First Cast NOE 680-500-HB CE1

[Ranch Dog]

The NOE 680-500-HB CE1 arrived yesterday afternoon. As soon as my morning chores where complete (kind of) I jumped right into casting slugs. I'm simple and just follow Al's instructions to the letter. I lubed the sprue plate, block and hollow base pins with NRA 50/50 stick wax (just a touch each). I smoked everything well with a Bic lighter.

Using a Lee pot, the mould dropped usable slugs immediately. Slugs are big, and they can get the mold warm. No problem, placing the closed blocks on a damp cloth for a few seconds releases the heat immediately. The slug on the right was hot but not sticking; I didn't have any of them stick.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/NOE/680-500-HB_CE1/680-500-HB_CE1_02.jpg

I did not need to pop the mould to release the slugs. My gloved hand could cut the sprue without effort. Once open, rotating the mould blocks clockwise from your view causes the hollow base pins to slide out, and the heavy slugs immediately depart the pins. Be sure you have the blocks positioned where you want the slugs to land.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/NOE/680-500-HB_CE1/680-500-HB_CE1_03.jpg

I have two column wads that I wanted to use out of many on hand. They both fit the height of the slug well, but the thin petals on Clay Buster SW250 slug wad are too thin for a tight fit.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/NOE/680-500-HB_CE1/680-500-HB_CE1_CB-SW250.jpg

It looks like the Federal 12S3 is perfect with my Marlin 512.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/NOE/680-500-HB_CE1/680-500-HB_CE1_Federal_12S3.jpg

I'm going a different route with the alloy than most. So far the best 100-yards groups have come with Lightfield factory ammo and their super hard lead slug. 1.2XX MOA at 100-yards consistantly. I cast these with the same alloy that I use for my hunting bullets, a 60/40 linotype/wheel weight mix and then water quenched them. They are 21 BHN as the sit now and will be 29 in 48 hours. I've never had a rifle bullet with this allpy mix fail and, and I doubt this projectile will either.

Diameter as cast was .682" and the weight with the 60/40 alloy is 490-grains.

[longbow]

If you are inclined to use the Claybuster wads a wrap or two of appropriate paper thickness will fix that fit. I intentionally size my Lee slugs down to remove the extreme taper (doesn't suit Winchester wads anyway) then paper patch back up to good fit to bore... this being for smoothbore but it should work as well for rifled gun. Accuracy is much improved.

Longbow

[Ranch Dog]

Before dark, I went out and shot three of them with 25.5-grains of International and the Federal 12S3 wad. The wads collapsed into the tail feathers but despite that, at 50-yards they shot a 3" group. The hollow bases are now all filled with glue; I bumped the load up to 26-grains to help the hull fill and the crimp sealed up nice and tight.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/NOE/680-500-HB_CE1/680-500-HB_CE1_Federal_12S3_02.jpg

I'm dropping charges with the Lee Deluxe Perfect Powder Measure and crimping the hull on the Load-All II.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/NOE/680-500-HB_CE1/680-500-HB_CE1_Federal_12S3_03.jpg

The crimp is being started by feel, but I missed it a bit mid-run and went too deep on the hull by itself.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/NOE/680-500-HB_CE1/680-500-HB_CE1_Federal_12S3_04.jpg

Pondered that for a bit and placed a BPI X12X Gas Seal in the priming well and it stops the press down stroke just perfect for the 3" hull crimp fold!

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/NOE/680-500-HB_CE1/680-500-HB_CE1_Federal_12S3_05.jpg

Will see how these do tomorrow.

[Ranch Dog]

If you are inclined to use the Claybuster wads a wrap or two of appropriate paper thickness will fix that fit. I intentionally size my Lee slugs down to remove the extreme taper (doesn't suit Winchester wads anyway) then paper patch back up to good fit to bore... this being for smoothbore but it should work as well for rifled gun. Accuracy is much improved.
If the accuracy is there, I'd like to stick with the 12S3. The strut has always looked good enough to reuse where the strut of the CB250-SW has always been spent.

When I run low on the 12S3, I will switch to the ClayBuster CB2118-12.

[6pt-sika]

Does the mold come with an additional set of pins so you can change to solid base ?

[W.R.Buchanan]

^^^^yes^^^^

Randy

[Ranch Dog]

Does the mold come with an additional set of pins so you can change to solid base ?


^^^^yes^^^^
It would be ashame not to give solids a try as well!

[W.R.Buchanan]

If I get my Rifled barrel for my A5 they will get tested.

But I have an idea about the wads....

Mike, you are complaining that the bases of the wads collapse? Why not fill the wad's "strut area" with hot glue? That would essentially make them solid from the gas seal/base of the wad all the way to the base of the shot cup.

I think wrapping them with a piece of notebook paper or clear tape with a couple of holes for fill and vent might just work.

After what I saw shooting Slugs and Buckshot at Front Sight the wads go thru the targets right along with the shot out to 35 yards.

Filled with hot glue they'd probably be lethal as well.

I also found this load data for these slugs. I guess it originally came form a Lyman Manual.

https://www.shootersforum.com/shotguns-shotgunning-shotshell-reloading/24294-load-data-lyman-sabot-slug.html


I'm waiting for the lead to melt so I can go out and cast some more slugs.

Randy

[longbow]

I'd be careful playing with the cushion leg! No pressure testing equipment here but having looked through about every bit of load info I could find and having bought BPI's short hull loading info, it appears that removing a cushion leg or changing from soft cushion leg to solid or much stiffer leg can increase pressures. My feeling is that if the recipe is designed for a cushion leg and that give isn't there at ignition then it is similar to reducing case volume and pressure jumps considerably. From what I have looked at this seems to be more of an issue with fast powders than slow powders... and it is just my opinion based on cross referencing load data. It would be nice to get some pressure testing done to see if it is something to be wary of.

I can say that some of my slug loads that replaced a wad column with slug and no or less cushion leg but equal payload resulted in sticky extraction. I only use slow powder like Blue Dot now for more or less solid wad columns.

FWIW

Longbow

[gpidaho]

Thanks for the posts about the new Noe mould. Al shipped mine today. I'm looking forward to trying this in both my NEF rifled barrel and a smooth bore Savage=Stevens. Gp

[6pt-sika]

It would be ashame not to give solids a try as well!

I’m thinking I just might have to get a mold so I can try the solid base .

[Ranch Dog]

I’m thinking I just might have to get a mold so I can try the solid base .
I spoke with Al today. On Monday, he started with 25 of each, two and four cavity, and was down to five total.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yeah I was pretty sure after these threads it would be pretty popular. Mihec never responded to my request and the Lyman moulds are only 1 cav. Al took a chance and will likely have a steady following on this one.

I'm a big airgun shooter and this slug is basically a 500 gr Air Gun Pellet. Only this one at 1280 fps has a TKO of 62! The Blue Dot loads listed in the Lyman Load Data from above, have this slug at 1500 fps. which yields a TKO of 84 ! That should be good enough for just about anything you'd run into ? I'm still dreaming of the Driven Boar Hunts in Croatia. The .177 cal airgun pellet has a TKO of .12! Good enough for Neco Wafers at 10 meters!

I managed to bang out 95 of them today and loaded 25 in AA hulls, will shoot them soon, maybe tomorrow. I used the Blue Clay Buster Slug Wads and 23 gr of Unique, Win. primers.

If you wipe these slugs with a Blue Paper Shop Towel they polish up real nice.

Randy

[Ranch Dog]

My company has left so I hope to shoot them today. One sample string with the hot glue base and another with the Plastic Wood filled base.

[gpidaho]

My company has left so I hope to shoot them today. One sample string with the hot glue base and another with the Plastic Wood filled base.
Must have been a rough visit! One of those big slugs is the last thing I'd want to be shot with. LOL Gp

[Ranch Dog]

Must have been a rough visit! One of those big slugs is the last thing I'd want to be shot with. LOL Gp
Yeah, I worded that just right! Na... it was a good visit!

[6pt-sika]

Let me first say I don't "need" one of these !

However …………………………………………….. ,

I just ordered a 4 cavity LOL's !

[Markopolo]

Let me first say I don't "need" one of these !

However …………………………………………….. ,

I just ordered a 4 cavity LOL's !

I do believe there could be a 12 step program for this...

[6pt-sika]

I do believe there could be a 12 step program for this...

The one “possible” saving grace is that I now have versions of the Lyman sabot slug from various sources for the 10 , 12 , 16 and 20 gauges . I have a rather nice Browning Superposed 28 gauge skeet gun of 1970 vintage but I just don’t think I wanna try slugs in it , however if I ever get a Parker VH/VHE 28 gauge I just might try some 28 gauge slugs . This season I’ve got my Parker GH 16 gauge ready to go with the Lyman sabot style slugs and next in line is my little Parker VHE 20 gauge using an actual Lyman Sabot slug . Now of course in my smoothbores I hold shots to 35 or so yards .

[W.R.Buchanan]

6pt: If that B 25 is Fixed Skeet Choke it will probably be just fine as long as your payloads don't fit super tight.. Skeet Choke is generally only a .005 restriction over Cylinder Bore.

Plus that at 35 or less the accuracy can't suffer enough to make it ineffective.

Randy

Randy

[6pt-sika]

6pt: If that B 25 is Fixed Skeet Choke it will probably be just fine as long as your payloads don't fit super tight.. Skeet Choke is generally only a .005 restriction over Cylinder Bore.

Plus that at 35 or less the accuracy can't suffer enough to make it ineffective.

Randy

Randy

Choke has nothing to do with it . My little 28 is in far to fine a shape to chance scratching it up in a tree stand . Little guns 98%+ same for the little matching 410 . Of course if I ever get a Parker 28 gauge original in decent shape I’ll have more tied up in it then I do in the 28 and 410 Superposed’s combined ��

[W.R.Buchanan]

A friends mother had a B25 28 ga she used every year for doves at their ranch which I got to shoot at. Do you have a separate gun in .410 or interchangeable barrels? I just saw a B25 4 barrel skeet set at the last gun show here in Ventura. The guy wanted $5500 for the cased set which was a fair price.

I have a Citori Sporting Clays Edition .410 with 32" bbls. I love that gun!

Randy

[Moonie]

Yeah I was pretty sure after these threads it would be pretty popular. Mihec never responded to my request

What request was that? Mihec already makes one of these molds, in fact he makes both a 2 cavity just like this and a 2 cavity that is full 12 guage bore diameter, both in brass. I have the one that uses wads.

https://www.mp-molds.com/e-shop/molds/shot-gun-molds

[6pt-sika]

A friends mother had a B25 28 ga she used every year for doves at their ranch which I got to shoot at. Do you have a separate gun in .410 or interchangeable barrels? I just saw a B25 4 barrel skeet set at the last gun show here in Ventura. The guy wanted $5500 for the cased set which was a fair price.

I have a Citori Sporting Clays Edition .410 with 32" bbls. I love that gun!

Randy

I have a 1965 12 gauge 28” skeet , a 1967 12 gauge 26 1/2” skeet , a 1969 12 magnum 30” , a 1951 20 gauge 28” field , a 1963 20 gauge 26 1/2” skeet , a 1970 28 gauge 28” skeet and a 1970 410 26 1/2” skeet . I’d still like a 32” Broadway , an early double trigger field gun and a 20 gauge field with 3” chambers , all Belgium guns of course. I used to have a couple Remington Model 32 skeets , I’d like to find another 32 skeet with a solid rib , add a 32 trap with a solid rib and find an early 32 double trigger square tang . I have a collector friend that’s walked into two Remington 32 double trigger field guns in the last four months . Incidentally the Superposed 4 barrel sets are quite nice , however if I were looking for a barrel set I’d be more inclined to go for a 3 barrel set 20-28-410 since it’s on the smaller frame . Pretty much the same reason I like the Krieghoff K-20 . But you’d never see me turn down a K-32 or a K-80 .

[6pt-sika]

What request was that? Mihec already makes one of these molds, in fact he makes both a 2 cavity just like this and a 2 cavity that is full 12 guage bore diameter, both in brass. I have the one that uses wads.

https://www.mp-molds.com/e-shop/molds/shot-gun-molds
I suggest you check your link , Mihec is sold out . I had looked a week or two ago and he was out when I looked .

[Moonie]

I suggest you check your link , Mihec is sold out . I had looked a week or two ago and he was out when I looked .

That proves what was already said, they are very popular...

[longbow]

I wouldn't mind the full bore version myself but those slug moulds were a group buy several years ago.

I do not believe they have been rerun since.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I sent an inquiry thru the Mihec website asking about availability of that mould about a week before I contacted Al Nelson. I have never gotten a response and there was no stock when I inquired, that's why I inquired. I really wanted one of those moulds.

There still is no stock.

6pt: I have a friend who has the 3 barrel K20 set and it's not the cheap set. Right at $35K. Highly engraved and the gun is alive when you pick it up. I had to stuff a rag in my mouth so I didn't drool on it. I really like the Krieghoff guns. When I win the lottery I will be stocking up.

Sounds like you are pretty enamored with Browning shotguns, or at least your inventory would suggest that . :mrgreen:

Randy

[6pt-sika]

6pt: I have a friend who has the 3 barrel K20 set and it's not the cheap set. Right at $35K. Highly engraved and the gun is alive when you pick it up. I had to stuff a rag in my mouth so I didn't drool on it. I really like the Krieghoff guns. When I win the lottery I will be stocking up.

Sounds like you are pretty enamored with Browning shotguns, or at least your inventory would suggest that . :mrgreen:

Randy

I’ve had a pair of K-32’s one was a three barrel tube set I put together . Had a 28” skeet barrel with Kolar AAA tubes , a K-80 unsingle barrel for 16 yard and handicap and lastly a 32” vandalia rib for trap doubles . It also had K-80 Bavarian Grade wood with a medium Monte Carlo . Later I acquired a second year K-32 that was pretty much made from Remington 32 parts . Over the years I’ve shot a number of K-80’s and a few K-20’s . I’ve shot A LOT of skeet and trap birds in my lifetime and I always seemed to do a better job with a Krieghoff .

[W.R.Buchanan]

I kinda got that you were a Clay bird shooter. Something about those guns you have suggests that.

I went to Pacific Sales in Azusa CA and the salesman there walked me thru the Krieghoff line. Funny how all of the various stocks and other gun parts can fit you directly to the gun. Everything on the guns is interchangeable.

For now I have to settle for my Citori XT and my Citori .410.

Randy

[Ranch Dog]

I've been tied up for a week. So, has anyone done any shooting with the 680-500-HB?

[6pt-sika]

I've been tied up for a week. So, has anyone done any shooting with the 680-500-HB?

As a matter of fact I just (it’s sunday) returned from the post office with my 4 cavity mold . Monday I’ll try and make 50 HB and 50 solid base . Granted none I cast will be fired in a rifled barrel . But I’m curiouse to see how the solid base does in some of my old doubles .

[Ranch Dog]

While I've been with my dad, I've been pondering the torn and crushed wad petals with this pellet design. I think it might be from friction forcing the petals off the narrow front "band" and folding them into the supported region in the middle of the design. I've spent some time looking for a wad with a solid, cup, but I doubt there would be one in that wads are designed to "petal" open to disperse shot. I wish I would not have given away my 3D printer. I would figure out two "halves" to fill the center section, held together with a band of tape (like the sabot on the Lightfield), and then a plug for the hollow base.

The weather has turned too foul to shoot.

[6pt-sika]

While I've been with my dad, I've been pondering the torn and crushed wad petals with this pellet design. I think it might be from friction forcing the petals off the narrow front "band" and folding them into the supported region in the middle of the design. I've spent some time looking for a wad with a solid, cup, but I doubt there would be one in that wads are designed to "petal" open to disperse shot. I wish I would not have given away my 3D printer. I would figure out two "halves" to fill the center section, held together with a band of tape (like the sabot on the Lightfield), and then a plug for the hollow base.

The weather has turned too foul to shoot.
If wads collapsing is a problem how about fiber wads under and some sort of shot cup to nestle the slug in .

[6pt-sika]

RD did you make any molds for the 40 S&W / 10mm ?

[Ranch Dog]

If wads collapsing is a problem how about fiber wads under and some sort of shot cup to nestle the slug in .
Well, that is my next step. I've been thinking about the BPI 0729012 and LBC30. You can cut the unslit cups to length with a razor blade.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/NOE/680-500-HB_CE1/components/0729012.jpg https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/NOE/680-500-HB_CE1/components/lbc30.jpg

I need to go back through the dimensions of these wads, in that I've looked at so many, and make sure they will work with the diameter of the slugs (both Lee and the NOE/Lyman). I've also thought about drilling a small hole (3/16"?) up through the base center, then filling the base of the slugs with hot glue, and sliding the trimmed cup over the slug. It would not bother me if the tail feathers stayed on for the journey to the berm. The departing of such, seems to be the first upset that influences all the CG/CP talk we have been through.

What I need to do, is gather up all the bags of wads that I've bought, take them up to a place that ranchers have started shooting trap, and see if I can sell them for half of what I got in them. Some, I haven't shot. I've taken one wad out, measured it, put it back in, and put it in storage. If I can't recover some money from the wads, my future funds will be spent on Sabot Techonologies pressure wads.


RD did you make any molds for the 40 S&W / 10mm ?
No, never worked with either.

[Ranch Dog]

Doesn't look like the two cups mentioned above will work.

Diameter: .723"
Wall Thickness: .057"

Too bad the thickness is not half of the value, it would be near perfect. Bummer.

[Ranch Dog]

Too bad the thickness is not half of the value, it would be near perfect.
Given the OD, even half would be too much as the NOE would not slide in. So, at a bit of a standstill with this slug at 100-yards.

[6pt-sika]

Given the OD, even half would be too much as the NOE would not slide in. So, at a bit of a standstill with this slug at 100-yards.

FWIW , I took a bunch of BikerBeans .730” 730 grain slugs and used them in my Parker 10 gauge doubles . I was more worried about them not being to tight thru the chokes as I was about nominal bore fit . Anyway I ended up taking an SP-10 wad removing the petals , seating what was left and taking a .010” Mylar wrap putting it around the slug seating the slug folding the crimp . Bear in mind these are mostly full choke barrels that measure .745-.755” at the muzzle . And amazingly that did fairly well .

[Ranch Dog]

Interesting! When I was a kid in the mid-sixties, I bought a big box of slugs for my Sear Roebuck single-shot 20 guage with a full choke. Kids could walk in and buy that stuff back then. They shot real good on small critters at close range. So, my little brother decided he would shoot a buck with one. My dad was sitting with him up in a tree and a large buck walked in about 55-yards. This was in the mid-sixties and I'll never forget what my dad said about it as he observed from behind by brother. "That durn slug did a complete corkscrew around that buck!" Very much what I'm seeing with the Lee & Lyman now.

[longbow]

I've mentioned this before but for smoothbore gun. turbo1889 posted some years ago that the Lyman sabot slug would go unstable if launched supersonic when velocity dropped to transonic. I think that was for smoothbore gun though. turbo said if was because of the very blunt wadcutter nose.

As for fit, this is the big issue with shotgun slugs. Finding the correct wad fit fit to bore then the bores vary all over the place... at least in smoothbore. Ajay has posted a tremendous amount of into on slug fits with different wads. He is mostly a 20 gauge guy but he has posted a lot of info on both the Lee slugs and Lyman 525 gr. slugs as well. Both are about the same size and tapered but if you check links below there are several posts specifically about the Lyman 525 gr. slug and wad fit. I just scanned through and copied links and posts that may be helpful (could be some repeat info):

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?150140-VdoMemorie-Blazing-Sabot!/page6&highlight=fit+slug
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?150140-VdoMemorie-Blazing-Sabot!/page7&highlight=fit+slug

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?150140-VdoMemorie-Blazing-Sabot!/page11&highlight=fit+slug

check post 216 above.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?150140-VdoMemorie-Blazing-Sabot!/page27&highlight=fit+slug

check post 529 above.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?150140-VdoMemorie-Blazing-Sabot!/page31&highlight=fit+slug

check posts 604 and 607 above.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?150140-VdoMemorie-Blazing-Sabot!/page33&highlight=fit+slug

check posts 649 and 650 above.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?150140-VdoMemorie-Blazing-Sabot!/page34&highlight=fit+slug

check posts 660 and 669 above.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?150140-VdoMemorie-Blazing-Sabot!/page36&highlight=fit+slug

check posts 705 and 706 above.

It seems that smoothbore bore diameter vary considerably but that for many rifled guns 0.727" seems to be a common groove diameter. I have read though that the H&R USH had large groove diameter and Mossberg at 0.730" but that is hearsay, as I haven't measured them myself. Have you slugged your Marlin 512?

Good luck!

Longbow

[Ranch Dog]

Thanks, Longbow. I used an inside micrometer on both the Marlin & Mossberg. The Mossberg is .730" and the Marlin .731". I checked each pair of bands around the bore, about an inch inside the muzzle, and all were equal. At least they are round.

Thanks, also for the links. I will read through them. I will approach these with caution as similar reading for the Lee has my room stacked with about $150 ~ $160 worth of wads that others said were "great" and I found unacceptable. Honestly, I need to see some acceptable 100-yard testing before I return to traditonal column wads. I'm going to call BPI about the solid cups in just a bit to verify those posted dimension.

The weather probably won't lift for a day or two, but when it does, I'm going send the bullets and Hammerhead sabots downrange.

[Ranch Dog]

Well, that is my next step. I've been thinking about the BPI 0729012 and LBC30. You can cut the unslit cups to length with a razor blade.
Well, heck. Called BPI and apparently they keep all their offerings available for the fellows that answer the phone. The fellow on the phone pulled one off the shelf and measured the wall thickness with a caliper. Given the outside diameter, the Lee nor the Lyman will fit inside.

[6pt-sika]

I cast 52 slugs today all solid base and all of 50% WW’s and 50% pure . Haven’t bothered to weigh any yet . Hopefully I can get a few loaded Wednesday and I’ll try them off the hood of the truck at my house . Hopefully 6 shots at 25 and if they don’t look to bad I’ll try six more at 50 . Why six you might ask ? , I’ll be using a double barrel and I like to shoot three from the right at one target and three from the left at a different target .

[W.R.Buchanan]

The weather has turned too foul to shoot.

When I was in Texas during my time the the USAF the accepted point about the weather was,,, "If you don't like it,,, just wait 20 minutes!"

Incidentally my Cat really likes your Dog Avatar. But he just can't seem to catch it.

On another note: it seems that my new Browning Smooth Bore Slug Barrel is supposed to shoot pretty well with Slugs with lands on them.

The fact that it is choked to .715 at the muzzle doesn't seem to be a deterrent. I know that my Lyman Slugs with the CG blue wads won't fit in the muzzle as the wad slug combo measures .722 so there will be Sheared wad petals with that barrel.

Hopefully they will work with the rifled barrel I picked up today..

I just have to shoot this thing with various loads and see what happens.

Randy

[Ranch Dog]

When I was in Texas during my time the the USAF the accepted point about the weather was,,, "If you don't like it,,, just wait 20 minutes!"
And durned if it didn't. The rain stopped long enough for me to get out and shoot the a few Hammerheads and then the all the oddball slug loads that have accumulated on my bench.


Incidentally my Cat really likes your Dog Avatar. But he just can't seem to catch it.
Crazy!