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w30wcf
12-02-2005, 06:41 PM
BruceB,

Thank you for the information on your faster twist 36 Marlin posted back in June.

"It's a 1947 Model 36, NOT 336, with the flat bolt carrier like a '94 Marlin. Ol' Gringo and I have similar-vintage rifles, and he contacted Marlin directly, where he learned that the tighter bores and FASTER TWIST were standard in their .32 Specials. Instead of the Winchester .32 Special twist of 1-in-16", we have 1-in-10" in our late-'40s Marlins, which means (as I think sundog pointed out) we really have fat .30-30s!"

A friend of mine is seaking an older 336A (pre microgroove) based on information that he got from talking to someone at Marlin who told him they were 1 in 12" twist. He wants to try heavier (200+) gr. bullets which would stabilize in the faster twist.

However, Brophy's book on Marlin Firearms indicates 1 in 16" for 36's and 336's. I found someone who owns a 336A .32 Special made in 1948 and he checked his twist and it is 1 in 16".

Do you think that all 36's might have the 1 in 10" twist as your rifle does or do you think that maybe Marlin fitted 8mm "J" bore barrels on some '36's?

Thank you for any additional information that you could provide.

Sincerely,
w30wcf

C1PNR
12-02-2005, 11:01 PM
Do you think that all 36's might have the 1 in 10" twist as your rifle does or do you think that maybe Marlin fitted 8mm "J" bore barrels on some '36's?

Thank you for any additional information that you could provide.

Sincerely,
w30wcf
I don't know about Marlin, but the very first Winchester '94 I bought in "32 Special" (gun show find) came with a Mauser 8mm barrel!:confused:

I immediately unscrewed it and substituted an octagon in 32 Special, but I've thought about that quite a bit over the years.

There had to be a ton of those surplus barrels around.

Dr. A
12-04-2005, 09:04 PM
Jack,

I assumed mine (336A) 1955 was a 1 to 16. I measured the bore again, and found .3198 groove with a 1 to 16 twist. Shoots cast very well.

beagle
12-04-2005, 10:22 PM
My 336A .32 Special is a 1-16 twist with cut rifling. About a 1949 model. Shoots .321 bullets great./beagle

w30wcf
12-07-2005, 09:42 AM
C1PNR, Dr. A, Beagle,

Thank you for the additional information. I appreciate it.

Now I am wondering if all the 36's have the faster twist barrels or a select number that may have been fitted with 8MM "J" barrels(?).

Sincerely,
w30wcf

BruceB
12-07-2005, 11:06 AM
Sorry, I dunno how I missed this thread.

When Ol' Gringo spoke directly to Marlin, I don't believe they told him anything about using barrels that were originally intended for anything else, such as an 8mm or whatever. Mine does slug at .318 or .319 IIRC, and I had Stillwell make me a .319 sizer. The whole .32 "thing" has been neglected on my bench for too long, and I have to get back at it, 'specially since I've mounted a Redfield receiver sight and a Lyman 17 target front sight (interchangeable apertures, a great help for my aging peepers).

Marlin DID confirm the undersize bore diameter and the quicker 1-in-10" twist rate. However, that situation must have existed for only a fairly short time, since we're hearing that late-40s-vintage .32 Specials do in fact have the correct 1-in-16" twist.

Sundog said it best at the time: what Ol' Gringo and I have are "fat.30-30s", and that isn't such a BAD ballpark to play in....except that the slower twist is apparently desireable for cast boolit loads, and that is the reason I bought the .32 rifle in the first place. Well, I think I'll keep an eye out for one of those SEXY half-magazine Marlins in .32. A feller can't have too many nice rifles, after all, and oooooh....that shorter tube along with a pistol-grip stock just SPEAKS to me! A M64 Winchester would probably suffice, too.

StarMetal
12-07-2005, 11:10 AM
Another thing the 32's have, at least the Winchesters I've examined, are shallower rifling grooves...as compared to the 30-30. So to me it seems someone didn't have their hat on straight when making up the 32. Now the old story supposely is that Winchester came out with the 32 as a dual purpose round meant to be loaded with either smokeless or blackpowder. With what we know about shooting lead today, shouldn't the 30-30 had shallower grooves for jacketed and the 32 deeper for lead?

Joe

felix
12-07-2005, 11:15 AM
Yep, condoms work best with shallow grooves, and vice versa for boolits. ... felix

hydraulic
12-10-2005, 11:16 PM
My 1917 Winchester '94 26inch barreled rifle had the 32 Special sight which was graduated on one side for smokeless and black on the other. The story I heard was that shooters were reloading their smokeless .30 wcf shells with cheaper black, back around the turn of the century, which were not accurate, so Winchester made the .32 Special with shallow grooves so it could be used with either black or white. Think there's anything to that story?

JDL
12-11-2005, 09:53 AM
hydraulic,
I believe it was w30wcf, who had a history of the .32 S. posted and IIRC, it was disigned to fit between the .30 WCF and the .30-40 powerwise. -JDL

w30wcf
12-16-2005, 11:36 PM
Thank you BruceB and others for the additional information.

Hydraulic, AsJDL indicated, I have posted the historic information on the .32 Special taken from Winchester's Jan. 1902 catalog which follows. Actually, the .30-30 loaded with Swiss Black powder (close replicaton of the black sporting powders of the late 1800's-early 1900's) doesn't do badly at all in my experience. I've attained 1,600 f.p.s. with a 160 gr. bullet using Swiss 3F with decent accuracy.

In fact, along with smokeless, early Marlin catalogs recommended some black powder loads for the .30-30 ..... and Savage offered a factory .303 Savage black powder loading with a paper patched 190 gr. bullet.

My feeling is that Winchester chose the .32 caliber because the
.32-40 was a time proven b.p. cartridge, so Winchester wisely decided to use the same bore diameter because it was very familiar to many sportsmen. Now, the new .32 W.S. was a cartridge that could be used with either propellant, so if they didn't like the smokeless loading, all was not lost.

From Winchester's Jan. 1892 catalog:

“The .32 Winchester Special Cartridge, which we have just perfected, is offered to meet the demand of many sportsmen, for a smokeless powder cartridge of larger caliber than the .30 Winchester (.30-30) and not yet so powerful as the .30 U.S. Army (.30-40), which could be reloaded with black powder and give satisfactory results. The .32 Winchester Special Cartridge meets all of these requirements. Loaded with Smokeless powder and a 165 gr. bullet, it has a muzzle velocity of 2,057 foot seconds. With a charge of 40 grs. of black powder, the .32 Winchester Special develops a velocity of 1,385 foot seconds, which makes it a powerful black powder cartridge .”

w30wcf