Caliber for new can

[jeffsmith13]

Hello all,
I’m looking for opinions on your favorite caliber for hunting up to .458 as I have a new suppressor, lane scorpion 458 titanium. I’m looking for a balance between enough weight for through and through penetration on deer and hogs and diminishing returns with too much weight . Do you have a favorite caliber considering sectional density, trajectory,, and penetration? I already have an integral 77/44 which I love and a 45/70 single shot. The new can offers possibilities for new caliber and platform. I guess I’m wondering how much weight is enough and can what I already have be taken a step farther?
I reload and have AR rifle and pistol and am considering an encore
I should add all loads will be subsonic

[osteodoc08]

I’ve found that a dedicated 30 cal can, such as my Silencerco Saker, can be utilized on anything 300 WM and down and can’t wait to get my approval as I’m testing it on my 300 BLK, 280 AI, 6.5 CM and others and can’t wait. If I can’t get it done with my 280 AI in the lower 48, I probably need my 45/70.

[birch]

This is the one you want! I have heard this can on a .22, .223, 308 and 7mm ultramag. It is incredible on all of them. Blackhawk also has a version of this can.....they are a defunct company now, but silencerco is servicing them. They are a bunch cheaper and are actually manufactured by silencerco for Blackhawk before they went out of business. handles anything from .22 to 45-70 with sound pressures almost the same as their dedicated counterparts.

https://silencerco.com/silencers/hybrid/

[jeffsmith13]

I own a couple of suppressors already, I’m looking for a load with enough weight without being too much. 338 spectre interest me as does the 458 socom, I only shoot subs

[Oily]

You already have the 44 and the 45/70. 2 great subsonics for close range. Only thing I can add would be 358 win or 35 Whelen. Longer boolits better trajectory for a little more range. And in your AR 458 SOCOM, 45/70 ballistics in a AR. I personally just use 30 cal with 200+ grain flat nose large meplat boolits and they will almost always do a through and through broadside. I have had 165 grain ranch dog style boolits hard cast go in the chest area and are found in the hind quarters area but not ruining any meat.

[jeffsmith13]

Great information Oily, I’ll look at the 35 , I’ve looked at the socom but it looks like overkill. I think a 45/70 similar to your ranch dog round would be okay, maybe a 325 gr

[Smoke4320]

a 458 socom is generally/approx. 10% faster that a 45/70.. the benefit is a quick follow up shot if needed
really good if you are in pig land

[Moonie]

Our first one was 30 caliber, the one currently in NFA jail is 35 caliber so we can use it on a couple of 9mm pistols in addition to my sons new AR-10 pattern rifle.

[bikerbeans]

My son and i have a trust and have been waiting for the paperwork for almost a year. I have one of the .458" platforms ready and waiting for the can. It shoots the subsonic 500g PC boolits fine with a flash hider. I hope the can doesn't mess with the accuracy. Rifle is a marlin levergun chambered to shoot 1.8" belted magnum brass.

BB

[dk17hmr]

I think Lane rates that can for 458 win mag, if that’s the case that’s what I would build. You can load it sub sonic with trailboss pretty easy. If it’s for hunting I would go with as large of a bullet diameter as you can and not rely on expansion or tumbling.

[jeffsmith13]

It is rated for 458 win mag but I already have 45-70 so I don’t think I’ll find a larger diameter bullet. I’m shooting 240 and 300 gr xtp out of the 44 integral and powder coated 320 wfn hardcast lead . The 45-70 I’ve only shot jacketed bullets so far but I want to cast a large meplat bullet for it but don’t know how much weight is enough and how much is too much.
As a side note, the folks at Lane are top notch. I can’t say enough about their customer service and support.

[jeffsmith13]

Also most shots are at pigs under 100 yards. I’ve bow hunted for over 30 years so up close and personal suits me and range estimates are near second nature. I’ve taken hogs with the 45-70 and my AR-10 but haven’t taken a deer with a gun since 2002 , bow only. I’m considering subsonic only hunting for deer, again close range.

[dk17hmr]

I have read that about the Lane Suppressor company before. I "need" to get a 338 can maybe I'll look into their offerings a little more

Diameter is your friend with sub sonic if you are body shooting.

[Outpost75]

For my low noise whacker John Taylor built for me a .45 ACP / .455 single-shot. He used a .38-40 reamer to rough the chamber, so that the barrel also has a rim seat. The shoulder of the .38-40 reamer provides a .455" diameter throat with 6-1/2 degree forcing cone so that cast bullets can be seated out to increase powder capacity. He then finish reamed with a normal .45 ACP reamer to provide a stop-surface at the case mouth for the .45 ACP case to headspace on.

John's rimless ejector drops to clear the circumference of the case body when the action is opened, so that either .45 ACP or .455 Eley rounds drop into the chamber of their own weight, and as the action is closed the extractor engages the rim so that the thin rim of .455s headspaces correctly and fired brass ejects smartly as the action is opened.

The rifle fires either .44 Game Getter Shot assembled in Starline 5 in 1 blank cases, .45 ACP or .455 rounds interchangibly. Velocity is about 700 fps with the Accurate 45-290H and 3.5 grains of Bullseye which is nearly silent without needing a "can." Military .455 service loads give 680 fps and exit the barrel reliably, with noise a bit louder than firing an air rifle. Ordinary .45 ACP GI hardball groups about an inch at 25 yards.

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[dk17hmr]

I have a 45acp barrel on a Savage action. I shoot it suppressed. Sounds like a 22 short but rings steel like a champ.

[Jniedbalski]

I thank a single shot in 38 special or 45 acp would be about the perfect plinking gun for me.

[jeffsmith13]

I have corresponded with Mr Taylor about converting a 410 single shot shotgun to 45 acp previously, now I may have to look at it again. That looks fantastic

[Outpost75]

I also have a .38 Special and a .38 S&W barrel for "The Infamous Bunny Gun."

The small powder capacity of the similar .38 S&W cartridge is an advantage for this purpose and is the prudent gunsmith’s choice to safely restore black powder action rook rifles to service. Standard-pressure, smokeless .38 S&W revolver loads, at less than 14,000 psi, using fast-burning powders like Bullseye, produce ballistics from a rifle very much like the .38 Special fired from a 6-inch target revolver.

My objective was to enjoy a mild, small capacity cartridge producing ballistics almost like a large-caliber air rifle, i.e. a heavy, blunt, slow bullet, producing low noise, being accurate out to 50 yards. I wanted to explore the possibility of using as heavy a bullet as could be launched at the lowest velocity which would reliably exit the barrel, which we found to be about 600 fps.
I selected a 1:10" twist 9mm barrel to provide adequate gyroscopic stability with the Accurate 36-190T launched quietly at less than 700 fps.

John Taylor turned down and fitted the Green Mountain "Gunsmith Special" 9mm Parabellum barrel and chambered it with a Manson .38 S&W "Rook Rifle" reamer having a 3 degrees Basic forcing cone of .363" major diameter at the case mouth, which engraves the nose of the 36-190T Accurate bullet upon chambering, just like Eley Tenex chambered in Dad's Winchester 52.
The Accurate 36-190T (190-grain flat-nose) soft lead bullet being extruded via a gradual forcing cone into the origin of rifling, appears highly satisfactory. Fired cases eject easily, being lightly smoked, with rounded primers, and the powder burns whistle clean, indicating efficient use of its tiny powder charge. Charges which have proven accurate in both rifle and revolver are 2 grains of TiteGroup or Bullseye with Accurate 36-190T bullet or 2.5 grains with the 36-151H, 36-155D or 36-159H.

The resulting "Lettuce Protector" is 34-1/2 inches long and weighs 4-1/2 pounds. I have found it best to utilize an "optimum trajectory" in which the maximum bullet rise over its 100 yard useful trajectory does not exceed about 3 inches. I take a 6:00 hold on a typical small game animal until the front sight bead about covers the critter, and then if it does, I just blot him out and shoot.

With the .38 S&W cartridge this works out to a 75 yard zero and a 90-yard "point blank" range at which the path of the trajectory drops about 3" below line of sight. The maximum useful range where rifle velocity decays to about the same level as a revolver near the muzzle is 150 yards, with 36 inches of drop, about the height of an Army E silhouette if you must discourage or repel marauding, Wild Indians, Sasquatch, or Zombies invading your garden vegetable patch.

Ten-shot groups fired with factory loads and simple open sights average 3" at 50 yards, and 6" at 100 yards. This is about the same as I do with an open-sighted lever-action cowboy rifle. Ordinary .38 LRN service loads fired from a Universal Receiver and test barrel seldom do much better than 2-1/2" at 50 yards. So, shooting open sights I am happy with 3" at 50 and 6" at 100 yards. Entirely adequate for making "gong music" on the steel targets and scaring Mr.Wabbit.

With the lightest charge I can measure, 1.7 grains of Bullseye from the RCBS Little Dandy Rotor #00, they exit the 20 inch barrel every time, are quiet enough to shoot without ear protection. The slow bullets whacking the steel targets make more noise than the gun going off. Results with typical cast bullet handloads and factory loads of .38 S&W loads in rifle and typical revolvers are shown in the accompanying table. I think the .38 S&W represents “Cat Sneeze Perfection!”
 
.38 S&W Loads Fired In Revolver and Rook Rifle Showing Effect of Cylinder Gap and Barrel length:

Firearm____________S&W 32-1____Colt_______Ruger____S&W Victory___Rook Rifle
Barrel length__________2”___________4”________4”________5 ”___________20”
Cyl. Gap_____________0.005_______0.005______.005______. 009_________Solid bbl.
Vintage Ammunition________________________________________ __________________
FN 82 Mk2z FMJ______577,8 Sd_____616, 10_____618,19 ___571,22____Bullet Stuck in Bbl!
Kynoch 146LRN______623,26 ______649, 31_____650,22____685, 22_____ 848, 7
WRA 146LRN(WW2)__659, 10______701, 13_____727, 5____681, 14______787, 14

Modern Commercial Ammunition
Fiocchi 146 LRN_______706, 12_____809, 21_____820, 23_____709, 24____985, 9
R-P 146 LRN__________603, 14_____674, 12_____697,18_____627,22____790,10
W-W 146 LRN_________586, 18____593, 36_____662, 29_____620, 19____801, 12

.38 S&W Hand Loads Fired in Revolver And Rook Rifle
Firearm__________S&W 32-1___ S&W Reg.Pol.____S&W Victory___Rook Rifle
Barrel length__________2”_________4”_____________5”______ _____20”
Cyl. Gap_____________0.005______.005___________.009____ _____Solid bbl.

Accurate 36-151H
2.5 Bullseye__________629, 8_____724, 12_________674, 12_______836, 22
3.7 AutoComp________605, 19____730, 19_________732, 20_______964, 15
4.2 AutoComp +P_____754, 26____not fired________not fired______1064, 9 Do Not Exceed

Accurate 36-155D
1.7 Bullseye__________470, 18____495, 27_________493, 23_______630, 32, Min. to Exit Barrel
2.5 Bullseye__________629, 8_____727, 12_________680, 25_______856, 22_Fact.dup.load
6.3#2400____________696, 26____801, 20_________784, 24_______1058, 23 Do Not Exceed

Magtech (Brazil) 158-grain LRN .358” diameter, soft lead cupped base
2.1 TiteGroup________550, 34____632, 20_________614, 17_______762, 14 Very quiet in rifle


Accurate 36-190T
1.7 Bullseye________485, 9_____545, 15_______496, 18______560, 23 Min. to Exit Barrel
2.1 Bullseye________547, 15____630, 16_______572, 15______681, 10
3.0 AutoComp______668, 4_____732, 15_______674, 20______825, 16 Do Not Exceed
2.5 Bullseye________645, 10____686, 5________704, 8_______800, 11 Do Not Exceed

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[jeffsmith13]

Outpost75 , thank you for the post and all the information, truly great read. I’d love to have a 45 acp with a hardcast behind some ramshot enforcer.
Dk17hmr I’d love to see pictures of the savage. You all make me want to spend some money

[jeffsmith13]

Sending the 45-70 to Class 3 Machining for a cut and thread and buying a 8” pistol upper in 458 socom for the AR .I believe I’ll send Mr Taylor the H&R to have a 45 acp barrel made , any iron sight recommendation would be appreciated.
Merry Christmas everyone

[dk17hmr]

The video makes it louder than it really is, 200gr SWC at about 1000fps.

https://youtu.be/rwv6J1VKsH8

My dad and I use it for blasting pdogs at close range from the truck. 185gr xtps at 1350fps make a mess.
http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg542/dkrusk01/972_zpsrfaqnqpq.jpeg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/dkrusk01/media/972_zpsrfaqnqpq.jpeg.html)

I have some 45 super loaded with 165gr Hydro Shocks and 460 Rowland level powder charges. I need to group and Chrono it... I'm expecting above 1700fps from those.

I have a 200gr SWC load that prints 1 slightly larger than caliber sized hole at 20 yards I'm planning on rabbit hunting with it. I have had rabbits make it down their hole with sub Sonic 22s even head shooting. Subsonic 45 in the head should help that problem

[jeffsmith13]

I like that setup ,who did the Savage work ?

[dk17hmr]

Barrel is from Apache gun works. I screwed it on.

[jeffsmith13]

I'll look them up thank you

[Catshooter]

dk,

Which Savage is that? Any feeding issues? I want one!


Cat

[dk17hmr]

I dont know 10 or 12 they are the same I think. I have a sharp shooters single shot follower in it and use it as a single shot. It's ridiculous but man is it fun with the can. Recoil is low enough that my 4 year old can shoot it prone with me holding the butt stock and blow up milk jugs like "daddy's big guns". 45acp doesn't meet the over all length requirement here to hunt with or I'd be hunting antelope with it. I'm thinking about having a barrel made in 45 win mag so I can hunt with it with like 325gr subs.

[Catshooter]

Nice Doug, thanks.


Cat

[Artful]

You may find it works ok with even 30 caliber guns


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM-f_LGua1Y

But by the time you get to 22 caliber it won't do much in my experience


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcS2oQXWuWg

Also cleaning is a consideration - Does your can disassemble for cleaning?

[jeffsmith13]

Yes , all my cans are user serviceable. I got my barrel back from class 3 machining today and I’m 100% happy. [ATTACH=CONFIG]232244

[jeffsmith13]

This ones 45-70 , I like big bullets with big meplats. I use powder coated lead for my 44 and 45-70 , haven’t tried any in my 45 acp. And I still want a 45 acp rifle.

[Artful]

I have another video you might like to see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwm_XC5OHQA

Oh and for 45 ACP rifle - SMLE #4 conversion SIA components

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5onQdyY8_1M
Which is louder than 38 spl thru the 45 can

[jeffsmith13]

Okay, I’m a tad jealous

[robg]

My mod on my 223 is a 30 cal works fine .