RCBS Lube sizer and issues

[wendyj]

I bought this about 4 months ago. It done a great job with Carnuba Blue and sizing 45 colt bullets. I am noticing with Bac lube that I am really having to bear down on the handle and usually a full turn and 1/2 to get lube into the bullet cast from the NOE mold. It wasn't as hard with the Carnuba Blue as it is now. Tried the Lyman heater under it and may help a small amount but not much. I am having to stand up and get some really forceful leverage on the 45-70 bullets. The rings and threads are all ok and I keep the rings lubed. Don't have it in front of me but I am sizing this down about 3 thousandths from cast size.

Got an older Lyman 450 and the ratchet stripped out trying to get lube in the grooves with it. Room is at 74 degrees at all times. Any advise or is it just take this much force. Sizing die is a Lyman.

[KenT7021]

It takes a while for one of the heaters to warm the lube up.Try a propane torch to heat the lube sizer up.Try running the bullet deeper into the sizing die.

[dragon813gt]

Lube is to cold/hard. Let the heater run longer and try again. I know WL says some of their lives don’t require heat. I’ve found they all work better w/ some heat applied. Unless it’s summer and my garage is 85+.

[ShooterAZ]

There really shouldn't be much difference between those two lubes as far as effort to size. If anything, the BAC should be a little softer...

[wendyj]

The mold is casting at around .462 and I am sizing at .459
I think I left the heater on for about 30 minutes until the base was warm to the touch. I haven't done any since late fall but noticed it last couple of weeks. Heat vent from the house is not too far away from both sizers. I took the dies out and cleaned just in case that might be an issue but doesn't seem to help. Will try running a little deeper and see if that helps.

[brass410]

had a similar problem with my RCBS luber took apart and found part of a lube stick wrapper (I presume, it was plastic) piled up in the gallery that feeds lube to the die causing a restriction works great now. Keep digging you'll be able to resolve the problem these are pretty simple to fix pieces of equipment.

[BudRow]

Remove the center/ejector pin up and out of the die. Do this with a coat hanger wire or some such stiff probe - no need to remove die from sizer. Then turn heater on or hair drier to warm the sizer up. Crank lube feed screw a couple turns or better and purge lube through all the lube ports till you are sure every thing flows easy. Reassemble. Good luck!

[gnostic]

I've had a hard time going down .002 with water dropped wheel weights. I use a heat gun or let the Lube Matic 11 sit in the sun for a while, to get my lube flowing. Using too much force will damage any lube sizer. If I'm going down more than .002, I use Lee push through dies and a RCBS Jr. press, that will put up with almost anything...

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Sounds like two problems?

Let's first look at the problem of sizing a 462 down to 459
depending on how hard the alloy is, that can take a lot of force.
As mentioned about, you might want to use a push through sizer in a strong reloading press to size them down, then run them through the RCBS to just lube the boolits.

Second, if you are having lube issues and heat isn't helping, there must be something in lube or lubesizer restricting flow, removing the lube and cleaning the lubesizer may be necessary.

[wendyj]

Water quenched wheel weights. With gas check.

[243winxb]

Room temperature is said to be 72 f degrees. (Internet)

I found the 50/50 needed more heat then 72 degrees.
Melt Temperatures:
Lube working temp melt temp
50/50 room temp 162°F
BAC room temp 162°F
2500 room temp 162°F
Carnauba Red 100°F 162°F
Commercial 160 105-130°F 165°F
Commercial 190 130-155°F 190°F https://www.lsstuff.com/faqs

The current 50/50 is harder then the old Alox blend, i cant use it in my Lyman 450.


The traditional NRA forumula for 50-50 lube Is 50% BeesWax and 50% Alox 2138F.
Alox 2138F is no longer made. Alox 350 is the current replacement.
Alox 350 can be mixed with 6-7% Micro Wax to get an approximation of Alox 2138F.
Your mix of of Alox 350 and micro wax can now be mixed with 50% Beeswax to make 50-50 lube.

[ShooterAZ]

Water quenched wheel weights. With gas check.

My suggestion is to first make sure the lube flow in not compromised in some way. The second suggestion would be to not water quench the boolits. Maybe could try that and see what happens.

[243winxb]

From Midwayusa .

[243winxb]

Contact them with the problem. I was offered an exchange .https://www.lsstuff.com/contact-us

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?231679-Ideas-needed-now-to-soften-modify-White-Label-Lube-50-50

In the winter, i steal the wifes heating pad.

[EDG]

Those bullets are too large in diameter when they are that hard for your lube sizer. Size to .460 or .461. Better yet size to .460 and use a 20-1 alloy. If all you have is wheel weights DO NOT QUENCH. Both quenching and a gas check is like a belt and suspenders. I have been shooting the 45-70 since about 1972. I do not use either gas checks or hard bullets. I use 20 parts lead to 1 part tin.


Water quenched wheel weights. With gas check.

[dragon813gt]

Water quenched wheel weights. With gas check.

If you’re water quenching then you need to size immediately after casting. You’re attempting to size them down a lot. Size in smaller steps if you can. If you let them sit for a prolonged period they’re going to harden and as you found out require a lot of force to size.

[243winxb]

forceful leverage on the 45-70 bullets.
This could be a die problem? A new die didn't have the right taper in the mouth. The bevel seemed to be missing. The .360" diameter bullet started hard into the .358" die. When the lube groove got deeper into the die, the pressure on the lever was a lot less. But became harder again past the lube groove.

I contacted Lyman and they sent a new die, no charge. Great customer service.

You may have 2 problems.

Extra hard lube and a bad die?

[JCherry]

EDG & dragon813gt have the problem identified. I oven temper wheel weight alloy 30 caliber bullets just below the slump temperature and then quench, if I do not check and size them right away they are difficult to run through the sizer. Either check and size your bullets right away or stop water quenching them and your problem will go away. There is nothing wrong with your die or lube.

Have fun,

JCherry

[wendyj]

These have been sitting for around 2 weeks since I cast them. May be my issue. Got a NOE sizer so will order a new bottom sizer from Al today.

[wendyj]

Got my NOE sizer from Al yesterday. Sprayed a little one shot on the bullets and ran easy through his set up. Put back in RCBS lube sizer and lubing fine. I think the Lyman sizing die was having a hard time going from.462 to.459 Two steps but worth it.

[DocSavage]

I had some bullets for a 357 mag made of monotype,sizing them to .358 I thought I was going to snap the press off the bench.

[David2011]

Oh, NO! Monotype .357s will shatter, disintegrate and turn to dust on impact with almost anything! Haven’t you ever read that? I had but had to try for myself. I shot a previously killed sow, about 200 pounds, with a Monotype 250 KT. Entry was the left shoulder and exit was right ham, almost 2 feet through the pig. The exit hole was clean and round so I don’t think the boolit broke up. It went into the ground and was not recovered.

I’ve had boolits become much harder from sitting around for a while before sizing as well. I try to size promptly after casting now. When they’re powder coated the heat might be annealing them because they size very easily. Part of that is the PC reducing friction but the metal seems to not be as hard. I’ll try to remember to test the hardness after powder coating net batch.

[gwpercle]

Water quenched wheel weights. With gas check.

That's part of the problem. Sizing hardened boolits is tough on machine .
Size them air cooled while they are soft , then heat boolits in an oven and quench to harden , then lube without sizing .

[HangFireW8]

Size water quenched wheel weights within 3 days and they are not too bad. After 2 weeks it can be tough going.

[tazman]

I use range scrap for most of my pistol/revolver boolits. I water drop right out of the mold more for convenience than the extra hardness it gives. It takes a few days for them to fully harden. I try to size them during the first 2 days before they reach full hardness. Right after casting, I can scratch the surface of the boolits easily with my fingernail. After a few days, not so much.
Luckily, all my molds drop very near the size I want them to be so I don't need to reduce diameter very much.

[DocSavage]

I had some bullets for a 357 mag made of monotype,sizing them to .358 I thought I was going to snap the press off the bench.
These were from a batch that were unsized that I bought from a friend along with molds and a Lyman lube/sizer,

[tazman]

These were from a batch that were unsized that I bought from a friend along with molds and a Lyman lube/sizer,

Doc---You didn't mention how much you were reducing the diameter. How large are they to start with?
If you are trying to size hardened boolits more than about .002 that may be the issue.
You may need to do the same thing that the OP did to cure the issue.

[midnight]

I can't see what the hardness of the bullet or the amount you want to reduce it has anything to do with the flow of lube into the grooves which was the OP's problem. I use a heater under all of my sizers. Easy for me to say because I make my own. I put a rheostat in the line to control temp once it warms up. Heat should be on full blast for 30 min. before backing it off. You can shorten that 30 min. by using a hair drier on the sizer. For us bald guys, I just picked up a new unused drier for $1.00 at a rummage sale. As for pressing the bullet into the die, the only solution is to size down less, a softer bullet or both.

Bob

[Land Owner]

midnight, the lead that used to be 0.462" in diameter, which is now squeezed down to 0.459" in diameter (a 1.3% reduction in cross sectional area) had to go somewhere and I surmise it went into either lengthening the boolit or was "squished" into the lube grooves (the least resistance alternative), giving LESS room for the lube - not that that alone accounts for the hardness of the lube to flow. The lube also "gasses off" and get dryer with age making it harder to flow, even when heated.

[fa38]

I may be all wet but if the sizing die is a RCBS die in that Lyman lube sizer it may be that the single line of holes in the die line up with a driving band on the bullet restricting the lube flow. Try running the bullet a bit deeper or less deep in the die.

[wendyj]

I have set it lower and higher. Either lube in excess on base or nose. The adjustment works ok. I have a heater under it but that was no help. After using the collet in sizer from NOE and sizing down first and then lubing it has been a piece of cake. Sizing .003 down with hardened lead set for 3-4 weeks was biggest issue. The Lyman wouldn't do it at all. Broke some of the lugs ratchet goes on after 20 bullets or so. Older 450 model. It now does only pistol bullets. Sizing die is a 2 hole. I think it was a Lyman when I ordered it.

[parkerhale1200]

Sorry to barche in, but i water drop al my boolits and with gc, no problem to size after even when they become to there full hardness.
Even 40 bhn is no problem with cu gs.
But its true, size before they age to harden out, cous if you size when they are harden out, you can wait again to let them harden them over time again.

I think your problem is indeed 2 things A setting B size(c brand)

A: play around to get your boolit deeper(OR less deep) into the die so its going to lube into the groves of the boolit, and thus dont need so much pressure to lower its friction and or to push the lube in to the lube groves. also give a better lubrication to your die walls and boolit outer rims.

B: the max I size down is in general .002, i can imagine that sizing .003 or even 005 down would require more strength. this is more to the swaging section.
I have a mold for my 38 that drops at 356, and i size at 356, no power needed, if i take a mold that drops at 358, i have to push.(340 not doable)
Regarding gaschecks: for when i need a gc, i first put on the check then i size, after a 500 or so then i lube.
Reason is simple, the checks wil stay on better and there is no copper or alu shaving in the die, because the lube wants to go even under the gc, and will let the check "flare up" a little, as you going to bring the boolit up again it will shave off a piece of gc and jam the rod inside the die, so more force is needed.

(C):sorry I am no Lyman fan, recently (2018, April) i bought a new sizer die for my 223, they run out of rcbs, so i bought a Lyman, into an rcbs lubasizer, asking for problems? not really, the die was to "short" to "pop" them out, and after some irritating moments i toke the die to a degrease bath, and then polish it with 1600 grid paper, the inner rod, and polish the lube holes inside the die for possible machine burs from the factory, problems solved, running smooth now.
Encountered this problem with rcbs also.one time...Monday morning die.

When i do only the check crimping, the work get a little bit harder due to friction, cous there is no lube.
But i dont have any shavings that makes me must work harder.
Maybe put your castings first into a slight bigger die to make it easier, work in a 3 step proses
Size down a bit, put on check and size down more and then lube.
What you want is to much, i am afraid, i would also like to downsize a 452 to 429 in one go

I hope this blabla will make you understand the process, sorry for my bad grammatical and english.
And this was just a short version of size and lube, sorry

With best regards and i hope i was of any help. First learn to crawl then learn to walk, them learn to run, then learn to take it easy and enjoy

[parkerhale1200]

I have a mold for my 38 that drops at 356, and i size at 356, no power needed, if i take a mold that drops at 358, i have to push.(340 not doable)

no 340 but 360.....

I meant (360) sorry is more black powder! and no high velocitie nitro powder

[Static line]

I just sized and lubed about 300, 270 gr. wfngc 44 cal. bullets casted with 100% COWW and air cooled through my RCBS LAM2 with BAC from .434" to .431" and no problems.I started with a new stick of BAC in a cleaned out reservoir so I did have to use the heater plate to get it going,but then I just unplugged the heater after the flow began and continued on. Didn't take a great deal of force to work either the lube pressure handle or the sizing handle at all.I only have to move my lube pressure handle about a 1/2 inch each time,if that to get lube into the grooves.Make sure you are turning your pressure handle the correct way ( counter clock wise). I screwed mine clockwise one time,not thinking, and that presented a whole new set of problems.