Muzzleloader questions

[John McCorkle]

Found the forum for paper patch black powder but not much on muzzleloader...

Stopped by the local gas station/general store at my home town over Thanksgiving where I bought a Remington Genesis for a song...(30 bucks) I figured I have at least a dozen other projects and hobbies I never get time for why not add another. It will give me two extra weeks in Louisiana (1 before and 1 after rifle season)

It's 50 cal - and of course id like to cast for it....I have cast for smokeless cartridges for all my reloading...but I have zero idea about muzzleloader...

I know black powder is much faster than smokeless... smokeless and black are not substitution for one another....

I don't understand what f, ff, or fff are (I'm guessing grades of fineness?)

Why do black powders seem to be loaded with a bucket load of grease?

I'm assuming there are a thousand shades of burn rates and profiles of burn just as smokeless has...faster to slower some more suited for other applications some general purpose in right proportions?

Some projos need a wad, some don't? Why and why not? In smokeless cases the bullet is right on the powder why does black powder need a wad?

My goal is to just cross the finish line this year with a workable load to kill a deer at under 50 yards...nothing fancy needed and it doesn't have to be a lightning bolt. 50 cal wouldn't even have to expand I'm guessing as long as I push it through the boiler room that'd do the trick...

Any suggestions for a mold? Lee makes a few pretty in expensive and I've had good luck with their molds for rifle...what about their R.E.A.L. mold? Should I get a mini mold instead?

What accuracy should I expect...or want? Load suggestions? I have roughly 6 weeks to figure this all out which seems like enough just not an over abundance... privative season reopens (or actually remains open after firearm season ends) Jan 8...

Scattered thoughts and I'm sorry just firing them off as they come across my mind

Any guidance to resources threads or tutorials would be appreciated!!



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[gspgundog]

For real black powder the different grades are grain size. X=Cannon, 2X= Musket, 3X= Rifle / Pistol, 4X=Flash Powder for flintlock flash pan. That being said depending on the individual gun and caliber some loads will cross over from 2-3X and back. For your .50 I would suggest starting with 3X. The wad or patch serves to grab the rifling in the barrel. This makes loading easier and keeps the fouling soft. I have had good luck with Lyman’s Maxiball and Maxihunter. If you cast them must be 100% pure lead. For accuracy it depends on the time you spend working up you load. From a rest start at 70 grains fire three shot group and increase charge by 10. You will notice your groups getting smaller until the group expands. At that point drop back 5grains and try again. That will give you your load for that rifle, bullet combo. Oh almost forgot after every shot clean your bore. Also black powder and Pyrodex are measured by volume NOT weight so you need a black powder measure


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[gspgundog]

Forgot to say no patching with maxiball or maxihunter They have a a slightly larger and that engraved on the rifling when loaded


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[Good Cheer]

A 350 grainer Lee REAL mold would be my first try.

[arcticap]

Wads are used to help stop hot gases from blowing by the projectile through the rifling grooves.
Sometimes they improve accuracy and help to obtain more consistent results and sometimes they don't.

The Remington Genesis is the same rifle as the Traditions Yukon.
A small percentage of those rifles are known to have some potential quirks.
For instance, you may need to run a wet Q-tip on the face of the breech block to remove fouling if it begins to stick from accumulated powder residue.
One very accurate load someone discovered was a 350 grain Keith .430 bullet with a Harvester green sabot and 105 grains of Pyrodex RS.--->>> https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-powder/350289-remington-genesis-pure-lead-keith-nose-bullets.html

Yukon Owner's Manual--->>> https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/data/product_owner_manuals/Yukon%20Manual_1406058430.pdf

There's some threads with good information about both the Genesis and the Yukon on the Hunting dot Net black powder forum. These are the search results for the Genesis--->>> https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/search.php?searchid=2857604

Every rifle is different and while some may shoot bore size conicals well enough, a person can also cast a bullet of their choice for shooting with a sabot.--->>> https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/4163209-post7.html

[rodwha]

My .50 cal has the deeper grooves meant for a patched ball, but has the 1:48” twist which can handle conicals as well. Bought some cast 320 grn REALs and read that a felt wad was often needed. I tried 70 grns of powder and no wad and found the conical had keyholed at 50 yds and was a foot left and several inches low. The next two I tried with a wad and they were nearly touching and just below the bull.

[pietro]

Found the forum for paper patch black powder but not much on muzzleloader...

Stopped by the local gas station/general store at my home town over Thanksgiving where I bought a Remington Genesis for a song...(30 bucks)

It's 50 cal - and of course id like to cast for it....I have cast for smokeless cartridges for all my reloading...but I have zero idea about muzzleloader...

I know black powder is much faster than smokeless... smokeless and black are not substitution for one another....

I don't understand what f, ff, or fff are (I'm guessing grades of fineness?) -

[Correct -generally: fg/1F = cannons; ffg/2F) = .50cal/up; fffg/3F = .50cal/under. ]



Why do black powders seem to be loaded with a bucket load of grease ? - [it's part of the production process.]

I'm assuming there are a thousand shades of burn rates and profiles of burn just as smokeless has...faster to slower some more suited for other applications some general purpose in right proportions? - [Correct - see answer above.]



Some projos need a wad, some don't? Why and why not? In smokeless cases the bullet is right on the powder why does black powder need a wad?

[It's not projectiles that need an over powder wad, it's more the gun. Smoothbores need a wad, but most front stuffing pistols, revolvers & rifles do not, since the proper boolitt O.D. should be large enough to shave a ring of lead (C&B revolvers) or to engrave the rifling on the boolitt during loading, but not so big that they are difficult to load. Minie balls are under bore size, as they are designed with a thin skirt that expands upon ignition. However, this is America, and if you want to use a wad, go to it.]



My goal is to just cross the finish line this year with a workable load to kill a deer at under 50 yards...nothing fancy needed and it doesn't have to be a lightning bolt. 50 cal wouldn't even have to expand I'm guessing as long as I push it through the boiler room that'd do the trick...

[For a .50cal, 90-150 grains (scoop volume, not weight) of FFg/2F will usually suffice - try different loads to determine which load shoots good w/o beating you to death.]






Welcome to the forum !

I hope the above helps you out.

[Wayne Smith]

And to answer another of your questions - Black powder is about 46%-48% efficient. All that lube is to soften the residue - over 50% of what you put in your barrel - so it is soft enough to be moved. BTW - all that smoke is part of that >50% that doesn't burn.

[John McCorkle]

Looks like the specs show it has a 1:28 rifling...which makes no sense to my rifle brain used to 1:12 or 1:10 in 30 06 (or 1:7/8 in 300 blk) but apparently that is pretty fast in 50 cal muzzleloaders

Does this limit what I can and can't shoot? I mean I imagine it does but what does that mean practically? Round balls patched ok? Conicals? Both? Neither?

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[arcticap]

Looks like the specs show it has a 1:28 rifling...which makes no sense to my rifle brain used to 1:12 or 1:10 in 30 06 (or 1:7/8 in 300 blk) but apparently that is pretty fast in 50 cal muzzleloaders

Does this limit what I can and can't shoot? I mean I imagine it does but what does that mean practically? Round balls patched ok? Conicals? Both? Neither?



That's a relatively fast twist for a .50 muzzle loader which pretty much limits a person to shooting conicals with hunting loads.

Patched balls can often strip the rifling if pushed too fast.
Hornady does make a sabot with .480 round ball called a "hard ball" that might work with a fast twist.
But I don't recall reading much of any feedback about them.
The sabot may help the ball to not strip the rifling when pushed at a higher hunting velocity.
Balls are something that need to be experimented with since muzzle loaders can sometimes contain surprises.
Perhaps a patched round ball would work from an archery tree stand distance.
If you can come up with a consistent combination of patch & ball, then it would first need to be proven on the range and then in the field so that a person doesn't waste their effort when it comes to crunch time and the deer is lost.

Fast twist rates are primarily intended for shooting sabots with bullets and for shooting bore size conicals.
The intended projectiles aren't much different than those designed for a rifled shotgun barrel, often encased in plastic.

[Jniedbalski]

1/28 It’s way to fast for round ball but my traditions shoot patched round ball decent. It’s designed to shoot the long lee real or the sabot bullets. I have shot the reals with 50 gr to 100 gr powder black or pyrodex. I tried 120 gr and accuracy went downhill and kicks way to much. Lyman Maxy also shoots good in my gun. I never tried using wads because my groups where good at 100 yards. The lee target mini and the regular mini shoot also very good. I got the lighter waight lee real mold in 50 cal but haven’t shot it yet. I thank the reason why I had good results with a round ball in a fast twist is because I kept the charge low 40 and 50 to 60 gr. I use 2 f or 3 f in my 50 cal triple f in my 36 cal.

[Jniedbalski]

Most muzzle loaders killed deer with a 40 to 60 gr max charge years ago .most 50 to 60 gr charge was a compleat pass through with a round ball. The only thing the 150 gr load does is extend range with the heavy long bullet. In the civil war it was recorded that a mini bullet fired at 700 yards with I thank a 65 gr charge of 1 1/2 or 2 f would compleatly pass through a Calvery horse long ways from front to back. I still thank the 100 gr charge is more than enuf. I tried the 120 to 150 gr charge and always went back to 50 gr for plinking to 80 to 100 for hunting. Just try different loads and see what shoots good

[John McCorkle]

1/28 It’s way to fast for round ball but my traditions shoot patched round ball decent. It’s designed to shoot the long lee real or the sabot bullets. I have shot the reals with 50 gr to 100 gr powder black or pyrodex. I tried 120 gr and accuracy went downhill and kicks way to much. Lyman Maxy also shoots good in my gun. I never tried using wads because my groups where good at 100 yards. The lee target mini and the regular mini shoot also very good. I got the lighter waight lee real mold in 50 cal but haven’t shot it yet. I thank the reason why I had good results with a round ball in a fast twist is because I kept the charge low 40 and 50 to 60 gr. I use 2 f or 3 f in my 50 cal triple f in my 36 cal.Bearing surface on that real bullet looks fairly small, would it have enough to grip on a fast twist rifle? I'm happy to keep the powder charge low...have no business shooting that far anyways with a muzzleloader

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[pietro]

.

A 1:28" twist rate is standard for frontstuffers designed to shoot saboted boolitts.

PRB's (patched round balls) work best with a twist rate from 1:50" to 1:70".

Many frontstuffers are made with a 1:48" twist, which is a compromise between the PRB & Conical twist rates, shooting both "OK", but neither optimally.


.

[John McCorkle]

.

A 1:28" twist rate is standard for frontstuffers designed to shoot saboted boolitts.

PRB's (patched round balls) work best with a twist rate from 1:50" to 1:70".

Many frontstuffers are made with a 1:48" twist, which is a compromise between the PRB & Conical twist rates, shooting both "OK", but neither optimally.


.Is there a cast boolits type/size that will work well with that fast of a twist? I'm guessing the same general rule apply for muzzleloader as for smokeless with barrel twist (longer the projo the faster twist that is required)?

From what I can tell the bearing surface is too small and lead too soft to grip and hold the rifling for round balls to be pushed fast enough to hunt with? What about low velocity loads for round balls ?

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[Odinbreaker]

use a 430 diameter bullet I cast a 300 gr 44 i put in a green sabot with 80 gr of tripple seven powder do all you want easys to clean and deadly

[charlie b]

My Lyman GPH has a 1:32 twist. The Lyman and your Rem are designed for sabot bullets but full bore bullets will also work as well. Your twist rate will stabilize bullets that are 'medium' weight (400-500gn).

I shoot paper patched most of the time, 450gn slicks from Buffalo Arms. I don't consider it to be a good group unless it is less than 2" at 100yd and get some smaller if I do my part.

When I don't want to mess with the paper I will go to Hornady Great Plains bullets (I think Lyman has a mold for them).

For both of these I size them to bore dia (in my case that is .502). Load powder, veggie card wad and lubed felt wad. The wads keep the powder from flowing past the bullet before it upsets into the grooves. I used 80gn of Pyrodex Select for the 450gn and 100gn for the Hornady's.

The Hornady/Lyman bullet are made to be used without a wad. They have two bore size bands and a groove size band that engages on loading (like the Lee REAL). As mentioned the Lee REAL is a decent one to start with.

You might also try the Lee .500S&W bullet mold. A few folks in here have had good luck with them, greased and paper patched (see the sticky thread on paper patching). Using the card and veggie wad is kind of a replacement for the gas check design.

Yes, you can use a patched round ball. Start with lower loads, 30 or 40gn, and work up from there until you get the accuracy you want. You will have to be more selective about patch and ball sizes. You have shallow grooves so a thinner patch might work better than thicker. Mine does OK with a .490 ball and .015 patch. This is 4 or 5" at 100yd kind of shooting at moderate velocity (40gn of powder in mine). Not what I would use for hunting.

[John McCorkle]

My Lyman GPH has a 1:32 twist. The Lyman and your Rem are designed for sabot bullets but full bore bullets will also work as well. Your twist rate will stabilize bullets that are 'medium' weight (400-500gn).

I shoot paper patched most of the time, 450gn slicks from Buffalo Arms. I don't consider it to be a good group unless it is less than 2" at 100yd and get some smaller if I do my part.

When I don't want to mess with the paper I will go to Hornady Great Plains bullets (I think Lyman has a mold for them).

For both of these I size them to bore dia (in my case that is .502). Load powder, veggie card wad and lubed felt wad. The wads keep the powder from flowing past the bullet before it upsets into the grooves. I used 80gn of Pyrodex Select for the 450gn and 100gn for the Hornady's.

The Hornady/Lyman bullet are made to be used without a wad. They have two bore size bands and a groove size band that engages on loading (like the Lee REAL). As mentioned the Lee REAL is a decent one to start with.

You might also try the Lee .500S&W bullet mold. A few folks in here have had good luck with them, greased and paper patched (see the sticky thread on paper patching). Using the card and veggie wad is kind of a replacement for the gas check design.

Yes, you can use a patched round ball. Start with lower loads, 30 or 40gn, and work up from there until you get the accuracy you want. You will have to be more selective about patch and ball sizes. You have shallow grooves so a thinner patch might work better than thicker. Mine does OK with a .490 ball and .015 patch. This is 4 or 5" at 100yd kind of shooting at moderate velocity (40gn of powder in mine). Not what I would use for hunting.This is super helpful thank you!

I'll check out the Lyman but Lee makes a real/rb combo mold...round balls may give me a chance to get used to the firearm and play with lower charges while the 320 grain could likely take a deer.

I guess the easiest option is to go with one of those great plains bullets or saboted round of some variety...not opposed to it - the tinkerer in me always comes back to anything I can diy I should while the pragmatist in me says just go with what is realistic....

You say Lyman makes a mold for a bullet much like the Hornady great plains?

Ultimately i think paper patching is a great option for me but a bit much to try and bite off and get decent results in just a month before taking aim at game...maybe for next season

Again thank you

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[pietro]

Is there a cast boolits type/size that will work well with that fast of a twist ?

[Yes, and there are also empty .50cal sabots available that accept .45cal boolitts, cast or j-word ]



I'm guessing the same general rule apply for muzzleloader as for smokeless with barrel twist (longer the projo the faster twist that is required)?

[ Partially, but the boolitt weight comes into play also]



From what I can tell the bearing surface is too small and lead too soft to grip and hold the rifling for round balls to be pushed fast enough to hunt with ?

[ the proper use of round balls is to wrap the rearward 3/4 with a patch (usually cloth), why they are referred to as PRB's (patched round balls). The hunting usage varies upon the game pursued and the diameter of the PRB. Only pure lead PRB's should be used, not an alloy - and many a .50cal PRB has long been used on larger game like deer, blackbear, and others you might find surprising.]



What about low velocity loads for round balls ?

[PRB's can be loaded to the velocity of your choice, like for hunting, or (optionally) for target shooting. The differences lie in different POI's, and energy (both muzzle energy & buttplate energy ;) ) ]





Just do it...……… :D

[quilbilly]

This is probably heresy to many of the traditionalists but since you already cast boolits for your smokeless powder handguns, you probably already have molds for 40, 44, and/or 45 calibers. While I shoot traditional patched round ball for deer, I have one side-lock rifle with a 1/28 twist (a T/C White Mtn. carbine) that shoots like a house afire with sabots and 429 caliber 255 gr semi wadcutters. It is my long range, deer/elk rifle. It routinely shoots 2 MOA at 100 yards with my iron sights (scopes not legal here). The load has always been 78 gr of 3F but recently I have had excellent results with the new BlackMZ blackpowder substitute from Allianz Powder in the same volume as the 3F. The BlackMZ powder will certainly be easier to find than traditional black if your neighborhood is like mine. If you investigate sabot+pistol boolits, my best results have been loading the boolit+sabot then greasing the bore heavily with a greased patch with one of the commercial muzzleloader bullet lubes. That might be your easiest way to get started and, who knows you might like it. That load and that sabot+pistol bullet has taken many deer and a few elk for me. Sabots can be found in 50 cal. for all three pistol calibers (color coded green for 429, black for 452, and ? for 400). Good luck and have fun. Muzzleloading can be addictive.

[rodwha]

Just do it...……… :D

I’m curious why you think alloys shouldn’t be used with a patched ball. On a traditional forum a lot of people use alloys, especially when wanting penetration on larger or more dangerous game. One fellow even tested brass balls and reused one. Now if you were speaking about cap and ball revolvers it would be a bit different, though alloys are still used there as well as long as the BHN stays under 10 or 11. Quite frankly I’ve been contemplating using 2% tin to help with fill out with REALs and pistol bullets.

[Hossfly]

John McCorkle, a book by Lt. James Forsyth, The Sporting Rifle and it Projectiles, is good reading.

[Loudenboomer]

John first thing I'd try is cast up a .429-240 gr or a .452-255 gr boolit of stick on wheel weights or pure lead put it in a appropriately sized sabot. Pour down 100 gr. of your favorite flavor FF or 2 pellets and give it a try. My sons have harvested a ton of deer shooting the Hornady .429-240 gr swaged SWCHP in the their 50 cals.

[John McCorkle]

John first thing I'd try is cast up a .429-240 gr or a .452-255 gr boolit of stick on wheel weights or pure lead put it in a appropriately sized sabot. Pour down 100 gr. of your favorite flavor FF or 2 pellets and give it a try. My sons have harvested a ton of deer shooting the Hornady .429-240 gr swaged SWCHP in the their 50 cals.For all the guys and casting I do, 45 cal is one caliber I have missed out in as of yet...I do 30 cal of all variety, 35 caliber of all sorts...even 224...but no 45 yet....I know I know I'm missing half the fun. I did order and get in a Lee mold for their 320 real bullet. It seems heavy enough that the fast twist would do ok pushing it hard enough to catch a whitetail....not looking for blazing speed just accuracy with enough on yhe business end to do the deed.

Haven't had a chance to warm up the pot yet....but collecting all the do dads I need to go shoot a bit (powder, 209 primers, measure, etc...) I also broke the rifle completely apart and am now giving it a complete and detailed clean before putting on a coat of Brownells alumahyde II...finish is pretty rough and this isn't necessary but a nice touch...hope to make this old bird sing!!

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[pietro]

I’m curious why you think alloys shouldn’t be used with a patched ball.




I know about making alloy boolitts.


Please consider that you're speaking from the viewpoint of a seasoned muzzleloader shooter.

I was addressing potential barrel leading with the OP, who said he isn't as experienced - adhering to the K.I.S.S. principle...……….


.

[charlie b]

This is super helpful thank you!

I'll check out the Lyman but Lee makes a real/rb combo mold...round balls may give me a chance to get used to the firearm and play with lower charges while the 320 grain could likely take a deer.

I guess the easiest option is to go with one of those great plains bullets or saboted round of some variety...not opposed to it - the tinkerer in me always comes back to anything I can diy I should while the pragmatist in me says just go with what is realistic....

You say Lyman makes a mold for a bullet much like the Hornady great plains?

Ultimately i think paper patching is a great option for me but a bit much to try and bite off and get decent results in just a month before taking aim at game...maybe for next season

Again thank you

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Here is the Lyman mould

https://www.lymanproducts.com/brands/lyman/bullet-casting/bullet-moulds.html?bulletnumber=1604

You might try the Hornady's before paying for the mould. They come already loaded with lube.

I have never liked sabots. I don't hunt so my range days are 20-40 rounds from the muzzleloader. Most sabots I have tried required a good cleaning after every shot to get good results. With the difficulty to load it makes for a long day at the range.

[pietro]

I have never liked sabots.

I don't hunt so my range days are 20-40 rounds from the muzzleloader.

Most sabots I have tried required a good cleaning after every shot to get good results.

With the difficulty to load it makes for a long day at the range.




IDK the bore size of your rifle, but I used inline's/sabot's for about 10 years before I went back to sidelock's, and never experienced those issues.

IME, sabot loading difficulty can often come from loading a boolitt that's too large (diameter) in the sabot - a mistake that's easy to make, since different (say .50cal) sabots have different I.D.'s, as either .44 (.429") or .45 (.457") boolitts can be used in a .50cal, with it's proper sabot.

Range shooting (20-40 rounds) will keep the barrel too hot to stop the plastic sabot material from softening & leaving reside in the bore (also exhibiting lousy accuracy) - unless the barrel is allowed to cool between every few shots, either naturally or via pouring cold water downbore.


.

[charlie b]

Yep, fully aware of all the issues with sizes of sabots and bullets. Still don't like them. Have tried them with inlines as well as traditional (with proper twist) including my current Lyman GPH.

I just really like paper patching now days and there are no issues with loading or shooting longer strings.

[John McCorkle]

Yep, fully aware of all the issues with sizes of sabots and bullets. Still don't like them. Have tried them with inlines as well as traditional (with proper twist) including my current Lyman GPH.

I just really like paper patching now days and there are no issues with loading or shooting longer strings.So I am very interested in paper patching...both smokeless and black powder.

Need to spend some more time over on the black powder paper patching forum here...been strapped for time rounding the end of the year but next season is calling my name.

What are your experiences with black powder pp? Easier to clean? Accuracy? Higher velocities than with standard patch or conical? I'm guessing some of the same general pluses apply for black powder paper patching as it does to smokeless?

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[John McCorkle]

Wads are used to help stop hot gases from blowing by the projectile through the rifling grooves.
Sometimes they improve accuracy and help to obtain more consistent results and sometimes they don't.

The Remington Genesis is the same rifle as the Traditions Yukon.
A small percentage of those rifles are known to have some potential quirks.
For instance, you may need to run a wet Q-tip on the face of the breech block to remove fouling if it begins to stick from accumulated powder residue.
One very accurate load someone discovered was a 350 grain Keith .430 bullet with a Harvester green sabot and 105 grains of Pyrodex RS.--->>> https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-powder/350289-remington-genesis-pure-lead-keith-nose-bullets.html

Yukon Owner's Manual--->>> https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/data/product_owner_manuals/Yukon%20Manual_1406058430.pdf

There's some threads with good information about both the Genesis and the Yukon on the Hunting dot Net black powder forum. These are the search results for the Genesis--->>> https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/search.php?searchid=2857604

Every rifle is different and while some may shoot bore size conicals well enough, a person can also cast a bullet of their choice for shooting with a sabot.--->>> https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/4163209-post7.htmlSo question, I have been scouring the interwebs to find a scope mount...

I have the two piece set up that comes with it....but these Weaver slots are very close to each other, I typically prefer to mount scopes on a 1 piece base with rings as far apart as I can to save wear or potential damage to the scope body should it get knocked, dropped, or hit...

I cannot find a good source of info in these as it's now discontinued...I went on a limb and ordered a durasight base I thought may work but it doesn't line up...

Remington customer service is out of office for training? So....you mentioned earlier this is the same as a traditions Yukon...is it exactly the same or is it similar the same? Or better yet what other bolt pattern scope bases will mount up to this lil fella?

Thanks again for your help

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[arcticap]

Yes, I'm relatively sure that the Yukon is the same gun just rebranded.
I found a 1 piece scope base for the Yukon from many sources but the same one is not listed for the Genesis.
However, I think that it's important that the screws fit the drilled & tapped threads.
The one piece mount is longer with 4 Weaver slots, if that's the right one for the Yukon as advertised, and it's sold by many retailers - #A1780.
However I can only hope that the screws have the same threads as needed for the Genesis.
There's always the possibilty that the holes and threads are different even though it's the same gun otherwise.
This vendor's feedback says that it fits the Yukon:--->>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Traditions-A1780-Scope-Mount-1-Piece-Base-For-Pursuit-Yukon-Models/312188808697?epid=2254273261&hash=item48afe72df9:g:zGwAAOSwKqBbSY8G:rk:1:pf:0

Others:

Newegg:--->>> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA13R45W7558&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC-_-pla-Archer+Full+Throttle-_-SG+-+Tree+Stands+%26+Blinds-_-9SIA13R45W7558&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0o-H79aE3wIVxIWzCh3kBgpREAYYAiABEgKC7vD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Optics Planet has 2 different mounts specifically for the Remington Genesis [DNZ one piece and Warne 2 piece steel]:--->>> https://www.opticsplanet.com/s/remington-genesis

Other feedback I've read said that the screws for the Yukon mount appear to be metric.
This mount fits more than one model of Traditions guns.
See what kind of info. that you can get from Traditions.
Let us know how it works out.

[charlie b]

So I am very interested in paper patching...both smokeless and black powder.

Need to spend some more time over on the black powder paper patching forum here...been strapped for time rounding the end of the year but next season is calling my name.

What are your experiences with black powder pp? Easier to clean? Accuracy? Higher velocities than with standard patch or conical? I'm guessing some of the same general pluses apply for black powder paper patching as it does to smokeless?

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Your first stop should be the sticky thread by idahoron. If you want more info then you can search back in this forum as there are quite a few threads about paper patching, a lot of them by ron. Then, if that doesn't scare you away, try some of the other forums that deal with long range muzzleloader shooting.

I find that the PP bullet is easy to deal with. About the only time it will be less efficient may be when trying to quickly load a 2nd shot.

Velocity depends on the bullet weight and powder charge. Everything else being equal the PP will probably have a bit more velocity. PRB can be faster since it is much lighter than most PP bullets. PP really does not come into it's own until the range goes out beyond 150yd. Even then you have to judge range accurately due the the high trajectory of the bullets.

Again, Ron is one of the sources who has repeatedly taken game at longer ranges with his side lock muzzle loader.

[John McCorkle]

Yes, I'm relatively sure that the Yukon is the same gun just rebranded.
I found a 1 piece scope base for the Yukon from many sources but the same one is not listed for the Genesis.
However, I think that it's important that the screws fit the drilled & tapped threads.
The one piece mount is longer with 4 Weaver slots, if that's the right one for the Yukon as advertised, and it's sold by many retailers - #A1780.
However I can only hope that the screws have the same threads as needed for the Genesis.
There's always the possibilty that the holes and threads are different even though it's the same gun otherwise.
This vendor's feedback says that it fits the Yukon:--->>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Traditions-A1780-Scope-Mount-1-Piece-Base-For-Pursuit-Yukon-Models/312188808697?epid=2254273261&hash=item48afe72df9:g:zGwAAOSwKqBbSY8G:rk:1:pf:0

Others:

Newegg:--->>> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA13R45W7558&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC-_-pla-Archer+Full+Throttle-_-SG+-+Tree+Stands+%26+Blinds-_-9SIA13R45W7558&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0o-H79aE3wIVxIWzCh3kBgpREAYYAiABEgKC7vD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Optics Planet has 2 different mounts specifically for the Remington Genesis [DNZ one piece and Warne 2 piece steel]:--->>> https://www.opticsplanet.com/s/remington-genesis

Other feedback I've read said that the screws for the Yukon mount appear to be metric.
This mount fits more than one model of Traditions guns.
See what kind of info. that you can get from Traditions.
Let us know how it works out.So originally bought the durasight for cva accuracy, optima, wolf....that one did not work. None of the holes lined up (only two at a time) and left too much beyond the breech for the swing to the side to open. That is part DS102b (did not fit Remington Genesis)

On your suggestion I bought the traditions a1780...that one DID work. Lined up perfectly. Screws mounted up well and all seems fine.

So if anyone else is looking for a one piece Weaver base for Remington Genesis muzzleloader...the Traditions Yukon and break open barrel mount part number a1780 works well.

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[arcticap]

I'm very glad to hear that it worked out.

We often take it for granted that a scope mount will be available until we need to find the right one.

Now that you found one make a lot of smoke and have fun!

[John McCorkle]

Got it all assembled again (took it all down to clean it up well)

Added a scope base (mentioned above for scope base that works for Remington Genesis)...rings and scope

Now time for load development! I'll cast up some REAL bullets and RBs tomorrow and take it out next week!

Thank you all again for your help on this one...never thought I'd be excited over black powder, but here I am...happy as a lark!!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181215/674e69ad0622d51f0b94f092134561b4.jpg

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[Hossfly]

Jan, 15 not far away,need to practice now you got it lined out, good luck.

[arcticap]

Nice rig.