RCBS Charge Pro

[TNsailorman]

After many years and several thousand rounds measuring within 1/10th grain (checked on manual scales and with check weights each time), my RCBS Charge Pro electronic scales just died today. They were working just fine on Monday when I loaded about 75 rounds, but when I tried to get them working today, they were all over the board and would not hold zero or even weigh charge correctly. When I finally got the scale to zero and the powder dispenser light solid on, I pushed the calibrate button and it operated just fine---up to a point. One time through the procedure, it would calibrate and the light would come on solid that it was done. Then with the dispenser not turning, and the light on solid, and no powder going into the scale, the scale would continue to show weight increases of .1 grain about every 3 to 5 second. It would go up to about 6 grains and then start dropping a .1 of grain powder about every 3 to 5 seconds. Empty the pan and it would no longer show zero but anywhere from .6 to as much as 119 grain of weight of the empty scale pan. I worked for about an hour and a half trying to get the unit to work but nothing I tried worked and nothing in the instructions covers this type of problem. Guess I will have to go back to manual weighing and give this unit the deep six. As one member stated in another post, back to basics, james:sad::sad:

[Wheelguns 1961]

Call RCBS they just might surprise you.

[TNsailorman]

I decided to give the RCBS one more try. I plugged it back in this morning and zeroed and went through the start-up procedure as usual. Surprise! It started working like a charm. I test weighed 12 charges and they were all dead on or within .1 grain of the set charge weight (checked on a Lyman M4 scale that had been balanced out with a check set. I don't know what the problem was on the 21st but it is working now. My wife was charging up a cell phone about 20 feet away and that is a possibility on the crazy numbers I was getting. The temperature was down around 45 degrees in the room I was loading in and may have been a factor also. The temp was around 60 degrees in the room this morning. james

[earlmck]

Sometimes electronic goodies just have to be unplugged and plugged back in to straighten out their little brains. And there is also a little black god that rules them I believe.

[1hole]

I'm tired, in fact I'm so tired that I'm re-tired. I don't want to have to keep track of the accuracy of my powder scale. Everyone to his own tools choice. I really like to use my little Chinese digital scale ... for bullets and cases ... not for gun powder. I don't weigh powder charges for every reload but my long gun accuracy and hot charges will always be weighed to a tenth on a balance beam scale

Seems everyone who uses an electronic scale is happy with it ... until it craps out. The fickle finger of fate says some electronics will last a long time while some will die young but they will all die and we never know when. Thus, NO ONE has a "lifetime warranty" on electrical things, including RCBS. Or Dillon, etc. (I believe those two scales are guaranteed for one or two years.)

Electronics was my life long profession. I had very good job security for a long time because electrical devices are NOT reliable and I mean even costly state of the art stuff, not like the cheep Chinese stuff sold to the public. For 25 years I was a precision test instrument repair and calibration tech in the space program, tasked with maintaining some very expensive electronic measurement tools to National Bureau of Standards level. There is not and there will never be an electronic "powder" scale on my loading bench.

On the other hand, balance scales are reliable. They work off gravity. They don't need warm-up time, nor do they need to be used in a stable room temperature. They are not sensitive to near-by lightening hits. They are easy to zero and never drift in use. They are not sensitive to changing line voltages or magnetic influences during use. If harmful air drafts are present we can watch the effect immediately. Balances immediately follow trickled powder charges, there's no meaningful time lag and I really like that!

Which scales are "faster"? Magnetically damped balance scales will (usually) stabilize in 2-3 seconds and that's as fast as most electronic scales settle down.

Properly cared for, balance scales will last forever with no loss of sensitivity or accuracy. But, to be totally fair, other than those "few" little things, I admit digital scales are almost as good as balance beams - until they fail. And they WILL fail, it makes me tired just to think of them!

My trusty 50 year old Lyman M5 (made by Ohaus really) reads precisely the same today as it did the day I first opened the box.
That's nothing special because other balances of its basic type are just as good as mine. (I wonder who has a digital anything with that kind of reliability record? :) )

[MyFlatline]

^^ That's what makes the world go round,, Choices and/or opinions. I like my charge pro bunches..

[Jon K]

TN,
I recently went thru the same with my RCBS (had it 5 years) It was varing and I wasn't aware of it because I didn't compare it with another scale. Then it just died. The loads varied about 12-15 inches @ 500m & @ 600 yds. The new RCBS electronic measures are only 1 yr warranty.

When my new RCBS starts going, I'm going to get another Harrell's, and use a manual trickler. I should have never got rid of the Harrell's. Electronics are nice GADGETS, just one more thing to break, or burn out. Nothing like the old tried and true.

Jon

[Grmps]

I love mine for doing ladder tests.

Too bad I can't "turn off some people I know and turn them back on again :p[smilie=l::redneck:

[str8wal]

There is not and there will never be an electronic "powder" scale on my loading bench.

Nor mine. Lyman 55's and an RCBS 5-10 get it done for me.

[1hole]

Flatline, as I mentioned, EVERYONE loves his electronic gadgets ... as long as they work. I truly hope your auto-charger device lasts a long time but suggest you retain your old balance and a (good) powder trickler.

Sadly, for what it's worth for powder handling, I know of no commercial trickler I would strongly recommend; they all work but Redding's is the best I know of. (I finally gave up and made my own.)

[Markopolo]

I had a bit of trouble with my lyman auto thrower... turns out I just needed to lube the trickler, and reset the power... everything is back to normal... started giving me trouble after using Longshot. I attribute the malfunction to “learning curve”

[MyFlatline]

Flatline, as I mentioned, EVERYONE loves his electronic gadgets ... as long as they work. I truly hope your auto-charger device lasts a long time but suggest you retain your old balance and a (good) powder trickler.

Sadly, for what it's worth for powder handling, I know of no commercial trickler I would strongly recommend; they all work but Redding's is the best I know of. (I finally gave up and made my own.)

Trust me, I still have to beam to double check..

[dragon813gt]

Regardless of scale type they’re worthless w/out a set of check weights. Get a set if you don’t have them.

[PaulG67]

I use my RCBS Chargemaster a lot, so far so good after about a year and a half. I always check it with my RCBS 505 scale and it always matches up. Before that I used my RCBS Powder measure. it would be real easy to go back to that if I had to.

[TNsailorman]

I have always weighed each and every powder charge. I have 2 powder measures; one late 1950's Redding (with plum coloring), one RCBS (bought in the 90's). I have 3 powder scales; one is and old oil dampened Webster, one is an old oil dampened Redding, and the last one is a Lyman M4 bought in the mid 60's. I bought the Charge Pro when they first came out (a lust I could not control). I never believe one scale, measure, or the Charge Pro. I have a set of RCBS check weights and I check each scale or powder measure (I use 2--one to check the other) each time I use them. I started this method when I found my Dillon 550B powder measure was throwing charges with some light and some heavy as much as 1 grain of certain powders. This was in the 80's when I was shooting competition and getting serious about my ammo. I no longer compete (quite around 1990) and sold the Dillon 550. I now load as much for the fun of it as much as anything else. I like to think that each and every round I load is as close to perfect as my skill level will allow. My methods probably is not for everyone but I am a old happy dinosaur with them. my experience anyway, james

[1hole]

Are all powder scales "worthless" without a set of check weights? Why? Has anyone here ever found a balance scale to be off by any significant amount and, if so, how did you correct it?

I've been doing this longer than many people here have been alive. I have three quite old balances and one fairly recent digital. My original, 1965, Lyman (Ohaus) M5 has a single check weight (260.9 gr.) and, after weighing hundreds of pounds of powder, that scale reads EXACTLY the same now as it did the first time I used it; a 1970 Herter's and a 1997 Lee Safety Scale, both bought used, read the same. There being no way to adjust/calibrate beam scales anyway what am I missing or risking by never owning a set of check weights?

Even IF a room full of people were loading the "same" charge weight on several scales that varied a few tenths at some points between them, it wouldn't matter unless it's on the ragged edge of a KABOOM anyway ... and that should never happen.

IMHO, what a reloader desperately needs from his powder scale is precise repeatability. If he can know that a charge he weighs today is (within rational limits) the same as it was 15 years ago he has all he needs; balance scales do exactly that. I firmly believe that if a safe powder charge is 100% repeatable then knowing the precise weight of that charge is meaningless.

I've never seen or even heard of an undamaged balance scale changing over time (or room temperature, or power line voltage) and damage to a balance scale is easy to see. Sadly, none of that is true for electronic scales! I often hear/read of people who use their balance scale to keep their digital honest but have never heard of the reverse!

My seldom used digital scale is useful for weighing cases and bullets, not powder. And I own no set of check weights.

[dragon813gt]

If you don’t have a set of check weights you have no idea if your scale is reading correctly. It may be repeatable but that didn’t mean it’s reading correctly. Will this effect a load? Depends on how much it’s off.

If a beam scale is sitting on the shelf I doubt it will be damaged. Now if you take it in and out of the box to put it away often you increase the risk of damaging it. After seeing used reloading equipment it’s apparent that a lot of reloader don’t take care of their equipment.

Any measuring device needs to be checked and calibrated to keep them w/in spec. I have a lot of electrical meters that get sent out yearly for calibration. This a requirement for a lot of the sites I work at. Not saying you need to this w/ reloading tools but check weights are piece of mind.

[1hole]

But .... we all have access to commercial jacketed bullets we can use to check for massive scale error! And rough handling doesn't do electronic scales (or anything else) any good.

For some 15 years I was one of those people who calibrated, repaired and certified precision electronic test instruments to original specifications at Cape Canaveral so I know a bit about that - enough to know to not trust any such devices. All of the reloader digital scales I know of are Chinese "through away" tools and they will never see the inside of professional electronic cal lab. (There are good reasons the dig. scales only carry a one or two year warranty!) I really doubt anyone who is careless with his scale is a competent reloader and precision check weights are unlikely to help him.

Again, it's consistent - precisely repeatable - performance that reloaders need, not nit-picking accuracy; that's exactly what balance scales give us. And, point of fact, all I've ever seen ARE quite nit-picky.

The roots of brass case reloading as we know it goes back to at least the 1920s and few of those old guys blew themselves up. The first set of scale check weights I remember seeing was around the mid 1970s and I still don't know a soul who has them.

Okay, everyone to his own tools tastes and I'm happy for him. But posting that a powder scale of any kind is "worthless without a check set" cannot rightly be defended; that is just not true. I hate to see posts leading inexperienced new guys to spend hard earned money on meaningless fluff.

After some 50+ years of handloading I have and still love to tinker with a lot of uncommon reloading tools. BUT, I will never try to sell anyone else on the gimmicky little things I love because I know they won't help other's down range results or safety.

[Taterhead]

But .... we all have access to commercial jacketed bullets we can use to check for massive scale error! And rough handling doesn't do electronic scales (or anything else) any good.

For some 15 years I was one of those people who calibrated, repaired and certified precision electronic test instruments to original specifications at Cape Canaveral so I know a bit about that - enough to know to not trust any such devices. All of the reloader digital scales I know of are Chinese "through away" tools and they will never see the inside of professional electronic cal lab. (There are good reasons the dig. scales only carry a one or two year warranty!) I really doubt anyone who is careless with his scale is a competent reloader and precision check weights are unlikely to help him.

Again, it's consistent - precisely repeatable - performance that reloaders need, not nit-picking accuracy; that's exactly what balance scales give us. And, point of fact, all I've ever seen ARE quite nit-picky.

The roots of brass case reloading as we know it goes back to at least the 1920s and few of those old guys blew themselves up. The first set of scale check weights I remember seeing was around the mid 1970s and I still don't know a soul who has them.

Okay, everyone to his own tools tastes and I'm happy for him. But posting that a powder scale of any kind is "worthless without a check set" cannot rightly be defended; that is just not true. I hate to see posts leading inexperienced new guys to spend hard earned money on meaningless fluff.

After some 50+ years of handloading I have and still love to tinker with a lot of uncommon reloading tools. BUT, I will never try to sell anyone else on the gimmicky little things I love because I know they won't help other's down range results or safety.

Points well taken, but your 150 gr (+/- 1 gr) jacketed bullet is not going to do anything to assure that your scale is indicating correctly at 2.5 grains. We know that some of our cartridges have tiny differences between min and max, well within the tolerances of the weights of many commercial jacketed bullets.

Check weights from RCBS or Lyman are NOT expensive. Hardly meaningless or gimmicky. Beam scales are not infallible. No way of knowing without a standard to reference. Check weights are what enabled my buddy to know which of his scales was not working correctly, and for me to have confidence that both of mine are properly configured all the way up and down the range of weights.

[str8wal]

Points well taken, but your 150 gr (+/- 1 gr) jacketed bullet is not going to do anything to assure that your scale is indicating correctly at 2.5 grains. We know that some of our cartridges have tiny differences between min and max, well within the tolerances of the weights of many commercial jacketed bullets.

Check weights from RCBS or Lyman are NOT expensive. Hardly meaningless or gimmicky. Beam scales are not infallible. No way of knowing without a standard to reference. Check weights are what enabled my buddy to know which of his scales was not working correctly, and for me to have confidence that both of mine are properly configured all the way up and down the range of weights.

I agree. Check weight sets usually have a variety of sizes that can be combined to amount to the weight of whatever powder charge you are throwing, or close enough that you can dial in on the nut. My 5-10 has never failed me, but the check weights give me confidence.