Got me a Rifled Barrel for my old A5 [Archive]

W.R.Buchanan

11-11-2018, 08:49 PM

I have had an old Browning A5 for a few years now that I bought as a project gun to make a Riot Gun out of. Have been looking kind of halfheartedly for a Hastings Rifled Barrel for the gun and actually wanted one for along time.

Well I won one today on Ebay! It is a Miruko one made in Japan which is not a problem as they a ll fit all the A5's

It came with a Tasco Scope and a B Square mount which I will probably sell. $190.50 total. Can't wait to see it arrive.

It is my birthday present to myself.

I will be shooting slugs with this barrel and as soon as the gun is setup the way I want it will be going to Front Sight for a Shotgun Class so I can learn how to run it.

Counting the hours. Picture sucks, I copied it off Ebay and shows the sharp and very prominent Rifling.

Randy

6pt-sika

11-12-2018, 07:30 AM

For some reason I was under the impression that Hastings barrels were made in France ?

Ranch Dog

11-12-2018, 07:46 AM

Can't see much from the picture, but I'm excited too!

I've been pondering how to store spare barrels in my reloading/gun room. I don't want to keep them in the safe as the standing room only has been long exceeded and my display racks are outside of their capacity as well. I've been searching for a wall mount of some kind just for the spare barrels, but have not come up with anything. It would be even better if it could secure the shotgun plus say, four or five barrels on the wall.

W.R.Buchanan

11-13-2018, 04:59 AM

Yeah the picture sucked. It looked better on Ebay and it shows the heavy rifling in this barrel. I'll take a better one when I get it.

I don't know where Hastings barrels are made, but this one is from Browning/Miroku. The other source was Belgium.

They all appear to have the same rear sight which is unique to Browning guns, and shows up on BLR's and others.

I have wanted one of these since I first saw them in my first Browning Catalog in the early 60's.

Mike I have 2 A5's this one which I bought a few years ago to make a Riot Gun out of (1950) and the pristine one my Uncle gave me in 1995. It was made in 1964 and is nearly perfect, simply because it has lived in a Browning Case with it's Full and Modified barrels for its entire life. All my good shotguns live in take down hard cases. It eliminates Safe Rash and bumps and bruises from mishandling.

My O/U's get taken to the range put together, shot, taken apart, wiped down with a Silicon Cloth, a bore snake run thru, then back in the case. No transportation damage ever.

Keep in mind these are all $2000+ guns so they do get special treatment.

My M 500 currently lives in a soft case at the foot of my bed and goes places in that mainly because it is being used most. The old A5 will end up in the safe with the rifles.

A rack with multiple hooks for various barrels wouldn't be a bad way to store a gun that gets used alot, as long as it didn't just sit there for long periods to collect dust.

Another thing to consider is Humidity, and safes need a Golden Rod Heater in them, and hard gun cases need Desiccate packs inside .

When I get this other gun up and running I may make a top loading Case for it.

Randy

NyFirefighter357

11-13-2018, 07:45 AM

I have 2 Belgium A-5's I don't know what all the Hub Bub is about them. I don't really like them. Hastings shows there rifled barrels for the classic A-5 won't fit the Miruko guns and that even the ones made for the classic A-5 may need to be hand fitted. https://www.hastingsdistribution.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=3. With that said, I do have 2 Marlin 512 Slug Masters with rifled barrels and slugs through a rifled barrel are a game changer. If I did more hunting I'd get either a Savage 220 or a rifled barrel for one of my 1100's. Good luck with the barrel, I use Hornady SST's & Nikon PROSTAFF Shotgun Hunter 2-7x32 Matte BDC 200.

Ranch Dog

11-13-2018, 08:29 AM

A rack with multiple hooks for various barrels wouldn't be a bad way to store a gun that gets used alot, as long as it didn't just sit there for long periods to collect dust.

Another thing to consider is Humidity, and safes need a Golden Rod Heater in them, and hard gun cases need Desiccate packs inside .
Thanks, Randy, that's the idea I was looking for. All the barrels have a slot where they meet the receiver, I can hang them through that slot. I have just the place for them.

My reloading/gun room is a stand alone room within a large metal barn/garage. It has its own central air/heat system. I run a Golden Rod in the safe. I have a display rack along a wall that starts at the entrance door, and I noticed that the firearms in that vertical display were getting rusty (light color on a paper towel). I figured it was the proximity to the door as it opens and closes. I ran a Golden Rod along the base of the display box and that took care of that. A note, LimbSavers don't like a Golden Rod with the confines of the safe. They will melt.

LUCKYDAWG13

11-13-2018, 08:45 AM

FWIW my smooth bore 870 barrel with sights shot as good as my rifled barrel did + you can shoot shot out of the smooth bore so you can mix and match your Ammo

W.R.Buchanan

11-17-2018, 11:29 PM

Well guys I got my rifled barrel for my A5 today. it came with a Tasco 3x9 scope a B-Square mount and rings.

Only one thing missing,,, The Rifling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!! it is a smooth bore!

This guy posted a pic of the breech end of the barrel and it very definitely showed rifling. It's not.

I was pretty hot about this and fired off a snotty letter to the guy,,, but I think I will keep it and then find a real rifled barrel in addition. I can use the gun with the smooth bore barrel for Front Sight where we fire the majority of rounds birdshot...

I was all hopped up to shoot the **** thing tomorrow with the Lyman slugs thru the rifled barrel and amaze everyone with the new accuracy standard.

Instead I'll probably stay home and work as I need some screws for the rear sight so I can't shoot it anyway.

Randy

tomme boy

11-18-2018, 02:39 AM

230571

No where in his ad states it is rifled. The pic kind of looks like it MAY be rifled. But what looks like rifling is in the chamber. Not in the bore. Sorry but I think you are in the wrong on this one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Browning-Auto-5-Barrel-Scope-And-Mount-/283239944242?nordt=true&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l10137

pashiner

11-18-2018, 08:27 AM

6pt-sika

11-18-2018, 11:05 AM

Another vote for hastings. Their distribution center is in the next town over from me, and I've dealt with them a little. Top notch products and service...limited selection though. Most of their stuff is manufactured by verney carron in france. I think it would be worth having one of their barrels fitted to that A5.

I have a pair of Belgium A-5 12 Mags . Have s Belgium smoothbore rifle sighted slug barrel already but I’ve started giving serious consideration to a Hastings rifled barrel .

6pt-sika

11-18-2018, 11:09 AM

W.R.Buchanan

11-18-2018, 02:45 PM

Tomme: No where in his listing does it say it is a Smooth Bore Barrel either. I can clearly see the rifling extend past the step in the chamber leading me to believe what you are seeing in the chamber area is reflection from the bore. Like if there was a light in the muzzle when the picture was taken. My wife who is expert in this says he probably "Copy Pasted" the pic from another listing. It happens to her all the time.

If there's no rifling in there then where'd that reflection come from?

I doubt the guy will take it back, but I will get my money back from Paypal or Ebay one way or another.

This barrel is also choked down to .715 at the muzzle so it won't even shoot slugs right. It was designed to shoot buckshot exclusively.

Honing the choke out of the barrel would be a problem to get done right and probably cost more than it's worth. Maybe cutting it to 20" and reattaching the Front Sight could work. But those are solutions to a problem I don't want to deal with. I just wanted a Rifled Barrel to shoot slugs thru, not a project.

But it is going back as soon as the guy responds. We have had to do returns many times and it's no big deal except you have to eat the shipping back to you. It is incentive to be very precise with your descriptions.

The Description could have been,,, "Browning Buck Special Smooth Bore Barrel with Rifle Sights, made in Japan" Simple as that, and I would have passed.

Life goes on, and my Birthday Cake was the highlight of my day. My Birthday present kind of missed the mark.

Randy

longbow

11-18-2018, 03:31 PM

Randy:

Not trying to dilute your dismay but the choked barrel may be okay with slugs. I have a buck and slug barrel for my Browning BPS and it says I/C choke but mikes at 0.710" so TIGHT for I/C. It shoots slugs as well as my cylinder bore gun except you can't use hard cast full bore slugs in it. Softish Fosters or sub bore round balls in wads only.

If you can get your money back that would be a good thing. If not it may still be useful or you could sell it.

On the subject of rifled barrels, I just found a used rifled barrel for my Slugster at Ellwood Epps! $150.00 CDN so a good deal and the add says excellent condition. So now I am wondering if I should buy that, as I doubt I'll find one cheaper, or look for a Maverick 88 with rifled barrel. I just found a new Maverick with rifled barrel for $239.00 CDN. Not bad and the barrels are interchangeable...and I wouldn't mind rough handling of a Maverick new or not. My understanding is that they are basically a cheaper version of the Mossberg 500 but with double action bars and such, just not as well finished.

I was certainly happy with the Slugster from Ellwood Epps! Excellent service and good price from a store. I'd expect the same service for the barrel.

I am just about to head to the range to try that baby out today! Range report to follow.

Longbow

tomme boy

11-18-2018, 11:01 PM

My Remington smoothbore slug barrel is also choked at 0.710" and listed at I/C so that is a moot point. It also will shoot 5" groups at 75yds with Win fosters so you just need to go shoot it and see what it does.

W.R.Buchanan

11-19-2018, 03:52 PM

We ran a bore gauge down it and my Vang Comped barrel yesterday and the bore on the A5 barrel is .730 and the choke is .715

The bore on the Vang Comped Barrel was .755 and the choked end was .735. I wonder if Hans Vang got the idea form his process from these earlier barrels? but since he was converting Cylinder bores he had to back bore and leave some choke at the end.

I may just keep that barrel and use it for bird and buck and the few slugs I shoot at Front Sight. I think Federal Factory Slugs will go thru just fine. Will take one apart today and verify sizes.

I don't see it working with the Lyman Sabot Slugs as the front driving band will shear the wad petals off as they go thru the choke. I'll try some just to see,,, but that slug is why I want the rifled barrel.

Anyway, I have to go make money now so I'll get back later.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

11-19-2018, 09:03 PM

OK guys just to show you how serious I am about this project, I managed to pick up a Hastings Rifled barrel today for the A5. It looked pretty good in the photos and is definitely,,,, "Rifled!!!"

Should have it in a few days.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

11-21-2018, 08:48 PM

So this project is taking on some new twists.

First; The smoothbore barrel I got for my Birthday is a keeper. This barrel will be used for 3 gun shoots and classes where I need to shoot birdshot, slugs and buckshot.

I measured the barrels interior the other day with one of my friends bore gauges and found it to measure .730 on the nose and .715 at the muzzle. Then some chimed in that their barrels with IC chokes shot slugs pretty well, and this got me to thinking so I posted a thread at www.trapshooters.com which is the home of the Internet Shotgun Gurus.

I had a guy call me directly and he is a guy who installs chokes in shotguns as well as fixes them when they get screwed up. He had some interesting things to say. Apparently Ithaca found that it's "Deerslayer" guns performed with slugs better if there was some choke added to the barrel. Closer research indicates that many Smoothbore Slug Barrels for other MFG's including Browning, also have some choke in them, suggesting that maybe they know something we don't.

The Browning Barrel I got has angled marks in the choked area that indicate it had been fired with slugs. The idea that this is conveying, is that with "Rifled Slugs" the choke causes the "Lands"of the slug to "bite" and impart some rotation to the slug, thus improving accuracy.

Kind of a reverse of Paradox Style Rifling. I have no answers to back this theory up other than the fact that many Smoothbore Slug barrels are done this way. Looking for someone who actually has some knowledge about this.

The question is whether or not this actually happens and if so how much spin does it impart?

When I get this gun up and running (it needs a complete tear down and replace a few internal parts) I will shoot it off the bench and with a variety of Factory Slugs and see which, if any, produce good results. My suspicion is that they will all shoot acceptably out to 50 yards, but what remains to be seen is performance beyond that out to 100 yards and maybe a little beyond.

Second: The Hastings Rifled Barrel should be here next week. I got that barrel specifically to shoot the Lyman Sabot Slugs or similar Sabot Slugs. I'm not into the Full Bore idea as I see many problems keeping the barrel clean, maybe with Powder Coating it could work? But this is where the .73 Caliber Rifle part comes in, and could the gun be viable for shooting moving targets? With 5 -8 rounds on board it certainly would give you enough chances to hit said moving target.

So that's where all this is going.

Randy

tomme boy

11-22-2018, 02:22 AM

bikerbeans

11-22-2018, 10:06 AM

Randy,

I have a Hastings 12ga rifled barrel on a Berreta a303. I have shot many FB slugs through this barrel without a leading problem. The slugs have been both lubed and unlubed. Slugs weigh over 1.5 oz and velocity around 1,300 fps. I use hardball alloy and heat treat the slugs.

BB

W.R.Buchanan

11-22-2018, 03:16 PM

Tomme: "The limiting factor is my eyes not being able to see the front sight."

"Progressive Lenses" and Fiber Optic Sights is the fix.

The stock Front Sights on both these barrels are stock Browning Sights and are barely visible. They are getting replaced with FO sights today. See Pics,,, In any kind of Daylight you can't miss these. I use this type of sight on most of my pistols and shotguns.

I have about 3-4 different factory slugs on hand. Mostly different Federals, Tactical LE, Low Recoil, 2 3/4" Maximums at 1610 fps. Will try others. I really want to try some of those Lightfield Slugs and some Brenneke's thru the smooth barrel.

I've got some BPI DGS Slugs that I got from the Italian makers before BPI had them. I only have 5 of them but they will serve to decide if I need to buy more. Probably not as I have the Lyman Sabot Slugs and will probably get a Lyman Foster mould too. Plenty of stuff to shoot thru that gun.

The Federal LE are what I shot at Front Sight last month, and they worked OK out of my M 500 with the Vang Comped barrel. Over there we shoot slugs at 35 and 50 yards on steel and paper targets so I don't need super duper accuracy from those. Still right at 2-2.5" at 50 yards is better than most get.

The Lymans will go thru both barrels but am looking at the Hastings Barrel for the "rifle like" accuracy,,, If it exists?

BB: what kind of accuracy do you get out of your Hastings Barrel with FB Slugs? 650 gr should put a pretty serious hole in stuff!

Randy

bikerbeans

11-22-2018, 04:52 PM

Randy,

3 to 4 inches at 60 yards with the hastings open sights shooting offhand. I have a redfield saddle mount but never shot these slugs with a scope. Same slugs in Marlin 512 with 4x scope will cut the group in half. Limiting factor on accuracy for me is the heavy recoil, followed by crappy SG triggers. I solved the recoil problem by building a fully rifled 410 +P+ lever action.

BB

centershot

11-22-2018, 07:01 PM

Try Win 2 3/4 fosters. They have always been the most accurate of the regular foster slugs. Remington has always been the least accurate. The Federal Trueball has been very accurate also but has been too expensive for me to shoot on a regular basis.

And no the slugs will not spin from going through the choke or from flying through the air. Someone is still living in the 1800's if they believe that.

Smoothbores can be accurate if you get a good one. My 870 can hit a 12" steel plate at 200yds with win fosters if you know where to aim. And that is 3 out of 4 shots. So it is not a hail mary type of shot. The limiting factor is my eyes not being able to see the front sight.

tommieboy, it has been proven that rifled slugs really DO spin as they fly. They don't spin like a rifle bullet but they do spin slowly. A "square" slug doesn't require much spin to stabilize, just as a 12 Ga. RB only needs a 1:100 or 1:120 rifling to stabilize. But rifled slugs DO spin!

https://wethearmed.com/shotguns/do-rifled-slugs-spin-from-a-smoothbore/?PHPSESSID=4231c66927924df78b773175fe4d706c

longbow

11-23-2018, 09:12 PM

Randy:

Are you aware that the Russian moulds are available in a Gualandi DGS clone along with the wads?

They also make a Tusker clone and Paradox clone though both are lighter weight and use the same attached wads as the Gualandi clone. The Gualandi clone appears to be near identical to the DGS unlike the other two which are similar but certainly not near identical.

Blood Trail has some of these moulds and may be able to tell you how well they worked. He may even have some slugs you could try.

Longbow

W.R.Buchanan

11-24-2018, 02:37 PM

I got a Lyman Foster Slug mould off Ebay the other day and I can play with it. The HB Pin on those moulds is not that hard to duplicate and I would want to make it smaller diameter to increase the weight and make the base stronger. Maybe taper it as well.

The Russian Moulds are interesting, but the thing that is most interesting is the wad with the Hose Barb on the end which plugs into the base of the slug.

That wad becomes the feathers on the shuttle cock and can be stuffed into anything that has a similar diameter.

Randy

RMc

11-24-2018, 03:31 PM

tommieboy, it has been proven that rifled slugs really DO spin as they fly. They don't spin like a rifle bullet but they do spin slowly. A "square" slug doesn't require much spin to stabilize, just as a 12 Ga. RB only needs a 1:100 or 1:120 rifling to stabilize. But rifled slugs DO spin!

https://wethearmed.com/shotguns/do-rifled-slugs-spin-from-a-smoothbore/?PHPSESSID=4231c66927924df78b773175fe4d706c

Well you missed: Do Rifled Slugs Spin from a smoothbore? Part 2

https://wethearmed.com/shotguns/do-rifled-slugs-spin-from-a-smoothbore-part-2/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

After the original discussion of this topic, I wondered if any studies of Rifled Slug rotation had been conducted.

Original discussion here:
http://wethearmed.com/shotguns/do-rifled-slugs-spin-from-a-smoothbore/

After some searching, I located this 1991 DOJ/FBI Report which documents slow rotation as a contributing factor to rifled slug accuracy:

"The slight rotation imparted by the ribs reduces the effect of manufacturing irregularities. In tests performed by Winchester-Western, the slug rotation was confirmed, resulting in consistently smaller groups for rifled slugs than unrifled slugs…"

"The basic Foster slug, however, remains a
hollow lead cup, heavier at the point. It has 14
small angled ribs swaged into the side of the
slug. The rifling tends to be obliterated by the
passage of the slug through the barrel, especially
through a full choke. Some spin does result
from the ribs, however, and tests show a very
slow spin of approximately one turn in 24 feet
of travel to one turn in 129 feet of travel,
depending upon the choke used. In 1980,
Remington and other slug manufacturers increased
the weight of 12-gauge rifle slugs to a
full 1 oz.
Neither Brenneke nor Foster slugs depend
upon the rifling ribs or projectile spin for stability.
The slugs are stable because they travel
through the air like a sand-filled sock with the
heavier toe forward (O'Connor 1965), unlike
symmetrical lead balls (Figure 3). The trailing
light end acts as a stabilizer. The slight rotation
imparted by the ribs reduces the effect of manufacturing
irregularities. In tests performed
by Winchester-Western, the slu.g rotation was
confirmed, resulting in consistently smaller
groups for rifled slugs than unrifled slugs
(Sterett 1966)."

Crime Laboratory, Digest April 1991 - Volume 18, No.2

Full report here:

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/132229NCJRS.pdf

What I find most interesting is the varying rate of spin noted for different amounts of choke constriction.

6pt-sika

11-26-2018, 06:53 PM

You brought up all this stuff about a rifled A-5 barrel and I found a used rifled Hastings A-5 Mag barrel today so I bought hopefully I’ll have it by Friday .

W.R.Buchanan

11-26-2018, 07:45 PM

pt: See how this stuff works? I've bought 2 barrels, 2 slug moulds a bunch of Wads and still need some more.

Still working on the A5 to get it to hold the bolt open after last shot. Found www.artsgunshop.com he is supposed to be Ex Browning and appears to know these guns inside out.

My gun is a 1950 model which doesn't have the Speed Feed Cartridge Lifter which is exactly what I wanted.. My '64 model has it and it is not something you want on a Competition Gun.

Once I get the bolt to stay open after the last shot I'll have it dialed in.

I got the Hastings Barrel in today and it is nice.The Groove dia is .730 and the lands are .715 or .0075 on a side deep. The interior of the barrel is a mirror finish and I have to say it's a pretty nice barrel.

I also got the Lyman Foster Slug Mould and it is decent as well.

A few doodads still out but should be shooting this one soon.

Randy

6pt-sika

11-26-2018, 08:52 PM

pt: See how this stuff works? I've bought 2 barrels, 2 slug moulds a bunch of Wads and still need some more.

Still working on the A5 to get it to hold the bolt open after last shot. Found www.artsgunshop.com he is supposed to be Ex Browning and appears to know these guns inside out.

My gun is a 1950 model which doesn't have the Speed Feed Cartridge Lifter which is exactly what I wanted.. My '64 model has it and it is not something you want on a Competition Gun.

Once I get hth bolt to stay open after the last shot I'll have it dialed in.

Randy

At the moment I have a pair of A-5 12 Mags one from 68 and the other from 71 . And I have four barrels for the two actions .

I've got my eyes open for an A-5 20 MAG . Hastings of course doesn't make a rifled 20 gauge barrel but so be it .

Incidently the 71 12 MAG I've had a couple weeks , bought it mainly for the 32" full choke barrel . Shot it twice to make sure it functioned okay and then I went to a turkey shoot last Friday . Shot 12 rounds and was in the money 3 times . I hadn't been to a turkey shoot in 25 years .

W.R.Buchanan

11-28-2018, 02:32 PM

Still working to get the bolt to stay open after last shot or when manually cycled.

Good videos on working the A5 at www.artsgunshop.com. This guy and his 3 sons are the A5 gurus !!!

As soon as I get this problem fixed I'll start shooting slugs thru both barrels. Pretty excited about this, as is everyone else here right now.

There is a good variety of projectiles to try out and some look really promising.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

11-29-2018, 01:55 PM

Well I thought I had it beat yesterday but Murphy won out again.

The problem with this gun has been the bolt not staying open after the last shot or when the gun is empty.

After talking to Art's son Brad I changed out the Carrier Latch and Viola,,, the bolt stayed open!

Except now the Carrier is up and won't go down without pushing the button which drops the bolt. I almost lost a finger to that little error in judgement.

What has to happen is the new Carrier Latch has to be tweaked so it works right . I can't do this as I have no idea how much or how it needs to be tweaked.

Gun going to Arts Gun Shop in MO today.

I know my limitations. Punt!

Randy

Gone! Be back in a couple of weeks.

W.R.Buchanan

12-08-2018, 08:13 PM

OK guys: Since I am waiting for my gun to reappear I decided I would load some of my new STI Slugs.

I went down the roll crimping rat hole today and reloaded 5 once fired Federal Slug Hulls that were previously Roll Crimped. I did one Fiocchi hull last night but it kind of sucked so I used some Feds I had collected for today's excursion.

I used the BPI 12 ga. Roll Crimper that I have had sitting in the box for several years now. I did the set up on my Milling machine simply because I could control the speed down to a Gnats ****. I started at 150 RPM's and it worked good so I left it there.

I did the first operations of the loading on my Pacific DL266. That was depriming/sizing, re-priming and dropping powder., then to seat the STI Slug/Sabot combo I used a wad guide ( A MEC I think)I had in my Lee Loader Kit with my little Sinclair Arbor Press to shove the whole mess thru the mouth of the hull. No way was it going in without a wad guide. I had to use a .40 S&W case as a spacer to get the slug past the the fingers on the wad guide.

Then back to the press to seat the wad and apply 40-50 lbs of pressure on it.

Then over to the mill for the Roll Crimp.

Once I figured out how to hold onto the hull and lining it up with the crimp tool, I just started the spindle and started running it down. The stop was high so I keep lowering it until the crimp looked complete.

I went back to the first one on the left and gave it a little more after I was done with the other 4 all ended up at 2-5/16" +/-.01-.15. They all have a decent taper on them so they should feed smoothly in the A5.

One thing I did that just seemed appropriate was to wipe some Vaseline on the inside of the crimp tool. It worked and whereas the first one didn't look perfect the other 4 did and I am reasonably happy with the outcome. But since I have no idea what I am doing I will defer to you's guys for constructive criticism.

See pics below.

So what do you think?

Randy

Cap'n Morgan

12-09-2018, 05:04 AM

Randy

It looks as if you are using a roll crimper with straight pins. While this is an easy way to make a crimper, the pins will have a tendency to flatten the top of finished crimp. A good roll crimper will have the profile you see in the picture on the right. This is more difficult to produce as the profile must have raised points along the profile (at least three to balance the process) to help start the edge of the hull rolling.

The MEC "Slugger" crimp dies are injection molded in glass-filled plastic. This makes it easy to produce a smooth radius in the critical area and this is no doubt why they works so well.

https://i.imgur.com/VVPV0dm.jpg

W.R.Buchanan

12-18-2018, 08:36 PM

OK I got the A5 back today and was disappointed that you can't get the carrier to move out of the way unless you hold the carrier release button down. Apparently this is the way JMB designed it. Which IMHO sucks.

My gun is an older 1950 model gun and it has the one piece carrier. Luckily it will accept later 2 piece carrier (Speed Feed model)which will allow it to be loaded without pushing the button. So I have to find one. Anyone have a 2 piece A5 Carrier for a 12 ga? I have some cosmetic work to do on the gun including some wood refinish, re-cutting the checkering, Different Front Sights for both barrels, and I am going to try to mod the carrier so it works right. Also mods to the bolt handle and bolt release button to make them bigger.

The pics below have the Hastings Rifled barrel mounted but the Smoothbore Slug Barrel looks the same.

I also got a Lee 1 oz slug mould which for some unknown reason seems to make perfect slugs that weigh 440.1 gr after about 10 pours, when the Lyman mould makes a good one about every 5 pours. The good ones I made with that mould weigh .441 gr?

I hear so much BS on the inter web about how Lee Tools are ***'s and yet it's funny that I have never had a Lee Mould that didn't work right from the first one I bought in 1978 which I still have. I have had several Lyman Moulds that didn't work including the Foster Slug Mould and a 173 gr .357 SWC mould that never dropped even one good boolit. It is long gone and I apologize to the person who bought it.

Anyway I made 90 or so good ones to load up as soon as my Hull Trimmer shows up. These will be my practice rounds and loaded light.

Randy

longbow

12-18-2018, 11:38 PM

Both my Lee slug moulds have worked well for me. The 1 oz. is old style and the 7/8 oz. is new style. The 1 oz. needed a very minor deburring when I got it then it cast perfectly and slugs drop out. The 7/8 oz. requires a tap or two on the hinge pin but nothing out of the ordinary. Both make nice slugs. No complaints.

It'll be interesting to see how you do with those in the rifled gun.

Seems to me you said you have the Federal wads with quite tapered petals? If so they should be good for the Lee slugs which do have some taper to them. Mine taper from about 0.685" at the nose to 0.667" (IIRC) at the tail but considerable taper.

Longbow

W.R.Buchanan

12-18-2018, 11:58 PM

No Federals just Claybuster WAA12 clones and the Claybuster Blue slug wads. The Lee Slugs don't really fit into the WAA12 clones without something to shim them up and then they are .740 at the mouth of the was which is a little big.

They fit well in the blue wads but again will need to be shimmed up. I have over shot cards coming which should fix that problem.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

12-26-2018, 08:49 PM

Very close to having the A5 fully operational. Found a old style Carrier Latch that I needed on Ebay yesterday and snagged it and another Old style (Square Threads)Mag Tube End Cap that I can make into an extended mag tube.

The only real source for parts for older A5's is now Ebay where guys part them out. Browning stopped supporting all A5's about a month or so ago and sold all their parts to some outfit in St Louis.

But I got a workable Carrier Latch which I can use as a template to mod the new one I put in the gun.

It annoys me when outfits get too caught up in the bean counter mentality, and especially when they stop supporting a Flagship Model like the A5 which was JMB's crowning achievement. With proper parts support those guns would still be running 100 years from now and I'm sure many will anyway unless this country goes to pot and the left takes over and disarms us. Which is exactly what they want to do every day. When it happens (and it probably will eventually) the country falls. I personally vote for Civil War before they win.

centershot

12-27-2018, 10:29 AM

Drm50

12-27-2018, 12:37 PM

My family are A5 people from way back and it just so happens Im from Ohio where we had to shoot
slugs for deer until just a few years ago. I have 3 12g A5s and my brother is heavy into them he has
several in 20, 16 and 12g. I made my slug gun out of a Light 12 that had barrel damage. My rear sight is off a Rem 700, the old model sight that has the leaf and riser. The steel in these is easier to
silver solder than the newer ones of cast metal. My front is Williams Shorty Ramp with Marbel Patridge blade. My barrel is just under 24" and it shoots 3" at 100yds consistently, off bench. My Bro
has Jap A5 slug gun with scope and his does the same. I have built Slug guns out of every model gun you can think of and 3" is about the best I have gotten. I'm not familiar with the games but is a
rifled barrel really a plus for the ranges shot? The rifled barrels are more accurate and excel at over
100yds. I fooled with rifled barrels and ended up sticking with my smooth bores but mine was for deer hunting purposes and my shots are 100yd or less in cover I hunt.

W.R.Buchanan

12-27-2018, 01:45 PM

DRM50: I have both a Browning Smoothbore Slug barrel and a Hastings Rifled barrel for the gun.

For the 3 Gun Shoots and trips to Front Sight I'll use the Smoothbore as the ranges are <50 yards. For Hunting I'd use the Rifled Barrel just cuz.

I really want someone over here in the US to come up with a Driven Boar Hunt so I have an excuse to use the Rifled Barrel on moving targets with slugs. I already have a mount designed for a small Red Dot sight that takes the place of the elevator in the rear sight. "American Wild Boar Fever!"

Both the barrels have the standard Browning Rifle sights and I have put a Green Fiber Optic front sight on the smoothbore. I haven't been able to move the front sight on the Hastings barrel and have to make a pusher to get it out then it will get one too.

This gun has been not been shot that much, but appears to have been carried alot. I have some wood work to do to it to bring it back to it's full glory, but I can already see that the gun will look nice when done. Its got the nice old style dark wood.

Luckily I don't have to refinish the wood to shoot it.

Coming soon.

Randy

NyFirefighter357

12-27-2018, 10:07 PM

My smooth bores shoot 3" groups @ 100yrds all day. I went to rifled shotguns not only to shoot more accurately but to extend my shooting distance and to have a much flatter trajectory. My rifled shotguns are sighted in with sabots with a Nikon BDC reticle to 200yrds. They are both 12ga but if I did much hunting anymore I'd like to get the Savage 220 20ga rifled slug gun or a rifled barrel for one of my 12ga 1100.

longbow

12-28-2018, 12:13 PM

What smoothbore gun and load is giving you 3" groups at 100 yards? Is this with home cast and loaded slugs or factory slug loads?

I wouldn't bother with a rifled gun if I could get dependable groups under 6" at 100 yards with home cast and loaded slugs. If I could get 3" to 4" groups i'd be ecstatic!

Best I've managed so far is a little under 6" groups at 100 yards with factory Foster slugs and 6" + with home loaded AQ slugs. I have shot some nice small groups at times but certainly not consistently or dependably.

Longbow

W.R.Buchanan

12-28-2018, 04:01 PM

The Smoothbore Browning Barrels are supposed to shoot really well. 3"? I don't know but I will find out soon. Waiting for one part to come and then I'll go shoot it.

Also I'll be shooting with iron sights so we'll have to take that into consideration as well. The smooth bore barrel did come with a B-Square Saddle Mount and a 3-9 Tasco scope, but that would be a receiver mount and there's no guarantee that it will re-align with the barrel every time the barrel cycles. Remember on an A5 the entire barrel moves strait back about 3" and then back forward to go back in battery every time the gun cycles. Lots of movement there.

You'll also notice that most shotgun barrels meant to be used with a scope have a Cantilever Scope Mount. No such thing for an A5.

I'll probably put the gun in a vise and put an indicator on the end of the barrel and flex it back and forth and see how much it flexes and if it repeats it's "in battery" position.

Mounting my Burris Fast Fire 3 onto a little piece of Pic Rail on top of a block replacing the rear sight block won't be affected by this movement The sight has survived about 500 rounds on top of my G35 so I think the slower movement of the shotgun barrel shouldn't bother it much, if at all.

More to come.

Randy

bikerbeans

12-29-2018, 12:55 AM

longbow

12-29-2018, 12:51 PM

Randy:

A bit off topic except for semi auto 12 ga. shotgun...

I used to have a Winchester model 50 someone had cut down and put rifle sights on. This was in the 70's. It was an interesting action. The chamber floated and recoiled back part way with the bolt before they separated and the hull and bolt continued to eject and feed another round. The floating chamber looked kinda like a large bottleneck cartridge. As I recall it functioned quite well and that extra mass must have helped absorb recoil. I'm guessing same principle as the A5 with recoiling barrel... and maybe competition?

I sold it because it was fairly old at the time and had not been taken care of. The outside of the chamber was badly corroded and no spares around where I lived.

I don't recall having any failures to eject or feed and only shot handloads assembled with an old Lee Loader.

How is the A5 for handling varying power handloads?

Looking forward to your smoothbore testing... and rifled barrel testing. I'm sure we'll get a thorough field report or two.

Longbow

W.R.Buchanan

12-29-2018, 01:38 PM

The A5 action deals with recoil of various loads (Low or High) by the way you set up the "Friction Ring" on the magazine in front of the recoil spring.

There is 2 pieces you have to set up right. A Bronze Friction Ring, and a Steel Friction Sleeve. There is a tapered edge on the front end of the Bronze Friction Ring and there is a corresponding taper cut into the barrel band as the barrel moves back under recoil the tapers close the bronze ring and increases the friction thus mitigating recoil.

For Low Power Loads the steel friction ring is placed on the receiver end of the recoil spring with its flat side against the recoil spring.

For High Power Loads the steel ring which has a taper on one side is placed behind the Bronze Ring in front of the Recoil Spring.

During the harsher recoil of high power loads both the barrels taper and the steel friction ring's tapers work against the bronze ring and close it down harder thus increasing friction and mitigating recoil even further.

I have no idea how JMB came up with this system but it has been working great for the last 120 years.

The whole gun is a marvel of engineering and there is so much stuff going on inside that receiver it amazes me.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

01-01-2019, 08:02 PM

OK I have reached my limit with this gun. It will not run in a manner that makes it viable for 3 gun shooting.

In order to load the magazine you must push the bolt release button and that allows the carrier to move up. The only way to do this is to turn the gun over and press the bolt release button with your left thumb while trying to insert a shell into the mag. As soon as you release the round in the mag, the carrier pops back up and you must depress the button again to insert another round. The carrier will not stay down out of the way and you can't just depress the carrier with the shell like you can with every other gun in creation. You must push the button.

Obviously there is no way to load this gun tactically or even in an expeditious manner. You can't do a Select Slug changeover in a speedy manner.

IE: The gun has Buckshot in the chamber and the mag but the mag is not completely full. A longer shot presents itself and the normal mode of operation would be to quickly shove a slug into the mag and then rack the slide or bolt wasting the chambered round and bringing up the slug. The manipulation to do this with this gun would not make the time limits. Just too much futsing around to make it happen.

Also in the scenario where you have fired several rounds and need to top off the mag, you would normally do this by bringing rounds from your shell carrier to the underside of the gun with your left hand and shoving them in with the gun at the high ready. Can't do that with this gun. You have to turn it over to load it. period. This was fixed with the newer guns with the two piece carrier however along with the two piece carrier you get the Speed Feed function which feeds the first round you shove into the magazine right into the chamber and closes the bolt automatically, then you can load the gun properly without having to diddle with the carrier latch button. I can't for the life of me understand why JMB designed this gun like this. It went 50+ years before they fixed this problem.

I managed to ruin one carrier latch and I thought I almost had it as I could get the carrier to push the latch out of the way but then it wouldn't hold the bolt open. #$%&)!#@ or in fact you get one or the other you don't get both with a one piece carrier.

The solution is to install a later 2 piece carrier in which case you can load the gun correctly however there is more to it than just dropping the part in. It requires "Fitting" which is the most abused word in gunsmithing as it implies hidden knowledge that can only be gleaned from divine sources. IE: If you don't know exactly how to fit it, you're screwed.

I could put the new barrels on my nice A5 and be done with it however I am not going to subject a 99.9% gun to the rigors of 3 gun, so I'll probably just sell this one and find a later model gun and use it. It is fully operational now and holds the bolt back after the last round, so it is good to go and with a little more clean up it will easily bring $600+.

Grr,,, Life goes on ! Not the result I was looking for. But now I have two really nice slug barrels [smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

01-02-2019, 06:19 PM

OK put out feelers for another A5 today, and found one immediately however it was older than the one I have but in nicer shape. Still a no go even though the price was right, as it had the one piece carrier.

I need a mid to late 60's A5 SN 4G 72750 or higher. Cosmetic condition not important as long as it is not too bad. Needs to have the two piece carrier which is easily shown by your ability to depress it without having to press the Bolt Release Button. You have to depress the button to load a single piece carrier gun.

If you've got something you want to get rid of for a Very Reasonable price PM me.

Not interested in your high dollar family heirloom.

I've already got a beautiful one and it ain't going' to the competitions. It is my Family's Heirloom!

This gun will be going to 3 gun comps and needs to run but not necessarily be beautiful.

Randy

tomme boy

01-04-2019, 01:23 AM

How are the Remington versions?

W.R.Buchanan

01-04-2019, 04:31 AM

I've seen several A5's in the last couple of days, but no Rem 11's. In fact the only Rem 11's I have ever seen were ex military ones with very high price tags.

I put in an offer on a later A5 today, he wanted $895 and I offered $695. The gun has mismatched wood and was from Japan which by itself is not a big deal to me. They are as good or better than the Belgian ones but usually don't look as nice.

My good gun is absolutely beautiful in the sun.

Anyway I'm sure something will turn up soon as I have 4 shops looking for me.

I put mine up for sale today at $675 and it looked good after I spent and hour cleaning and touching up everything.

Also put up a couple of other guns along with it so I'll have money to buy the new A5.

Randy

Hogtamer

01-04-2019, 02:00 PM

with open bolt just feed shell into mag and it slams into chamber. lever on left of gun needs to be forward . how does it get any faster than that?

W.R.Buchanan

01-04-2019, 02:14 PM

HT that only works on newer guns with the two piece carrier. My older gun has the One Piece carrier and you have to push the bolt release button to get the Carrier Latch out of the way to push the Carrier down to load the mag. It doesn't self feed after that. Also you can't load the magazine with the bolt open for the same reason. AS soon as you press the bolt release to free the carrier the bolt drops and there is no round present to get fed.

The two piece carrier with the "Speed Feed" feature came about around 1960-62. My 1964 vintage gun has it. The 1950 gun I am selling doesn't have it.

The easiest way to tell if your gun has the two piece carrier is to simply push on it. If it goes up then it is a two piece carrier, if it doesn't go up its a 1 piece carrier.

One works right for my use, the other doesn't.

That's the big difference here.

Randy

tomme boy

01-04-2019, 07:41 PM

I see Remingtons here at auctions go for $100 fairly regularly. In fact one of my uncles has a couple of them he uses for deer hunting. It is a plain barrel bead sight. They both are completely silver no blue left at all. They both work great yet. I always thought they were not worth anything????

6pt-sika

01-05-2019, 07:52 PM

Now that the killing seasons over I wanna take my Hastings A-5 Mag fully rifled barrel to the range . I have a bunch of Remington 2 3/4” AccuTip slugs left over from the Savage 210 I no longer own as well as some Federal 3” with the Barnes Expander slug . Earlier this week we were cleaning up at the shop and discovered a box with WIN BRI sabot slugs 2 3/4” as well as 3” so I bought them all an added them to my accumulation of junk to shoot in the rifled gun .

W.R.Buchanan

01-06-2019, 05:02 PM

6pt: Do be careful with the high base slugs, they will knock the snot out of you and make sure the recoil spring on the gun is set for heavy loads. I know you know all this, but others might not. It just beats an A5 to death if the recoil spring isn't set right.

Randy.

W.R.Buchanan

01-06-2019, 05:11 PM

I got a Thug Slug 'Kit' from BPI with 25 ea 1 1/8oz Thug Slugs with 25 ea primed Rio hulls. All you have to do is put powder in and slide the slug in and then crimp it. $21 25 ea.

Kind of pointless to load these up light. But I will try some just cuz.

It is also pointless to shoot these slugs at a paper target other than to sight them in. They are designed to be heavy duty hunting slugs, so I will load them, shoot some to figure trajectory, and keep the rest for my impending Wild Boar Safari to Europe.

Everything most of us need or want to do with slugs can be done with Trap Loads with slugs or buck substituted for the payload. All of our cast round balls and Lyman Sabot slugs and Lee slugs will do fine for the vast majority of our shooting needs. Keep the heavy duty stuff for when it is needed.

You never know when you are going to have to shoot a pick up truck or something.

Oh and here's another little tidbit for those who haven't figured it out yet, virtually all of the good shotgun loading stuff comes from Italy. They make some of the best Shotguns so it would follow that they would make ammo too. They probably aren't allowed to have rifles so everyone is into shotguns. Any movie you see that is based in Italy everyone is carrying shotguns. no rifles.

Including, DGS slugs, Thug Slugs, Thunderbolts, Gualbos, all the plug in wads etc. (IE: most of the stuff that BPI sells.) The Russians knocked off the Italians on lots of this stuff. The Germans contributed Brenneke Slugs, We contributed Lyman Sabot Slugs, Lee slugs and Foster slugs.

I think everyone has done buckshot of one type or another.

I also got a newer A5 lined up and if the guy goes for my offer It will be a wash with the older one I'm selling.

All this is still up in the air but we are getting closer to having a rifled barrel gun.

Randy

longbow

01-06-2019, 07:05 PM

Again, looking forward to range results. If those work well for you I may buy some to try. I have to be able to clone something! On that note I am mostly done on my 0.672" wad punch (16 ga. size) for Brenneke'ized Lee slugs.

One day something will work well!

longbow

6pt-sika

01-07-2019, 10:57 AM

W.R.Buchanan

01-09-2019, 04:22 AM

OK I had something very unexpected happen today. My Paradox Slug Mould from Russia that I bought on New Years Day showed up! That's less than one week from Russia. I wasn't expecting it until the end of the month.

It was mailed in a soft package and the box with the mould was a little beat up but everything inside was OK.

This mould has three mould pins and will drop a heavy slug a light slug with a hole thru the nose so you can screw on a wad or gas seal, and hollow base slug for the plug in wads.

Still trying to get the guy with the newer A5 which turns out to be first year Japanese production to turn loose of it. I put the old one up for sale last Friday.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

01-09-2019, 05:55 PM

OK got the newer A5 today, although it is "in jail" for the next 10 days, as we say here in CA. It is a 1975 "first year" Japanese A5 with a 31.5" Belgian Barrel which I should be able to get $200 for on Ebay.

So we move forward again on this project. All you have to do is spend money.

Randy

6pt-sika

01-09-2019, 07:29 PM

I wanna get my hands on one of the older Browning take down hard cases for the A-5 with two barrels like you have pictured above . I have a couple of them for my Superposed guns but none for the A-5 , SO FAR !

W.R.Buchanan

01-10-2019, 04:23 AM

6Pt; I just got a new A5 hard case for two barrels for $150 ish and that was a really good deal. The outfit was asking $200 but Ebay had a 25% off day so I grabbed it. Model 1115 for the A5s or BPS's

Since I don't have the new gun yet the Ithaca 37 is living in it for the time being, and it might just stay there as it is nicer than the A5 I bought today..

That case my nice gun lives in has had that gun in it since 1965 when my Uncle bought it. He got the Light 12, modified and full choked vent ribbed barrels and the case all in one package, and that gun has lived in that case for 54 years! Still has the owners manual.

I have several gun safes, but I prefer to keep my really nice guns in hard cases. I have some large desiccate packs in those cases so I don't worry about rusting or anything like that. The biggest problem with safes and nice guns is safe rash from getting the gun in and out of the safe. That's where the majority of dings happen.

My nice guns go to the shoot in the case, get assembled, shot, wiped down, bore snaked and back in the case, then back in the gun closet in the house. That way stuff stays looking new for along time.

Randy

6pt-sika

01-10-2019, 02:03 PM

W.R.Buchanan

01-10-2019, 02:12 PM

You probably will have more access to that type of case where you live or off Ebay. I very seldom see a nice hard gun case out here unless it has a high dollar shotgun in it.

Most of the hard cases we see now are cheap plastic ones like the Beretta's come in. Nice hard cases have turned into hand built masterpieces like Dewey's.

That new Browning Case I just got is not nearly as nice as the old one with my A5 in it. It was made in Costa Rica?

It is nice but doesn't have all the features the old case has like little pockets for accessories like chokes and such.

It is adjustable for barrel length and gun length.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

01-10-2019, 08:46 PM

Fired up the lead pot and made my first Russian Paradox Slugs today. The mould worked just like any other mould and started producing good slugs about 10-15 pours into it.

The mould came with 3 different rear cavity pins. A small tapered one which will no doubt yield the heaviest slugs, a pin that generates an hour glassed shaped rear cavity which also puts a hole in the nose of the slug. This one is designed to have the wad or gas seal screwed onto the back of the slug. I started out with this one and it dropped slugs right at 525 gr +/-.5 gr. .724-.725 in dia. I will powder coat them to get some more dia. Can't run this one thru a choke, Rifled Barrel or Cylinder Bore only..

The third mould pin generates a rear cavity designed to be used with the Italian Plug in wads, which I am still looking for a source for.

I can't see anything living thru a hit by one of these slugs, but then again I can't see any thing living thru a hit by any of the slugs I've got. They do look like they should fly strait.

Won't know about accuracy until I get back from SHOT as my new gun comes out of jail the day I leave.

Randy

longbow

01-10-2019, 08:53 PM

What is the as cast diameter Randy?

The slugs KrackenFan69 sent me were a bit small at about 0.727". I knurled some up to 0.735" then sized down to 0.733" to suit my fat bored single shot but have not shot them yet. The Slugster has a 0.729" bore so they may do okay from it but accuracy from my single shot was mediocre. Not bad, just not great. I had higher hopes... but they are undersize so in fairness they should be re-tested at close to bore fit so that is coming up shortly I hope.

We've just had a couple of big snow dumps though so range access may be iffy for a bit.

They are a nice looking slug and same (or looks the same) tail wad as Gualandi uses.

Longbow

W.R.Buchanan

01-10-2019, 09:42 PM

.724-.725 and PC will add another .004-5 so they will work in a .730 bore. Also the attached wads/gas seals will bite in the bore as well.

These are big chunks of lead. er Wheel Weights.

Randy

Ginsing

01-11-2019, 01:38 AM

Randy:
The source for the wads is the same company that makes your slug mold.

W.R.Buchanan

01-11-2019, 04:28 AM

I haven't been able to find the wads on their website. I clicked on every single Icon and nothing about wads anywhere?

Maybe I have the wrong web address? I clicked on the one form another post.

Randy

Ginsing

01-11-2019, 10:26 AM

They operate a bit different over there. Go to the buy section on that website and send the retail address an email. Just inquire about pricing and they will email you a complete price list.
Then send him an email what you want and request a total price with shipping. If you say yes to his price he will send you an invoice.
It is a bit different but it works and all happens quickly.

Hogtamer

01-11-2019, 05:50 PM

Randy,
This may not interest you in the least, but in your run and gun sport it's worth a minute to read. This gun was a commercial flop because when it was introduced most semi-auto shotgunners were die hard A-5 or Rem 1100 shooters. I was an A-5 guy but I bought my first Browning 2000 in 1978. It's gas operated semi-auto, Belgian made, assembled in Portugal. Unbelievably easy to dissasemble
(yes, it's a Browning) with the loading port on the left side. Whoa you think! The most perfectly balanced gun you'll ever pick up and the quickest to load with a little practice (assuming you are right handed). Here are pics:
233719
For starters, with bolt open slide shell into loading port and it slams into chamber ready to fire. Your shell pouch is on your left side and it's pretty easy to grab 3 shells at once. 2 more quickly into the mag with your left hand. Your right hand never comes off the grip. (It will hold 4 - 2 3/4" in the mag but the plug is only removable after removing the trigger assembly.) Any receiver will accept 3" shells but the barrel must be chambered for 3"' and not all are. The magazine will then only hold
3 shells. The 3" barrels have 2 gas ports on the bottom of the barrel at the attachment ring, the 2 3/4" barrels have only one port....maybe I got that backwards, but the barrels are clearly marked nontheless. Recoil is greatly reduced, of course, by the gas mechanism. So besides the hard marketing challenge against the popular A-5 and the loading port on the "wrong" side, the 2000 never found a niche to speak of - except by folks who used them! They developed a reputation for unreliability because folks didn't read the owners manual, imagine that! Most hunters like me picked up a gun and went to the field, bang bang bang. The guns came with a liberal coat of cosmoline or whatever they used then to protect the gun and it had to be thoroughly cleaned first. Plus the magazine tube runs dry! Unlike oiling the springs and mag tube on an A-5. When a ftf occurred most people took out the gas piston assembly, oiled that and put the piston in backwards!
OK! Looong post I know. After I shot doves with mine for a season I went back to the gun shop and bought the six he had in inventory for $200 bucks a piece. That was about half price. Kept one and my buddies bought the other 4. Bought one from a guy a couple of years ago whose Daddy said his never would shoot and it had been in the closet 30 years. Gave him $175 and yep, petrified packing grease and the gas piston in backwards. The only fault with them is a thin forearm that when it got wet several times would swell and loosen. The small metal supports in the breech end of the forarm would fall out or get lost in assembly after cleaning and the forearm would have some side to side play. Still shoots fine but could be annoying. The braces are still available and the problem solved with wetting the wood and holding with string until reset. Beautiful wood by the way. I do believe it worth your while to go out of your way to handle one if you could. They did make some sighted smoothbore slug barrels too. Well, if you're not asleep yet I'm about to be....whew!
PS.....one pin removable trigger assembly
233726
The doves weren't flying yet last year when I took this pic. Yep, still loading my all time favorite Activ hull, just got a new supply yesterday from a terrific guy on the site.

W.R.Buchanan

01-11-2019, 07:35 PM

HT: I'm always interested to hear what other interested parties have to say about anything that is pertinent. Have no problem Hijacking other peoples threads and don't really care if it happens to me unless the guy is an A hole and just wants to bash. I'm a "anything to keep the conversation going," kind of guy.

As far as B2000's go I almost bought one back in the day, but my uncle promised me his A5, so I just held out for it.

They were nice shotguns and I think they were better than the A 500 they have now, which I haven't heard anything good about..

As you know the later A5's with the 2 Piece Carrier and Speed Feed feature load instantly from the empty magazine as well. But the real kicker for me is that I already have two A5 slug barrels and I don't think they ever made such a thing for the B2000.

There are so many good shotguns out there that it is hard to decide what to buy.

I was looking pretty hard at one of the little Franchi 20 ga Autoloaders the other day. I consider those guns to be among the best dove guns ever made and at 5 lbs they certain wouldn't wear you out toting it around all day. I went to put it back on the rack, as it was not exactly perfect, and someone else practically snatched it out of my hands and bought it on the spot.

So many guns, so little time.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

01-18-2019, 11:39 PM

OK some more developments on this story. I was able to win an auction for a New Browning Motor Case for an O/U shotgun I paid $109 for it! and since it was located in Irvine CA, I received it the day after it was shipped. I got here yesterday and it is prefect. All for $109!!!!!!!

Well the only problem with the case is neither of my O/U's fit into it very well?

However with a bit of re-configuring of the innards my Ithaca fit perfectly and it now has a new home. Plenty of room for all the choke tubes for the Cutts and extra stuff. Good setup.

Cat will not fit in this case, and believe me he tried.

The case before this has the A5 Slug barrels living there and will have the Rest of the gun as soon as I pick it up after SHOT. 10 day wait over on Sunday 1/20 after I leave for Las Vegas.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

01-18-2019, 11:55 PM

On another note: I received some more shot shell loading components today from BPI. I also corresponded with Luca Roca of Gualandi in Italy who is the guy I met at the SHOT Show a few years ago. He gave me 5 of the Thunderbolt Slugs that BPI sells at the time, and actually remembered me!

A goodly portion of the wads and slugs that BPI sells come from this outfit. I struck out trying to buy the plug in wads for the Russian Slugs with them, but Petander put me onto the right place for the website of the Svarog outfit that makes the moulds. I was able to buy 250 of those wads and will be loading them up after I get back from SHOT.

So I will have the A5 I need, along with a Smooth Bore Slug Barrel and a Hastings Rifled Barrel to test all these new slugs and other stuff to shoot out of shotguns. I can also test with both the M500's, the Tac Gun with 20" Vang Comped barrel and the 18" HD gun with a cylinder bored barrel.

Lots to do coming up.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

01-26-2019, 02:58 PM

OK This just keeps getting better and better.

I got home from SHOT on Thursday nite and went to pick up my new gun Friday. Got it home and I had to use a strap wrench to get the mag cap off. Something weird here ? It has a little friction ring instead of the larger one with the steel ring around it? Called Art's gun shop and Nick told me that how the Magnum guns are set up.

Have I told you guys yet that I am actually an IDIOT!!! Well if not, here it is,,, I am an idiot!!!. The gun bought is a 3" Magnum gun! I completely missed this when I looked at it about 5 different times!

The reason it has a Belgian 32" barrel is because it is "first year Japanese production" and they were still using up parts from Belgium.

Neither of my slug barrels will work in the gun, which was kind of a major slap in the face.

Luckily I can sell it for more than I paid, so I won't get hurt $$$, but the ignominy of this is,,,

I just wiped out all my Attaboys and am starting over from scratch!

This was a major Awship!

So, life goes on and the quest for a proper gun continues. In the mean time, I decided to get my good A5 out and use it for testing of my slug and buckshot loads already put together. I can use it in a controlled environment for testing so it doesn't get scratched up, and keep looking for one I can use for 3 gun.

It is nice here for this week and the road to the range is open (had been closed due to several mudslides) so I can get out and shoot something.

Randy

stubshaft

01-26-2019, 04:37 PM

Don't feel too bad. Years ago I bought a 1941 "American" Browning A-5...The only "Browning" made in America by Remington...

W.R.Buchanan

01-26-2019, 05:39 PM

Yes, during the War Browning A5s were made by Remington here in the US. They already had the tooling as they had been the first to produce the gun as the Rem Model 11

Something about that Nazi Occupation of Belgium having a negative effect on European Production.

But the Germans did get to experience the effects of other Browning Products,,, we didn't want them to feel left out.

I thought that was very Inclusive on our part.

Randy.

W.R.Buchanan

02-02-2019, 08:19 PM

OK I have managed to trade the Magnum A5 for a Light 12 A5 with a two piece carrier. Basically one year older than my good A5. 1963 model.

So now I have to go thru the whole registration process and wait again. Getting closer to having a working system. I think.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

02-02-2019, 10:23 PM

On another Note: My plug in wads for the Svarog slugs arrived from Mother Russia today.

Have to cast some slugs for them tomorrow. I can use the excess heat generated by the pot for warmth.

It got all the way down to 50 F today here in CA while it was raining like hell. I was layered up big time.

Here's a pic of the wads.

Randy

centershot

02-06-2019, 06:16 PM

50 *F??!! Yeah, I wish! I live 50 miles south of Buffalo!

W.R.Buchanan

02-11-2019, 06:55 PM

Gun came in today and whereas it is not cosmetically wonderful, it will work for what I want to do, and it will clean up to my desired level of finish. I installed both my Slug Barrels on it and ran dummy rounds thru it and it runs fine, so with some clean up and installation of a Recoil Pad and some Sling Swivels it will be good to go.

This gun is a 1963 Model Belgian Made A5. 1963 was the first year for the 2 piece Cartridge Lifter, and "Speed Feed" Feature. This feature allows loading the gun without having to push the bolt release button to clear the lifter. IE: it now loads like every other gun made. Except with the Bolt Open IE; Empty Magazine, you can either stuff a round into the magazine, whereupon it automatically feeds said round into the chamber and closes the bolt,,, gun ready to fire. Or you can Port Load the first round. Then subsequent rounds are stuffed into the magazine to bring the gun to full readiness at 4+1. I would like to add another 2-3 rounds with an extended mag tube but will probably have to make that myself.

So in 10 days I will be allowed to actually take the gun home and start working on it. Not much to do to start testing slug accuracy just need the Recoil Pad installed, and I will do that too.

Hopefully the weather will improve by then and our range will get reopened.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

02-12-2019, 06:07 PM

Finally got some perfect slugs out of the Russian Mould.

End result was Dielectric grease on the sprue plate. 800F with some tin added.

The Big Slug pin IE; 625 gr I had no problem with and the boolits dropped off the pin directly into the egg crate.

The Plug in Wad Pin ran at the same temp and took some cooling and wiggling to get it to release but I got 5 perfect slugs in a row, before I had to go. Shut everything down and all I have to do is plug the pot back in and come to temp and start casting.

I see this one and the big one as being the primaries with this mould, but who know's, the Screw on Wads may prove good too.

At any rate if any of these fly strait they will be the primary Hunting Slugs for the A5.

I still have STI slugs, Lyman Sabot Slugs, Lee 1oz slugs and Pumpkin Balls, some 1 1/8 oz Thug Slugs and some AQ slugs to try.

We are going to figure this out, and I have three guns to shoot everything thru to check viability of each slug type in each type of barrel.

We now know how to Roll Crimp better than most, we have all the best slugs in the world. We all have guns made for this.

By the time we're done we should actually be experts in the field.

Nothing is safe!

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

02-21-2019, 10:38 PM

OK I got the new A5 out of jail today and brought it home and took "before"pics of it, and was going to post them except my computer lost it's picture destination default and I ended up deleting the pics on the card before my wife figured out how to get the correct default setting back.

Now the gun is apart for refinishing. My Pachmayer Recoil Pad I ordered for this project is way too big and I have to get another. So that will be a few days, and my Range is still closed indefinitely due to Mud Slides on the road to it. Cal Trans says a week to a month to get it cleaned up.

I have to shorten the stock in order to get something close to right for me with the pad installed. The gun has the original Hard Rubber butt plate on it and the LOP is 14 5/8" ! I need it to be 13 3/4" with the pad installed so there will be a big chunk cut off the stock. The Stock is nice wood with some real nice grain structure and will look nice after I get all the varnish off it and refinish it.

The metal on the receiver is all good and the engraving is sharp so it will blue up well.

You'll have to wait to see the gun until I get it refinished. But I assure you it will look nice and run great.

This project has been about a "Long Winded" quest, but it is coming together.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

02-24-2019, 03:32 PM

Paint stripping is going well. Took nearly 1/8" of Varnish off the buttstock yesterday and will do the fore end today. It has about the same amount on it.

Had to get a different recoil pad which should be here by Tuesday as Midway actually ships stuff quickly. Will be cutting nearly 2" off the buttstock to shorten it a to include the recoil pad. You can see the difference in the color of the for end and stripped stock.

The receiver will blue up nicely with Birchwood Casey cold blue gel that is a new product and works really well. Not buffing it will retain the sharp engraving that was done by hand back in the day.

More coming.

W.R.Buchanan

03-01-2019, 08:45 PM

stocks coming along nicely and attached the recoil pad today still have to grind it to fit properly. Maybe tomorrow.

I stained the wood with Golden Oak Stain and it only darkened the stock a small amount. I also did a bunch of "Grain Enhancement" by putting some sharpie ink on a wet qtip and rubbing it into the grain sideways. There was alot of small nick type openings in the grain structure and filling them with black brought them out big time.

Not sure I'm done with staining yet as now after cutting the stock shorter for the recoil pad I have a new piece of identical wood I can test some ideas out on.

Not much happening with the fore end it is just strait grained French Walnut so it is less likely to split. Lots of stress on the fore end of these guns.

This wood is getting a Minwax Polyurethane Clear Coat when I am satisfied with the color. I have never used this finish on a gun but the guy who did my Ithaca used it and it looks real nice. It is also very water resistant so if I go out into the hunting fields when it is damp it will protect the wood better than an oil finish.

Will have this gun back together by mid week. Still raining here.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

03-03-2019, 06:10 PM

So today while waiting for paint to dry on the wood, I disassembled the receiver as far as I could go. couldn't remove the Carrier Latch and Button and the Mag Cutoff as some earlier Owner / Bubbasmith replaced the long thing screws with @$%^&*# Roll Pins! Since these are in blind holes the only way to get them out is by drilling them out and I didn't feel like doing that today. Maybe someday.

The gun was absolutely filthy inside!,,, and I am being kind here. All cleaned out now. Still have to disassemble the bottom plate and bolt so they can be cleaned up.

I then went ahead and reblued the whole Stripped Receiver. I wire brushed the exterior to remove any little rust spots and then degreased it and applied the Birchwood Casey paste blue which works really well.

Normally when you re-blue a gun you strip off the old blue with a polishing wheel and then dip it in the bluing salts. However one of the byproducts of abrasive buffing is lessening the sharpness of the engraving. My engraving was all hand done in 1963 and it still looks new.

And it still does afterwards. The bluing project came out nice if I do say, and more than good enough for the role this gun will be playing.

here's some pics.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

03-05-2019, 02:31 PM

Wood coming along nicely and will be done today. Grain on the right side popped nicely,left side not so much but still interesting.

This is a working gun so I didn't want to go too ape on the stock finish. I would normally do an oil finish but since this gun is essentially a beater it got a Minwax Polyurethane spray can finish. The stuff is some of the best spray can paint I have ever used and it goes on Nice and Easy. Dried quickly when left in the Heater Closet.

Randy

Petander

03-05-2019, 04:16 PM

Looking good!

I like re-finishing,especially the old "lemon-merenque" -technique.

W.R.Buchanan

03-07-2019, 09:40 PM

Well it is ready to shoot. I still have a few fine details to finish but the gun is back together and should run.

It came out looking pretty good for a beater, and over all I'm pretty happy with the bench top refinish. The bluing came out good and the Wood came out very good,,, IMHO [smilie=b:.

Still have to mount the Sling Swivels and revisit the Recoil Pad fitting that is a little proud in a couple of places.

The gun weighs 7 lbs.8 oz. empty and that Limbsaver Recoil Pad should save me from too much grief with some heavier Slug Loads.

One thing that is annoying is that the little $10 screws that adjust the rear sight in windage tend to fall out and get lost really easily. I just lost another one. Damit.

Update 3/13/19 My wife found the screw! This is the 4th time she has been able to find little bits and pieces that I have lost and spent hours looking for only to have her come in and find it in 15 seconds!

Should be able to shoot this thing this weekend. Bout time!

Randy

centershot

03-07-2019, 10:06 PM

Nice job, Randy! She looks good, I'll be interested to see how that Birchwood Casey cold blue holds up!

W.R.Buchanan

03-07-2019, 10:42 PM

Centershot: as long as you get it on good meaning the surface is free of any kind of oil or grease and keep it oiled or waxed it stays on pretty well.

It works really well for touching up small problems.

On this gun most of the original bluing was still there. There was some light spots here and there, but edges of the receiver, the bottom of the trigger guard, gooned screws which are common on Brownings due to the narrow screw slots, all cleaned up and matched the Factory Bluing well.

When I fix boogered screws I generally tap the blown out slots back down as much as possible, clean up the slot with a needle file and then put them into a drill motor and hit them on the Scotchbite wheel. This leaves the dome of the screw stripped and polished. I then get a hold of them with a pair of Hemostats and dip them into the blue. It takes about 10 seconds to completely coat the screw and then I take it out, rub it with a clean rag, hit it with brake cleaner, and then oil it. Done.

I have done lots of stuff this way and all of it is still in service looking just like before. My big one was the Lever on my 1895CB. The lever on that gun was ALL,,, and nothing but ,,, Sharp Edges!!! I had to file radius's on the loop and the outside of the lever. I then re-blued it with the cold blue and after 13 years it still looks just the same as before,,, but with out the sharp edges.

Not too worried about this gun as it is going to get banged around more than what you'd normally expect a gun like this to experience. That doesn't mean I won't take care of it and try to minimize poor handling, but some dings and dents are to be expected.

I got another bolt handle for the gun, and it will be getting enlarged for easier manipulation. When in a Class or 3 gun you are running the bolt more often and the bolt handle on an A5 is pretty small to begin with. It was designed as a field gun not a fighting gun. Even A5's and Rem 11's that saw Military use had the same small bolt handle and that is because they were not being manipulated like they would be today. Lots of the new training techniques covering Pump and Semi Auto Shotguns didn't exist even 15 years ago. Combat use in the Theater and Competition have produced many new techniques for handling, reloading and firing these guns. Don't think for 1 second that our Military isn't looking at every competition held and learning from it. All branches of the Military have Competitive Shooting Teams and whereas you might think they are doing it just to show off, you'd be wrong. The primary reason for their existence is to learn and innovate new training techniques that can be incorporated into training of the up and coming ranks of New Recruits to make them more Lethal and less likely to become statistics. This is a good thing!!!

If you look at Benelli's, Beretta and Mossberg Semi Auto Combat style guns you'll see larger bolt handles, safeties, bolt releases, shorter LOP's, enhanced Loading Gates, and other refinements that make them easier to manipulate under time pressure or while getting shot at!

Everything that gets "Used," gets modified! Change is inevitable! And "Necessity is the Mother of Invention."

Everybody should know this by now.

Randy

LIMPINGJ

03-07-2019, 11:09 PM

Randy would you give a little more detailed description of how you did the grain enhancement to your stock? I am working on a Stevens 311 stock and it just looks plain.
Thanks

W.R.Buchanan

03-08-2019, 01:31 PM

Limp: In order to enhance grain you first must have some grain to enhance. I did a 311 a couple of years ago and the wood had absolutely no character whatsoever. I stripped it and it was white! I stained it and some of the grain showed up. But not much. I finished it the way it was and promptly sold the gun. Don't expect too much from that wood. It is what it is.

The A5 was a completely different story. It had 1/8" of Varnish on it, and that pretty much covered the grain up. It stripped it with paint remover and sanded it to 400 grit.

As you can see in the pictures the tiger striping showed up well. However there were all sorts of little nick mark type grain inclusions. In fact the tiger stripes were made up of just them.

I used a Qtip that I wet with soapy water and then applied sharpie ink to the tip. I then rubbed it into the grain sideways to darken the low spots and dark places in the grain. It worked better on the right side of the stock than the left. The soapy water helps to dissipate the black so it doesn't just look like you drew the lines in.

I have another gun that a friend did the wood on, and he put one Big Black Line the length of the fore end. He washed it out which feathered the edges of the line, but it is still pretty prominent. After the finish was applied and the checkering done over it it looks like it should be there.

Since I started this project I learned that grain enhancement is nothing new and not peculiar to guns. A trip to your local "Woodcrafters Store" should yield some information on doing this. I have seen some Banisters on a stairway recently that were done with a sharpie! also a couple of picture.

Two years ago I went to the SCI show in Vegas. There was a Westley/Richards Double Rifle there on sale for $165K marked down form $195K! It had wood on the stock that I had never seen anything like. When I showed my friend he showed me where the grain had be enhanced as no tree has ever grown like that. If you look you'll see that there is no real grain in that wood. Just the sharpie lines, and really it is a complete hack job.

The nerve of a Prominent English Gun Maker trying to dump that gun on some unsuspecting buyer who had more money than brains appalls me.

Conversely, the one big black line on my Fore end looks like it should be there.

You'll need to play with this technique as I was literally making it up as I went. Also this is usually a case where less is more and you can always sand it off if you don't like it.

Randy

gpidaho

03-08-2019, 04:11 PM

Very pretty stock. Nice job Randy. Gp

W.R.Buchanan

03-08-2019, 05:59 PM

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the way the gun came out. I mounted the QD Sling Swivel Studs today and then found out I didn't have any QD Swivels to go with them, so I'll have to hunt some down tomorrow.

Then I can get a Sling hung on the thing which will be one more step towards the goal.

I have one little screw to drill out in the rear sight elevator on the Hastings Rifled Barrel, And need to make a mount for the Burris Fast Fire III that will go on that barrel in place of the rear sight.

I want to shoot it first to see if it's even worth messing with. Pretty sure it will be as Browning made some pretty good guns.

Hopefully I'm not completely stupid. Here's a couple of pics of the gun out in the sun.

Randy

tomme boy

03-09-2019, 02:35 AM

That butt stock in post 93 looks like spalted wood. And Yes that is natural wood. It has to be stabilized but it is usually used for knives and pistol scales.

Yours looks like quarter sawed wood. Looks really good!

W.R.Buchanan

03-09-2019, 01:46 PM

You might be right, but the 3 stock re-finishers I have showed this picture to picked out the enhancement immediately. The big black line just below the center line of the stock was what all three pointed out immediately. They said Turkish Walnut is almost never Spalted due to the density, just as the Rosewoods like Cocobolo Iron wood, African Blackwood, etc. never show Spalting.

Who knows?, I know I was impressed until somebody told me what was going on.

I made custom knives back in the mid 80's and worked with all the exotic woods I could find and I've never seen Spalting in any of them. I would have never sold a knife with it in the wood, because I would have kept it for myself!

My A5s wood is definitely enhanced, but I'm just learning how to do it.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

03-10-2019, 04:31 AM

Installed the Sling Swivels and Sling today. Ready to go shoot hopefully tomorrow.

Randy

NyFirefighter357

03-10-2019, 09:07 AM

Randy, Excellent job. I have 2 here just like yours. I've never spent much time with them and never took a liking to them I was always partial to 1100's. This thread has got me thinking I should dig them out and get more aquatinted with them. Jay

W.R.Buchanan

03-11-2019, 12:45 PM

These guns are 'Machinery!" There is so much going on inside one of these guns it begs the question, "How did JMB think all this up?"

Go here and watch this video by someone who actually knows these guns inside and out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMBRdYZ5Mhs

It is a pretty enlightening video and you'll be sold after watching it.

This video has been my primary source of information for working on the internals of my guns. Art and his sons Nick and Brad are great guys to deal with and they will tell you anything you need to know. They are also reliable to do business with and this gun I am working on right now came from them in a trade for another one I got by mistake. They helped me come out even on the deal which helped alot.

Like I said go have a look. I figure anyone who is willing to make a 1.5 hour video to tell you all the secrets he's learned after a lifetime of Gunsmithing can't be all bad.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

03-16-2019, 04:18 PM

Got to shoot the gun today, and the intention was to sight it in and shoot some groups. That was a fantasy as there was an event going on at the Range and the wind was blowing hard at 40 MPH sideways!

I might add that this was a trip I was seriously loaded for. I had all my shotguns and all my loaded shotgun ammo with me which required the big truck to haul. I also had my chrono and the bench rest etc etc. Now I have to go out and unload it all and put it all away.

So I only got to shoot a few rounds. Results were encouraging!

First: The gun goes bang every time. It also runs like advertised, which is a big win for me, as it means that I can disassemble and reassemble a Browning A5 correctly!

I had the Miroku Smoothbore Slug barrel on the gun so no bore sized slugs today. I also had to shoot offhand as the bench was already taken by someone else. This was the first day anyone has been able to shoot at the Ojai Valley Gun Club Range for months so there was alot of people there.

Second; I can also Eyeball the set up of Sights pretty close,,, [smilie=w: as the very first shot went dead center on the Hanging Silhouette Chicken at 50 M I was aiming at! 6 of the next 7 shots also hit said chicken. I shot the last two Lee Slugs I had loaded at the 100 Meter Hanging Pigs and was close, but no hits. :cry:

In all the gun shoots well and is easy to run and will get easier the more I play with it. Can't wait to shoot the Hastings barrel! but I still need to actually put the gun on paper and see what is happening. Might go to the Santa Barbara Range next week and sight it in there. That range is shielded from the wind and is more conducive to 50 and 100 yard shooting that mine is.

Here's some pics of the chickens.

Randy

tomme boy

03-17-2019, 01:34 AM

Thats awesome!

W.R.Buchanan

03-17-2019, 02:26 PM

Hopefully I'll get to shoot at some paper targets this week so I can dial in the rear sights on both barrels with "base line slugs" which in the case of the smooth bore will be Federal Low Recoil cuz that's what I'll have to shoot at Front Sight. I think the rifled barrel will get dialed in with the STI Sabot Slugs, as they are supposed to be the most accurate.

Here's something I do when I sight in my rifles. I sight them in with the fastest load that will be shot from that particular gun, which in most cases will be a readily available Factory Load. This yields the "Mechanical Zero" for the gun and is the zero which all other loads are referenced to in elevation. All other loads are slower and thus only require a positive elevation change which is documented and thus predictable.

Thus when I go to shoot another load in the gun that I have previously shot all I do is dial in the appropriate plus elevation from the book and am dead on with that load again. All the elevation offsets for different ranges are also noted so I can dial in the appropriate elevation for a given distance. When done I put the rear sight back to it's mechanical zero. That way I am always starting from a known point.

On sights like Lyman Receiver Sights there are actually stops that you set and go down to when returning to MZ. With scopes you just go back to your Zero Hash Marks on the turret dials which you zeroed out after establishing your Mechanical Zero.

Shotguns with Rifle Sights or Scopes are handled exactly the same way..

Hope this helps some people looking for more understanding on how their sights work.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

03-22-2019, 08:58 PM

In order to further the testing of the various slugs I have available, I ordered some of what are supposed to be the most accurate Slug ammo out there. The point of this is to establish a baseline accuracy standard for all 3 guns.

They are Brenneke Tactical Home Defense and Lightfield Sabot slugs. In some 12 ga Rifles the Lightfield ammo is supposed to be sub MOA! The Brenneke's are supposed to be the hot tip for smooth bores.

I'd have to see that, but if it's possible it gives us something to shoot for.

The guns guns used for these tests will be a Browning A5 with a smoothbore slug barrel, and a Hastings Rifled barrel. A Mossberg 500 with a 20" Vang Comped barrel. And another M500 with a 24" rifled barrel.

So as soon as the ammo gets here I'll be shooting groups with it and report back. Then I will start shooting home made ammo and let you know what works best.

We seldom know exactly what our guns will do with a supposed "best quality ammo." All I know is that the Lightfield Slugs are supposed to be the most accurate shotgun slug ammo out there. Supposedly with either Rifled or Smoothbore Barrels. We'll see.

Hopefully this will give me a baseline accuracy standard to shoot for with my Home Made ammo. As far as home made ammo is concerned I see the STI slugs being best from the rifled barrels at 100 yards and the Pumpkin Balls or Lee Slugs from the Smoothbores at 50 yards.

Randy

tomme boy

03-22-2019, 11:58 PM

I have always had the best luck with Win foster slugs in several smooth bores. If they did not like the 2.75 then they would like the 3". Or the other way.

Those Lightfields are some heavy recoilers!!!

W.R.Buchanan

03-23-2019, 03:53 AM

Tomme: I got the Lightfield Hybrid Lites which are 1.25 oz at 1300 fps, or the lightest loads they make in 12 ga.

The Brenneke Tactical Home Defense are 1oz at 1300 fps and are designed to duplicate other brands Low Recoil 12 ga slugs,,, with better slugs.

We'll see how they act.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

03-23-2019, 07:23 PM

OK: one other thing for today was making some Brass Inserts for the STI Sabots. I ended up making 11 of them and after weighing they came out right on 550 gr total with the Sabot. The Lead inserts were 490 gr total.

I made my inserts with a longer Spigot that goes into the sabot and larger diameter nose section and longer nose section. This is how I picked up the extra weight over the lead inserts.

For those interested I made the inserts .710 major dia. tapering to .600 at the nose end. .505 dia for the Spigot x .620 long and the OAL of the whole thing is .900. They were made from regular 360 Series Brass Rod.

These should fly pretty well.

Here's pics.

Randy

tomme boy

03-23-2019, 08:51 PM

The regular 1.25oz hunting loads from Lightfield are real bruisers. But they sure shot well.

Those brass Sabot should shoot well. But not from the pocketbook!

W.R.Buchanan

03-29-2019, 06:21 PM

OK , today a nother piece of the puzzle arrived. It was the Briley Magazine Extension. This was a Plus 2 Extension which looks very nice and is made even nicer. It has a ring for attaching a standard Uncle Mikes QD Sling Swivel and came with an Extended Mag Spring.

The gun will now carry 7 rounds total or 6+1 depending on how you look at it.

Update: Turns out it swallows 7 rounds in the mag. So the gun is 7+1 now.

I will make it to the range this weekend and get this new part totally sussed out so it runs perfectly. I doubt there will be much too it.

Me and My Bro in Law are headed to Front Sight the middle of April for a Rifle and Shotgun class where I will be shooting this gun alot and figuring out how to run it.

Here's pics of the gun with the new part attached. This was made by Briley who makes all sorts of Shotgun accessories. It is very well made.

Randy

cmh

03-29-2019, 06:52 PM

Nice lookin Browning!!! [emoji106]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

W.R.Buchanan

03-31-2019, 03:41 PM

OK, got to shoot the A5 yesterday and it runs perfectly. found out the mag extension allows 7 rounds in the tube so the gun is 7+1 or 8 total. Did a mag dump on 8 dirt clods at 15 yards and it ran great.

Then I went over to the bench and tried shooting some groups with various ammo that I have loaded to test Roll Crimping with different slugs. I loaded all these along the way and didn't want to take them apart as there was nothing wrong with them and they all went bang. All shot from the Smoothbore Barrel at a paper target set up in front of the Hanging 50 Meter Chickens at the range.

I shot one 5 shot group and then started having problems, mostly with the darn target not wanting to stay in place and falling over requiring multiple trips to the target to reset it. I only really only got one decent 3" 4 shot group before another problem reared it's ugly head.

The Browning Rear Sight kept falling apart! I managed to find all the little parts each time but it became evident that I needed some drastic action to fix this one. I now know why the rear sight on the Hastings Barrel was epoxied in place! The violent nature of the barrel cycling really beats these sight around and the Microscopic $10 screws they used for windage adjustment don't have a chance. I was so lucky to find them each time they came out . They were good for 2-3 shots, they are 1-64 threads and will twist off in a heartbeat. Blue Loctite held them for about 10 rounds before they came out and Red Loctite will be a one way trip.

Since the elevation is usable and adjustable, I will sight the windage in with the Laser and glue it in place and be done with it. I can get it close enough for 50-100 yards shots which is all this gun will ever have to do with open sights.

I am planning to make a new rear sight elevation block for each barrel which will replace the existing open sight block with one that will adapt a Burris Fastfire III. It will simply require knocking out the little roll pin to change back and forth.

These are all fine tuning points. I did a double wrap of 1/2" 3x Heat Shrink Tubing on the Bolt Handle to soften it as a temp fix for that until I can get to modding the extra one I have permanently.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

03-31-2019, 04:02 PM

That little screw has a step that is about 1/4" dia just under the domed head. It engages the cylindrical aperture. Then it tapers down to the mini thread which is .070 in Dia. which threads into the base block.

This rear sight is used on the Browning and Hastings slug barrels, Browning BLR's, and some Browning Hi-Powers

Cylinder and Slide is now making these and are selling them on Ebay for $21.95 +$4.95 shipping !!!!

This is ridiculous as they sold me the two I bought from them 2 months ago for $10 for a pair!

You've got to watch everybody nowadays !

Browning could have done better on the design of this part!

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

04-13-2019, 12:30 PM

I built a Bridle for my stock yesterday to allow me to mount my sling on either side of the stock. It was made from my normal 1.5" belting with two Uncle Mikes studs cut off and welded to some fender washers. It got taken to my favorite Auto Upholstery shop and sewed together. It is held in place by Velcro.

I can now carry the gun Cross Body with the muzzle down or Cross Back for long hauls.

This is a better way to haul a shotgun around and is more comfortable while standing waiting to shoot.

At Front Sight you shoot in two relays. You are standing behind your partner and are supposed to be coaching him while you are not shooting. You have to have a sling on the gun for this. Previously I had just the regular Sling attachment on the gun. Now I can sling the gun 3 different ways and the Butt Bridle comes right off so there's no change to the gun.

Good addition.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

04-24-2019, 07:30 PM

OK guys I'm back form Front Sight. Had a great time.

Did a 2 Day Rifle Skill Builder Course with my BIL on Friday and Saturday and we both sucked. Definitely need more practice with that platform.

Then we did a 2 day Tactical Shogun Class on Monday and Tuesday an didn't suck at all. In fact I can report that the A5 performed well beyond my expectations.

It took me the first day plus a little of the second to get completely dialed in on how to operate the thing in an efficient manner, and then it was all down hill and just kept getting faster and faster. It is similar to a pump gun in alot of ways, but there are some glaring differences in performance.

With the "Speed Feed" feature the gun is lots faster to load from empty. Normally with an empty gun you "port load" when empty to keep in the fight, and you can do that with this gun too by simply dropping a shell in the Ejection Port and hitting the Bolt Release Button.

However it is much faster to just shove one in the loading port and then the gun feeds it directly into the chamber and closes the bolt. The Browning Auto 5's built after 1963 are the only Semi Auto Guns that do this. It is a serious advantage as far as time goes.

For the "Port Loading Drill" you start with an empty gun. On the "Go" command you load one and fire at a target 15 yards away. You then load another and shoot a different target and then load again and hold. I could beat just about everybody to the first shot and in some cases I was done before some on the line even got their first shot off! I was getting some serious WTH looks for that!

Was very lucky that the Range Master was a big A5 enthusiast and he showed me some ways to make it go faster. The gun ran pretty much perfectly all the way, I did have the rear sight fall apart near the end of the first day. It is now Permanently Glued together with Red Loctite. It shoots a little to the right but the Front Sight can be drifted a little to bring it in and nobody will know the difference.

I also had some problems with Winchester Walmart Universal shells sticking in the mag tube when unloading the last round. Closer inspection revealed that the star crimp on their hulls actually flares the end of the hull instead of tapering it inwards. The Federal Walmart Ammo has a nice taper on the end so we won't be buying anymore of the Winchester stuff. Both are same price everywhere. $21.74 per 100.

Fired right at 300 rounds 225 bird, 20 bucks and the rest slugs. Came home with a bunch of the pretty blue Federal hulls that can be reloaded.

This was a good course and after you learn how to run the gun and get it setup so it doesn't beat you to death, you start to realize just how much power you have in your hands and it is loads of fun! I highly recommend that everyone who's interested in the shotgun slug or using a shotgun as a defensive tool or dangerous game weapon, go to a class and learn how to use the gun to a higher level. You be surprised just how much you don't know. It will raise your confidence greatly, and the new power you have will make your chest stick out!

Randy