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kidmma
11-16-2018, 02:32 PM
I have a copy of "The Complete Guide to Handloading" by Phil Sharpe. Last edited in 1949.

230450 230451

230449 230452

Lots of information but a lot more history. Stories about Harry Pope and others.

Many old and forgotten cartridges and equipment too!!

It is offered on Cornell Publications as well.





Scott

johniv
11-16-2018, 03:55 PM
I have that book. You are right, great read.
John

Reverend Al
11-16-2018, 10:48 PM
I have a 1937 hard copy edition of Sharpe's book plus I have a digital copy downloaded. Tons of great period information on obsolete calibres and old components, plus a section on the "how to's" of paper patching ...

John Boy
11-20-2018, 10:58 AM
Shooting many of the cartridges developed in the 1800’s Sharpe’s Guide is the first reference I go to.

3006guns
11-22-2018, 09:18 PM
I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I'll go ahead anyway........

Back in the early eighties, I had the finest mentor on firearms any man could wish for. He had a fascinating personal history, ranging from his parents.....father in the Czarist army, mother a pianist and teacher....to his escapades with the O.S.S. in WWII and later the CIA in the early fifties. I was in my early forties when I met him and thought I knew a lot about firearms and shooting. As I found out, I didn't know squat. I learned to keep my big mouth shut and listen, thus picking up more technical and historical information than I knew existed. Why was I so fascinated? Because this man was THERE. For example in his closet was a Nazi pith helmet, complete with swastika....a little souvenir of his march "up the boot" during the Italian campaign. Other items included a sheik's head piece, German stick grenade and on and on. He passed away just as the Soviet Union collapsed and, on his death bed, smiled. He hated Communists due to the murder of his entire family in 1917, including his aged grandmother. His name was Igor, and I have always been grateful to know him and refer to him as my "mentor".

I have the same book. I mentioned it to my mentor many years ago and his reaction was NOT what I expected. He told me that he met Phil Sharpe on one occasion and that Sharpe's entire personality was wrapped around "me, me, me". He said "As I walked into Sharpe's office he leaned back in his office chair, placed his finger tips together and with chin elevated and a rather haughty attitude asked '..and just how may I help YOU?' If I knew then what I know now, I would have told that arrogant **** off right then and there."

Okay, so we have some kind of personality dispute from long ago. What's the big deal? Well, when you have someone that knows "everything" they are bound to give out incorrect information, and dare you to challenge their massive wisdom. After all, they know it ALL.

Look through the book at sections written by "guest" authors, i.e. authors that Sharpe invited to contribute to the book. In almost EVERY case, you will find a bracketed section in the middle by Sharpe saying something like "This author agrees completely. I have tested many rounds and come to the same conclusion!" Really Phil? So, why did you bother to ask for a contribution from someone else, only to insert your own comments? Rather arrogant don't you think old boy?

Take a look at the section on "foreign rifles". The evaluation of the Japanese Arisakas was written by another author and, again, Phil sticks his two bits worth in though with a statement (paraphrased) like this "This author agrees. These foreign rifles are mostly junk and better hung on the wall!" The words "mostly junk" leave me cold since every bolt action military rifle I've examined are of good quality, designed to best engineering of the day and designed to defend against enemies....and as we all know, the type 38 and 99 Japanese rifles are about the toughest guns ever built.

I'll continue to treasure my copy of Sharpe's book, along with all the others I have. But he sure wouldn't be my "go to" expert on anything.

Now, Sharpe's book is full of interesting information on pre and post war reloading equipment, load data (all obsolete) and was obviously put together by someone who's done a lot with firearms. But his rather snotty writing style I can do without.

Char-Gar
11-22-2018, 11:17 PM
First book about reloading I bought in 1959. Still have it and it is well read.

Bent Ramrod
11-23-2018, 12:34 PM
I don’t mind a reasonable level of artistic temperament, as long as the subject shows actual artistry to back it up. Woe (of course) to those who put on the attitude without the backup. May they be ridiculed unto the tenth generation.

I think Sharpe mentioned somewhere that he spent a ton of money getting the book data together, and lost a wife or two to his shooting and reloading interests. He did “pay his dues,” and left a solid body of work, “people skills” notwithstanding.

Elmer Keith, George Leonard Herter, Ken Howell and COL Jeff Cooper all come off as pretty self-centered in their writing, too, and even Jack O’Connor gets that way sometimes. For me, it’s just part of the entertainment. It’s a real person talking to me, rather than a lost voice trying to make himself heard through a swarm of revision-happy editors and proofreaders.

That stuff about certain milsurps being “mostly junk” was a hangover from the War, when all Japanese materiel was dismissed as cheap and crummy for propaganda purposes. The American Rifleman in the early ‘30’s found nothing wrong with Japanese rifles, and CAPT George, who was on Guadalcanal, among other places, thought a lot of Japanese military stuff was better thought-out than our own. These facts were deliberately overlooked for the War effort.

Sharpe was a man of his era. Judging him by the sensitive standards of our own time says more about us than him.

Hossfly
11-23-2018, 12:55 PM
I’ve been reading this book and others, for years, I guess I’m not that critical in my reading. I just like old books and reading about how all this got started in the first place. Especially the bullet lubes he and others started with, something we wouldn’t want to repeat, learn as much as we can from these ancient text. Take a little here and a little from there and get what you can out of it. I just wonder if they were brought back in to the future as in today, what they would think or say about all this powder coating and alloying we do on a regular basis now.

ascast
11-23-2018, 01:36 PM
I bought a copy at gun show prices about 1995. $90-100 I think. I find it a great read on old equipment. also a glimps into the shooting fraternaty, particularly in the Mohawk Valley of New York. This is my stomping ground and he spent time here and drops names of guys I knew of from other sources. It's a good read and hats off for him getting it together.
That said; one of my shooting mentors meet Sharpe once. My friend was a mail clerk in the Army before shipping out to occupied Japan. One day Sharpe comes in looking for a shipment of ammo from Japan. He was informed no such package was there at the moment, next due in later that day. Phil proceeded to strut around, asking/demanding to check again, see a superior on and on for an hour or so. His package was not there. Yet the performance went on. My friend said he was like a "a swarm of bees, a strutting tom turkey and a bunch of mosquitoes crammed into a Bantee cock".
It always struck me odd that he had data for 11mm Gras and not 11mm Mauser, or a dozen other common calibers of that era.

3006guns
11-23-2018, 02:29 PM
Thank you ascast, for helping with my point......and that point is, accurate information has no room for arrogance or attitudes. That simply misleads others down the wrong path.

Bent Ramrod...I'm very aware of the attitude towards Japanese equipment, as I collect the type 38 and 99 rifles. Got a closet (safe) full of them. My gripe with Sharpe is that he condemns them as junk AFTER the war. Did he come to this conclusion with dedicated testing? He did not. Did he consult anyone who had actually done any testing? He did not. Any metallurgical testing done? Nope. Did he examine the design and discover improvements over the Mauser? Nada.

And yet this man trumpets himself as an expert.........and we shall fall at his feet in supplication and worship? How much other data of his should be trusted? Please note that I DO give him absolute credit for the development of the 7 x 61 Sharpe cartridge (I believe that's correct). It's a good round and deserved more credit than it got.

Okay, I know I'm getting carried away. The book is actually very interesting and Sharpes's comments........knowing what I know now.........just add a bit of hilarity for me. I guess what I'm trying to say is take the information in the book with a grain of salt. At lot of it is good, but there's some that isn't.

alamogunr
11-23-2018, 04:51 PM
I've got two copies of Sharpe's book, different editions. It is very interesting. The picture of Sharpe talking to Harry Pope was most interesting.

I've also got Mattern's book, Naramore's book and Nonte's book on handloading, as well as Ken Howell's book on cartridges. I found a copy of Donnelly's book on the same subject but have read that it contains errors. I imagine the errors are such that I would never find them. I probably wouldn't have bought it except it was the only hardback copy I've ever seen. Paid too much just to satisfy my curiosity.

All these books are mainly interesting from an historic standpoint. I rely on more modern reloading manuals for reliable information.

ascast
11-23-2018, 05:04 PM
3006guns - I meant to mention you in my post - got sidetracked. and while I'm kicking a dead dog, what does the 7x61 Sharpe do that a dozen or more others commonly available won't do? Every body else was going to a smaller case with same performance.
I recall (frequently) some mention of a bullet being "patched" by having copper wire wrapped around the bullet. to make a 22cal a 45 cal. or some such. He seemed very impressed by this idea and commented he expected it to be come common place. Maybe he was being sarcastic.

I still think it's a good read, with salt handy.

3006guns
11-23-2018, 06:20 PM
ascast........the 7 x 61 was a remarkably good cartridge.........FOR ITS TIME. It was a good development and I'll give credit (to Sharpe) where credit is due. I guess I don't see the Sharpe as a true "wildcat". It was thought out fairly well.

The idea of copper (or brass) wire wrapped around the bullet goes clear back to the old National wire wrapped bullet. It was never designed to increase the diameter though, just to provide a "jacket" that didn't need fancy forming dies. If I recall, someone actually made a mold that accepted little coiled wire "springs" that were inserted before pouring. Pretty labor intensive though, so it didn't catch on.

smithnframe
07-14-2019, 07:44 AM
He was a raging alcoholic. I have 2 1st editions of his Complete Guide to Handloading in my extensive collection. I also have a 1st edition of The Rifle in America by Phil Sharpe.

pwc
07-25-2019, 11:46 PM
Back in the early eighties, I had the finest mentor on firearms any man could wish for. He had a fascinating personal history, ranging from his parents.....father in the Czarist army, mother a pianist and teacher....to his escapades with the O.S.S. in WWII and later the CIA in the early fifties. I was in my early forties when I met him and thought I knew a lot about firearms and shooting. As I found out, I didn't know squat. I learned to keep my big mouth shut and listen, thus picking up more technical and historical information than I knew existed. Why was I so fascinated? Because this man was THERE. For example in his closet was a Nazi pith helmet, complete with swastika....a little souvenir of his march "up the boot" during the Italian campaign. Other items included a sheik's head piece, German stick grenade and on and on. He passed away just as the Soviet Union collapsed and, on his death bed, smiled. He hated Communists due to the murder of his entire family in 1917, including his aged grandmother. His name was Igor, and I have always been grateful to know him and refer to him as my "mentor".

I have the same book. I mentioned it to my mentor many years ago and his reaction was NOT what I expected. He told me that he met Phil Sharpe on one occasion and that Sharpe's entire personality was wrapped around "me, me, me". He said "As I walked into Sharpe's office he leaned back in his office chair, placed his finger tips together and with chin elevated and a rather haughty attitude asked '..and just how may I help YOU?' If I knew then what I know now, I would have told that arrogant **** off right then and there."

Sounds kinda' like "Second Hand Lion"....I like it.

Maricopa County College Libraries had a circulatin copy in the mid 80s but when I went back to check it out for the umteenth time, the record showed it available, but it wasn't on the shelf. Someone had stolen it, maybe they'll read about it here.

1hole
04-29-2020, 04:40 PM
It's been maybe twenty years since I last read my copy of Sharpes "Complete ...." (ebay find, about $18, IIRC). It's far from complete of course but I like history and there is a lot of that in there. And, yeh, ol' Phil comes across as something of a preening peacock at times but I still loved reading it. I know exactly where it is, think I'll go dig it out.

The late Merle "Mike" Walker of Remington was a casual friend of mine at one time. He was personally acquainted with Sharpe, O'Conner, Amber, Gates, Askins, Page, Keith and quite a few other writers I can't remember. I do remember that he liked and respected Page and Keith a lot altho he frequently disagreed with both. The others .... well .... they're all dead now.

GONRA
05-02-2020, 08:27 PM
GONRA enjoyed Sharps book waaaay back. Got me going on Hollywood reloading stuff....
Also Roy Dunlap's "Ordnance Went Up Front" which is REALLY GREAT... Just seemed a LOT better than Gun Mag stuff at the tyme....

sharps4590
05-03-2020, 07:13 AM
Original post is a bit aged but, 1hole, GONRA, thanks for resurrecting it. I will be ordering Sharpe's book later today. I have the copy "The Rifle in America" by Sharpe the NRA library reproduced several years ago. Quite the tome.

beemer
05-03-2020, 11:27 AM
I have Sharpe's book and enjoyed it. I have also met some arrogant rear ends. Some of them were very good in their field but thought everyone should pucker up on demand. They get wrapped up in all the attention. I learned what I could and paid no attention to the rest.

My Dad once said (I will clean it up a bit) that some people are like cow pies, stir it and it will stink, leave it be and it will dry up and blow away.

Walla2
05-03-2020, 12:47 PM
Reading the above it seems Sharpe was a human being like the rest of us. He had pluses and minuses. I enjoy the book immensely. I have the 1941 issue. To me it is a historical book. It is how things used to be.

Pressman
05-03-2020, 01:12 PM
I have a signed first edition, a 1942 edition, 1949 edition and 1953 edition. Each has the same primary text differing in the new stuff addendum. For good research having all four is necessary as they have information the others don't have.
Ken

Martin Luber
05-03-2020, 05:19 PM
I have read many of the old tomes, and yes it seems that a lot of folks were professing authority and stature; go big or go home l guess. Otherwise, Who would even listen let alone publish?

smithnframe
05-03-2020, 05:27 PM
I have 2 1st editions of this classic. He was a raging alcoholic and Elmer Keith used to call him "little" Phil!

3006guns
05-12-2020, 11:40 PM
Sounds kinda' like "Second Hand Lion"....I like it.

I actually laughed out loud at that...........because you're right! It's also one of my favorite movies. Never thought about the connection to old Igor though. Thanks for the thought!

abunaitoo
05-19-2020, 03:00 AM
I think I have two of them.
Not sure how it happened, or if I still have both.
Way to much stuff to keep track of.
I wish I were better organ-nized.

Jim22
01-18-2021, 06:56 PM
I have two reprints of Sharpe's books: 'Complete Guide To Reloading', and 'The Rifle In America'. Both were reprinted in the '80's by Wolfe Publishing. They offered a 'Book of the month' or some thing. I signed up and have all they reprinted. Sharpe's books are the largest of the group and the ones I never read. Others by writers like Selous, Whelan, and Elmer Keith have turned out to be very interesting. Selous wrote about hunting in the copper mine region of Alaska. Seems to me he favored the .280 Ross rifle.

clearwater
01-18-2021, 08:46 PM
"Elmer Keith, George Leonard Herter, Ken Howell and COL Jeff Cooper all come off as pretty self-centered in their writing, too, and even Jack O’Connor gets that way sometimes."

Just got thru reading some of O'connor's stuff. He said if he were in charge he would outlaw the use of the 30-30 for elk as it usually just wounded rather than killed the animals. Later in the book he teaches how to shoot running game at 300 yards.

rayh
01-19-2021, 12:21 AM
I met Mr. Sharpe, he lived outside of Emmitsburg, Md. I was 12 or 13. I tried to sight in a 98 Mauser in military trim. Shot all my ammo and it was Sun, stores were closed back then. Deer season started the next day. I had read an article about him in the local paper. My mother drove me up to his place. I knocked on the door, Mr. Sharpe answered. I ask if I could buy some 8mm ammo, he looked at me and said "I'm not a damn store" and slammed the door shut. I always remember him whenever I pick up his book.

lotech
01-27-2021, 10:18 AM
3006guns - I meant to mention you in my post - got sidetracked. and while I'm kicking a dead dog, what does the 7x61 Sharpe do that a dozen or more others commonly available won't do? Every body else was going to a smaller case with same performance.
I recall (frequently) some mention of a bullet being "patched" by having copper wire wrapped around the bullet. to make a 22cal a 45 cal. or some such. He seemed very impressed by this idea and commented he expected it to be come common place. Maybe he was being sarcastic.

I still think it's a good read, with salt handy.

The 7x61 Sharpe & Hart is ballistically so close to the 7mm Remington Magnum that any differences are more of a textbook nature than real. The 7x61 has slightly less case capacity than the 7mm Rem. Magnum and is a bit more efficient - pretty much another academic point. However, the 7x61 was introduced eight or ten years before the Remington cartridge, so it had a good bit to offer at the time for a commercial round. A number of custom gunsmiths were offering the S&H chambering as well, so it did enjoy at least modest success for a short time.

The 7mm Weatherby Magnum had been around since the '40s and it did provide a little better performance than Sharpe's cartridge. Today, there may be a "dozen or more" commonly available cartridges that will do what the 7x61 does, but when it was introduced that wasn't close to being true.

John Boy
01-31-2021, 09:04 PM
Have 2 editions and they have been found invaluable for reloading data for the old single shots in the safe

Shawlerbrook
02-01-2021, 10:17 AM
Many leaders in different fields are self centered egomaniacs. Itís like the chicken and egg....are they egotistical because they are sages or did the ego help make them leaders. PO Ackley was known as an extreme self promoter. Thomas Edison was the same way. I think we should admire these peopleís work, not the people themselves. As an aside, one should always take historical reloading data with caution.

Don Purcell
02-01-2021, 12:19 PM
I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I'll go ahead anyway........

Back in the early eighties, I had the finest mentor on firearms any man could wish for. He had a fascinating personal history, ranging from his parents.....father in the Czarist army, mother a pianist and teacher....to his escapades with the O.S.S. in WWII and later the CIA in the early fifties. I was in my early forties when I met him and thought I knew a lot about firearms and shooting. As I found out, I didn't know squat. I learned to keep my big mouth shut and listen, thus picking up more technical and historical information than I knew existed. Why was I so fascinated? Because this man was THERE. For example in his closet was a Nazi pith helmet, complete with swastika....a little souvenir of his march "up the boot" during the Italian campaign. Other items included a sheik's head piece, German stick grenade and on and on. He passed away just as the Soviet Union collapsed and, on his death bed, smiled. He hated Communists due to the murder of his entire family in 1917, including his aged grandmother. His name was Igor, and I have always been grateful to know him and refer to him as my "mentor".

I have the same book. I mentioned it to my mentor many years ago and his reaction was NOT what I expected. He told me that he met Phil Sharpe on one occasion and that Sharpe's entire personality was wrapped around "me, me, me". He said "As I walked into Sharpe's office he leaned back in his office chair, placed his finger tips together and with chin elevated and a rather haughty attitude asked '..and just how may I help YOU?' If I knew then what I know now, I would have told that arrogant **** off right then and there."

Okay, so we have some kind of personality dispute from long ago. What's the big deal? Well, when you have someone that knows "everything" they are bound to give out incorrect information, and dare you to challenge their massive wisdom. After all, they know it ALL.

Look through the book at sections written by "guest" authors, i.e. authors that Sharpe invited to contribute to the book. In almost EVERY case, you will find a bracketed section in the middle by Sharpe saying something like "This author agrees completely. I have tested many rounds and come to the same conclusion!" Really Phil? So, why did you bother to ask for a contribution from someone else, only to insert your own comments? Rather arrogant don't you think old boy?

Take a look at the section on "foreign rifles". The evaluation of the Japanese Arisakas was written by another author and, again, Phil sticks his two bits worth in though with a statement (paraphrased) like this "This author agrees. These foreign rifles are mostly junk and better hung on the wall!" The words "mostly junk" leave me cold since every bolt action military rifle I've examined are of good quality, designed to best engineering of the day and designed to defend against enemies....and as we all know, the type 38 and 99 Japanese rifles are about the toughest guns ever built.

I'll continue to treasure my copy of Sharpe's book, along with all the others I have. But he sure wouldn't be my "go to" expert on anything.

Now, Sharpe's book is full of interesting information on pre and post war reloading equipment, load data (all obsolete) and was obviously put together by someone who's done a lot with firearms. But his rather snotty writing style I can do without.

When you were describing your mentor, Igor, I was sure you were going to say Mitch Werbell. Werbell's life nearly matched Igor's. His father was a Cossack in the Czar's army, he was in World War Two and in the OSS. Was an advisor to militaries and was in Vietnam before hardly any Americans had ever even heard of it. Needless to say he also hated communists and would travel anywhere in the world to fight against them.

beagle
03-09-2021, 11:50 PM
No doubt Sharpe contributed a lot to the shooting and reloading game but I've heard the same reports on him that you have.

Still, an interesting read./beagle


I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I'll go ahead anyway........

Back in the early eighties, I had the finest mentor on firearms any man could wish for. He had a fascinating personal history, ranging from his parents.....father in the Czarist army, mother a pianist and teacher....to his escapades with the O.S.S. in WWII and later the CIA in the early fifties. I was in my early forties when I met him and thought I knew a lot about firearms and shooting. As I found out, I didn't know squat. I learned to keep my big mouth shut and listen, thus picking up more technical and historical information than I knew existed. Why was I so fascinated? Because this man was THERE. For example in his closet was a Nazi pith helmet, complete with swastika....a little souvenir of his march "up the boot" during the Italian campaign. Other items included a sheik's head piece, German stick grenade and on and on. He passed away just as the Soviet Union collapsed and, on his death bed, smiled. He hated Communists due to the murder of his entire family in 1917, including his aged grandmother. His name was Igor, and I have always been grateful to know him and refer to him as my "mentor".

I have the same book. I mentioned it to my mentor many years ago and his reaction was NOT what I expected. He told me that he met Phil Sharpe on one occasion and that Sharpe's entire personality was wrapped around "me, me, me". He said "As I walked into Sharpe's office he leaned back in his office chair, placed his finger tips together and with chin elevated and a rather haughty attitude asked '..and just how may I help YOU?' If I knew then what I know now, I would have told that arrogant **** off right then and there."

Okay, so we have some kind of personality dispute from long ago. What's the big deal? Well, when you have someone that knows "everything" they are bound to give out incorrect information, and dare you to challenge their massive wisdom. After all, they know it ALL.

Look through the book at sections written by "guest" authors, i.e. authors that Sharpe invited to contribute to the book. In almost EVERY case, you will find a bracketed section in the middle by Sharpe saying something like "This author agrees completely. I have tested many rounds and come to the same conclusion!" Really Phil? So, why did you bother to ask for a contribution from someone else, only to insert your own comments? Rather arrogant don't you think old boy?

Take a look at the section on "foreign rifles". The evaluation of the Japanese Arisakas was written by another author and, again, Phil sticks his two bits worth in though with a statement (paraphrased) like this "This author agrees. These foreign rifles are mostly junk and better hung on the wall!" The words "mostly junk" leave me cold since every bolt action military rifle I've examined are of good quality, designed to best engineering of the day and designed to defend against enemies....and as we all know, the type 38 and 99 Japanese rifles are about the toughest guns ever built.

I'll continue to treasure my copy of Sharpe's book, along with all the others I have. But he sure wouldn't be my "go to" expert on anything.

Now, Sharpe's book is full of interesting information on pre and post war reloading equipment, load data (all obsolete) and was obviously put together by someone who's done a lot with firearms. But his rather snotty writing style I can do without.

1hole
03-10-2021, 09:54 AM
I accept that Sharpe was a jerk in many ways; I don't care.

No one knows everything, at least not since Elmer Keith died, so I don't automatically surrender my beliefs to anyone but I do like to hear other folk's experienced opinions even if I wouldn't care to share a cup of coffee with them. Proof: I have valued books by Phil Sharpe, Chas. Askins and Jack(***) O'Conner in my library.

johniv
03-11-2021, 11:12 PM
I accept that Sharpe was a jerk in many ways; I don't care.

No one knows everything, at least not since Elmer Keith died, so I don't automatically surrender my beliefs to anyone but I do like to hear other folk's experienced opinions even if I wouldn't care to share a cup of coffee with them. Proof: I have valued books by Phil Sharpe, Chas. Askins and Jack(***) O'Conner in my library.

Nailed it!

uscra112
03-16-2021, 10:57 AM
Relentless self promoters tend to write books. Thus, it's no surprise that Elmer, Sharpe, Ackley, et.al. are the ones we are reading. Q.E.D.

Shawlerbrook
03-16-2021, 04:58 PM
Many pioneers like Sharpe, Edison, etc were egomaniacs. I think that’s part of their personality that drives them to be leaders in their respective fields.

uscra112
03-16-2021, 05:00 PM
Like Elon Musk? (just sayin')

Rapier
06-09-2021, 07:28 PM
Well I am lucky to have met some of the pioneers and their family members over the years. I was given a first edition, signed copy of Sharpe’s reloading guide, signed by another author, Forrest G “Jim” Tilton whom wrote Lugers Unlimited. Jim owned the largest collection of Lugers in the world and the largest collection of Ohio rifles in the world, was the President of the Ohio Rifle Collectors Assoc. Jim was an old curmudgeon for sure but a great friend to have at your back when the dung hit the rotor blades.
I had occasion to loan my excellent condition copy of the Sharpe book to the museum at the USAF R&D center, to copy some pages, because some moron had torn over 20 pages from their book.
There is a picture in the Sharpe book of the slanted point penetrator bullet, invented in the US, that the US paid the Swiss $50k for, because they repatented the bullet that was used in the 5.56 round. Go through the pictures, you will find it.

John Boy
06-13-2021, 03:14 PM
I use Phil’s book for one purpose … lots of classic old caliber loading data that can’t be found any where else except in Cartridge Conversions with the complete cartridge dimensions but with only one powder/standard bullet. Ideal catalogs are also helpful

Alferd Packer
06-18-2021, 06:24 AM
We can learn a lot from the oltimers and as one of them used to often say to me- we can also learn how NOT to do it as well!

uscra112
06-18-2021, 07:57 AM
We can only criticize them because we have so much instrumentation they didn't have. Chronographs we can buy out of pocket money cost six months' wages in 1940. Even gunwriters often judged pressure by bolt lift and case expansion. Even the factory labs had only the copper crusher method, which tells ypu nothong about rise time and rate of decay. The only computer they had was a slide rule. Of COURSE they did a lot of things we think are crazy.....now.

1hole
06-18-2021, 10:30 AM
The only computer they had was a slide rule. Of COURSE they did a lot of things we think are crazy.....now.

Yeah. And with those silly ol' slide rules they produced the A bomb, supersonic airplanes, took us to the moon and back, and - would you believe? - produced computers. All things considered, those old guy's records aren't too shabby. (And they were smart enough to have no confusion about needing to stand or sit on urinals! :))

dannyd
06-18-2021, 01:25 PM
1hole, going to think I’m a real caveman; I only have a KJB and still use slide rule.

284696

uscra112
06-18-2021, 01:31 PM
I can't say I use it, but i know where mine is. An aluminum K&E that I bought when I was in high school (class of '63). We geeks all had leather scabbards, and wore them on our belts like gunfighters.

Very old joke: Ask an engineer what's two times two. Answer: About four.







;

1hole
06-18-2021, 09:28 PM
1hole, going to think I’m a real caveman; I only have a KJB and still use slide rule.

Danny, if you know how to use them correctly then you have all most folk will ever need.

Four function pocket calculators with memory were available from HP and TI in the early 70s for about $400 (and up) but they have been available for $1 each for decades now; they stay in my shirt pocket much better than slide rules, and liquid crystal displays are MUCH easier to read! My old slide rules are still around here somewhere but it's been so long since I used one I fear I have forgotten how ... and I don't care.

Bottom line, old stuff such as slide rules and the KJV was and remains usable but somewhat like digital TV, cell phones and the NKJV, the newer stuff we worked so long and hard to develop really is better in every way.

alamogunr
06-19-2021, 12:10 PM
I can't say I use it, but i know where mine is. An aluminum K&E that I bought when I was in high school (class of '63). We geeks all had leather scabbards, and wore them on our belts like gunfighters.

Very old joke: Ask an engineer what's two times two. Answer: About four.




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I bought a K&E mahogany rule when I was a freshman engineering student in 1960. Couldn't afford a new one so I bought a used one in a pawn shop on Beale Street in Memphis, TN. It was stolen along with some books when I was a Jr at UT. I found one of the books in a used book store a couple of days later when shopping to replace the ones that were stolen. Reported it to administration and they came down on the bookstore and got me my books and they identified the one that sold them. To stay out of court, he reimbursed me for the slide rule. The book store had already supplied me with replacement books. I then bought a Post Versalog rule. Used that for a few years until I could afford a "scientific" calculator. Still have it, mostly as an item of interest for grandchildren.8