303 British revisited

[sawinredneck]

A friend has an Enfield and he asked me yesterday about reloading it, without knowing better I said it shouldn’t be a problem. A lot of reading later, I’m starting to regret those words!
First and foremost, is it even worth it? He doesn’t shoot much, but would like to shoot more now. But I’m seeing most people get 3-5 reloads before the brass is junk. Then it needs fireformed, neck size only, etc.
I have a 180grn mold for my .308 I think? I can use to help keep costs down, I think he’s wanting to plink and maybe deer hunt a little.
I’ve found the Lee collet neck die set, is that enough or do I really need a body die as well?
Sorry, lots of questions, I had no idea this cartridge was so difficult! Anything else to consider?

[Bigslug]

I'm in the early stages myself (took a while to get molds. . .then deer season occurred. . .delays, distractions, etc...), but there's nothing mysterious going on there: it's a rimmed cartridge that headspaces on the rim, and there's often a generous amount of room at the shoulder to allow chambering under harsh military conditions. If brass life is what you're after, fire-forming, brass dedicated to each firearm, and neck-size-only is going to be the ticket.

I would not expect great results from an "American" .30 cal mold that's dropping in the .309"-.311" range. A later production .303 bore is probably something like .302"-.304" on the bore, and .312"-.314" on the grooves. Earlier ones can be a few thou wider than that.

At present, I have three NOE versions of the same gas checked bullet - the 311299 (for .30-06), 314299, and 316299 (to fit tight and sloppy .303's). Those are conicals - if you're wanting to hunt, custom tweaks to some of the Accurate Molds offerings might be the better bet.

[Grmps]

Mine slugs out at .312

[Outpost75]

My 2-groove Cdn. Long Branch No.4 Mk1* made in 1943 is .316"

Accurate 31-215B fits.

230170

[higgins]

It's not overly difficult, assuming he already knows the basics of rifle reloading and is willing to do some studying before he charges into loading .303. Loading for one rifle simplifies things. The best reasonably-priced brass is Prvi Partizan, headstamped PPU or nny; Greek military headstamped HXP is good too. Get some fired brass. Don't screw the sizing die down to the shellholder; back off about one turn and start turning it down about 1/4 turn until the sized case will just kiss the bolt face when closed, or go down maybe 1/8 turn below that point. By doing that you have sized your case just enough to chamber without oversizing it. From that point on the procedures are the same as for any other rifle.

If he's loading jacketed bullets, which may be a good idea until he gets the hang of things, I'd recommend the .312 bullets (Hornady?) instead of the .310 ones.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Your hesitations about reloading the .303 British for the Lee Enfield rifles have a basis in fact, much as you've described. But, folks have been contending with the drawbacks for many years and the remedies are also much as you've outlined. The L.E. rifles have mostly seen many years of hard service and fired countless rounds of full power military ammunition. The design lacks front locking lugs on the bolt and is kind of springy, so they're often found with excessive headspace. You didn't specify which model of rifle you're going to reload for, but if it's the No. 4 and the headspace is excessive it can often be brought back to specs using a larger bolt head. The No. 1 rifle is not so easily fixed, although it can be done. Again, as already stated, much of the solution lies in starting with a batch of new, quality brass and following the initial loading and firing, to dedicate the fired brass to that one particular rifle and to neck size only on subsequent loadings. Mild loads will extend the life of the brass, but you'll still not get the longevity of brass fired in a Mauser-type rifle. Back in the day, I used it extensively for deer hunting, and my best loads were the 174 gr. Hornady RNSP over 39.3 gr. of H-4895, and the Sierra 150 gr. flat based SP over 41.0 gr. of H-4895. The rifle isn't meant to be a magnum, and real sizzler loads will shorten the life of the brass and probably the rifle's headspace. It makes a very adequate deer rifle. Both of the jacketed bullets I referenced are .312 diameter.

[beemer]

I use the Lee collet die, you might have to partial full length size after a couple of shots. The neck of the chamber can be large so you might have to anneal after a few shots. The Lee collet works the neck less than standard dies. I essentially set the headspace on the shoulder and dedicate the cases to the rifle.

As far as jacketed I use mid range loads, they are more accurate and easier on the cases. I find the Hornady 150 does about as good as any. As far as lead, just make sure it fits. My rifles do seem to do better with a clean chamber.

I have been tinkering with Enfields for over 25 years and they are one of my favorites. They can be fussy but with proper loads and bedding they can fool you.

Dave

[sawinredneck]

To clarify, I’ll be doing the reloading, not him, so it’s a matter of my knowledge of reloading that we are relying on.

[longbow]

Here's another vote for the Lee collet die.

I was full length resizing but the chamber is so much larger than the brass the brass was obviously being worked way to much. Also, since my 4 Lee Enfield's and my son's one all want 0.315" boolits the standard dies size the neck way too much down to 0.311". So even if I set dies to neck size only the necks were still being worked a lot and were so tight they sized some boolits when seated!

I bought a Lee collet die and set it so it sizes necks to 0.313" and now get good brass life and no sizing of cast boolits when seated.

I do have one gun with a slightly tighter chamber and so the bolt is a bit tight to close on a loaded round. I usually full length size for that gun and will segregate brass for it so I can neck size only for it if I shoot it a lot, which so far I haven't.

Longbow

[sawinredneck]

Is the 180 going to be too heavy for caliber? If I recall it drops at .312 then if I PC it?
I dunno, mainly trying to see if it’s worth messing with. How many times are you guys getting out of your brass?

[303Guy]

260 gr might be too heavy for caliber although they worked for me but then those were smooth sides so would be more stable.

https://i.postimg.cc/cLHwZvyX/256gr-I-mold-AUTOSOL-001.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[HangFireW8]

I use the Lee collet die, you might have to partial full length size after a couple of shots. The neck of the chamber can be large so you might have to anneal after a few shots. The Lee collet works the neck less than standard dies. I essentially set the headspace on the shoulder and dedicate the cases to the rifle

Dave hits the nail on the head... on why standard neck sizing dies DO NOT extend brass life. They merely guarantee that the brass will be overworked and fail on the neck, instead of the shoulder.

Why? Standard Neck dies over-resize the neck, then the expander ball expands it greatly again... JUST LIKE A Full Length die!

[nicholst55]

The Redding body die is a useful addition to any die set for this cartridge. The problem may be finding one, as Redding only produces them when they have orders. I had one on back-order for a while with a vendor and then contacted Redding directly. They told me that they don't stock them, but then they must have made a run of them immediately after my letter. My die magically appeared a week or so later.

If you need advice or equipment recommendations, Steve at 303British.com is the man to talk to. He used to be a member here - not sure if he still is. http://303british.com/index.html

[leebuilder]

Is it hard? no, some rifles chew up brass but most dont. Headspace can be an issue, only seen one with bad headspace but have seen many with elongated chambers. You will see split necks from overworked brass and split bases from to many full power reloadings (will happen in the tightest chambers), so get a ruptured case extractor. Most comercial brass is weak and thin. Splits and ruptures are not that bad I dont notice most times till I can't chamber the next round. Size is everything with cast so .314 should be the minimum size boolit mold you should consider. Cast can be problematic but keep with it, I've launched pounds of flies and keyholes, lots of info and support here. J-thingys are fun but getting expensive. Flat base j-thingys fly much better and if your rifles throat is newish, lighters j-thingys will fly real nice under slow burning powders.
I full length size all my 303, I have a few so segregating brass is a headache. I recently got a Lee collet die but havent used it yet.
Only one other thing to consider, its a lot of fun.
Get er done and get that barrel hot!!!!
Be well

[Hick]

Check the chamber before you rule out the Enfield-- they are not all loose. My 1936 build has very little brass growth. In a test with 10 cases full length sized, the shoulder position as-fired changed by only 0.005. You can avoid the problem simply by neck sizing. I do lots more than 6 reloads with no problem and no need to anneal, but I only neck size.

[303Guy]

Now that you mention it, I may have one or two such tight chambered rifles.

Something to consider when shooting cast in two-groove barrels is the bore to groove ratio (not applicable to SMLE's). That pair of narrow grooves are deep and to seal them a large boolit is required but this means a great deal of boolit swaging takes place on firing which can distort the boolit base and trailing edge so flat based boolits may not shoot great. I have a photo of a distorted boolit base somewhere. If the groove is not sealed, flame cutting occurs - I cannot say whether or not such flame cutting has an effect on accuracy. Not applicable to SMLE's though, only the No4 had two-grooves (three of my No4's are two-groove).

Something I found with the Lee Enfield chamber and cast, a shorter fatter boolit fits better due to the size and shape of the throat in relation to the fired case neck ID. A neck fitting boolit with a tapered nose shank can fit up into the throat with no jump.

[Duster340]

Oops. Double post

[Duster340]

Another Lee collet user here. I have great success with Privi 150 gr & 180 gr SPBT as well as Hornady 150 gr SP & 174 gr RNSP Interlocks. Over IMR 3031 and IMR 4895. I plink with my deer loads which are 1gr under the published max load data. So far no issues with case life after 5-6 loadings. Shooting a bubba'd 2 groove No4mk1 with 17" barrel. Hope to put more venison in the freezer again this season with the old girl. ;) The old 303 Brit is still a great round.

[303Guy]

I have great success with Privi 180gr SPBT. Funny thing with them - they are .310 but the shape of the nose (almost semi-round nose) is such that the bullet jump is less than with .313 bullets. I haven't come across them again so I conserve those for hunting. I found some 180gr BT fmj's that fit one of the chambers with minimal jump. They were cheap so if they work in just one of my rifles I will be ahead.

[Multigunner]

I achieved remarkable accuracy when using 150 gr .312 Hornady pointed bullets by seating them to a 3" OAL exactly. This put the crimping groove well above the case mouth.
I prefer not to crimp. A tight neck gives more consistent pull strength than a crimp. this was proven long ago and has held up to the test of time. In my opinion only autoloaders and tube magazine fed rifles require a crimp so long as the neck hasn't become work hardened and loses tension over time. Annealing handles that.

I only size two thirds of the length of the neck and mark the rims of cases on first firing then rotate reloaded cases 180 degrees on the second firing.
This assures that the cases are equally expanded and the bullets are centered when presented to the origin of rifling with no canting. Even a battle weary No.4 can deliver sub MOA groups if the ammo is tailored to the rifle.
Best loads for my guns use a 150 gr bullet at just under 2600 FPS.

[samari46]

I ran into somewhat the same problem when the light went on in my head that the RCBS dies (3 die set) were sizing down my 7.62x54r cases too much. Rather than mess with sending the dies back to get reworked or going to bushing dies I decided to do something I could control. Measured about twenty once fired cases then neck sized those sane 20 cases. The numbers astounded me. And at the time boxer primed 7.62x54r cases were hard to get. So after I had an average between fired and sized cases all 20. I have some 7/8"x14tpi threaded screw stock. Chucked it in my lathe and first drilled a hole smaller than my cast bullet .3135 then reamer the hole and polished the hole with various graded of silicon carbide paper. What I was looking for was to get enough neck tension without overly sizing the case neck. I ended up with .003 on my first shot. Worked great and the Lyman M die was used to just bell the case mouth. My mini neck die isn't hardened no do I have to lube the case neck. This is not a new idea. Mini or short neck dies used to be made years ago. Then for some reason they just disappeared. Maybe because of a limited market.The way it works it you size the neck in the mini die,then use the M die to bell the case mouth. Once your case is primed and charged seat your bullet and seat the bullet. Course now boxer primed cases are easy to find. I bought 15 20 round boxes of Hansen Cartridge Company 7.62x54r ammo. Since my 1935 Finn model 27 ever sees is all cast bullets I should have enough cases till they shovel the dirt on me. If I were to start with this cartridge today I most likely would be using a bushing die if only to play around with different neck tensions. Frank

[beemer]

I solved the problem with the 7.62 X 54 by modifying a 303 collet die. I ordered an extra collet, shortened it to fit the case and made a larger mandrel to fit my cast boolits. I still have to FL occasionally but it still helps.
.

[Baltimoreed]

Don’t have an Enfield but shoot .303 brass in my krag sporter. .30-40 was very hard to get a while ago, not as much now but since the headspace is different enough to matter between the two rifles it’s easier to segregate the brass this way. I use my good Krag brass in my actual Krag rifle. Use a .308 sizer die and neck size for both. Seems to work ok. Loading a 160/180gr pointed gc cast bullet sized to .311.