Sabot Technologies

[Ranch Dog]

I guess slugs are getting under my skin. I'm going to give these a try. I bought the completed Hammerheads.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/ST_hammerhead_01.jpg

Plus, the mold and sabots.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/ST_hammerhead_mold.jpg

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/ST_hammerhead_02.jpg

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/images/ST_hammerhead_mold_02.jpg

Everything is here, I will start with the finished sabots this week.

[jmort]

http://www.slugsrus.com

Link with some techinal data and load data. There are a couple threads with tnese somewhere in here I believe. Will be interested to see what you get with them.

[Ranch Dog]

Couldn't stand it, I shot three.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/targets/111918_01.jpg

[Ranch Dog]

I had to use a six-star crimp on the three shots above, Sabot Tech notes to use a roll crimp. I have the BPI roll crimp, haven't used it much but have yet to have it roll a good crimp whether it be used with a drill press or either one of my two drills. I've watched their videos and read everything, I'm come on, this is pretty simple. I googled problems with the tool, funny first result.

"Take the roll crimper from BP in your dominant hand, walk over to the garbage can, and throw it in. Sorry, but that is the only fix for that head unless you can convince them to take it back. BP has some really good tools, but those heads are barbaric."

Not to concerned with it as there were pages of similar results. I bought the crimper that Sabot Tech offers, it was half the price of the BPI.

[Ranch Dog]

Yesterday, I shot three of the BPI roll crimped ST slugs; they are somewhere among the taped over holes (not all visible in the cropped image).

I thought I had taken a picture of the roll crimp I've applied with a drill press and two different drills, but it looks like I didn't. What I see is that the crimp is not a consistent thickness and depth down the sides viewed through a clear hull. I believe that their crimper takes too long to get hot and once it does, it gets way too hot. I don't like the light "thump, thump, thump" of the single pin bumping during rotation. They have their improved "ExactaRoll" double pin crimper, and maybe that came about to eliminate the bump. Here is what the hulls look like after the shot.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/Slugs/images/BPI_roll_crimper.jpg

Maybe there is something wrong with the pin on mine. I will have the Sabot Tech roll crimper in hand on Wednesday; I want to see how it does before I talk further to BPI about theirs. Don't get me wrong; I'm a BPI fan, they make shotgun reloading a lot easier. As a side note their Slug Manual has the crimp instructions wrong. There it tells you that the rotation is counter-clockwise vs. the clockwise rotation with the crimper package and in the video. The angle of the pin confirmed the clockwise rotation, viewed when holding the drill. I do use the BPI Hull Vise.

[jmort]

With that good of a group, I would keep doing what you are doing. I have gone to fold crimping most everything. The BPI fold crimp starter for MEC reloaders really works well on new hulls. I got them for both of my SizeMasters. The Lee press has a crimp starter as you know. I find the 6/8 crimp better all around, from reloading to shooting to hull life.

[Ranch Dog]

That's what I've been thinking, at least a "shoot off" between star and roll (once I have the ST crimper in hand).

[Ranch Dog]

I picked up some Longshot today, one of the powders on their load data I did not have. The 3" hull data is my interest.

https://saas.shopsite.com/wer890on/media/handload/ss_size1/12gaSPW-LoadData_7-2016-web.jpg

[Ranch Dog]

Have them loaded up with Longshot, both 2¾" and 3", six-star and roll crimps.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/images/ST_hammerhead_04.jpg

[gpidaho]

RD: I think you are right about the single pin roll crimper from BPI, pretty much junk. I bought their improved version with two pins and it works a little better. A friend here at Boolits sold me an extra Lyman he had on hand. (thanks Scott) and I haven't used the BPI roll crimpers sense. They do melt the cases enough that I have to cut the hulls down. (BPI) Gp

[Ranch Dog]

The shooting with Longshot went great.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/targets/112318_03.jpg

I'm trying to figure out why the mouth of the roll crimped hulls are so beaten up after the shot? For a roll crimp, what is the optimal depth of the surface of the slug below the hull mouth? I'm thinking about going with the star crimp even though the STI instructions say to use a roll crimp.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/images/crimps_after_shot.jpg

[longbow]

I've wondered the same thing. Factory roll crimps seem to open very nicely but many of mine are a little irregular.

Having said that the factories always use new hulls and probably sliced and prepped just so then roll crimped with crimpers to suit.

We generally "make do" with what we have.

[Ranch Dog]

Worked on the Longshot loads for the remainder of the day along with the roll vs. star crimp question. As for the roll, I'm doing it right, ¼" of hull above the slug meplat, rolled over to ⅛" above. Nice and smooth, pretty, but looks awful after the shot. I used the BPI Spin Doctor on them to try to round them out, it kind of worked, but they failed on the next shot, and the sabot went wild. Bottom line, I going to drop the roll and stick with the star. So easy to apply with the Lee Load-All II and the Spin Doctor irons them out very nice if you use the Load-All's sizing ring over the hull, held up on the mouth of the hull.

Next question was 37 or 38 grains of Longshot. With the 2¾" hull, the volume of the 37-grain charge places the meplat of the slug exactly ½" below the mouth, and it folds right over. Had to do a little measuring with the 3" and 38-grains. I ended up cutting .130" off the mouth end, and it folds up perfectly as well. The start and overall finish lengths are listed in the image.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/images/ST_hammerhead_05.jpg

I've been using a BPGS seal placed down in the priming chamber of the Load-All as a stop for the star crimp fold with the additional length of the 3". In that I'm trimming the 3" hull .130", I used a .125" hard card wad in the well, and it worked perfectly.

So on to 100 yards, my interest is in the 38-grain load. I think I'm going to string a heated wire between two posts to trim the cases. Might consider building a nice, adjustable length, heated wire hull trimmer. Now, on to 100 yards and I need to cast some Hammerheads.

What else? Oh, I shot three out of my Mossberg smooth barrel. All three hit the target backing at 50 yards, the they were tumbling.

[longbow]

Slugs r us says they are not for smoothbore so I'll have to guess that the shank extends far enough into the wad that they aren't nose heavy enough. Doesn't look like it but must be... or some good reason anyway.

They are looking very good out of your 512 though!

I like the Hammerhead idea.

On that sort of topic I have some 0.662" RB's pushed into cut off CSD wads with 2 nitro card wads under the balls so kinda Hammerhead like but very nose heavy. Perfect fit for my Slugster bore. I'll try those next range trip.

Longbow

[Ranch Dog]

Slugs r us says they are not for smoothbore so I'll have to guess that the shank extends far enough into the wad that they aren't nose heavy enough. Doesn't look like it but must be... or some good reason anyway
Yeah, they said to use a roll crimp and the star is working just as good if not better so I figured I would chunk the pumpkin.

[longbow]

I have recently wondered about roll crimps on more than once fired hulls when they get a little distorted. I'd think a fold crimp would open more consistently than a somewhat uneven/inconsistent roll crimp.

My thinking is that a slightly uneven roll crimp could cause the slug to cock while unrolling it where the fold crimp is pushed open and flips out of the way. Opening resistance my vary but less effect on the slug? Speculation on my part.

I'm sure plastic hulls are not as consistent as brass cartridges to begin with then you got a not tight fitting boolit in the hull and a sloppy chamber fit... we're talking a few thousandths of an inch here which is huge in gun tolerances. When the trigger is pulled the gas pressure is going to swell that hull to fit the chamber and if the slug can cock when opening a crimp it has room to do so by a few though at least then there is that perilous jump from 2 3/4" hull (in most cases) to end of 3" chamber then the sloppy forcing cone. Lots of places for things to happen!

Those Hammerhead sabots likely help keep those slugs aligned in transit through the forcing cone and also act as resilient bumpers not permanently distorting when bopping off the forcing cone.

Longbow

[bikerbeans]

RD,

New, cheap cheddite or fiocchi hulls i only fire once with slug loads. I then give them to my wife to make xmas lights. Your roll crimp group is tighter than your fold crimp group. I would continue testing both crimps with new hulls and see which gives the best accuracy.

BB

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK Mike that appears to be the kind of performance you were looking for with shotgun slugs from the beginning of this latest adventure into shotgun loading. I am all over this! This is the kind of performance that truly makes these into real live .73 cal rifles.

Did you get out to 100 yards yet? If they continue to fly strait you should be looking at <3 MOA at 100 easily. And since the slugs are @3/4" in dia that is easily the equivalent of a 1" group from a .308 or .30-06.

I am definitely going to get some of those Sabots to try out in the rifled barrel for the A5. I can also make Brass Slugs (for use in CA) on the lathe so I won't be hurting for non lead ammo.

I think it is very safe to say that anything that gets hit by one of these is going down.

I guess that's true about alot of shotgun slugs,,, but I just like saying it! And these just look more potent. :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

Randy

[Ranch Dog]

I have shot just shy of 40 of the STI SPW-12S and the groups take turns swapping size. All the groups are tight, so I'm certain that crimp style is not a influencing the group, just the shooter at the shot. I do believe that the star crimp on the Load-All is hands down quicker and more uniform.

The new Cheddites are about 14¢ each is not that big a deal, it is more about applying the crimp.

[W.R.Buchanan]

So these are indeed accurate enough to knock down a Nilgai at 100 yards ? Or maybe some of those problem pigs you have?

Randy

[Ranch Dog]

OK Mike that appears to be the kind of performance you were looking for with shotgun slugs from the beginning of this latest adventure into shotgun loading. I am all over this! This is the kind of performance that truly makes these into real live .73 cal rifles.

Did you get out to 100 yards yet? If they continue to fly strait you should be looking at <3 MOA at 100 easily. And since the slugs are @3/4" in dia that is easily the equivalent of a 1" group from a .308 or .30-06
Yep, Randy, it is getting exciting. I did shoot two shots at 100-yards after I shot the pump at 50-yards. I was a bit disappointed with that shooting, walked the target backboard out to the 100-yard berm and shot at a group on the board. The first slug hit and I wasn't sure where the second shot hit. Luckily, I use a target camera and save the image with each shot. With the frame jump from shot one to two, you could see the hole enlarge.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/targets/112318_04.jpg

Two-shots does not a group make, so I settled down and decided to answer some base questions about hull length and crimp along with the charge before I get serious out at 100-yards. I want to be set on a load before I start there. Not so much for wasting the components, the STI 12SPW are 38¢ each, but it is more the wear on the shooter as these deliver a punch. The life perserver as a shooting vest does make a difference, but there is quite a neck "snap" that can't be overcome.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/images/life_preserver.jpg

As an additional note this load, the Longshot loads, there is exactly three inches of drop from 50 to 100 yards.

This is Texas, so I wanted to sit today out, hot and humid this morning, the wind is coming up with another frontal passage. It will be cold and wet in the morning, my hound and I will be casting the Hammerheads!

[longbow]

"but there is quite a neck "snap" that can't be overcome."

You got that right! When I took the Slugster out last time I used my bench cross sticks so I could sit up straight to absorb recoil more easily (works very well!). First time I have bench rested a pump gun that way and first shot it self ejected and fed another round like a semi auto! I wondered ***!?! So, fired the second round and got the same result! Then I realized I was putting my left hand on the buttstock and the forearm was resting on the pad on my cross sticks. Recoil was enough that I was rebounding so unintentionally operating the gun while the slide stayed stationary.

Maybe (no probably) I am a bit slow sometimes but have not seen that before so moved my left hand to the forearm to make sure the slide didn't operate during recoil.

Also, the Slugster seems to be fairly short stroke pump and amazingly smooth so doesn't take much to cycle it. I like it.

Slug shooting does take its toll especially in lead and recoil (lost brain cells).

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

LB: I forgot to tell you when you shoot a M500 off a rest you need to squeeze the action bars behind the fore end. This will prevent the action from cycling.

This is because if you popped the trigger group out you would see that the only thing holding the bolt closed is the bolt release. The actual bolt latch holds the bolt in battery during firing but as soon as the hammer drops all the way, the fore end is free to move. As soon as the fore end moves back at all the bolt is unlocked from the barrel and the action will open.

BY squeezing the action bars it prevents the fore end from moving during recoil. Normally your hand on it prevents this.

When you learn to "Ride the Recoil" you will keep slight rearward pressure on the fore end so that you cycle the action as soon as the shot is gone. This is used when fast repeat shots are anticipated.

In order to get off 4 shots in 2.7 seconds with a pump gun you must ride the recoil.

But Squeezing the action bars during bench shooting will stop the unwanted action opening.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Mike: I read something to day stating sighting a rifled shotgun in dead on at 75 yards was the ticket. 1" high at 50 yards and 3" low at 100 yards.

This is the exact same trajectory as a .22 LR High Speed (1250 to 1300 fps) which is where the low recoil slugs are at. This would flatten out slightly at 1500 fps but still be in the ballpark.

Randy

[Ranch Dog]

I'm using a 3" point blank range with the STI like I did with the Lightfield.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/TMT/ballistics/PBR_STI_12SPW.jpg

Back to the target board above, I shot at the three-shot group to the left of the 100-yard POI. There was no wind when I shot so I need to increase the elevation an inch and bring the windage to the left about an inch and a half, about half of the total spin drift. The BC of the projectile is just my estimate, but it looks like it is working out from the 3" high at 50-yards that I shot. If I have a dependable 100-yard MOA, I will put a chronograph down at 100-yards and shoot across two chronographs to obtain the actual BC.

[msinc]

I've wondered the same thing. Factory roll crimps seem to open very nicely but many of mine are a little irregular.

Having said that the factories always use new hulls and probably sliced and prepped just so then roll crimped with crimpers to suit.

We generally "make do" with what we have.

I find that if you first run one of those hull conditioners spun in a cordless drill to help iron out and uniform the hull mouth that helps a lot. The biggest thing I did that made a difference was to apply a little Imperial Sizing Wax to the hull mouth just before rolling the crimp. I also find that most drill presses wont go down slow enough. I use my vertical mill that is variable speed from 0 to whatever the top speed is and I have it barely turning. When they recommend "slow" they definitely mean really slow. I don't know of any hand drills that will go slow enough. I get just as good of roll crimps out of the Slugs-R-Us crimper as I do with the BPI steel one. I am surprised to hear folks are having so much trouble with the BPI tool. It also helps to warm the hull mouth up a little.

[Ranch Dog]

Thanks, msinc. The information you provided secures my belief that a star crimp is the way to go. The minimum speed my drill is capable of is 600 RPM and the drill press 640, and I'm unwilling to buy anything else to achieve the crimp.

[jmort]

Lot of fantastic collective knowledge here. I have been long convinced that the fold crimp is the way to go. Post #5. Nothing, within reason compares with the .730" bore. It seems perfect. We just have to help it be perfect.

[longbow]

Hmmmmm... I've been using my little lathe to roll crimp and I wonder now if I am running it too fast. I'll try in back gear. If I take it easy it does okay but all my hulls were previously fold crimped to that doesn't help. I did make a hull mouth reconditioner but it really doesn't seem to do a lot after the fold crimp is there. A once they've been roll crimped and shot a time or two they look better but of course plastic hulls have limited life!

Last time I bought new Fiocchi hulls but those have been reloaded a few times now. When I put in my next order I'll decide what to get and likely order new again. The Fiocchi's seemed like good plastic and they roll crimped fairly well but limited load data for them. I'm thinking Federal Gold Medal as there are thousands of loads listed... though not as many slug loads.

Nonetheless, Now that maybe I have been enlightened I will roll crimp at lower speed next time to see how it goes. You'd think a simple thing like that... well, one shouldn't assume. I'm pretty simple myself!

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

LB: did you get the Memo on pinching the action bars?

Randy

[longbow]

I did!

After finding I had an unintentional autoloader off the cross sticks I smartened up and just rested my left hand under the forearm. it didn't take much at all to keep things from sliding.

I do believe that Slugster is smoother and shorter stroke than my BPS and my son's 870. I'll get them all out together sometime to compare. The Browning seems to have a much longer stroke and I find I often short stroke it so eject an empty hull but don't pick up a new one! I have to pull back fairly hard to ensure I complete the stroke. With the Mossberg it seems to happen very easily.

I am looking forward to receiving the M Carbo spring set and resulting lighter trigger pull. That should be here within the week I am hoping. Crossing that 49th parallel can take some time though!

I found a nice ghost ring sight from Williams that I think i'll get too.

But this conversation has nothing to do with roll crimping! I better shut up!

Got it and thanks!

Longbow

[Ranch Dog]

I noticed that I hadn't used the chronograph's "corrected to muzzle" velocity on the table post above. I updated it.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/TMT/ballistics/PBR_STI_12SPW.jpg

Also, I generated a terminal energy chart.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/TMT/terminal/TERM_STI_12SPW.jpg

[Blood Trail]

Ranch Dog,

BPI roll crimper is excellent. I had the nylon version from SlugsRus and it was garbage. I have it away.

I’ve tried every powder from their old data list, even a few that wasn’t listed, and had excellent results from two different slug guns.

Their Longshot data is what I submitted to them. They never had it posted in the old data.

I settled on 800X, due to the average velocity out of my USH was 1650 fps. Accuracy was amazing at that velocity. Here’s some of my groups:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181127/57c8625d8bbe569d43283a6a2971f20f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181127/5e817feda2f5bb4210fcee9b8825f432.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181127/056bc1ea248e9c321cbdd532fec71edf.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181127/bd76a17119b969ec58f98e657578d110.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181127/1b47e7ad62b8122b3870db9a57cdccfd.jpg

100 yards 7 shot group:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181127/0aa55df46ec3d2ba1acafc7cf3329268.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Blood Trail]

Randy Fritz fro Tarhunt described to me the reasoning behind the vertical shot string groups off a clean barrel.

He said that petroleum based solvents leave a residue that affects pressure until it is burnt of. Makes sense to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[longbow]

Pretty impressive groups!

And pretty impressive velocities!

I'm kinda dazzled!

Longbow

[Blood Trail]

Pretty impressive groups!

And pretty impressive velocities!

I'm kinda dazzled!

Longbow

I posted these a while ago one here. I really like this slug.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ranch Dog]

BPI roll crimper is excellent. I had the nylon version from SlugsRus and it was garbage. I have it away.
Funny how experience varies. Do you have any pictures of hulls you have shot with either roller?


I’ve tried every powder from their old data list, even a few that wasn’t listed, and had excellent results from two different slug guns.

Their Longshot data is what I submitted to them. They never had it posted in the old data.
I knew that someone here had suggested the Longshot loads, and I tried to find that information again, but we do get off topic in almost all topics rather quick, and it is tough to find something again. Thank you for the Longshot data!


I settled on 800X, due to the average velocity out of my USH was 1650 fps. Accuracy was amazing at that velocity.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/data/800X_01.jpg

I noticed that your 38-grain load of 800X is quite a bit higher than the 35-grains listed on the STI load data. Did you find a data for a 1 or 1⅛ ounce that encouraged you to shoot that charge?


Randy Fritz fro Tarhunt described to me the reasoning behind the vertical shot string groups off a clean barrel.

He said that petroleum based solvents leave a residue that affects pressure until it is burnt of. Makes sense to me.
In an email, that is exactly what he told me, and I've experienced it a couple of times now. It seems to me that if you do clean a barrel, that you need three fouling shots before you head to the field.

I have experience plastic fouling with both wads supporting both Lee and Lyman slugs and leading from the Accurate bullet. I use Shooter Choice products, they reduce both plastic and lead to a thick liquid, and use VFG Super Intensive Felt Pad to remove it. I use these with all the cartridges I shoot.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/maintenance/shooters_choice.jpg
https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/maintenance/VFG_12_superintensive.jpg


Pretty impressive groups!

And pretty impressive velocities!

I'm kinda dazzled!
I'm going out to 75 and 100-yards today. I think this design is probably the one to beat when it comes to a home cast slug.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Mike: Whats the source for that bore cleaner? I took me nearly an hour to get all the plastic out of my M500 barrel after 500 rounds at Front Sight. If that stuff works it would be worth a try as nothing I have had any affect whatsoever on the plastic. I used a bronze brush in a drill motor to remove it and it took many passes to get it really clean.

Where did you get it?

Randy

[jmort]

I have had excellent results with all the Wipe Out products.

NO-SWEAT-3230814No Sweat™
Sharp Shoot R Precision Inc. announces a great new product for shotgunners “WIPE-OUT ‘NO-SWEAT SHOTGUN BORE CLEANER ™” . This is the first product of it’s kind to address the issues involved in easily cleaning a shotgun barrel. We call this product ‘“WIPE-OUT ‘NO-SWEAT SHOTGUN BORE CLEANER ™” because of all the hassle that has been associated with the complicated and laborious task of cleaning these firearms. Shotgun shooters now have a specific product made just for the problems associated with cleaning a shotgun barrel. The new product is the first to answer to this problem!

https://sharpshootr.com/no-sweat-shotgun-cleaner/

231146

[Ranch Dog]

Mike: Whats the source for that bore cleaner?

Where did you get it?
I bought it on eBay from fuddlebucks (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shooters-Choice-Shotgun-and-Choke-Tube-Cleaner-Degreaser-12-oz-Aerosol-SG012/163392324270?epid=1266201224&hash=item260af102ae:g:b8UAAOSw-UBbLwIG:sc:USPSPriority!77954!US!-1:rk:3:pf:0), that was the best price with shipping.

[Ranch Dog]

Well, I think I got it done today. I kept putting off the shooting because the wind was so high, up to 22 mph, and finally decided just to do it. I wanted to settle the charge and hull length at 75-yards, which will be 37.5-grains in a 2¾" hull. I'm sticking with the six-star crimp delivered from the Lee Load-All II. Okay, the picture below should cover everything, remember the wind was terrible.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/targets/112818_100Y_01.jpg

This wasn't a day to deliver the best group possible, it was a good run against the winds that I hunt in, and I am pleased with the performance. I did make a slight correction to windage and elevation and will be shooting again the next several days. After I fired the last load and while I was at the bench, a spike buck ran out at 125-yards, trailing a doe. Had I had another round, I would have shot him, and I don't doubt that I would have nailed him good.

Here is the target I will be engaging in a few days, I mean nights.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/targets/hog_target.jpg

[Ranch Dog]

Since I start the slug project this fall, 166 shots using the Lee, Lyman, and now the Sabot Tech offerings.

[Blood Trail]

Funny how experience varies. Do you have any pictures of hulls you have shot with either roller?


I knew that someone here had suggested the Longshot loads, and I tried to find that information again, but we do get off topic in almost all topics rather quick, and it is tough to find something again. Thank you for the Longshot data!



https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/data/800X_01.jpg

I noticed that your 38-grain load of 800X is quite a bit higher than the 35-grains listed on the STI load data. Did you find a data for a 1 or 1⅛ ounce that encouraged you to shoot that charge?


In an email, that is exactly what he told me, and I've experienced it a couple of times now. It seems to me that if you do clean a barrel, that you need three fouling shots before you head to the field.

I have experience plastic fouling with both wads supporting both Lee and Lyman slugs and leading from the Accurate bullet. I use Shooter Choice products, they reduce both plastic and lead to a thick liquid, and use VFG Super Intensive Felt Pad to remove it. I use these with all the cartridges I shoot.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/maintenance/shooters_choice.jpg
https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/maintenance/VFG_12_superintensive.jpg


I'm going out to 75 and 100-yards today. I think this design is probably the one to beat when it comes to a home cast slug.

Here’s some pics of https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181129/95ac20f3b2a5096b2dd9bdef88ac002a.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181129/3e7d7818ecd47b3826d3d87538c3a90b.jpg

As far as the 38 grains of 800X, their original data (which I saved somewhere) had 36 grains listed for their 3” hull. I’d figure I slowly bump it up a little for my USH. I stopped at 38 grs. Didn’t wanna push it any further even though I’m using my USH.


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[Blood Trail]

More BPI roll crimp pics:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181129/1c75016bd1a320796e2ad359e9230e8e.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181129/549e97f566075d8d26d0f79ada886064.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181129/80546ea263afb6bfbf590da6d727346d.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ranch Dog]

Thanks, my BPI tool won't deliver that. What do they look like after they are shot?

[bikerbeans]

BT,

What RPM do you spin your crimper? Also, how many seconds to complete the crimp? Do you finish at xx pounds of force or use a stop to control the crimp height?

Very nice crimps!

BB

[longbow]

Yes indeed! Very nice crimps!

[Blood Trail]

BB,

I use a Harbor Freight 12 speed drill press set at 300 RPMs

https://m.harborfreight.com/10-in-12-speed-bench-drill-press-63471.html

I go by feel. Once I feel the roll crimp bottom out on the slug, I pull up.

Depending on the hull is how fast or slow I go. Fiocchi 20 ga hulls gave me a fit. I have to move slow on those.

12 ga, I move it a little faster, steadier pace.


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[Ranch Dog]

BB,

I use a Harbor Freight 12 speed drill press set at 300 RPMs

https://m.harborfreight.com/10-in-12-speed-bench-drill-press-63471.html

I go by feel. Once I feel the roll crimp bottom out on the slug, I pull up.

Depending on the hull is how fast or slow I go. Fiocchi 20 ga hulls gave me a fit. I have to move slow on those.

12 ga, I move it a little faster, steadier pace.
Dang it, I got a 20% coupon from them today and I've got to take my dad to the eye doc in Victoria today. They are right down the street.

Two questions: How much length are you leaving above the upper surface of the load? Do you have any images of hulls shot with your roll crimp?

[Blood Trail]

Dang it, I got a 20% coupon from them today and I've got to take my dad to the eye doc in Victoria today. They are right down the street.

Two questions: How much length are you leaving above the upper surface of the load? Do you have any images of hulls shot with your roll crimp?

RD, I’ll take some pics this evening. Headed to the range today to sight in my son’s 20 ga. I’m using the 20 ga version of these for that gun.

As far as material for the crimp, I like deep crimps. Half inch or maybe a little more is perfect. I wouldn’t go below 1/4” for crimp.


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[W.R.Buchanan]

BT: that is some excellent looking ammunition. When Ammo looks right, it generally shoots well.

I am all about making good quality Ammo, that's why I built my little Hand Press.

I also love overkill, and all of these slug loads we are working on are certainly that and more.

I think the key to getting the BPI tool to work right is turning it slow enough. The common problem with most drill presses is that they turn too fast .

For example the speed you turn a 1/2' drill bit for steel is 300 rpms and a 1/4" bit needs to run at 5-600. Most drill presses won't go down to 300 rpms so you are really limited to the size of bit you can run effectively and not burn up.

I have an old Craftsman Drill Press in my shop that has the reduction idler on it and it runs at 120 rpms and I leave it that way so I can run countersinks in it.

I have only done 2-3 Roll crimps with my BPI tools. 12 ga and .410. I had no idea what I was doing and they all came out perfect.

Now that I have said that, I will probably never get another good one!

If you look on Ebay there are always antique Crank Style Roll Crimpers for sale. I doubt you could even get 60 rpms out of those cranking by hand, but they were the standard method of doing it for along time.

It would seem that slower works better.

My .02 and I will conduct some tests on the mill later today. It is a vari-speed and I can go from 60-3000 rpms.

Randy

[dsh1106]

Based on the tests I did earlier this year with a couple of different roll crimpers, anything over 300 will cause to much heat on the hull. I tried the Lyman roll crimpers and two of the Russian made roll crimpers. The heat will set the crimp and sometime even looks nice but trying to use that hull again is almost impossible. I also have a Ideal hand crank roll crimper that works as well as, or maybe better than the drill press version.

Personally any speed over 100 - 120 rpms is overkill on the roll crimpers I have.

Scott

[gpidaho]

I have one of those Russian hand roll crimping tools. I is basically the same idea as the antique tools. Like the Russian hand press I bought, they work a LOT better than they look like they might. When the press mounted tools bottom out on a slug, I finish up with the hand tool. Gp

[Blood Trail]

I have a antique roll crimper. Works great. The only drawback is its for 2.75” and smaller hulls.

I’ve used my 18 bolt hand drill and achieve great crimps. The key is to cool the crimper down between runs.

I think the low RPMs is so it don’t heat up too much.


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[Ranch Dog]

Good information guys. Went over to HF today and they were out of the 10" tabletop DP BT mentioned. They will be in Tuesday, what's another $100 into this mess?

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings Scott, those Lyman roll crimper in your picture were the very best and still are.
I got one from 1970 and love it but the Gaep European one in 20 ga nothing to brag about.
Ajay
Super Blazing Sabots