Fiocchi Small Pistol Primers vs CCI-500

[Landshark9025]

I've looked at the Fiocchi primers several times as they have a tendency to go on sale every so often. However, all I've been able to find in the way of reviews were "they all went bang". Not entirely helpful. I recently did a test with them vs CCI-500 in my 8.5" 9mm PCC with 147g bullets and TiteGroup and found no appreciable difference in Velocity, ES, or SD.

As I recently picked up a pound of Shooter's World Clean Shot powder, I thought this would be a good opportunity. I would do a load workup and compare them. All rounds were loaded on a Hornady LnL progressive press. Once the powder measure was set and verified by throwing 10 charges and weighing the total to be within .2g (ie- if the goal is 3.0g, then 10 charges must weigh 30g +/- 0.2g) 10 rounds were loaded with CCI-500 and 10 rounds were loaded with Fiocchi.

As to the powder, I can say that it is VERY FINE powder, meters well.

One observation is that the Fiocchi primers are significantly harder to pick up with the pickup tube. This might be due to the CCI primers being nickle coated. However, I don't recall that being the case with some Wolf primers I used a few years back. It's not a deal killer, but it is kind of a pain.

Also, Fiocchi primers come in 150 ct. sleeves and 12,000 ct. cases. Odd, but I can easily overlook that as the 12,000ct case comes in a very nice wooden box. A couple of small, brass hinges and you have a handy storage container.

I didn't see any data for lead bullets on the Shooter's World reloading guide (https://shootersworldpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/ShootersWorldMaualInterior_072618.pdf), so I went to the Lovex Guide (https://explosia.cz/app/uploads/2016/11/reloading_Lovex_EN.pdf).

NOTE: later, I found on the final page of the Shooter's World manual a section for lead bullets marked "Competitive Shooter Data" and this range goes from 1.7g(not a typo) to 4.1g.

They had a lead 127g with a range of 2.9 to 3.5g for the D032 which is the same as the Shooter's World Clean Shot. They also had a 124g load from 2.9 to 3.8g, and another 124g load from 4.0 to 4.4g. I opted for the more conservative 2.9 to 3.5g load. I opted to start at 3.0g as my Canik with a 5" slide does not lock back on minimum charges. It usually takes at least 1/3 of the way up to almost mid level. So I settled on 3.0 to 3.4g.


For the tl:dr crowd, I found a surprising lack of difference between the two.

These are the averages across all five loads:

Velocity:
CCI-500: 944
Fiocchi: 946

Extreme Spread:
CCI-500: 39
Fiocchi: 39

SD:
CCI-500: 13
Fiocchi: 13

Average Group Size (25yds)
CCI-500: 4.24
Fiocchi: 3.58

Based on this and a previous test that was close, but not THAT close, I'd interchange them.

Given that even at 3.4g it failed to lock the slide back, I'll probably test this powder again at 3.5-4.0g. I'm pretty sure that by the time I get to 4.0, I'll probably be hitting the mid 1100. We'll see.

Here's the full data(apologies for the poor formatting):

Pistol- Canik TP9 SFX w/ Vortex Venom Red Dot
Bullet- Lead (93/5/2) Cast from Arsenal 358-125 TC mold, Powder Coated
Cases- Federal
Powder- Shooter's Choice Clean Shot
Distance to target- 25 yards

3.0g
CCI Fiocchi
Average Velocity 909 914
ES 45 24
SD 15.1 7.5
Group Size 4.6 3.4

NOTES: Both had stovepipes and FTF. Neither locked slide back.

3.1g
CCI Fiocchi
Average Velocity 924 933
ES 21 30
SD 5.6 `10.4
Group Size 4.4 3.8

NOTES: CCI had one failure to feed, neither locked slide back


3.2g
CCI Fiocchi
Average Velocity 946 945
ES 38 50
SD 13.2 `15.6
Group Size 3.6 3.2

NOTES: CCI did not lock slide back, but Fiocchi did


3.3g
CCI Fiocchi
Average Velocity 965 968
ES 44 43
SD 15.1 14.8
Group Size 4.2 3.6

NOTES: Slide did not lock back on either.


3.4g
CCI Fiocchi
Average Velocity 977 973
ES 47 48
SD 16.1 17
Group Size 4.4 3.9

NOTES: Slide did not lock back on either.


Averages
CCI Fiocchi
Average Velocity 944 946
ES 39 39
SD 13.0 13.0
Group Size 4.24 3.58

[BUCKEYE BANDIT]

I've been eye-balling them also, but read on here somewhere yesterday that they have a 15 yr. shelf life due to a changed compound. I most likely won't be around much longer than that , but would hate for the grand kids to be cursing me when I'm gone.

[Bookworm]

I've used Fiocchi primers for years, mostly using up a stash from the mid 90s. I've never had any trouble, or noticed any difference from other primers.

I suppose that if one is concerned with shelf life, one could purchase the 12,000 piece case and put it in the front of the loading line. That way, the older lead styfnate primers (that seemingly last forever) could remain stashed for future hard times.

Which will indeed come.

[CraigOK]

Thanks for sharing

[BNE]

Good review. Based on your data, I would call them equivalent. Thanks for the data and documenting it for the rest of us.

[sargenv]

I concur, these are great primers and tend to need a bit more powder to make velocity but because they are milder, tend to make results a bit more consistent. There are several competitive shooters at my club (One being a local Master class USPSA Limited pistol competitor). His pet load is made with Accurate #5. With 180 gr bullets, he tends to get an SD of between 8-12 depending only on temperature. He uses mixed commercial 40 S&W brass. I've loaded many 1000's of these as have several other competitors at my club and found them to work well for the money (Roughly $27/1000 after tax/shipping).

[Landshark9025]

I concur, these are great primers and tend to need a bit more powder to make velocity but because they are milder, tend to make results a bit more consistent. There are several competitive shooters at my club (One being a local Master class USPSA Limited pistol competitor). His pet load is made with Accurate #5. With 180 gr bullets, he tends to get an SD of between 8-12 depending only on temperature. He uses mixed commercial 40 S&W brass. I've loaded many 1000's of these as have several other competitors at my club and found them to work well for the money (Roughly $27/1000 after tax/shipping).

Hey Sargenv (and others),

Thanks for the responses. I'm hoping this proves useful to others.

As to the powder, oddly enough, I found there to be no real difference in average velocity between the two primers. The greatest difference was with 3.0 and 3.1g yielding 5 and 9 fps respectively. However, two years ago I did a similar test with CCI-500 and Wolf primers and in that test it did require a consistent .1g to close the gap between them. If memory serves me, it was about a 15-25fps spread.

What is interesting is that in the higher charges, they are nearly identical.

As I go from 3.5g to probably 4.0g searching for a load with good accuracy that will cycle the slide, I may or may not continue this test. At this point, I think they can be used pretty interchangeably.

[sargenv]

The fast powders like Clean shot, there won't be much difference.. I worked up several loads using fast and slow propellants..

Titegroup and Clean shot do not seem to matter very much.

231 gave some differences..

Where it really started to make a difference was using a powder like Vitt N320 and Herco..

I did a comparison with TG and 13 primers..

Fiocchi was not at the bottom of all of them, at least not with Titegroup. I chose 3 firearms the first time. A 4" Ruger P94, a 5" Para LDA, and a 6.5" S&W 929.

230975

230976

230977

With the next run of tests, I tried Herco, and the same 3 firearms.. The 929 had some ignition issues again..

230979

230980

230978

To keep things as close to the same as possible, I used Starline brass.. from the same lot. I have some testing with 231 and N320 in the 40 also.. and those tests included up to 20 or so primers.. yes, I've been told I have too much time on my hands.. on occasion :)

Loaded length was 1.135" The 118 was produced by Blue Bullets, the 147 BnB was produced by Black & Blue Bullets who are these days known simply as BnB.. These were both of the baked on poly coated type.

[Landshark9025]

Interesting. HP-38/231 is currently my favorite powder as it gives me slightly reduced recoil as compared to Bullseye or Titegroup with the same bullet at whatever charge nets the best accuracy for the respective powder.

That said, this Clean Shot shows promise providing I can get another accuracy node. Currently, as it got up to 3.3 and 3.4g the groups were starting to open up. My guess (based on tests with HP-38 and Titegroup), I'm not going to see slide lock on last round until I get about another 50-75 fps. Emphasis on "guess".

That's great info there Sargenv. One question, why no CCI-500? Or did I just miss it?

[dragon813gt]

I've been eye-balling them also, but read on here somewhere yesterday that they have a 15 yr. shelf life due to a changed compound. I most likely won't be around much longer than that , but would hate for the grand kids to be cursing me when I'm gone.

The 15 year shelf life is for their lead free primers. You can currently buy both formulations. Not sure which the OP is using but there are two different primer formulations that it could be. They’re both out on sale at the same time by most vendors.

[Landshark9025]

The 15 year shelf life is for their lead free primers. You can currently buy both formulations. Not sure which the OP is using but there are two different primer formulations that it could be. They’re both out on sale at the same time by most vendors.

These were for the non-lead free. Or at least they were not advertised as lead free.
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/00350445smpcase/fiocchi-small-pistol-primers-12-and-000-count-case-(8-boxes-of-1500)

[hermans]

Landshark9025,

Some very good information regarding Fiocchi SP primers here. I agree that they are more "mild" than some of the other makes, so you have to add a little more powder to achieve the same velocity, no big beal.
Another observation from me is that they seem to be softer than many of the others, especially CCI's, and definitely a lot better than S&B's, which is unfortunately the only make that is readily available here in darkest Africa.
I have been using them as well as the LP version in my 45 for many years, no problems/complaints here.

[dg31872]

Any experience good or bad about Fiocchi large rifle for 30-30 pressure loads?

[Tatume]

Once the powder measure was set and verified by throwing 10 charges and weighing the total to be within .2g (ie- if the goal is 3.0g, then 10 charges must weigh 30g +/- 0.2g) 10 rounds were loaded with CCI-500 and 10 rounds were loaded with Fiocchi.

Two points, just FYI: In countries where the metric system is used, readers might be at least momentarily confused by your use of the abbreviation for gram when you mean grain (gr).

Second, if your goal is 3.0 gr +/- 0.2 gr, then ten charges should weigh 30 gr +/- 2.0 gr.

[lightman]

I've used Fiocchi primers before. At one time they were pretty cheap at gun shows. Like many others, they met my requirements and went bang. Its nice to see data showing that they perform ok. Nowadays I hardly ever buy anything besides CCI. About the only issues I've ever had with primers was with fit and CCI always has had fewer issues for me than the others.

[sargenv]

Interesting. HP-38/231 is currently my favorite powder as it gives me slightly reduced recoil as compared to Bullseye or Titegroup with the same bullet at whatever charge nets the best accuracy for the respective powder.

That said, this Clean Shot shows promise providing I can get another accuracy node. Currently, as it got up to 3.3 and 3.4g the groups were starting to open up. My guess (based on tests with HP-38 and Titegroup), I'm not going to see slide lock on last round until I get about another 50-75 fps. Emphasis on "guess".

That's great info there Sargenv. One question, why no CCI-500? Or did I just miss it?

I think for that test I didn't have any.. My 40 cal test has the CCI 500's in addition to a lot more. The original load out likely had the 500's but when I looked on the shelf, it was missing.. :( I looked at the date and the test was done at the end of 2016. I had them in stock at the club, but not at home.. oops.

[sargenv]

I've used Fiocchi primers before. At one time they were pretty cheap at gun shows. Like many others, they met my requirements and went bang. Its nice to see data showing that they perform ok. Nowadays I hardly ever buy anything besides CCI. About the only issues I've ever had with primers was with fit and CCI always has had fewer issues for me than the others.

I find that the Fiocchi primers feel to me like seating Winchesters. The only primers I tend to have seating issues with are the Wolf/Tula, S&B, and Unis-Ginex (Bosnian). They are just slightly larger.. probably talking something in the ten-thousanth range.. still in spec, just a bit oversize for US brass. Something I'd use for brass with worn out primer pockets.

[Landshark9025]

Two points, just FYI: In countries where the metric system is used, readers might be at least momentarily confused by your use of the abbreviation for gram when you mean grain (gr).

Second, if your goal is 3.0 gr +/- 0.2 gr, then ten charges should weigh 30 gr +/- 2.0 gr.

Hey Tatume,

I likely didn't word that correctly. My goal is to be as absolute accurate and confident of 3.0grains as possible. To do that, I'll throw 10 for 30.0grains and accept anything between 29.8 and 30.2. Some of the bulkier powders that do not meter as well, I'll take a .5grain swing. Same if I'm just loading up some plinker ammo for steel.

This is for pistol. For rifle I'll be a little more generous.

Throwing 10 charges of pistol powder, if it was off by a full grain, that would be a .1grain deviation which could make a difference. Since it is so easy to get a +/- .2grain difference over a combined 10 throws, I am pretty confident it's consistent.

[dryflash3]

I bought 5k Fiocchi SP primers to load in 9mm.

I'm about half way through them and I like them enough to buy more as needed.

[bruce381]

or avoid anything that has a shelf life at all, I do not want my ammo in various stages of NOT working