Sub-zero s s pin tumbling?

[georgerkahn]

With 11*s last night, and more cold to come/stay in my area, I had very reluctantly drained liquids from my hi-speed Thumler's Tumbler which I regularly use to tumble my brass. So much have I used it, my slo-speed one with walnut shells has been collecting dust. I just had a flash of "brilliance" with the idea if anyone has used an anti-freeze solution along with the Dawn, Armor-All Wash 'n Wax, and LemiShine to again make their brass sparkle?

In my neck of the woods they purvey fairly inexpensive "non-toxic" "RV Anti-freeze Solution" ranging in the three to five dollar per gallon range. My thought would be to possibly use this instead of water for initial mix; then, take drained brass (sans pins) into house for rinsing in a sink I have in reloading room. Might this work? (NOT a chemist, I quiver at ignorantly mixing chemicals I know so little about)

Has anyone tried this or similar? YES: The two solutions are 1/ Put the ss tumbler to rest for winter months, just using the walnut shell one; and 2/ bring the wet tumbler into house -- which is something I'm not going to do. Hence, to use the "wet" with a non-freezing solution may be my solution.

Any ideas?

geo

[brass410]

be vewwry vewwry carefwul some of them rv antifreezes have undesirable chem contents amonias and rust inhibitors and such.

[ericandelaine1975]

I haven't done it but I work at a radiator shop. The chemicals in antifreeze corrodes pretty much any metal over time. You'd have to extensively wash your brass after you use that on them. Even then I personally wouldn't trust that it was all completely removed.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[brass410]

I thinks you might want to just add some alcohol of sorts (the sort you use for making case lubes, not consuming by the case) most commercial antifreezes have undesireable contents like ammonia and scale inhibitors.

[Camper64]

Cheap vodka might work.

[georgerkahn]

Thanks for the great responses! I had a hunch using the RV-antifreeze may not be a wise solution.... dang! Every year it seems "worser" for me to go through the winter without this tool/toy! For many, I'm sure it is not thaaat many, but I can document between 4,000 and 5,000 cases wet-cleaned this summer, alone. I used to swear by both ultrasonic (I have a Hornady) and walnut.corncob tumbling -- til I discovered the wet ss method.
I had not thought of alcohol as an anti-freeze. I hear Camper64's admonition to reserve the Grey Goose for other purposes ;) -- but, again my ignorance: Isopropyl alcohol? I'm not thinking of the real cold (negative zero, Fahrenheit) days -- we do get many in the teens to high twenty-degree range -- so I really would not need to lower freezing point thaaaat much. Initial straining in garage with me wearing rubber gloves to keep hands dry...
geo

[redhawk0]

looks like there could be another use for Royal Crown...just make sure to sift the pins out before your next party. :razz:

redhawk

[Moleman-]

Set your tumbler up and have a spot lamp with a 100w bulb pointed at it a foot away or whatever it takes to not let the tumbler get hot. Should keep it above freezing

[labradigger1]

looks like there could be another use for Royal Crown...just make sure to sift the pins out before your next party. :razz:

redhawk

I can think of another use for the royal crown

[JimB..]

Start with 150 degree water, it won’t freeze in 3 hours if you’re above zero.

If you’re really worried, put a cardboard box over the tumbler and put a light bulb (incandescent, not LED) or reptile heater in with it.

[Carrier]

I just do it in my basement in the winter as that’s where I do everything else. Don’t think I would use any kind of antifreeze other than what’s in my vehicles and in my travel trailer plumbing.
The reason I got into wet tumbling is I wouldn’t have a dry one in my house that’s for sure

[woodbutcher]

;)Hi Redhawk0.It`s Crown Royal.Royal Crown is a soda pop.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[redhawk0]

;)Hi Redhawk0.It`s Crown Royal.Royal Crown is a soda pop.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

After rereading my post...I realized that...maybe I had a bit too much Crown Royal before posting...hahaha

redhawk

[labradigger1]

I just re read what I wrote as well, I plea auto correct.

[Greg S]

Just build a blue board box to put over it with a 40-60 watt bulb or reptile heating pad underneath it.

[NyFirefighter357]

Start with 150 degree water, it won’t freeze in 3 hours if you’re above zero.

If you’re really worried, put a cardboard box over the tumbler and put a light bulb (incandescent, not LED) or reptile heater in with it.

Hot water freezes faster than cold water. The water isn't going to freeze while tumbling. If you use a timer and it sits forgotten that is where the problem would be. Isopropyl I.E. cheap rubbing alcohol would work if you really think you need it.

[redhawk0]

I'd bet windshield wash anti-freeze would work. Its not much more that Methanol alcohol and water. It won't harm auto paint/chrome. I can't see it would damage brass either.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2015/11/whats-windshield-washer-fluid-keeps-freezing/

redhawk

[georgerkahn]

So many great solutions (pun intended) -- THANKS again to all! I read redhawk0's link, and even added the 1936 Windshield Washer reference to my "fun fact" database :). I hadn't thought of using windshield washer fluid; nor -- what I may in fact really try: inverting a fairly huge Styrofoam box cooler over it -- I do believe the size is "right" -- with a tubular (like in aquarium hoods) 40 watt incandescent bulb adjacent to the tumbler. One of my never-ending fears is the f-word (fire), so I'd not do this without me being in, at least, the nearby house. Sounds like a plan worth exploring -- from, say, 9:30AM through 4ish PM, I may be able to clean quite a few cases.
geo

[JimB..]

Hot water freezes faster than cold water.

Often true, but in the described scenario cold water will freeze faster than hot.

[McFred]

What happens if you tumble with the pins dry?

[lightman]

I would not think that the water would freeze until the tumbler stops. Just time it so that you are there to empty it when it quits. I would consider taking it inside to separate the media from the cases. I would be afraid of any anti-freeze solution and I'm thinking the alcohol would be an added expense.

[nvreloader]

Geo

For the last 8-10yrs, I have wet pin tumble year round, I have never had a problem during the COLD months,
down to -10* daytime temps, inside the non heated shop.

I run my Tumbler Model "B" big model with the normal hot water, Lemshine and Dawn soap and 10#'s of pins,
pop the top, dump the dirty water, then drain/wash the clean brass with hot water, then spread the brass on a cookie sheet,
and place the brass under the wood burner stove to dry off etc, I run about a 1 hr time per tumble time..

I drain the bbl and leave pins in the bottom, so I can start with a fresh/clean bbl full of hot water for the next session etc.

The only problem I have found, is with the very cold temps, during the drain/wash cycle, the brass will collect/freeze together,
I have learned to soak them in HOT tap water, shake off the excess water and then get the brass inside to house to dry ASAP.

HTH,

Tia,
Don

[Mal Paso]

Hot water freezes faster than cold water.

False It is possible for warmer water to freeze faster but most often the reverse is true.

[brass410]

all I know about hot water freezing, is that it makes crystal clear ice if you use hot water, looks really neat in a glass of vodka. I have been told its because there is less oxygen in the water.

[1bluehorse]

looks like there could be another use for Royal Crown...just make sure to sift the pins out before your next party. :razz:

redhawk


BLASPHEMY............!! [smilie=l:

[redhawk0]

BLASPHEMY............!! [smilie=l:

Hahaha...the reaction I was going for. :drinks:

redhawk

[georgerkahn]

Kind of hate to give a serious reply ;) -- sort of -- but it was low to mid 20*s out and I had a bunch of .44 S&W Sp. to clean, so I used 70ish degree distilled water (89 cents from Wal*Mart) with my "normal" mix of Dawn, Armor All Wash n Wax, and LemiShine. Much to my relief, nothing looked like it was even beginning to freeze at the end of my four-hour tumbling. I donned plastic dish-washing gloves to keep my fingers dry, and removed brass with my hands, one at a time (to rinse/drop out pins) as I normally do in warmer temps. The challenge I then had -- basically my only one -- was in getting the plastic bucket of now clean brass into house, and rinsed -- but this was due 100% due to my bum leg/mobility. I had planned on taking rinsed brass back out, to use the Frankfort brass dryer -- but, with EDT ended, -- it got too dark out too quickly -- so I just scattered the brass on an old towel. Bion, the next morning it was pretty much all alllmost dry, no water spots or the like, and I reckoned in a day or two it will be dry enough to use! Bion, I just loaded a bunch on my Dillon 550b, and they seemed as fine as ones done in the summer.
Perhaps I got too cautious re the freeze potential? In any case, I did my first sub-freezing (32* in Fahrenheit :) ) tumbling, without a problem! By golly, as long as days in the 20*s come... I anticipate continued success.
This is great not just for me, but also for those who wish not to contaminative their "Royal Crown".

[NyFirefighter357]

False It is possible for warmer water to freeze faster but most often the reverse is true.

https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/why-hot-water-freezes-faster-than-cold-physicists-solve-the-mpemba-effect-d8a2f611e853

https://www.sciencealert.com/does-hot-water-really-freeze-faster-than-cold-water

[Walks]

Wasn't alcohol the "first" anti-freeze.
I imagine a quarter - half cup of plain old rubbing alcohol couldn't hurt. Maybe just a little piece of mind.

[Mal Paso]

https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/why-hot-water-freezes-faster-than-cold-physicists-solve-the-mpemba-effect-d8a2f611e853

https://www.sciencealert.com/does-hot-water-really-freeze-faster-than-cold-water

"at times seems to" is not the same as happens all the time.

[georgerkahn]

I again need voice my total ignorance as a "chemist". I still haven't resolved the comments I've read where the use of Dawn and Armor All Wash n Wax, mixed, counter each other. (?? RHETORIC comment -- not to start a new thread vis "Chemistry 101" :) ) To add still another chemical -- well, as stated, I'm not smart enough to know all its effects -- if, I would hope, there'd be none. Back in 1965 (age 17) I had a job working in a supermarket, and to clean a real scuzzy dairy cooler I wandered the aisles, throwing pretty much all products I thought would work to do the cleaning in my cart, and then a cleaning bucket. "Yes", if you've already guessed this, I was most grateful I didn't get fired as I had mixed ammonia and Clorox. NOwheres on each container was there a warning suggesting ammonium chloride gas would be released by their being mixed! Since that event -- store WAS evacuated, albeit it it was about 7AM with only a handful of customers -- I've developed a keen respect towards the consequences of "mixing stuff".
geo

[brass410]

I once mixed a oinion sandwich with a burrito and a slightly off beer. man talk about chemical reaction. I thought the environment people where going to fence me off like a nuclear area.

[lightman]

I've used both Dawn and ArmorAll in my tumbler but not together. I've pretty well dropped the Dawn and use the wash-in-wax with LemiShine now. Mater of fact, I've been tumbling brass for the last few days. Waiting on the timer to time out on a load right now.

[Carrier]

I've used both Dawn and ArmorAll in my tumbler but not together. I've pretty well dropped the Dawn and use the wash-in-wax with LemiShine now. Mater of fact, I've been tumbling brass for the last few days. Waiting on the timer to time out on a load right now.

I dropped the Dawn a couple years ago. Went with Armor All as well and it does better job.

[David2011]

The Thumbler motor creates a lot of heat; at least mine do. I would think that just inverting a cardboard box over the tumbler would keep it above freezing. They’re designed to run for extended periods of time so you might just let it run overnight. I’ve kept plants from freezing using a cardboard box and a 25 watt light bulb, worked down to 15*F or so. Colder than that I let nature take its course.

[toallmy]

I don't think I'd be to interested in wet tumbling brass outside if it was in the teens , and I had to worry about the water freezing , I'd be more worried about me freezing . I'd shoot dirty brass until spring .

[nvreloader]

IMHO

I don't want to run dirty brass thru my dies, it can't be good for them etc.

I clean, then reload clean brass to shoot,
then I don't have to worry about all the grit inside the cases, that can't be seen, and is blown thru the bbl etc.

YMMV,

Tia,
Don

[John Boy]

A chasing a tail thread. Just bring the tumbler in a heated building and forget about all these ideas How to run the tumbler in freezing weather

[Grmps]

Set your tumbler up and have a spot lamp with a 100w bulb pointed at it a foot away or whatever it takes to not let the tumbler get hot. Should keep it above freezing

You could put your tumbler in a box with a lightbulb. They do this a lot to keep wellheads from freezing, why not a tumbler.

[catmandu]

With the thought of using alcohol- how about dry gas? Dollar store type, could get several batches out of one bottle depending on batch size.

“I like my martini’s tumbled not stirred” James will have to modify his famous tag line.

Paul in WNY

[Kenstone]

I would think that automotive windshield washer fluid would work for wet tumbling below freezing.
jmo
:mrgreen: