Velo Dog revolver reloading

[danyboy]

anybody ever tried to reload for the Velo Dog 5.75 mm revolver ? What size case, bullet and load data ?
danyboy

[Bullshop]

Yes Sir we have more than a little bit of experiance there. Only our velodog revolver is a Ruger single six and is called a 22 ccm. You could also call it a 22 Manard extra long and it will still be the same cartridge.
Brass is available from Shroader Bullet works, and boolits from, well you know.
We have three of them here, the single six, a contender barrel, and one of the first Cooper mod 38 rifles to hit the streets. Also have a reamer if anyone has a mind to have something chambered for one. I sure like mine!
BIC/BS

[danyboy]

Bullshop,
Sorry for not thanking you any sooner for your info. Took me a while to make up my mind but just made an offer to get one of these velo dog revolver.
Not sure what you meant about bullets. Will try to find cartridge and load data somewhere on the net.
Danyboy

[TAWILDCATT]

some were I have a couple velodogs[cart]charles askins made a pistol HI STANDARD target to take cut down velo dogs .he was trying to shoot in a centerfire match. just a bit of history.:coffee:[smilie=1:

[BerdanIII]

From: The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions

5.5mm Velo Dog
45 gr. bullet - 4.7 grs. Unique - Vel. 650 fps

"There is nothing that will form to this case. Cases can be turned from solid brass, annealed, trimmed to length and F/L sized. Also, we have made cases by using ¼" tubing to re-body a .25 ACP case head"

I've got a real problem with the powder charge listed above. When I shot Hunter's Pistol Silhouette, one of my favorite loads in the .22 Hornet was 4.3 grs of Unique and a 46-gr. SP bullet. This load dimpled the chickens and pigs. Sharpe has 4.7 grs of Unique driving a 45-gr bullet at 1955 fps with a pressure of 34000 psi in the Hornet. This would be a pipe bomb load in a small, cheap revolver from the late 1800's and early 1900's. I don't know what the original cartridge was loaded with; maybe bulk smokeless or even black powder. Cartridges of the World has the Fiocchi factory load at 750 fps with a 45-gr bullet. I think the load for the .221 Askins in the quote below is probably closer to the mark.

From: Unrepentant Sinner, pp. 91-92.

"At that time the NRA rules said that in the centerfire category any pistol or revolver could be fired. Nothing was said about caliber, just so long as the handgun fired a centerfire round it was eligible.

I gave this considerable thought and it appealed to me that I would shoot better scores if I had a .22 centerfire. The .38 revolver has some recoil and in the rapid fire state this kick, slight tho it may be, disturbs the shooter and tends to lower his score. I theorized if I could simply develop a .22 that had no recoil at all I'd have the edge on the boys. I went to work.

Frank Kahrs, who was the public relations manager for the Remington Co. told me that the company had 2000 cartridges in the warehouse for the 5.5 Velo Dog revolver. This was a French caliber and the cartridge chambered in a 7-shot French revolver. It was a .22 caliber but the casing was three-eighths inch longer than the .22 rifle. Too, the head of the case had a big rim on it, much larger than the rim on the .22 long rifle. I had Frank ship me down the entire 2000 ctgs. and I pulled the bullets on a hundred of the rounds, chucked the casings up in a lathe and turned the heads down to .22 long rifle diameter; and then cut off each casing to exactly the length of the .22 rimfire ctg. Thereafter Harold Russell of the Federal Cartridge Co. shipped me 10000 bullets.

I had Howard Peters, a gunsmith, make up a set of loading dies and I put together the first of the .221 Askins cartridges. The powder was Bullseye and only 1½ grains constituted a loading. I shipped a Colt Woodsman off to Frank Pachmayer and this grand technician not only relocated the firing pin to strike center but also altered the extractor and ejector to handle the slightly thicker case head. I was in business."

If you need them, I can get the case dimensions from the cartridge conversions book noted above.

[leftiye]

Schroeder ( that Bullshop mentioned) makes them out of .22 Hornet cases. As bullshop says, they're pretty good quality. Schroeder is in San Diego. Makes them for $60 per hundred. You might want to ask him if there's any difference between the .22CCMs and the velo dog cases before you order. IIRC, there isn't any difference.

[TAWILDCATT]

my memory must have been bad as I thught he used a hi standard.so we all learn something.:coffee:[smilie=1:thevelodog is a staight case ? seems a hornet would be far to big.:coffee:[smilie=1:

[graybeard]

I just bought a 5.75 velo dog revolver. I found a box of Fiocchi ammo. Bought a die from CH Tool and Die. I opened a cartridge and found 1.7 grains of factory powder behind a 43 grain bullet. Then I fired another round into the ground. The powder, now against the bullet, when fired, caused a real explosion. I have heard of such, but it had never happened to me. The explosion caused a split case. Lucky that it was not worse!
But, since the factory load was only 1.7 grains, I would start my reload about the same as the load for the 25 acp cartridge.

[graybeard]

Now I need a bullet mold for the 5.75. The bullet measures .229 to .230 diameter and weighs 43 grains. I would like either a mold, some cast bullets, or some metal jacket bullets. I'm not particular.

[mroliver77]

BT Sniper might make you a swage die to bump .22 bullets up to .229". He hangs out mostly in the swageing forum

Am I correct in thinking that this is basically a center fire .22 magnum case? I had thought about fitting an NEF .22mag barrel to an extra CF frame and use the 5mm Rem CF brass opened up to .22. I found out it is straight inside and contoured on the outside so my idea would not work. I still think a CF .22 mag case would be a blast!
Jay

[Bullshop]

Say I just now saw that Swede Nelson has the newly release Lyman 107 copy available in .228" diameter.
That is a 37gn boolit at .228" diameter and should be good for your Velo Dog pistol. I bet they will drop from the mold at .229 to .230"
BTW if you have any brass to spare I would like to try a few of those. What brand is it and where did you get it?

[graybeard]

I have found 150 rounds of 5.75 Fiocchi ammo at a very dear price. I hope to reload the brass, so I wont have any to spare. Lots o Luck.

[Multigunner]

BT Sniper might make you a swage die to bump .22 bullets up to .229". He hangs out mostly in the swageing forum

Am I correct in thinking that this is basically a center fire .22 magnum case? I had thought about fitting an NEF .22mag barrel to an extra CF frame and use the 5mm Rem CF brass opened up to .22. I found out it is straight inside and contoured on the outside so my idea would not work. I still think a CF .22 mag case would be a blast!
Jay

I'm not certain but I think some one posted about a centerfire conversion of the .22 Magnum on this board quite awhile back.

I've not seen those but I have read that empty primed .22 Magnum cartridge cases were once available for those interested in custom loads.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I realize this is now an older thread... I've always wanted a reloadable 22 & looked at the Velo-dog many years ago... of course I was a day late & dollar short when it came to getting that new Fiocci ammo from the likes Sportsmans Guide & etc...

I reciently aquired an old anique Velo-dog revolver, & after finding ( now my 3rd box ) of ammo at expensive prices, I'm rethinking reloading that cartridge...

I have a very good buddy, retired tool & die guy, that I keep busy for cash work, who thought we could swag 5.7 X 28 cases into Velo-dog cases... but that didn't go very well, as there was too much material to start with...

reason to go there in the 1st place, is I have a stainless Taurus 8 shot 22 Magnum with adjustable sights, that I wanted him to convert to center fire ( he likes doing projects like that ) but thought I should have a source for brass before converting the revolver... which was probably good thinking, since 50% of my new Fiocci ammo splits a case if fired from the loose chambers of my old Velo-dog revolver...

so, we've decided to make 100 steel cases , to use in my newly converted revolver... 1st proto type rolled off his machine yesterday... in a modern stronger revolver, I should be able to load hotter rounds to mild Trailboss loads using cast bullets

thoughts ???

[salty dog]

Hello, I responded in the other thread (I am Griz over there) and it's good to know you haven't given up. Are the cases going to be machined from bar stock?

[Magnum Wheel Man]

yes... my buddy is into the alloys... ( I'm not a machinist, but wish I was ) I don't remember the number... our 1st choice, I think, is going to be 303 free machining stainless if we can get the correct diameter ( embarased... I think it was was 5/16 rod )... if not, we'll likely use another " free machining" steel alloy...

I was disapointed in the "shape" of the chambers in my Velo-dog... they don't look pitted or worn out, but they have fish bellys or at least loose tolorances enough, that I doubt I could reload any of the brass cases fired in that gun... I'm not a huge fan of those old folding triggers anyway, so I'll likely just put one box of ammo away to keep with the gun, & look at firing & reloading the brass cases with lighter pop gun cast loads in my newer revolver with the tighter chambers, & save the machined cases for 22 mag level loads

BTW... my buddy also makes up his own molds, he's going to modify a gas check mold cutter he used & make me a plain based 40ish grain 6 cavity mold...

... I don't post over here much, as I haven't started casting... yet... I inherited all my FIL's gear & have been collecting molds, & have about a ton of lead cast into ingots, that I helped my father in law do, before he died... so I've just been waiting to get my feet wet... now I have too many old guns that need boolits, that I'll be forced to start this next summer ( kicking & screaming... I guess ) LOL

[Chev. William]

This thread is OLD but needs an Update!
The .22 Hornet and 5.7x28mm CAN be used to form 5,5mm to 5,76mm Velo Dog cases via multiple-step swaging and then turning the rims somewhat.

Schroeder, in the San Diego area, makes .22CCM cases form .22 Hornet so it is a workable process.
Contemporary 1935 information on the 5,5 VeloDog cartridge recorded by Major J. S. Hatcher indicates the Case is 1.12" long, Rim diameter of .308", Rim thickness of .047", Body diameters of .248" at mouth and .253" at base, employed a Small Pistol Boxer style primer, and a 45 grain .48" long Jacketed bullet loaded to 1.35" overall length and yielded 760fps Muzzle velocity from a 2" Barrel and gave 56 ft.lbs. of Muzzle energy.

Modern CIP required European Standards only show the 5,76 Velo dog version as of 1986 drawing updated in 2000.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Today "Ammoguide Interactive" added the 5,5 Velodog cartridge, including a case Drawing, to their Cartridge Master Database. The Diagram is based upon measurements recorded by Major J. S. Hatcher and published in his 'Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers' in 1935.

They also added a second cartridge, the .221 Askins, today.

Chev. William