulldog, but not holding my breath! I might mount a reflex micro red dot on the 69 for deer season next year. Hmm, wonder if anyone has put a red dot on a Bulldog...not sure I'd want to drill holes in the top strap!

[Drm50]

My advice is to save up for a S&W or a Ruger. I want no Charters or Taurus of any stripe. I don't refuse them on trades but don't get any because of the value I put on them.

[megasupermagnum]

They aren't the fanciest looking revolvers, but they don't seem bad to me, not at all for the price. I almost got one in 41 mag, but can't stand fixed sights. I wish they would get out of the snub nose routine, and come out with something bigger. There's a guy at my range with the target model 357 mag, it shoots every bit as good as any Ruger, and doesn't cost a paycheck.

[FergusonTO35]

Shot my 69 for the first time today with some 44 Russian loads. Shot real well! I was able to shoot a tennis ball size group, offhand, at 25 yards. Just a little mild lead/antimony wash in the bore, nothing to worry about. The finish work on the Smith looks real good. The only thing can find wrong with it is a burr on the muzzle where the rifling was cut. It could easily be polished out, but I probably won't mess with it unless I think accuracy is suffering. I'll probably keep an eye out for a decent 4" Bulldog, but not holding my breath! I might mount a reflex micro red dot on the 69 for deer season next year. Hmm, wonder if anyone has put a red dot on a Bulldog...not sure I'd want to drill holes in the top strap!

Charter makes a target model Bulldog with adjustable sights and 5" tube.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The S&W 696 is what all those other guns would like to be.

Randy

[winelover]

The S&W 696 is what all those other guns would like to be.

Randy

Except for the weight and bulk. Ain't putting that in a pocket holster.

Winelover

[EMC45]

Saw a Bulldog in a pawnshop the other day. .44 Special and an older model in exc shape.

[FergusonTO35]

How much did they want for it? In my experience, the 1960's-70's guns tend to be really good as long as they haven't been abused.

[Catshooter]

Except for the weight and bulk. Ain't putting that in a pocket holster.

Winelover

And Price!!


Cat

[Uncle Grinch]

Just bought a new Bulldog 44 for my wife and it appears to have no issues that I can see. Finish looks good, Barrel and forcing cone look good, fit is nice and close. The DA trigger pull is somewhat gritty, but it’s new and needs some range time.

Looking to get a 200 grain mould, maybe a wadcutter style.

[EMC45]

How much did they want for it? In my experience, the 1960's-70's guns tend to be really good as long as they haven't been abused.

Can't quite remember. It was in East TN

[FergusonTO35]

Biggest problem with the first generation Charters I have found is how they have usually been treated over the years. Most people bought them because they were the cheapest, non-Saturday Night Special snubnose .38 available at the time. As such, they spent alot of time in glove boxes, drawers, tackle boxes, pockets, ankle holsters, and so on with little to no care. My own 1970's Undercover .38 has most of the finish rubbed off on the cylinder and had surface rust when I got it. I figure it spent most of it's life in a pocket or glove box. I also don't think it was ever fired much. No cylinder turn line at all and lockup is tighter than alot of new guns. I actually had some light strikes at first until the oil had worked it's way through the internals. Now that I've put a few hundred rounds through, it is a fine little pocket piece!

[HATCH]

I have only had a Pitbull.
40 S&W version of the Bulldog
I did send it back to Charter twice.
Once because it had a issue with the extractor.
Got it back and it would no longer accept cast boolits. Well some chambers did and some didn't.
Back it went.
I haven't fired it since it came back but it does accept cast boolits now.

Its a cheap truck gun that I don't worry about if it gets lost.