Slug Hollow Base Fillers

[Ranch Dog]

I have the NOE 680-500-HB with the hot glue plugs for testing after a cold front passage. What about other fillers. JB Weld seem like a pain, but how about something like Plastic Wood? Any others?

[bikerbeans]

I heat treat hollow base slugs and leave the cavity empty. The sidewalls do not collapse. Then its just a matter of a wad column that doesn't migrate into the HB.

BB

[stubshaft]

Bondo!

[rking22]

Anyone ever try the lightweight filler for sheetrock paint prep? I have played with the Lyman 20ga and found I needed some type filler to keep the wad from " sticking" inside. Haven't revisited the project in years but the possibility of an NOE 16 ga tweeked my interest again.

[longbow]

I've only used cormeal and hot melt glue which works well for me but... amazingly enough if the slugs aren't warm the glue can totally shrink (cold shut) and not bond. I often run a small wood screw into the base of the slug or into the cavity so that the head sticks out and that holds the glue if the bond is no good. Those Lyman clones have a very conical HB cavity that may be problematic for glue pugs falling out in transit to the target so changing accuracy.

Heating the slugs before filling or using a screw is the best bet.

Alternatives:

- as BB says ~ oven heat treat then skirt collapse shouldn't be an issue; worked for me but I didn't like having to use hardened slugs
- for rifled gun, cut the HB pin down so the slug is solid
- paraffin wax; apparently it falls out after the slug leaves the bore... so I am told
- epoxy/JB weld
- silicone or acrylic caulk

Paraffin wax or hot melt glue are probably the easiest and maybe cheapest too. Screws don't cost much but you need a lathe or jig to get the screw hole centered... or get a pin inserted into the HB plug to leave a screw starter hole.

I have had skirt distortion on ACWW slugs with very thick skirts so yes, it can be a problem.

Longbow

[Bob9863]

I've used hot glue, rice, corn cob media and felt as well as nylon washers.
The best was probably the nylon washers about 1mm thick X 16mm diameter followed by hot glue on a fiber seat.

[Ranch Dog]

Thanks, guys

While in the plastic bin, I've already had some of the hot glue plugs fall out. I didn't have any Plastic Wood, but will get some this week. The only thing I could find in my shop was some "ready, quickset grout" so I tired it on one slug and it is as hard as a rock. It didn't expand nor contract, just a level base from the puddy knife.

My slugs have leveled off at a BHN of 29.

[rancher1913]

I have used the plastic wood filler and it is as good as the hot melt glue, also used "fast and final" sheet rock patch, it is not quite as good as the plastic wood but does work. if you have a strong enough wad column, filling is not needed but I set the slug right in a wad with no extra wad pieces so the base fill does help.

[longbow]

Using coarse sand paper or emery cloth on a dowel that fits the HB taper to rough it up may give the glue enough grip to stay in. However, I've had attached glue skirts cast into Lee Drive Key slugs in a form fall out! A guy would figure theres enough surface there to grip and not a lot of taper but nope!

Like I said, I either cast with an HB pin with an added tapered pin to leave a screw starter hole or I drill a starter hole then put a wood screw in to give the glue something to grip.

Alternately the Paraffin wax sounds like a good idea. Caulk might be good too and fairly cheap.

For a few rounds for hunting, cost or time spent doesn't really matter but when you decide to go blast off 50 rounds or so it does! Yes, I plink with a 12 ga.!

Longbow

[Chad5005]

how about uhmvw or plastic ball bearings or would that add to much weight

[longbow]

Those should work in a regular Foster style HB that is deep with not much taper but not likely in the Lyman or clone because the cavity is very conical. The ball would fall out.

I think a few people here have tried the plastic balls. At least there have been discussion threads. Corbin has them and I think you can get them on internet auction sites. They certainly seem to work in Federal Tru-Ball slugs so they should work in a similar home cast slug.

[Ranch Dog]

Yes, I plink with a 12 ga.!
That would not be on my list of shooting for fun.

Thanks for the Plastic Wood report, rancher, I think that is my next move. It seems like it would be the easiest to apply. Now it is down to a color selection!

My initial impression of Lyman (NOE) over Lee is that the 680-500-HB is easer to find a column wad that fits and fits without trimming the wad petals. I still need to get the NOE out to 100-yards. I do sit and look at the two molds offered by Lyman and the two by Lee and wonder, what the heck! All four have been around a very long time, but any effort searching does not deliver good MOA results at the end of the story. All require some kind of tinkering to get anywhere. I guess they keep selling the designs so that is good by them and I guess some guys don't mind the ever-increasing helical flight path downrange. I think it all comes down to the relationship of the CG to CL; they all need tail feather that sticks with them to the target.

All this thinking caused me to pull two Lightfield Sabot/Slugs and load them over 25-grains of Universal with a roll crimp them. I just want to see if they shoot as tight as their factory ammo does. The hulls crimped sloppy because they had been folded, but I'm going to send them downrange anyway.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/512/reloading/images/LF_reload_01.jpg

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/512/reloading/images/LF_reload_02.jpg

With all my internet searching, I had wandered on to the Sabot Technologies ~ Slugs-R-Us (http://slugsrus.com/product94.html) website. I went back to it and bought 40 of their one and a 1/8-ounce saboted Hammerheads just to see how they travel downrange.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/512/reloading/images/sabot_tech_hammerhead_01.jpg

[longbow]

Welcome to the mysterious world of slug shooting!

I have launched tons of lead downrange over the years and so far have come to the conclusion that, for me anyway, round balls are about as accurate as any home cast and loaded slug I have tried to 50 yards or somewhat further. Pretty much all HB slugs I have tried suffer from skirt collapse unless filled or oven heat treated (soft lead need not apply).

My "solution" was to go to attached wad slugs like Brenneke or AQ. In fact I tried to make a poor man's AQ slug with moderate success. In the end I made some moulds that produce a solid lead nose with screw starter hole in the base. These get a #10 or #12 flathead wood screw run in so there is about 1/4" sticking out. The "nose" is then put into a form with screw up, the form filled with hot melt glue to slightly overfilled, the whole works inverted quickly then pushed base down onto a cold steel plate that has been lightly greased. Once cooled and solid the slug with attached glue base is pushed out.

I usually use at least 5 forms so this all goes quite quickly.

These are wad slugs and if I do my part in making decent glue skirts they are quite accurate.

I have also used the same technique to put skirts/attached wads onto Lee and other HB slugs with good success. With Lee Drive key slugs these are much like BigMrTong's 3D printed skirts that he snaps in. BigMrTong's skirts are likely more consistent and easier to install though... but I do not have a 3D printer.

I agree with your observation ~ " ...they all need tail feather that sticks with them to the target." For smoothbore anyway. From rifled gun this shouldn't be a problem, just fit to bore which can take some playing with wads and slugs.

I made a full bore mould that drops slugs at 0.729" within about +/- 0.001". It didn't shoot very well from my single shot which when slugged after the fact was 0.733" bore! So, I tried knurling the slugs up over bore diameter then sizing back to exactly 0.733". Accuracy is now quite good to 50 yards.

my new to me Mossberg 500 Slugster has a 0.730" bore. I'm betting that unless I make another mould that casts a straight ribbed slug (done that) at 0.734"/0.735" so it fits the single shot and ribs will crush to suit the Mossberg I won't be getting very good accuracy from one gun or the other.

This is the reason I have taken to making slugs undersize then paper patching to suit the bore. A guy can get custom fit that way but... if patched to fit the larger bore then maybe a bit big for the smaller bore unless easily compressible. Wad petals only give so much before failing.

I slugged a Remintgon 870 with rifled barrel and got 0.727" so another 0.003" down from my new smoothbore.

It is hard to fit that much variation 0.006" and maintain accuracy. My thoughts are that a full bore slug that is started at about 0.735" and designed to compress to suit the actual bore diameter is likely to be the easiest to get universal accuracy... like Brenneke does.

Another point I should mention about my slugs with attached glue wads. The glue compresses and expands on firing squeezing the glue and wad petals tight to bore. this is obvious on recovered wads. It works in smoothbore but I haven't tried it in a rifled gun to see if rifling will be gripped well enough.

The old (and back again) AQ slugs have a plastic attached wad that works in the same way and they gave me very good accuracy to 100 yards but were too expensive to shoot many of. That is what stimulated me to try hot melt glue.

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/AQ-Slug-lead-12ga-25-per-kit-unassembled/productinfo/0151000L/

These are slightly different design than what I tried many years ago. Those looked like a bore diameter ball with a little flat on the base but same plastic attached wad. The new ones have a more slug like lead nose.

I was not a believer in "rifling" on slugs being effective at producing rotation but Taofleadermaus has video of typical lead Foster slugs showing slow rotation in flight. Not enough to produce typical gyroscopic stabilization but enough to offset some flight deviation to improve accuracy. Not sure if a rifled gun would shoot AQ's well or not but worth a try. A smooth attached wad would be better for rifled gun.

The Hammerheads are reportedly a good slug though and you have those.

BigMrTong's modified Lee slugs may well produce good groups from rifled gun as the straight fins produce a nose heavy design using a slug designed to be loaded into a shotcup.

It is a challenge and requires much more tinkering than typical metallic cartridge reloading and shooting! At least for some of us slow learners.

I'd figure those NOE Lyman clones should shoot quite well from rifled gun with the right wad/slug fit to bore.

Another option for rifled gun is 0.735" round balls. They shoot well for me from smoothbore and same loads from rifled gun gave 2" groups at 50 yards and that with open sights. Also, I had been recoiled almost senseless shooting a bunch of hot loaded .44 mags. through my Marlin then 35 or so of the same stout 0.735" RB load through my light smoothbore off the bench prior to using the rifled gun.

Longbow

[JBinMN]

Caulk might work, although might be expensive.

Candle wax might work as well if ya have cheap candles.

Wood glue might work as well. I used to buy it by the gallon when I was doing finish trim work. Was less expensive that way. (BTW - don't let a jug tip over in the bed of your pickup all over the place including tools. It ain't pretty. ;) )

I have not tried any of the above, just making suggestions on what I might try if I were wanting to fill the voids in slugs & use fairly lightweight substances to keep the weight down.

I just use the Lee slugs and have not filled the bases yet.

G'Luck. Just trying to help with some suggestions...

[6pt-sika]

I use hot melt glue . But I’ve been contemplating wax , I’m thinking that would be loads easier to get a relatively flat base .

[W.R.Buchanan]

One thing to consider here is "wished for accuracy" versus "real world accuracy" and is what you are getting sufficient for what you intend to use the slugs for?

In the real world very few older hunting rifles would do much better than 3" at 100 yards and that was if the guy could actually shoot that well to begin with. And yet animals fell, and dinner was served.

If a smooth bore shot gun with rifle sights will do 3" at 50 yards. I already know my 20" M500 will do that with Factory Slugs and I have posted pics of the groups which I even shot offhand. If I can get these Lyman/NOE slugs to shoot that good I'll be pretty happy.

I am working on getting a Rifled Barrel for my old A5 and if that gun shoots to even 6" at 100 yards with open sights I'd be happy and that gun would do anything I could ask of it with that level of accuracy. A gun with a rifled barrel might be a 125 yard gun maybe a bit farther but I think 150 yds. would be asking alot. But it would be a 3" gun at 50 yards which is more likely to be the case.

If the gun is 6 MOA at 100 that is still 9" at 150 which is still within the kill zone of most game animals. Since the typical ranges shotguns are used at are less than 100 and more like 35-70 yards I think we'd be finding that we had arrived at a workable combination fairly quickly.

I think the key is to not expect varmint rifle accuracy from a shotgun. And to realize that any hit with a 500 grain slug is going to have a serious effect on the target. Keep in mind that a cloverleaf group on a target with slugs is going to cover a 1.5" area.

Randy

[Ranch Dog]

I agree what you are saying; I would be happy with larger MOAs as long as long as the MOA is maintained; 50, 75, and through 100 yards. When I started this work, I told myself I could live 3.5 MOA given the size of the projectile even though our whitetails are small. The mistake I made was shooting the Lightfields. The inconsistency I've seen from the Lee slugs, as an example, as they helical out of control; just does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling. I shoot 4 or five at 100-yards, and one does not even strike the berm, the instability of the projectile is a reason for concern. I own enough ranch land that I know it will stop on my place, but it is a sickening feeling when it happens, and it has been happening on a regular basis.

The Plastic Wood filler went very well. It feels the same as the grout, but the grout was easier to apply.

[Undercover Rabbit]

Has anyone used buffer to fill up the bottom of a slug to keep the wad from being shoved up in the slug? (I know primarily everyone is talking about filling the back of slugs with material that does not come out.)

[6pt-sika]

Has anyone used buffer to fill up the bottom of a slug to keep the wad from being shoved up in the slug? (I know primarily everyone is talking about filling the back of slugs with material that does not come out.)

IMHO glue wax caulk whatever are a bit more user friendly then buffer .

[Ranch Dog]

Has anyone used buffer to fill up the bottom of a slug to keep the wad from being shoved up in the slug? (I know primarily everyone is talking about filling the back of slugs with material that does not come out.)
With the new NOE mould, I tried BPI Buffer Filler. I kept the slug base up while the column wad went over it and then maintained pressure on it until the stack was complete. It didn't work; it was the same as shooting without any filler. Column wad collapsed up into the hollow base.

[longbow]

Many years ago I tried using cornmeal as is in the cavities of Lyman Foster slugs. I turned slugs upside down, filled the cavities with cornmeal then pressed masking tape over and trimmed around the outside edges. That held the cornmeal in and recovered slugs had compacted cornmeal in the cavities but it didn't help accuracy any... or not significantly anyway.

[Ranch Dog]

Two sample runs ready to go test once the cold wind lets up a bit; the difference in them being the hollow base filler. One set is hot glue filled and the other, Plastic Wood. The hulls were loaded with the Load-All II, I used the press set the 12S3 wad, nitro card, and slug. The X12X gas seal in the priming chamber is still making an awesome and effective stop for folding the star crimp.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/NOE/680-500-HB_CE1/680-500-HB_CE1_Federal_12S3_06.jpg

[Hogtamer]

RD, I see what you're accomplishing and they look nice. Just in case you don't know there is a single screw on the back of the aluminum post that attaches the wad guide and 2 holes. Screw in the bottom hole is for 2 3/4" and top hole is 3". This reduces travel to accomodate the longer hull. For the hot glue fill if you overfill them first, let them set till firm, then use a hot small blade to trim the overfill you get a good flush consistent base.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yes as far as loading I used my Pacific DL266.

I feel it is necessary to resize the base of any shotgun hull as they will stick in a chamber if you don't.

Used the 3rd station where the powder/shot are dropped but charged the cases with measured charges. Seated the wad and then pressed the slug in until I got 50 lb of wad pressure which resulted in perfect fold crimps.

I used the blue Clay Buster Slug Wads for my loads as after doing a muzzle press test the Regular Clay Buster WAA12 clone was too big and wouldn't even go in the cylinder bore. The Blue Wads do, but are loose so maybe a wrap of tape or paper will be needed.

Surprisingly my .662 Pumpkin Balls with a 1/4" felt wad in the base of the WAA12 clone fit the muzzle of my house gun (Cylinder Bore .729-.730) perfectly. Maybe that's why they shot so well.

I've got to make a load block today as loading one at a time is slow.

For those that don't already know, Pacific DL266 are arguably the best single stage loaders ever made. There's plenty of them out there and I got mine for $50 off www.trapshooters.com . It works really well for short batch loading, or if you need to you can do 200 rounds an hour.

Keep in mind that you can reload 12 ga hulls with a nail and a piece of dowel, but you will make better ammo if you use some kind of single stage loader. Any old Pacific, MEC, C&H, Texan, Lee or a bunch of others that have come and gone, will do the job better than the nail and dowel. I have an early Lee Classic Loader that was made before Lee was Lee, and it does just fine. Plenty of those on Ebay, and plenty of the others as well.

Do yourself a favor if you want to load shot shells, get a shot shell press. I don't feel that a $25-50 investment is too much to support a hobby that you are this far into. Making good ammo is the whole reason people reload. You can't make good ammo without proper tools.

Randy

[gpidaho]

I'm a retired finish carpenter and have for years used a product called "Rage" it's a bondo type wood filler that is an epoxy mix. It bonds very tight to metal or wood and sands smooth very easily. My new Noe mould will be here tomorrow and one of my first comparison tests will be the Hot glue, bondo , solid base comparison test. Gp

[Ranch Dog]

RD, I see what you're accomplishing and they look nice. Just in case you don't know there is a single screw on the back of the aluminum post that attaches the wad guide and 2 holes. Screw in the bottom hole is for 2 3/4" and top hole is 3". This reduces travel to accomodate the longer hull. For the hot glue fill if you overfill them first, let them set till firm, then use a hot small blade to trim the overfill you get a good flush consistent base.

Thanks, I didn't think about the hot blade cutting the cooled glue. Other than the five I have loaded, I went back through my slugs and popped all the glue plugs out. None of them stuck.

My Load-ALL II is old enough, that I had to drill my own 3" hole in the square, upright tube. Because of it's age, it came with the primer feeder assembly which I consider a win!

[Ranch Dog]

Randy, how does your Dillon measure the column wad pressure applied? I have a 12 Gauge 3" Lee Loader, the complete kit, and the instructions state that if you want to load columns to a given pressure, to do the work on a bathroom scale, and seat thembetween 16 and 18 pounds. I think the Load All does a better job of all the reloading than does the kit. The Load-All Junior was an attempt to market a loader at the price point of the kit so Lee could move away from the Loaders.


My Load-ALL II is old enough, that I had to drill my own 3" hole in the square, upright tube. Because of it's age, it came with the primer feeder assembly which I consider a win!
My LA II (1996) is not old enough to have the metal base like Randy's. I think his press is the "Improved Load All" (https://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/LA.pdf). There was an update kit (#90073) that changed out the base to that of the II.

While on the Load-All II, I remove the hopper from the square tube to dump the powder. I always wondered why Lee didn't include this in the instructions nor their online FAQs. I went a step further and drilled a 7/16" hole in one corner of the Bushing Storage Box for use of that box/hopper cover as a method of dumping the powder. I have since seen where some press owers drill a small hole in the cover, but I'm glad I kept my top solid. I don't use the Bushing Storage Box except when emptying the hopper.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/Lee/loadall/empty/loadall_II_empty_03.jpg

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/Lee/loadall/empty/loadall_II_empty_04.jpg

Here is a lousy, redneck video I made of removing and emptying the hopper.


https://youtu.be/o5UyU6qXdck

After removing the hopper and before reinstalling it on the square tube, I take the opportunity to clean and lube the tube and pivot points on the handle and links. I use a very light amount of petroleum jelly.

I don't think I'm going to get a chance to shoot the NOEs today, the rain just keeps increasing.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yes, setting the wad pressure was done on a bathroom scale. I never did do that. The main reason I think they stopped making the hand tools is because they are very hard to get a consistent crimp with. I finally got a MEC Wad guide and use that to insert the wads and a Crimp starter from I think,,, Lee. I can get good crimps as long as I get the same amount of powder and shot in the hulls which kind of defines the charge height which directly affects the crimp closing.

That Blue Press is a Pacific DL266 and yes it has a Wad pressure scale on the front of the machine . On the rounds I loaded last night I had to insert the wad then insert the slug using the press and then squish it down until I got to 50 lbs. I went to sleep on one of them and squashed the wad and slug way down and had to take that one apart.

I have a Dillon SL900 which I got for $250 but haven't used it. It is one of the best designed presses out there. This one is nearly brand new, and if I start shooting trap again I will fire it up.

Randy

[Ranch Dog]

My mold business allowed me the contact with Lee where I was able to ask a lot of questions about their products. The shotgun Loaders where incomplete for the task and the Deluxe kits where not profitable and so began the move to the Load-All (Junior, Improved, and II). It seems to me that the Loaders are just not made for new hulls and I understand that limitation within the price range. Starting a star crimp with the palm operated tool is easy as it "bottoms," and further pressure will crush the hull. The die and the closing tool just cannot form the crimp on a new hull.

I sure hope I can shoot the NOEs today, it rained all day yesterday and most of the night.

[Blood Trail]

I've played with the hammerhead slugs in both 12 and 20 ga quite extensively. I have both molds. They are one of the most accurate slugs I reload. The 12 ga shoots lights out with every powder I've tried. Shot sub MOA with 800x out of my USH. At the time, SlugsRus didn't have any data with Longshot, so I worked up some loads, tested them, and then submitted it to SlugsRus. They pressure tested it and it is now a part of their published load data.

The 20 ga takes a little more patience to find a load. This past weekend, i ran a few batches through my 220 with the Tarhunt barrel using Herco and Longshot. Both shot great, but showed signs of pressure in my 220 and USH. Neither gun would extract/eject the spent hulls.

As far as slug release from wads in slug in cup loads, have you tried dusting your wads with mica powder? I started doing that to help with the release.

[a danl]

i'm new here , but i'm not new to reloading and casting for shotguns. i have been reloading for over 50 years and and i have really enjoyed all the input, and many times i feel as though i could have been helpful with a few comments but was not registered. but now i am. so here goes... in reference to fillers i used to raise honey bees so i have a little supply of beeswax and that is what i have settled on as a filler. i also dust the bottem of the slug on the wax with a touch of mica and then an overshot card just to keep the wads from sticking to the slug because i seem to like my loads to be all alike. i use a lyman foster slug and i expand it to fit the bore of my 12ga rem rifled barrel. for me it has worked very well......comments please will be warmly accepted

[Blood Trail]

i'm new here , but i'm not new to reloading and casting for shotguns. i have been reloading for over 50 years and and i have really enjoyed all the input, and many times i feel as though i could have been helpful with a few comments but was not registered. but now i am. so here goes... in reference to fillers i used to raise honey bees so i have a little supply of beeswax and that is what i have settled on as a filler. i also dust the bottem of the slug on the wax with a touch of mica and then an overshot card just to keep the wads from sticking to the slug because i seem to like my loads to be all alike. i use a lyman foster slug and i expand it to fit the bore of my 12ga rem rifled barrel. for me it has worked very well......comments please will be warmly accepted

AD,

Welcome! I love hearing different people thoughts and ideas.

How did you get you foster slugs to swage out to bore diameter?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[longbow]

a danl:

Yes, the biggest issue I've run into for accuracy with the Lyman Foster slug is that it is way undersize for the bore. I recently post several comments on other threads about this since the Lyman Foster has come up a few times.

My take (just my opinion) is that the slugs cast undersize for a couple of reasons:

- Lyman was afraid of full bore slugs through chokes though some testing would have sorted that out quickly and since soft lead slugs obturate to fill the bore they wind up full bore anyway. Factory Fosters were apparently made undersize as well until a few years ago. Same flawed reasoning?
- Ideal/Lyman used to sell a swaging die to add rifling to the slug:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lyman-12-gauge-rifled-slug-swaging-tool-/173613174727

My take on this (again just my opinion) is that if the lands swaged inwards then equal amounts of lead are swaged outwards so 0.010" lands displace lead outwards at 0.010" for total of 0.020" + 0.705" as cast = 0.725". I've never gotten to see the swage die or measure a slug but that makes some sense as to why the slugs are so undersize. Otherwise, I have no idea!

One of the old posters here said to put a copper washer under the soft lead slug so it had a hard even base to force it to obturate evenly. I tried that with no success. The only way I got accuracy of any sort was paper patching to bore diameter.

Yes, I am curious too in how you swage the slugs up to bore diameter. Do you have a cavity shaped punch to expand the slug into the piece of barrel or squish from the nose... or both?

Here's how another guy did it:

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=132184

He says his slugs cast at 0.690". If so, I'd size down a bit to suit good wads. Likely easier than swaging up. Mine cast at 0.705" though and sizing down didn't work for me. Maybe too much in one go?

Anyway, I pursued other alternatives because I don't like the thin construction of the Lyman slug either.

The Rapine .730550 and .735600 were nice slug designs that sadly are no longer available. I had some .730550's to test out many years ago. They shot quite well for me and had a nice design with thick nose. They should shoot well from rifled gun as well as smoothbore. I'm surprised no-one makes a similar mould now.

Longbow

[GBertolet]

I have the Rapine 730550 mold. It is a well made mold. The slugs remind me of a flying trash can. Performance for me has been inconsistent. I made a smaller base plug for the mold, to make the skirt thicker, slugs now 625 grains. I tried various fillers for the base, including plastic balls. I tried liquid alox, and teflon tape on the outside of the slugs. I tested in 2 different shotguns. A Rem 1100 with rifled choke tube, and NEF slug hunter with rifled barrel. One outing the slugs shoots clover leafs at 50 yards. The next time a 6 inch group. I don't understand it, as the same loading procedures and components are used. The slug should be a real winner on big game as the sharp shoulder cuts a huge clean hole just like a wadcutter bullet does. A good close to moderate range slug, but I suspect stability issues at longer ranges.

I have the Lyman forster mold also. I tried hot glue for a base filler, and cut adhesive mailing labels, to paper patch the slugs. I made a trapezoidal template to cut the labels with, for a perfect fit. It gave an inconsistent performance. Good one time and bad the next. My slugs dropped at .706 from the mold. I finally put the mold blocks in my lathe, and with a boring bar, increased the diameter to a little over .730. It still didn't shoot any better. Recovered slugs show collapsed skirt walls. Looks like I will have to made a smaller base plug for that mold also. It's very frustrating, but still challenging. I keep going back to the .735 RB with 40 gr of Blue Dot, which is my proven and consistent performer.

[longbow]

I have had much the same experiences! Seems like there is a bit of black magic and/or holding your mouth just so as you shoot!

I have found best results with round balls out to 50 yards or so and attached wad slugs so far. No base filling there!

I am surprised you got inconsistent results with the Rapine slug. It appears to be a good design to me and the few I got to shoot did well.

Did you cast the Rapine slugs from soft lead or wheelweights? So far virtually all HB slugs I have shot show skirt collapse unless they are oven heat treated... doesn't mater how thick the skirt is up to 0.150" thick. I generally use ACWW for slugs.

Yes, the 0.735" RB is a substantial and dependable projectile. No doubt about it. I'g like to do some more shooting with rifled barrel. I am getting close to buying a rifled gun or at least rifled barrel for my new to me Mossberg Slugster.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

It is difficult top assess what a designer was thinking unless you can ask him directly I have ran up against this numerous times during my career trying to figure out why someone did what he did when it didn't make any sense to me.

Sometimes there was solid logic, sometimes not.

While playing with my new un-rifled Buck Special A5 barrel that I received yesterday,,, I found the muzzle was Choked to .715 That is -.015 or"Light Modified" choke. Assuming a .730 bore.

One of two things was happening here. Either Browning designed the barrel to shoot Buck Shot exclusively or it deliberately designed the barrel to swage the lands on Rifled Slugs, perhaps to get them to "bite" in the choke and impart spin to the slug? Without being able to talk to an engineer we can only speculate. I might add that the finish on this barrel is a mirror finish, and one of the best I have seen so whatever they did was done for a reason. We just need to figure out what the reason was.

Maybe an Inquiry at www.trapshooters.com will yield a plausible answer.

Randy

This barrel has marks in the muzzle that indicate slugs have been shot thru it. The Choked area is only about 1" long.

[6pt-sika]

It is difficult top assess what a designer was thinking unless you can ask him directly I have ran up against this numerous times during my career trying to figure out why someone did what he did when it didn't make any sense to me.

Sometimes there was solid logic, sometimes not.

While playing with my new un-rifled Buck Special A5 barrel that I received yesterday,,, I found the muzzle was Choked to .715 That is -.015 or"Light Modified" choke. Assuming a .730 bore.

One of two things was happening here. Either Browning designed the barrel to shoot Buck Shot exclusively or it deliberately designed the barrel to swage the lands on Rifled Slugs, perhaps to get them to "bite" in the choke and impart spin to the slug? Without being able to talk to an engineer we can only speculate. I might add that the finish on this barrel is a mirror finish, and one of the best I have seen so whatever they did was done for a reason. We just need to figure out what the reason was.

Maybe an Inquiry at www.trapshooters.com will yield a plausible answer.

Randy

This barrel has marks in the muzzle that indicate slugs have been shot thru it. The Choked area is only about 1" long.

I have a Belgium made A-5 12 Mag rifle sighted smoothbore buck barrel . It does very well out to 50 yards with factory loaded Remington 3” Foster Slugs , it however doesn’t do so hot with factory loaded Buckshot in 000 , 00 and #1 .

[GBertolet]

My slugs are usually cast of 50/50 WW and pure lead, even the 735 RB is. I was always fearful of heat treating the slugs, worrying over increasing pressures, especially in thin shotgun barrels. Maybe my fears are unfounded.

The attached photo is an old one. Left is the Rapine 730550 alox coated, a modified Lee rolled over a wood rasp to increase diameter, bare modified Lee, finally the Lyman forster opened up to .730+ diameter.

[longbow]

Let me qualify my comment about oven heat treating. All the slugs I heat treated were shot through a cylinder bore gun and were not much if any over bore diameter, most actually under bore diameter.

The heat treating was to stop skirts from collapsing after I recovered some HB slugs from deep snow and found all had collapsed skirts even though they were thick and the slugs loaded into cushion legged shotcups. Oven heat treating solved the collapsing skirts.

I would not shoot a solid full bore diameter heat treated slug through a choke of any restriction! I would not shoot a solid heat treated slug that was more than a thou or two over bore diameter in a cylinder bore gun or the same over groove diameter for rifled gun unless it had narrow driving bands that would easily collapse, or ribs like a Brenneke.

If the slug is bore diameter or a thou or two over bore diameter I do not think that heat treating will affect pressure in any way. Possibly a long bearing length hard and solid slug with no relief (lube grooves, ribs or hollow cavity) might be an issue if over bore diameter. There I'd prefer to play it safe and go no larger than bore diameter (groove diameter for rifled gun).

I am wondering if the reason for the rather odd shape of the old Paradox slugs with narrow driving bands and extremely large groove was to allow the driving bands to compress if the slug was ever shot through a smoothbore choked gun? Having said that apparently Paradox guns were choked to about typical full choke through the rifled section so again, I wonder if that is the reason for the somewhat unique design?

Having a solid full bore slug find its way into a full choked gun accidentally is a fear of mine. I would prefer a slug design that will squish through a choke without damaging it. Brenneke has managed it for over 100 years. Hollow or ribbed is fine as long as it is choke friendly.

Longbow

[Ganderite]

I have the NOE 680-500-HB with the hot glue plugs for testing after a cold front passage. What about other fillers. JB Weld seem like a pain, but how about something like Plastic Wood? Any others?

I pour in sealing wax. Ladle it in with a teaspoon. I colour each pot with a melted wax crayon to make the wax easier to see. It cools to be quite hard.

https://i.imgur.com/r1JzcxZ.jpg

[longbow]

Does that wax stay in the cavity for the flight to the target/berm or does it fall out after the slug leaves the barrel?

That would be easier and neater than hot melt glue! And for the Lyman slugs the cavity is so conical that glue isn't likely to stay in anyway.

I've had hot melt glue tail wads/skirts come out of Lee Drive Key slugs and HB slugs with quite deep and near straight sided cavities. A screw run into the cavity but with the head and a few thread left proud gives the glue tail wad something to hang on to.

Longbow

[smokeeter]

bin using wax as a filler since I started with the lyman 525. all of my slugs retained the wax .

https://i.imgur.com/vPZqPzE.jpg

[a danl]

i have a section of a 12ga barrel from an old cutoff . i use my reloading press for the power i need to swage and compress them in my "sizing die". needed is a flat nose punch which i can screw in where a rifle die seats and anything with a flat where the shell holder goes. you can adjust the die part so that all slugs come out the same height. of course you have to do one at a time, but it's worth it. recovered slugs prove i am doing it well because they show rifleing full length of the slug. if you're using a smooth bore i oversize bigger than bore dia and then take off your bbl of the shotgun and push the slug thru the bore and now you have a slug that will fly true. so far i have killed 4 buck and i don't buy factory anymore , although i still have some , but my confidence is in my reloads. by the way i rollcrimp all my slugs . hope this can help someone.

[Blood Trail]

I’m getting great accuracy without filling the bases.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181124/035f647e0fba1dc19f5f0a44dd4a8c30.jpg


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[longbow]

BT:

That's the Lyman 525 gr. slug (or clone)?

Soft lead or hard lead?

Rifled gun I am guessing...?

Range?

Darn good accuracy for 50 yards and really excellent accuracy if 100 yards!

Longbow

[Blood Trail]

BT:

That's the Lyman 525 gr. slug (or clone)?

Soft lead or hard lead?

Rifled gun I am guessing...?

Range?

Darn good accuracy for 50 yards and really excellent accuracy if 100 yards!

Longbow

LB,

That was the Lyman Clone with pure lead (some Tin added).

Rifles shotgun at 50 yards. I’m trying to make the range tomorrow. I’ll try these at 100 if I do


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