No Lead In My Range Scrap?

[johntown]

I recently sifted for range scrap using a homemade sifter out of wire mesh. I shovel the scrap into the mesh, sifted, and dumped the scrap into a bucket. Now I can't get the lead to melt and the junk to float to the top. I leave the burner running with a lid on the cast iron pot, but it keeps flaming up and smoking but no lead appears to be at the bottom of the pot? I think the smoke and smell are caused by clay pigeons, but I'm unsure why I'm not getting any lead in my pot. Is this a process that takes hours vs 30-45 min for pure lead?

[Hossfly]

If they’re Fmj you will have to cut or bust em open to get the lead to flow out cause they’re sealed in if not open at the base.

[Markopolo]

I use the same method as you except I screen the debri and toss the bullets alone into a bucket. I could screen about 2 shovels at a time in my rocker box..but I picked bullets out, and didn’t allow any other debri... just wait till you accidentally get a live round in one of them. Don’t ask me how I know... lol

[Rcmaveric]

It takes a bit. I like to put about 2 inch layer of lead in the bottom of the pot. Get it molten. Then toss in the scraps. All that debris has to get to over 700 degrees. Take a long while with an empty pot.

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[Dusty Bannister]

About how many pounds of scrap are you trying to melt at one time? Do you have any lead in the bottom of the pot to help with heat transfer to the jacketed bullets in the pot? Do you have the red high pressure regulator or the silver/gray one?

Ooohh,,be careful putting cold scrap into a molten lead as you might get a steam explosion. Better to put the lead in the pot, then the scrap and start the burner. It always takes longer if there is not a good puddle in the bottom of the pot.

[osteodoc08]

It takes a bit. I like to put about 2 inch layer of lead in the bottom of the pot. Get it molten. Then toss in the scraps. All that debris has to get to over 700 degrees. Take a long while with an empty pot.

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Beware the tinsel fairy with this method. I’d recommend let the molten “starter” lead to get solid before dumping in anything on top.

[lightman]

The time required to melt depends on the size of your pot and the BTU output of your burner. A description of your set up or some pictures would allow for more help. Its possible that your burner just does not provide enough heat. With my set up I can melt 350# in 20 minutes or so. The two things that I have melted that took the longest were reclaimed shot and the leaded threads on pole top pins.

I'll second the warning to not add lead to a pot containing molten lead.

[WRideout]

I use a 2 qt cast iron pot on a hot plate. When I smelt range lead, I just fill it up, put the lid on, and go away for an hour; mow the grass or do something else. In an hour to an hour and a half, it will melt. The full-jacket ones I pull out with the floating copper to be smashed and re-heated later. Used motor oil is my flux of choice for this job.

If you have clay pigeon shards in your scrap, those are petroleum based, and would be smoky and stinky. They should act as flux, but might take a while to melt. Are people using them as rifle or pistol targets?

Wayne

[LenH]

The first time I melted range scrap, I over filled the pot. The top layer acted as an insulator and the top layer never melted. I burned an awful lot of propane that day.
I dug the top layer off and found empty jackets under that and finally found the molten lead under the jackets. Lesson learned.

I was using a turkey fryer burner and a Freon tank cut in half. I have a different tank now and only try about 60# at a time. I dump the scrap on a sheet of plywood
and look for the errant live round and have found at least 2 and am still wondering how they made it to the berm and some how they do. While the scrap is spread
out I hunt down the FMJ stuff and cut them open.

[lightman]

I don't do much range scrap and I've even found a live round or two in my stuff. Its a mystery! I'm just guessing, but I expect some shooter tries to fire a round in a dirty chamber and when it fails to fire throws it down range. I see this a lot with AR's and years ago when the Remington 740's and 742's were in their heyday. I also pick up a lot of mis fired and even unfired 22 long rifle ammo.

[Mal Paso]

With Outdoor Range scrap I always started with a cold pot. Even in the summer there seemed to be moisture trapped. You could start with a cold slug of lead in the bottom

I had a 4 inch diameter mesh scoop on a handle, deep fryer tool from a restaurant supply. I would roll the jackets against the side of the pot to get all the lead out scooping out the lightest ones on top as I went.

For those who haven't done this long. Propane exhaust contains a lot of water. Passing cold metal through that exhaust will condense that water onto the metal. Adding wet metal to a molten pot is a Bad Thing.

[fredj338]

I always sort thru my range scrap, unwanted things like rocks & even a live 22lr are not helping things. A buddy of mine brings me range scrap & he washes it clean & pulls out most offending things. As noted, you ideally want some lead ion the bottom of your pot to make full contact with the heat source, speeds things along quite a bit. I can go from cold to ready for ingots in my 2q cast iron pot in about 30m.

[Walter Laich]

At 72 with most of the ailments that come with that age I find I am much happier to buy the lead already smelted into ingots. Doesn't cost a bit more but wear and tear on body is much less.

Now that it's cooler might have to go out and give it a try for old times sake, though

[GregLaROCHE]

What are the bullets passing through and are they going directly into a dirt berm? Are there a lot of rocks in the berm? If there is any kind of steel deflecting them down, they might be getting pulverized and you are just picking up mostly metal jackets. How big is your mesh?

Also when the lead does start to melt, don’t get it too hot or leave too long. You risk burning off any tin that might be in them. Don’t forget to flux, even several times. Dry sawdust works well.

Good luck !

[Grmps]

johntown - welcome to CB. If you decided to start casting to save money, forget it. You won't, you'll just shoot more.

More information and pictures (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?344661-Capturing-amp-Posting-screen-shots "Posting pictures using IMGUR") would be helpfull

osteodoc08 is 100% correct it is much safer to start with a cold pot when adding unknow alloy. The "tinsel fairy" is when you pot of lead "explodes" molten lead all over the place, normally cause by (putting scrap or ingots with water pockets in them, unfired primers, a leve round or ?) into a pot of molten lead.
With range scrap, I find that fluxing with both pine sawdust AND wax of some sort is needed to get all the lead out.

Casting boolits (lead bullets) properly is a science, once you know the basics, not a hard science.
There is a lot of good information on CB. The Google search (top right of every forum page) is a gateway to all the knowledge on this forum. IF you can’t find your answer there ask the question (Please be as detailed as possible, pictures help http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?344661-Capturing-amp-Posting-screen-shots I would be very surprised if there wasn’t someone on this forum that could answer ANY (firearm related) question you might have)
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
1. Boolits need to be cast .0005 to .003 (normally .002) over the slugged diameter of your barrel for accuracy and to avoid leading. If the fit is wrong nothing else will work right.
a. slugging a barrel (it is safer to use a brass rod or a steel rod with a couple of coats of tape to avoid damaging your barrel http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm
b. chamber casting https://www.brownells.com/guntech/cerrosafe/detail.htm?lid=10614
or pound casting http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?356251-Pound-Cast-instructions-(for-rifle-chamber)
2. the right alloy needs to be used for the velocity and purpose of the boolit (don’t fall into the trap of going with too hard an alloy
https://i.imgur.com/FD4XW69.png
Economical way to easily test lead hardness
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?355056-Easier-pencil-lead-hardness-testing
https://i.imgur.com/TrOTWFb.png
Some alloys harden over time
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_3_alloySelectionMetallurgy.ht m
different alloy’s different end hardnesses
https://i.imgur.com/O8uvZ8i.png
https://i.imgur.com/MHPjxfp.png
Lead alloy calculator
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=45784&d=1341560870
3. velocity the bullet needs to be pushed hard/fast enough to get the proper spin, have the proper velocity to accurately reach the target but not so hard as to be dangerous or strip the lead off in the grooves instead of spinning the boolit..
The boolit needs to be the right weight for the riffling/twist rate of your barrel
Powders range from fast to slow, you need to choose the right powder for your barrel length & application.
Loading manuals list the best powders for certain calibers and boolit weights.
NEVER use any posted noncommercial load data without first checking commercial load data to see if falls in the safe parameter for your firearm!! There are several firearms out there that can handle much higher pressures than others!!
Link to free online load data
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?337910-CB-load-data-online-sources

[Four-Sixty]

I like to use a MAPP gas torch to get the process going. Its no fun though when the cut, or crushed bullets squirt molten lead after going liquid.

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Not sure what your composition is, but... jacketed bullets take forever to smelt if you don't have a really good heat source.

[Bird]

Wash the dirt off the scrap first, or it will act as an insulator. Dirt takes a lot of heat to melt.

[Traffer]

Yup my 2 cents is "don't waste your propane heating dirt and rocks. Wash it out first. I go through by hand and pick each piece but I work at a much smaller scale. I even separate the hard cast from jacketed so I can get two different hardnesses when done. I got it to where I can get about 8 BHN by being careful to do only jacketed and 22 lr in one batch. The other batch can be about 11 or 12 BHN.

[sw282]

My range scrap is from an indoor pistol/shotgun range. Smelting/casting is done in an old LEE4-20 pot.. LOTS of junk in the scrap. l start with a cold pot, filling it heaping to the top of the pot. To contain kabooms l put a large can over the top. After the contents have all melted l flux w candle wax and rosin. Then scoop off jackets/debris. When the melt looks clean l than begin casting.. May be slow but l hate melting the lead TWICE.. Boolits come out just fine