Tested 32ACP on hog

[trapper9260]

Last night a farmer gave me a hog and I wanted to test my Kel Tec P32 on it with a 77gr RN .So I know shot placement is the thing. I did is shot it behind the head and it did nothing and then another toward the back of the ear .It just shook its head. Then behind the ear it drop. I found out what I was wonder about it.It is a cast bullet that I done and reload. The farmer was wonder at first if it would of put the hog down.I think him for let me test the round out. I did shoot a different one with the 9mm 120gr RN cast and that went down like the final shot of the P32. But was too loud in a close in area.
Was thinking some like to know about the round for my test.I know shot placement is always the the thing to do.

[Outpost75]

Colt 1903 Pocket Hammerless Model M with Accurate 31-077B flat nose and 3 grains of Unique, about 1000 fps works MUCH better.

You lose alot of velocity in the short barrel Keltec.

[popper]

They are kinda funny. This one was down but not out. Shot one with 40sw 165gr cast in top of head, between the ears. Then a second farther back on the head. This was after friend did with 180gr WWB 180gr 40SW in head. Not sure they know they are dead! So after being knocked down (still kicking) with 40SW, hit 3 times in the head he finally stopped looking at us.

[trapper9260]

Colt 1903 Pocket Hammerless Model M with Accurate 31-077B flat nose and 3 grains of Unique, about 1000 fps works MUCH better.

You lose alot of velocity in the short barrel Keltec.

Thank you for letting me know about this. I know there is a lost of velocity with the short barrel.I just wanted to see what will happened and found out. You gave me more ideas now to do. thank you

[Outpost75]

Thank you for letting me know about this. I know there is a lost of velocity with the short barrel.I just wanted to see what will happened and found out. You gave me more ideas now to do. thank you

Here are some velocity data comparing a 2.4" Beretta Tomcat to a 3.5" Beretta M1935

.32 ACP “WW2 Vintage,” Current Euro-CIP and Buffalo Bore +P Factory Ammunition

Ammunition ________________Beretta Tomcat 2.4”____Beretta M1935 3.5”
WW2 Geco Steel Cased FMJ____907 fps, 14 Sd_________977 fps, 11 Sd
WW2 WRA 73-grain FMJ______923 fps, 28 Sd_________1001 fps, 15 Sd
RWS 73-grain FMJ___________896 fps, 29 Sd__________981 fps, 16 Sd
Fiocchi 73-grain FMJ_________848, fps, 32 Sd__________917 fps, 11 Sd

Avg. 73-gr. FMJ Velocity______894 fps________________969 fps

Average “Hardball” Energy___128 ft.-lbs._____________150 ft.-lbs.

Buffalo Bore 75-grain LFN____883, fps, 6 Sd___________997 fps, 7 Sd
Buffalo Bore 75-grain Energy__128 ft.-lbs._____________164 ft.-lbs.

Loads exceeding 130 ft.-lbs. of energy are not recommended for use in Beretta Tomcat or Keltec Pistols

Full-Charge .32 ACP Handloads, Accurate 31-077B, Starline case, Fed. 100, OAL 0.955"

Ammunition _______________Beretta Tomcat 2.4”____Beretta M1935 3.4”

Acc. 31-077B 2.0 TiteGroup___790, 12 Sd_____________893, 19 Sd
Acc. 31-077B 2.2 Bullseye____757, 16 Sd_____________932, 24 Sd
Acc. 31-077B 2.5 Bullseye____835, 16 Sd_____________956, 18 Sd
Acc. 31-077B 3.0 AutoComp__837, 10 Sd_____________957, 16 Sd
Acc.31-077B 5.6 #2400_____892, 26 Sd_____________998, 22 Sd - Approximates Buffalo Bore
Acc. 31-077B 3.0 Unique_____965, 26 Sd____________1007, 19 Sd - Approximates Buffalo Bore

[trapper9260]

Thank you for your data Outpost75. You always there to help me in the past. Give me more of a idea for all I can do with the round.

[Hickory]

When I was in my early teens I was at the neighbors when they were going to kill & butcher a young steer. It was tied to a fence and everything was ready.
The old man, about 50 years old, stood on the lower rail of the fence with a 22 revolver in hand. The steer had an X drawn on its forehead, the farmer placed the gun within 2" of its head and squeezed the trigger.
What happened next was something to be seen.
The steer lunged forward through the fence, turning the man up-side-down, running its horn under his belt and into his pants leaving him helpless as the young steer ran off shaking and bobing its head up and down.
Then about 70 yards out we heard a popping sound as the farmer was shooting into the ear of the irate steer. By the time I got to the down steer it was dead and the farmer was doing his best to extract himself from the steers horn.
The farmer staggered to his feet and pulled down his pants to check for damage and there was damage.
He was rushed to the hospital and I decided it would be a good idea to go home.
The farmer recovered after 10 or 12 days in the hospital, the steer was butchered the same day it died and I learned that a 22 is not always the best caliber for the job.

[Green Frog]

It would be impossible to determine how many head of livestock have been successfully slaughtered using 22 rimfire in a handgun or single shot rifle. Proper placement of the shot is vital, and catching the animal unaware (not in fight or flight mode already) is also a good idea! I'm not that familiar with the use of the 32 ACP for slaughter duties, but for assassination, it works pretty well in the Welrod and other such specialty weapons. Looks like with proper placement, this caliber also should work in the slaughter pen.

froggie

[Bulldogger]

I've read time and again that a .22lr shot right into the ear or the neck near the spine will kill or disable even larger animals. I think any of us who grew up in farm country has a story like that one about the farmer and an X on the forehead.
In my case, yeah I grew up in farm country, a local hardware store owner had a decent size parcel of land and decided to get one of those micro herds of bison from the U.S. Park Service (or whomever does that). During annual culling/butchering season he used a .243 or something high velocity like that to knock the bison steers down with close range headshots. Local bubba helping him said, "that's nothing, watch what a Colt .45ACP does right between the eyes". The fella leveled his Colt between the steer's eyes and pulled the trigger. The steer just blew blood out its nostrils and proceeded to chase him down. A bison has short little legs, but I've heard tell when angry they can run about >20mph for short distances and a close friend saw one use those little legs to clear jump an 8' fence. (It broke all 4 legs on landing BTW.)
Well the guy was running like his life depended on it (it did), and the bison was running because he was madder than a wet cat, and the farmer was running racking the bolt on his rifle hoping for a clear shot!

In the ear, so they listen, that's my plan if I ever find myself in that position...

BDGR

[Hossfly]

When I was in my 20’s my fil raised 7 hogs fed out on corn. He asked if I would help him process them. Oh yea, I brought my Ruger single 6 with 22 long cyl. I watched my grand pa kill a suffering mule once, it dropped instantly with 22 single shot. So I asked him where do you shoot and he said, draw an imaginary line between eye and ear and where cross is that is the thinner part of skull. It worked very well, all hogs dead, all 7, at just over 1 hour. Each then stuck under neck to heart with German dagger, and bled out instantly. Shot placement is every thing, noticed on one that wasn’t perfect tho, hog died like the rest but the projectile came out his ear, and spun in the dirt at my feet.
Do not recommend doing this many at one time, we had our work cut out for us for the next 2 days, that’s a lot of ham, pork chops, sausage and bacon.

[6thtexas]

Colt 1903 Pocket Hammerless Model M with Accurate 31-077B flat nose and 3 grains of Unique, about 1000 fps works MUCH better.



I use this very load in my 1903 Colt to dispatch sheep for slaughter. On a downward angle the bullet will penetrate the head (including the horn boss on a young sheep) bust the jaw and plow into the ground. I cast the 31-077B out of COWW. The next time the Colt is in my pocket and I get close to a feral pig we'll see what it does...

[gwpercle]

My grandfather killed both feral and pen raised hogs with a single shot 22 LR rifle many times .
In Louisiana a Boucherie' (killing and slaughtering a hog) was like a big party .
We like to party and eat !
He placed one slug through the hog's ear hole so it would range into the brain. He told me "it's not what you shoot them with....it's where you shoot them" .
Gary

[trapper9260]

When I was in my early teens I was at the neighbors when they were going to kill & butcher a young steer. It was tied to a fence and everything was ready.
The old man, about 50 years old, stood on the lower rail of the fence with a 22 revolver in hand. The steer had an X drawn on its forehead, the farmer placed the gun within 2" of its head and squeezed the trigger.
What happened next was something to be seen.
The steer lunged forward through the fence, turning the man up-side-down, running its horn under his belt and into his pants leaving him helpless as the young steer ran off shaking and bobing its head up and down.
Then about 70 yards out we heard a popping sound as the farmer was shooting into the ear of the irate steer. By the time I got to the down steer it was dead and the farmer was doing his best to extract himself from the steers horn.
The farmer staggered to his feet and pulled down his pants to check for damage and there was damage.
He was rushed to the hospital and I decided it would be a good idea to go home.
The farmer recovered after 10 or 12 days in the hospital, the steer was butchered the same day it died and I learned that a 22 is not always the best caliber for the job.

The way I normal do cattle is use a sledge hammer between the eyes on the forehead and then slit the neck. Let them bleed out.

[Loudenboomer]

I've put down many butcher hogs with a .22. What really does the work is a 7 inch knife to the throat at the instant they go down. Nearly all the .22 work was with a rifle. I thought .22 hand guns performed just a little under powered. The last few hogs we butchered I used factory Federal Std. Vel. 158 gr RN out of my Blackhawk. That became my favorite tool for the job.

[Ranch Dog]

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/bin/TL31475RF/bullet/TL31475RF.jpg

With my TL314-75-RF, I've killed one free-ranging feral hog at seven to ten yards with a shot immediately aft of the last rib, angling forward. The hog was walking away from me and dropped immediately and was dead in four or five seconds. It surprised me just about as much as it did him. I also killed 12 I had trapped in a hog panel pen surrounding a deer feeder. They all moved to the backside of the pen, about 21', and all were shot in the head. None required a second shot. I did take a bit of time doing this so they didn't get stirred up. The shot out in the open with this cartridge is rather quite. I've also killed free-ranging hogs with the 380 & 45 Auto, and the 9mm Luger & Makarov. I've always wanted to kill a hog with my 25 Auto, just haven't wandered into the opportunity.

[popper]

next time the Colt is in my pocket and I get close to a feral pig we'll see what it does... It will either charge or run away. :kidding: Friend tried to shoot cage released hog that turned around with 40sw, jammed and he racked the slide REAL fast to put it down. Had a vid of he & she emptying 9mm mags on a released 150#. 30 rnds & it finally went down. Shot placement counts but most of the time you don't get to pick the shot.
Edit: RD I started with your LEE for the 30/30 Marlin, did great but modified it with slightly smaller meplat, reduced L.G. for powder coating. 185gr. Works great from my AR BO pistol & the Marlin. Guessing it runs 1700 ish from the pistol. Have a 170gr PB version that is great too.

[Outpost75]

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/bin/TL31475RF/bullet/TL31475RF.jpg

With my TL314-75-RF, I've killed one free-ranging feral hog at seven to ten yards with a shot immediately aft of the last rib, angling forward. The hog was walking away from me and dropped immediately and was dead in four or five seconds. It surprised me just about as much as it did him. I also killed 12 I had trapped in a hog panel pen surrounding a deer feeder. They all moved to the backside of the pen, about 21', and all were shot in the head. None required a second shot. I did take a bit of time doing this so they didn't get stirred up. The shot out in the open with this cartridge is rather quite. I've also killed free-ranging hogs with the 380 & 45 Auto, and the 9mm Luger & Makarov. I've always wanted to kill a hog with my 25 Auto, just haven't wandered into the opportunity.

Michael,

I find it HUGELY interesting that the Colt 1851 Navy, with its .375", 80-grain lead round ball and 20 grains of 3Fg black powder, killed multitudes of bad guys in its day, and very closely approximates the velocity and energy of a .32 S&W Long revolver, or heavy-bullet .32 ACP mousegun, about 850 fps...
A standard sized .32 ACP pistol with 3.5 to 4" barrel gets another 100 fps or so. There is little difference between the ballistic performance of modern handloads in the .32 ACP and .32 S&W Long, or factory loads in the .32-20 Winchester, .32 H&R Magnum and .380 ACP in terms of their payload and velocity. Max. bullet weight in the .32s is typically 90-100 grains, with an actual velocity readily attainable of about 900 fps. when fired from a compact pistol or revolver with 3-1/2" to 4-inch barrel.

While the light alloy frame .32 ACPs are not durable given heavy use with such loads, sturdier steel framed ones like the Colt 1903, CZ27, CZ50, Beretta M1935, and Walther PP have no issues. Replacing the stock recoil springs in the Beretta or Walther with the .380 ACP version for the same model reduces wear and tear on the gun and makes them "softer" to shoot.

[Schreck5]

Many years ago i learnd a valuable leason when using a .22 lr pistol for dispatching any kind of farm animal.....DON'T. A .22 rifle, however, will work just fine with a shot behind the ear. Just my opinion and experience.

Bruce

[Texas by God]

I shot a sick cow with a 22-250 in the head and got my placement wrong. She was still alert with her head up when Dad hit her 1-1/2" lower and instantly killed her with his Nylon 66. Straight line between the eyes; then up 1" seems to be the spot. I've emptied lots of pig traps with pistols and if I do that shot; they drop.

[sutherpride59]

Best thread I’ve read in a while gentlemen

[trapper9260]

For what I did to start this post was just a test to see what that round would do to a hog. Outpost explain to me better for how to do it with the 32acp. I found out what I wanted till the next type of round I want to test out. The hog was going no matter what was going to happened. The farmer said about use of his 22 rifle.But I wanted to do what I did.It was nice to see what the out come was after.

[beagle]

Was sitting in the kitchen one frosty morning drinking coffee and a farmer friend I went to church with came by and asked me to kill a steer he had down sick as the neighbor that usually killed them for him was busy. I picked up my Marlin M1894 and some .357 Mag loads with the 358429. We went over to his place and I walked around the corner of the barn and here this steer is down. Looked dead to me but I popped it three times in the back of the head to be sure. Twitched a little on the first shot. Several other steers in the lot were getting nervous and tromping around. We closed the gate and he said he'd get it with the tractor later. Went up to the local garage where we hung out and moved in and sat by the fire. The owner came in and told my buddy that he'd found time to go by and shoot the downed steer. We busted out laughing and told him what had happened. That steer was killed twice. No wonder the rest of the steers in the lot were nervous. Guess with that twice over killing, they figured they'd be next./beagle

[Bigslug]

Michael,

I find it HUGELY interesting that the Colt 1851 Navy, with its .375", 80-grain lead round ball and 20 grains of 3Fg black powder, killed multitudes of bad guys in its day, and very closely approximates the velocity and energy of a .32 S&W Long revolver, or heavy-bullet .32 ACP mousegun, about 850 fps...

There is some strange brew percolating there, make no mistake. Ranch Dog has been demonstrating that even his small diameter pocket pistol bullet designs are humane killers of hogs in the right conditions, and we THINK that this is down to large meplat, high sectional density, and good penetration - probably using alloys that are a bit on the hard, non-expanding side of the scale.

Then you've got Elmer Keith (who was very much of the above mindset and a pooh-pooher of pocket pistol cartridges) complimenting the effectiveness of the 1851 Navy Colt - which is about as polar opposite that formula as you can get - in Sixguns. It lacks speed, sectional density, meplat, and mass. Makes me a bit curious.

This thread prompted me to look up the Wikipedia on Bill Hickok's shootings. While it isn't mentioned which of them were specifically with his '51 Colts, a heart shot from 75 yards and numerous head shots would seem to back up the premise that, after accuracy, all else is petty details. It does make one wonder if all the .32 needs to be a serious contender is better sights and more radius between them.

[Tracy]

Last time I slaughtered a hog I used a 195 grain 358430 from a .38 Special snubby. Down through the skull, out the lower jaw and several inches into the ground. Hog dropped, DRT.

[georgewxxx]

The local slaughterhouse used to use .22LR in a rifle for everything except bison. Bison needed one round from a M1 carbine. They wanted to switch from the .22 to .357, and asked about a single shot rifle for that, but they had a cheap 12 ga single shot on hand, so I ordered a .357 chamber insert, and they never looked back. You always have to mindful as to where the slugs will end up.

Getting close to the head of a caged critter with a pistol can get iffy. They see that had coming at them and get excited, swinging their head around where a fatal hit gets chancy. Shotgun barrel don't seem to bother near as much.

[Outpost75]

There is some strange brew percolating there, make no mistake. Ranch Dog has been demonstrating that even his small diameter pocket pistol bullet designs are humane killers of hogs in the right conditions, and we THINK that this is down to large meplat, high sectional density, and good penetration - probably using alloys that are a bit on the hard, non-expanding side of the scale.

Then you've got Elmer Keith (who was very much of the above mindset and a pooh-pooher of pocket pistol cartridges) complimenting the effectiveness of the 1851 Navy Colt - which is about as polar opposite that formula as you can get - in Sixguns. It lacks speed, sectional density, meplat, and mass. Makes me a bit curious.

This thread prompted me to look up the Wikipedia on Bill Hickok's shootings. While it isn't mentioned which of them were specifically with his '51 Colts, a heart shot from 75 yards and numerous head shots would seem to back up the premise that, after accuracy, all else is petty details. It does make one wonder if all the .32 needs to be a serious contender is better sights and more radius between them.

That has been my experience and was the rationale behind "The Infamous Bunny Gun"

230896230897

[Ranch Dog]

The "Bunny" pocket pistol is a different take on sights!

The first hog I killed with a pocket pistol was with my TL358-125-RF, a bullet designed for the 380 Auto, shot with a Jimenez Arms JA380. I carried that pistol in a slide holster while working on the ranch. It was the end of September, and I was walking a two-mile "Hahn" deer census line across the length of my place. You time the walk to finish it as dark so that you cross the area during the highest time of activity. My dad would drop me off on one end and then pick me up on the other at dark. The last couple hundred yards of the line paralleled a creek that ended in an old set of cattle pens on the highway. The hogs always liked the pens; there was a water trough and a lot of good "eat'ns" grow out of cattle poop.

Anyway, as soon as I start along the creek, I started having hog problems, big hog problems. The line was along a small, single service powerline, and I got to a point where there was a huge hog digging at the base of a bush, he hadn't seen me nor I him until we were about 5 yards apart (our brush is thick). I talked to him softly as I didn't want to startle him, he looked up at me and waddled off. From there, there were hogs scattered down the length of the line. Hogs can be very docile at night, and that is why I like hunting them then. As I approached the pens, I could see my dad's parking lights at the highway gate, but durn if there wasn't another large hog just outside the trap funnel. He didn't appreciate my attempt at friendly banter. I'm smart enough to have already had the gun up and when he bowed up, head on about 5 yards, I knelt to get below his head and shot him square in the chest. If you don't think a wide meplat from a 125-grain bullet at 900 FPS isn't impressive, well, you're wrong. It set him back on his can, and he peeled off into the brush. He was a 200 ~ 225 lb hog. It got my motor running, and I beat it to my dad's van. The why behind not shooting him in the head straight on is based on my experience. I've seen too many large bullets glance off hog's heads in my lifetime. If you ever look at a skull, pay attention to all the angles. I've seen 444 Marlin bullets ricochet. I won't look for a hog when a hunter tells me that he shot it in the head and it is not laying DRT. I've been rolled around a couple of times, and that is a number one rule for eliminating a grand chance at that adventure.

The next day, I head to town, and when I get a mile down the road, abeam the pens, it is loaded with buzzards. I walked in, and about 15-yards inside some dense blackbrush is the hog. It had bothered me that I did not hear him crashing through the brush, and I thought it might be he was regrouping, but he was dead. My guess, as the birds had already made a mess, was blunt force trauma.

The 125-grain bullet ended up placing too much recoil energy on the alloy pistols, I cracked the frame on the JA380 (JA replaced it for free without question), so I designed a 100-grain bullet for the small pistols. All my pistol bullets had been cast with a Lyman #2 clone alloy and water quenched. Honestly, I don't want them expanding, I want the 72% meplat to do its work and from my experience; 25 Auto to 45-70 Govt, it does. Just because of my alloy stock, I now cast all my pistol bullets with 4/6 linotype/WW and water quench them for 21 BHN. My rifle bullets go the other way to even out the stock, 6/4, quenched 29 BHN.

I shoot the 125-grain bullet with my Taurus PT-138 Millenium Pro and the 100-grain from the TCP. I have two 32 Autos, a Millenium Pro and a TCP as well.

[redriverhunter]

I shot a 3/4 grown hog, about 18 inches from the hog, low and behind the should with a .380 out of a Ruger lcp, ammo pmc starfire 90 gn. I got no pass through, hog ran around for about a minute and then laid down, and it took about 3 min. to expire from start to finish. I had wondered about the effectiveness the 380 as self defense round.